Scoop Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 I would like to personally challenge my non-aro ace friends to stop thinking that I, a non-ace aro, am like them and share their interests. I don't understand, they know I'm not ace?? And you'd think bc of their orientations they'd know that aro and ace aren't the same thing and yet?? No, I will write sex in my fiction thank you very much. No, strangely when I was brainstorming what word to put on the back of my jean jacket "ACE" didn't make the list. No, the ace pin you bought me isn't a good gift and no matter how embarrassed you are rn blurting "its close enough" doesn't work in your defence. Like?? I get that they want to share shit and relate to me, we're friends. And I get that despite being able to feel romantic attraction none of them are really all that involved in romance atm so I guess they conflate the two in their minds, but also, why do I have to go through this. Think for a second? Stop including me in your ace shit? Its funny, but you never include anyone else in the group who isn't ace in these ace-centric thoughts. Fuck the look on their faces every time, they catch themselves before I've even said anything and realise the mistake they've made. Yeah, you forgot my identity again. Nice job. This post sounds so bitter and that's bc its a rant lmao, my friends are great otherwise. It is ironic tho that all my queer allo friends are better with my aro identity than my ace friends. 13 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted September 17, 2020 Author Share Posted September 17, 2020 Lol I'm not done! It's always a point of pride? Or celebration, or a goddamn compliment too y'know? They're saying: "We're asexual! That's so fucking cool!" and I have to be like "no, we aren't asexual. I'm aromantic!" Siri, why do my asexual friends believe that aromanticism is a subset of asexuality when my queer allo friends who only interact with aro and ace identities through our friend group understand the distinction and separation? 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisse Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 that sounds extremely tiresome omg 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonmerci Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 Oh my... They seriously said that asexual is close enough to aromantic? To an allo aro? Someone who suffers becuse people confused the two orientations? My, these kind of people make me feel ashamed of being ace... how would they feel if you always forget that they are alloromantic and ypu buy them aromantic items! 2 hours ago, Scoop said: Siri, why do my asexual friends believe that aromanticism is a subset of asexuality when my queer allo friends who only interact with aro and ace identities through our friend group understand the distinction and separation? I don't know, but I think that some asexual have problem to understand that aromanticism is it's own thing and does not belong to their community. Maybe because of the link between the two (though aro don't see to have the same problem to understand that they are different). 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iigolden Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 ah i've been there. asexuality =/= aromanticism. wish people would open their eyes and see those aren't interchangeable labels. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oatpunk Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 I'm not even allosexual but stuff like this is part of the reason why I don't feel comfortable in ace spaces. It's insane how ignorant and self-involved it's possible to be, even when ace people do in many ways face similar misconceptions and erasure as aros. It's so fucking interesting that aces seem incapable of letting go of the concept that aromanticism is just a subset of or another word for asexuality when aros don't have the same issue. Who is misinforming all these baby aces? And why doesn't aven use their platform to try to clear up these misconceptions? It's concerning that you appear to have told your friends off more than once, but they still act like this. I really hope you sit down and have a proper talk to them about it! 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emmafriendly Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 damn how embarrassing of them. this is such a struggle though, even though i'm aro and ace, it is so frustrating when people treat them as the same thing because my aroness and my aceness mean such different things to me. 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Posted September 17, 2020 Share Posted September 17, 2020 That sucks. Even as aro and ace, I see them as completely different things. Sorry that's happening to you. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Queasy_Attention Posted September 18, 2020 Share Posted September 18, 2020 I'm with @nonmerci, turn the tables on them and buy them aromantic shit-- then keep it for yourself when they say "hey but this doesn't apply to me!!! :O" 6 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted September 19, 2020 Author Share Posted September 19, 2020 I wrote a big long paragraph about people confusing asexuality and aromanticism, but ykno what I'm tired of talking about asexuality lol so I'll focus on the lighter part of this discussion: Lmao @Queasy_Attention that's so fucking funny. When they say "why tf did you buy me aro merch??" I'll say "oh umm right hmmm, to remind you of me ??" 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roboticanary Posted September 19, 2020 Share Posted September 19, 2020 @Queasy_Attention what a chill idea, perfect mix of showing someone why aromanticism as a separate identity matters, but also not being unneccesarily cruel. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crawlingcorpse Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 Damn, I don't even know enough aspec people for this to be smth that I could say is a problem for me personally, but I see so many alloaros that say this is a problem within the ace (ESPECIALLY the alloace) community. That's so annoying, sorry you gotta deal with that op. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 I will never understand why so many people seem to put aromantic and asexual in the same box, it makes absolutely no sense. The existence of the term "aspec" which includes both aromantic and asexual identities is confusing. And I say this as an aroace person who cannot perceive them as separate orientations in myself. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MyChemicalQPR Posted October 5, 2020 Share Posted October 5, 2020 As an ace I'm cringing and I'm sorry you have to deal with this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 8:55 AM, Rolo said: I will never understand why so many people seem to put aromantic and asexual in the same box, it makes absolutely no sense. I suspect it's a part of the way in which omantic and sexual are often packaged and conflated. On 10/5/2020 at 8:55 AM, Rolo said: The existence of the term "aspec" which includes both aromantic and asexual identities is confusing. If anything the concept of "aspec" is part of the problem here. