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  1. 5 points
    Well, no, he's not your zucchini, not any more than two people both saying they have crushes on each other would automatically be partners. It's not a description of feelings- It's a description of consensual relationship arrangement. So, unless one of you said "Hey, do you want to be in a QPR?" and the other one said "Sure!", then he's not your zucchini, even if you both have squishes on each other. Secondly, I think the important thing here is to think about how you're defining the term "squish", and how he's defining it. For example, you say you think he's "just feeling friend love"- But to me, and many other people I'm sure, that's what a squish is. And how can you know he doesn't feel similarly about you to the way you feel about him? I think, really, what you should do is forget about terminology. If you're defining a squish as one thing, and he's defining it as another, then debating it isn't going to get you anywhere; What's important isn't the language, it's the feelings. Talk to him. Figure out what he's feeling, and what you're feeling- Regardless of what terms you use to describe these feelings. Figure out what you both want from your relationship. Do you want something different from what you have now? Why or why not? What does he want? These are the things you need to talk about, not whether or not you have squishes, because it sounds like at this point that's not the question you need to be asking each other.
  2. 4 points
    Doing a report on aromanticism for a school, and I need responses for a survey here! It shouldn't take too long to complete, it has sections on demographics, community interaction and arophobia (that section isnt compulsory if you're not comfortable answering those questions). Thank you!
  3. 4 points
    Hi, I'm Iini! i'm 22, and enjoy reading, cooking/baking, and dogs. For me, the main identity I identify with is aro, mainly because the label was so relieving when I finally accepted it. Sexuality wise I'm still quite lost, there's a lot of gorgeous people of all genders, but it isn't such a huge deal for me, and I don't really feel the need to pick a label for that. When I was a kid, and still when I was a teen, I used to pick either a family friend or some other guy I knew, so that when my friends would ask me who I had a crush on, i could at least say a name. I've never actually had a crush on someone, but I have had what you might describe as squishes, and tried to convince myself that it was a crush. I found out what being aro meant when I was in high school, because I had a friend who was very into LGBTQ+ stuff, but also very anti aro and ace people. Wasn't fun. Anyway, when I moved out to go to uni, I one night gathered all my courage, googled aromantic, and had a panic attack because I felt something click, and decided that maybe I was a grey-aro, and that even if I had never felt romantic attraction, and didn't want a relationship, maybe at some point I would fall in love, and that at 18 I was too young to make any decisions anyway. Fast forward almost 5 years, i now identify as aro, without the grey prefix, and have come a long way in acceptance. I think that covers it, I'm excited to talk to you guys!😊
  4. 4 points
    A friend just let me know that Alice Oseman (apparently quite an up-and-coming YA author?) is writing a new book, "Loveless", that sure looks to be a very explicit aromantic asexual coming of age and coming out story: The novel won't actually be released until next month, but I'd expect some reviews to potentially start trickling in before then. Has anyone here happened to have read any of Oseman's other works?
  5. 4 points
    Who says a lifelong partner has to be romantic?
  6. 4 points
    I think a lot of the debating that went on in here about those who feel like "aspec" shouldn't even be a thing... reminds me a lot about the issues we deal with in the trans community. It is SUCH an overwhelming issue when nonbinary people are gatekept from the trans community due to pretentious opinions like "you need this, this this and this in order to be trans" "you're either male or you're female, pick one" or even "sure nonbinary people are real but being trans is totally different." Despite me being new to the aro community, the stuff I've seen so far isn't nearly as bad as how we deal with this in the trans community. Trans people are extremely hypervisible now to the point where if a conservative trans person makes a youtube channel, the majority of transphobes will watch them just to validate their own transphobia. The reason why a lot of trans people are so aggressive like this is due to their own internalized transphobia. This, and they want to be accepted by cis people so much that they will do anything to be seen as valid. They struggle with being trans so much, that they view people who are nonbinary or don't transition as like a major threat to them and even to their own transition. They experience so much pain being trans, that anyone who identifies as such but are different than them don't TRULY understand how they feel. It's a reason why terms like "truscum" or "trutrans" exist, it's because they believe that only they can be the real, true, trans person. But we argue that nonbinary people have always been a part of the trans community. It's not an ahistorical concept, the white stripe is even used in the trans flag in order to include us. Sure one of it's meanings can represent transition, but it could also represent people who lack gender or blur the lines between gender. Which brings me to my next point, look at our own aromantic flag. Even if some of you think there's no such thing as greyromanticism or it should be separate from being aromantic, then why is the grey stripe included on the flag? The flag that's used on this very site? Not to mention the people who run this forum specifically made it so that people who are grey or on the spectrum can feel included too and be able to explore themselves without any fear of judgement. If you believe that gender can be this giant colorful spectrum, and that trans and nonbinary can both be overlapping umbrellas, then why can't it be like that for the aspectrum?
  7. 3 points
    I think it's definitely ok. I'd also suggest it's possible *gasp* to... combine labels. *GASP* Basically, you could call yoself aromantic, and grey-bisexual. (Grey-bi kinda has a ring to it.) Please do whatever makes you comfortable and happy, and have a great day!
  8. 3 points
    Hey! Very recently really started looking into terminology and such for what I feel, and cupioromantic is the first thing I found that fits. I want someone to be my partner and to grow old with. I want someone to cuddle with at night and raise a family with. I’m a virgin, but like the idea of creating and carrying my own child. I’m 22 and have, up to now, always assumed I was heteroromantic and heterosexual. Guys can be really cute and I want cuddles! Big arms to hold me at night and a smooth chest to put my head on and a soothing heartbeat to lull me to sleep. All of this seemed to line up with societies ideas of romance. Here’s the thing. I’ve never been in a romantic relationship. They make me nervous, like I’ve got an anvil hanging over my head just waiting to crush me. They’re suffocating. My longest relationship to date was when I was thirteen. My friend and I figured out that our parents would drive us to the movies for dates, when they wouldn’t just because we wanted to see a movie. They encouraged going over to each other’s houses and took us on cool trips, like glass blowing and carnivals. We wouldn’t have been able to go to these things if they weren’t ‘dates’ because we were too young to drive. It was perfect. Then, he kissed me. I panicked. I raced inside the house and did my absolute best to never see him again. I justified it to myself that it wasn’t supposed to be weird, and that he made it weird! I regret losing that friendship, but I can’t regret breaking the relationship off. Over the years, I’ve gone on a couple dates but have always cut it off as soon as it got to shouldering or kissing. Shouldering being arms over the shoulders in that weird yawning movie way that automatically takes soothing physical contact and makes it weird. For the past few years, I haven’t dated at all. The day I started looking up terminology, I spent two hours explaining to a roommate that I don’t love him. He’s a great friend and a great roommate, but I don’t love him. He poured his heart out, saying he could see us happy together and that he wanted me by his side. Talked about marriage. (We have never been anything more than roommates and friends. Never held hands, never cuddled, nothing.) The thing is, he also talked about how much he loved me. He talked about how he wanted me to give him a chance and that he would rather try to convince me and fail than never try. How I was missing out on a great guy and how he’d always treat me right. He saw not dating him as not giving him a chance to earn my love, but didn’t listen when I told him I couldn’t return his feelings and didn’t want to try dating him. I felt like such an asshole. He was pouring his heart out and I was having to watch it crack as I repeatedly told him no. He’s an honorable man, so I don’t feel pressured or anything, but I do feel guilty. I broke his heart and I don’t regret it. He kept going on about how, if I just gave him a chance, I would love him back. He was my realization moment. I kept thinking, I can’t be in love with him back. I don’t feel that. What was he talking about? It’s not a choice to love him or not. I care about him, but I’m not in love with him. I won’t ever be in love with him. Even if I ended up loving him, I wouldn’t be in love with him. (That thought, right there, was the important realization.) I’ve never been in love. I love my family. I love my friends. I love rivers and trees and birds that have no respect for sleep. I love my cat and all the pets I’ve ever had. I even love the children I have not yet had. I want at least two, and I love them fiercely. I have never been in love. I don’t want to be in love. It seems messy and over complicated, to be honest. This, however, leaves me at a crossroads. Sex is a non issue. I honestly have no feeling about it, other than wanting babies someday. I’d be fine with sex or without. The issue, is a partner. I want a life partner. How do I date, though? How do you explain that you are looking for a lifelong cuddle buddy to raise kids with and grow old together? That kissing is germ central, holding hands is sweaty, and shouldering is suffocating? I’m 22 years old and I don’t date. I like the term cupioromantic because I long for a lifelong partner. (Haven’t bothered even looking for the correct sexual label, because I don’t see why sex matters.) However, cupioromantic doesn’t fit as well as I’d like. I want a partner, but I don’t want a romantic partner. I want cuddles, not kisses. I don’t want flowers and dates, I want someone to dry the clean dishes as I wash them and share inside jokes with. Domestic fluff, but not romance. Does that make sense? Where do I go from here?