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nisse Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 9:55 AM, Rolo said: The existence of the term "aspec" which includes both aromantic and asexual identities is confusing. conflating aroness and aceness is infuriating and just plain wrong, but i think the idea is the sharing an experience of not having an attraction many people deem inherently human. i wish alloaces wouldn't do this thing, because i genuinely believe there's sense in aspec as a community of aros, aces, and all the other folks in-between. the lack of an attraction is what we have in common, like. i gotta say, i don't understand HOW alloaces conflate us?? like... ye KNOW asexual =/= aromantic, that was a whole slogan at some point - not in as many words, but same sentiment. and especially the person OP is talking about, with the insistence even after you've told them? what's the cognitive dissonance here. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rolo Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 7 hours ago, Mark said: If anything the concept of "aspec" is part of the problem here. Yeah I agree. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nonmerci Posted October 6, 2020 Share Posted October 6, 2020 7 hours ago, nisse said: i gotta say, i don't understand HOW alloaces conflate us?? like... ye KNOW asexual =/= aromantic, that was a whole slogan at some point - not in as many words, but same sentiment. I think the problem is : a lot of aces want to point out that asexual doesn't mean aromantic, but they don't necessary realize that aromantic doesn't mean asexual. There is a flawed in that logic and it leads to them not realizing that you can be aromantic but not asexual. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 On 10/5/2020 at 9:55 AM, Rolo said: I will never understand why so many people seem to put aromantic and asexual in the same box, it makes absolutely no sense. The existence of the term "aspec" which includes both aromantic and asexual identities is confusing. And I say this as an aroace person who cannot perceive them as separate orientations in myself. Surely anyone (except who has been secluded from human society and is extremely ill-informed) should recognize that sexual attraction without any romantic feelings does happen. In fact it's not even a rare occurrence. Of course we can't read people's mind but we can infer that from their behavior. Allo-allos run into certain "situations" where sexual attraction isn't solely present but also coupled with romantic attraction. Some do most of the time, some more rarely. For allo-aros it never happens, but they still experience sexual attraction on its own like allo-allos sometimes do. Aro-aces experience neither. By this logic I wouldn't be surprised that someone who first came to know the terms would think that aces are a subset of aros (I don't believe it of course, since alloaces are the obvious counterexample). But how anyone could think the reverse is true, that aros are a subset of aces, is beyond me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop Posted October 7, 2020 Author Share Posted October 7, 2020 This is a great piece of writing that I recommend everyone read: https://asexualagenda.wordpress.com/2020/09/24/the-allo-aro-intersection-matters/. It's very interesting and offers a perspective on the past, present, and future of a-spec relations. There's some history in there too that does offer an answer and back up what some of you have been saying, specifically here: Quote In absence of any ace education efforts, aromantic asexuality has typically been viewed as the default form of asexuality, and you can see this throughout ace history. In Nat Titman’s historical account, one of the best-known asexuals in the 1990s, to whom all other asexuals were compared, was “Toby” (aka Jim Sinclair), who was apparently not interested in romantic relationships. Communities like Asexual Pals explicitly stated that asexuals “lack sexual or romantic attraction to either gender.” The aromantic default was even enshrined in the AVEN triangle, which located asexuals at a single point, based on the assumption that asexuals did not have any directional orientation. Within ace communities, the aromantic default was quickly deconstructed. However, the aromantic default was (and is) still widely extant throughout society, which means having to deal with it in public education, and in newbies to the ace community, over and over and over again, for literally decades. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted October 7, 2020 Share Posted October 7, 2020 (edited) On 10/6/2020 at 2:28 PM, nisse said: conflating aroness and aceness is infuriating and just plain wrong, but i think the idea is the sharing an experience of not having an attraction many people deem inherently human. i wish alloaces wouldn't do this thing, because i genuinely believe there's sense in aspec as a community of aros, aces, and all the other folks in-between. the lack of an attraction is what we have in common, like. Whilst such commonalities exist overstating them can lead to False Equivalence. Both allo aces and allo aros might both be seen as "immature" there is a large difference between "innocent" and "predatory. A way this may show up in "aspec" spaces is the idea of needing to "protect" aces from unwanted sexual content whilst aros are expected to just put up with romantic content. 19 hours ago, nonmerci said: I think the problem is : a lot of aces want to point out that asexual doesn't mean aromantic, but they don't necessary realize that aromantic doesn't mean asexual. There is a flawed in that logic and it leads to them not realizing that you can be aromantic but not asexual. Whilst promoting that asexual does not imply aromantic is a major part of AVEN there isn't really anywhere doing the same with aromantic does not imply asexual. Edited October 7, 2020 by Mark 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted November 27, 2020 Share Posted November 27, 2020 On 10/6/2020 at 7:28 AM, nisse said: conflating aroness and aceness is infuriating and just plain wrong, but i think the idea is the sharing an experience of not having an attraction many people deem inherently human. i wish alloaces wouldn't do this thing, because i genuinely believe there's sense in aspec as a community of aros, aces, and all the other folks in-between. the lack of an attraction is what we have in common, like. Plus, I feel like the concept of aspec is valuable for aroaces. It's important to acknowledge the split-orientation folks too, but aroaces shouldn't have to feel forced to divide themselves between two separate communities for something that is often a unified experience in the same way that gay, lesbian, straight, etc are for people with non-split orientations. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neon Posted November 29, 2020 Share Posted November 29, 2020 On 11/26/2020 at 6:17 PM, Ettina said: Plus, I feel like the concept of aspec is valuable for aroaces. It's important to acknowledge the split-orientation folks too, but aroaces shouldn't have to feel forced to divide themselves between two separate communities for something that is often a unified experience in the same way that gay, lesbian, straight, etc are for people with non-split orientations. I agree. Personally, the two feel fairly distinct to me, but they intersect in some ways. And other people will see aroace differently for themselves, because of different experiences, opinions, etc. regarding romance and sex. It seems to me like the problem stems from 2 misconceptions. First, that aro means aroace, and second, that aroace is an ace microlabel. Now, for some people, either or both may be true. But that isn't universal, and it is wrong to treat it as such. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El011 Posted December 1, 2020 Share Posted December 1, 2020 Sometimes I just don't really get why the ace and aro communities are so aligned tbh 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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