  9. 3 points
    It's probably easier to pronounce if the L comes first: Ellgeebeetee, better than Geebee-elltee for example, right? Lebanese? Lesbian derives from the Greek island Lesbos where the poet Sappho came from, whose poetry is regarded to be about erotic feelings towards women.
  10. 3 points
    Hi all! I'm Queasy 🌈 I'm a bi aroallo! I'm 23, and I like peach vodka, baking, and sordid fanfic. She/her/they/whatevs I'll try to squish my identity journey down to a couple paragraphs-- I've known I was bi since I was about 15. When I was maybe 18 or so, I realized I liked writing characters who were aro, though I didn't know that "aromantic" was a word. The concept of someone being really averse to traditional romance while still maintaining close friends and being sexually active without guilt really struck something in me, but I wasn't yet in a place to investigate that part of myself. I went through two big relationships, one when I was 20, one when I was 21/22. Both ended pretty badly. I found a good therapist, figured out my mental health stuff (that's putting it pretty simply lol) and now here I am, one year later! I re-investigated myself, found r/aromantic on reddit, and two months later found a new identity. I experience really strong platonic attraction (for various childhood-memory reasons), and when it's put together with physical attraction, it feels very intense! I get "crushes" on people often: sometimes it's just platonic, sometimes it's just physical, and sometimes it's both! It was really freeing to be able to identify what that feeling actually was, and also identify the lack of any actual romantic attraction or interest in a romantic relationship. I don't know if I'd want a lifelong QPR, but I do fantasize about having a really good friend who'd be ~open~ to things with no strings or expectations. I swing back and forth with liking romance in my media. On one hand, I get super into cheesy romance novels, both good and bad. Pride & Prejudice stands on the same shelf as Kidnapped by the Pirate, and both give me equal joy. I devour fanfiction, both sap and trash. On the other hand, sometimes TV/movie/book relationships rub me completely the wrong way. Still not sure why I vibe with some but not others, but that'll just be another part of my journey! (The most important part, obviously.) Anyway hi all! Talk to me about movie soundtracks, good baking recipes, your favorite/least favorite literary trope, or your favorite dating sim! (Don't judge, I like 'em.)
  11. 3 points
    You describe why I felt upset with the comment of @Coyote. Immediately speaking of the possibility of an allo allo person using the term as an argument for not having them in the a-spec community, gives me the feeling that aplatonic struggles don't matter in themselves, or that they matter p ly if you are aro or ace. Which is why I said I read the commet as "these people don't have real problems". Now, I get that's not what @Coyote meant. So, to answer the original question ("what does an allo allo person who doesn't love their friends has to do with me?"), I would say that : the problem face are similar. People are supposed to need each other company. For instance, in the aro community, loving our friends is seen as something that humanizes us, because "we don't love romantically, but platonically". And to take the same example as @John Rando did, if you tell someone "I didn't miss my friends during the confinment", you will be seen as weird because you are suppose to love them and so miss them. Also, as @DeltaV said, aplatonic people are often invalidated as being "sociopath", or they are laugh at... which is a similar problem (aromantic is still synonymous with psychopath for some people, both aro and ace people are outside of the society noms when it comes to relationship...). Aplatonicism could be regarded as a mental problem or, a scare for intimacy, commitment... like aromanticism and asexuality. And that's why for me I wouldn't mind an allo allo aplatonic being included. Because this person won't be there because "I don't like my friends", but because "I don't like my friends and because of that I share similar problems with you". Because if not, I don't think an allo allo people would feel the need to identify with the label in the first place. (I hope I am clear)
  12. 3 points
    Except at least 2 other people chimed in to say that they also had problems with how the statement was worded. If it was just the one then yeah, maybe it was a tone misread on their part, but when multiple people are like 'hey I have an issue with this', that might mean that, at the very least, the statement was poorly thought out. Instead of thinking 'hey, actual people who identify as this label I'm talking about were offended, maybe I should apologise and think things through more next time', @Coyote has been dismissive of @Magni, and ignored my comments. Not exactly something that makes me want to assume good faith. Whatever Coyote's personal beef with Magni, ze is an aplatonic person who took issue with the comment. That was never really addressed. I am someone who doesn't love my friends. I, as one of these people, think the post was worded in a way that says that's a bad thing. The way I read that post basically amounted to 'why should those people count? They've got nothing to do with me, so why should we include them?'. I've already explained why that bothers me, so I won't go over that again. I'm just wondering why people are so focused on defending what Coyote said, and ignoring that people were hurt by Coyote's statement. I'm newer here. I don't always keep up on topics. I don't have that much history with people, and I don't know Coyote very well. I have no reason to assume that Coyote's post was made with positive intent. Coyote's reaction to Magni really doesn't scream positive intent either. I commented on how the post read to me, and I was apparently not alone in my interpretation. I don't think it's too much to ask for an apology, instead of devolving the conversation into a debate about why we shouldn't be hurt. This literally could have been solved in a single post saying 'oh I'm sorry, I didn't realise it could be taken that way. I'll reconsider how to word it next time'. Instead it turned into a debate, and derailed this topic even more.
  13. 3 points
    That's actually kinda why it rubbed me the wrong way. Saying 'I don't see what that necessarily has to do with me' when talking about 1) including a label in general and 2) including a certain combination of identities (in this case alloallo aplatonic) reminds me of both my experiences with exclusionists denying my queer identity because it stems from being aromantic, and conversations I've had where aces have refused to acknowledge my aro identity separate of (and having nothing to do with) asexuality. The example used felt a little more like saying 'well these people have nothing to do with me, so all aplatonic people can be excluded'. I can't speak as to the intent behind the comment, just talk about how it comes across, which, at best, seems thoughtless.
  14. 3 points
    It's not about "you shouldn't phrase it like that bc exclusionists will say it's weird", it's "I feel hurt by what you are saying because it is similar to hurtful things exclusionists have said". I feel like only one part of the problem is being recognized; it's not just the definition used, it's that combined with the context/example. The vast majority of people who use aplatonic are arospec or acespec in some way, maybe there's some neurodivergent alloromantic allosexual people who may use it but otherwise I'd be wary of an alloromantic allosexual person using aplatonic and defining it as "I don't love my friends", and even more wary of it being used as a random example by someone else for why aplatonic wouldn't be included in a community. It's not just the definition, it's the statement as a whole that comes across like exclusionist rhetoric which I find hurtful. *** This....didn't need to turn into a debate? You could've just acknowledged that what you said came across as hurtful/you would try to do better in the future, and moved on? Instead of debating me that it isn't hurtful when I'm telling you it is.
  15. 3 points
    I'm sort of approaching this sideways from the rest of the thread, but I guess...I tend to see conversations about who is part of a "community" in the abstract a bit useless, because like, what does being in or out of a community even mean? I personally find it a bit more grounded to talk about how things play out in terms of things like spaces and resources - for example, things like the a-spec pillowfort group that coyote mentioned, which in theory includes agender people, but in practice is not really used by any agender people, whether it's because they find it uncomfortable or because they just find it unrelatable. Like, what's the point of quibbling about which specific a-terms are "included" unless there are actual spaces using the name to make practical attempts to actually include (or not include) these various sub-groups? Like, I think everyone in this board is mostly familiar with the tension that arises in any group that tries to provide support for just aces and aros, in terms of balancing conflicting needs and disproportionate resources and such. And many groups have decided to just stick to being just ace or just aro groups, because they know that allows them to better focus on their constituents or because they know they aren't prepared enough to meet the needs of both populations at once. I could easily imagine this being a similar problem with trying to extend services to agender or aplatonic people - just adding them to a name is just as much of a useless bandaid as an ace group changing their name to "aces and aros" without any underlying structural or topic changes. So I don't think it should be that controversial for some "a-spec" groups who picked up that name as part of an attempt to service ace and aro people specifically might want to continue to focus on that mandate and not feel able to extend those services to other groups outside their original scope and areas of expertise. (Although, going back to my personal opinions, I do think that's also a reason to consider more specific community naming choices instead of the confusingly unclear "a-spec"). --- Also, to provide a suggestion from completely another angle - as an example of finding commonality in "a-" identities and shared experiences of "absence" as a defining trait, there's been some interesting work with asexual and atheist communities, like panels with ace atheists about the shared experiences of asexuality (and sometimes aromanticism) and atheism and being defined by a "lack" of something more mainstream, whether it's interest in sex or interest in god(s). Yet, at the same time as we recognize that overlap, I think we also recognize that the needs of atheists and the needs of asexual people were often best met in separate community spaces most of the time.
  16. 3 points
    Hey - We are officially ready to announce our Pride Chats! They'll be every weekend in June, starting this weekend, via Discord. To register, please go to this page: https://taaap.org/pride/ Our schedule is as follows: Saturday, June 6 - Pride Sunday, June 7 - Media representation Saturday, June 13 - Aro and ace identities Sunday, June 14 - Sex and relationships (of all kinds) Saturday, June 20 - Intersections with other identities Sunday, June 21 - Gender Saturday, June 27 - Issues that aro and ace people face Sunday, June 28 - Activism and community building The webpage has more details about all of these chats, but if you have more questions, feel free to respond to this thread. Thanks so much, and I hope to see you all soon!
  17. 3 points
    YMBAI all these posts saying “imagine that your crush visits your profile everyday and wishes you were close to them” sound kind of creepy to you
  18. 3 points
    I'm demiromantic and currently a bit...irritated with this whole statement. Every demiromantic person is different and your roommate does not speak for everyone who identifies as demi-. I identify with aromanticism because I experience things like aromantic people do. I did not experience crushes and was mocked for it from the time I was in middle school all the way through my senior year in high school. I was mocked for stating that I might not want to get married. I was literally isolated from my friend group and sent home crying because of my aromanticism. Connecting to people on a lot of romantic ideas is a weird concept to me. The way I approach relationships is different, and aromantic communities have helped me with that. Figuring out I was demiromantic was a hard thing, because I identified with aromanticism for so long before I ever experienced romantic attraction. In short: And it's really not your business to go telling certain aros they're not really aro. It's called the "m-spec" or "multi-spec". It's not a scale, and it encompasses all identities (bi, pan, polysexual/romantic, etc.) that feel attraction to more than one gender.
  19. 2 points
    Good luck on your school project! I hope you can get many interesting responses. It's always nice to see people looking at aromanticism in their academic pursuits. I admit I got stuck at the question that asked me to choose from aroace, aroallo, and non-SAM aro. I personally don't identify strongly with any of those. I explained more in the feedback section as well, but in case anyone else got stuck too, I want them to know you know about it.
  20. 2 points
    Heyo! I'm a 22 year old greyro ace who stole my name off a very angry package of oat milk. I've been stalking around the aros on tumblr for a while but never took the step to make an account here until now. I'm not sure why, because I've always considered my arospec identity to be a much larger part of who I am than my asexuality. It feels like my lack of romantic attraction and my lack of wanting a relationship is a lot more difficult for people to accept and understand than other parts of me. Like people have been taught that you always need to respect someone's sexual boundaries, but if you don't want to hold someone's hand?????? You're really stretching people's capacity of dealing with your weirdness. I've been carrying all my thoughts about this alone for far too long so now I'm going to let them loose on the forums! I'm not really a forum person, the only other one I've been on is AVEN, and I am so sick of it. There are too many people on there that are just straight-up vile, and that's not even counting in all the amatonormativity, gatekeeping and other shit that goes on. I saw that there were plans to join with them to keep this site running but that it got voted down because other members have also had bad experiences with them, so I hope I will feel more at home here! It's so isolating to not know anyone who understands how I feel, even if I have good friends who like me for who I am. Anyway, I'm excited to get to know you all!
  21. 2 points
    My name is Amber; I'm 29 and my 30th birthday is fast approaching! I'm a pansexual aromantic cis woman. To be honest, I am pretty iffy about the pansexual part. It appears I'm in a time of flux which I have accepted as a part of my queer experience. 💚 However, my romantic orientation has been aro for nearly as long as I can remember. I used to seek a romantic relationship because I had been led to believe that I NEEDED one and I was not feeling at all fulfilled by my friendships. I also enjoyed, and still enjoy though to a lesser extent, the grandiose idealized depictions of romance in fiction. After finding excellent buds, my desire for a romantic relationship disappeared as it was something I never really wanted in the first place. What an amazing realization! I simply wanted to be loved, to love and to be understood. I am interested in community-based intimacy, not partner-based intimacy. I seriously tried dating on three occasions! I was so unhappy every single time even though I loved those folks. I love[d] them a great deal but I was never "in love" with them. I didn't understand why it saddened me so much or what was 'wrong' with me. It never felt right. I was so relieved when the term aromantic was introduced to me. It's good to see I'm not alone and to be able to explain that I'm not broken for loving differently. I am so glad this forum exists!!! I love cooking, baking, doodling and writing sometimes, anything *cute*, fashion as self-expression, gender nonconformity, makeup, detailed chats about LGBTQPIA+ stuff and lots of other things too of course.
  22. 2 points
    I used to have this feeling too. I think a lot of the 'missing out' comes from seeing the best parts of other people's relationships without seeing the boring or bad bits. So the internal desire for a relationship isn't even a really realistic one. luckily (I guess?) my messy internalised toxicity and amatonormativity had certain windows of importance in it's own messed up framework, so once I missed the 'teen romance' stage it was fairly easy to drop the whole idea of a romantic relationship and not be worried. That is just what I went through, so depending on what has influenced you you will probably have a very different experience. That probably wasn't that helpful (sorry). Basically I actively choose to identify and blame pervasive amatonormativity for many things that I see as failings or brokenness within myself. For example I read someone's experience of discovering agender because they thought romantic love was part and parcel of being a 'woman' (forgive me, I can't find the article), while I still identify as a woman because I feel that romantic love is a amatonormative filter put onto femaleness.
  23. 2 points
    Gray-aro can refer to a variety of experiences, including crushes without desire to "follow up" on them, but also including : experiencing (romantic) attraction rarely, experiencing attraction ambiguously/uncertainly, experiencing attraction at a low intensity, experiencing an attraction that is very fleeting/short lived....It can describe a lot of things. The fact that you are wondering if you've ever had a crush kind of indicates that you may be on the aro-spectrum, as romantic attraction tends to be described as a gut feeling that is very obvious. It also sounds like you've spent very little time thinking about or pursuing romance in general, and for someone in their 30s, that tends to be considered non-normative. At the end of the day the choice is up to you. You could identify as aro-spec or gray-ro, which can act as ambiguous catch-all terms. You could identify as aro. You could identify as questioning. Lurking around sites like this will give you more of an idea of what the aromantic experience is like and may help you decide.
  24. 2 points
    I wish I could tell you that the feelings you are feeling will pass eventually, but that would be a lie. I feel you, I am not where you are, but I know all to well that dark corner of your mind who whispers that you will never be happy, that you will die alone and ugly and smelly and lots of other things. My words to you are: Even though you righteously feel like you do, do not give up hope. It is ok to not find what you are looking for. But that does not mean all hope is lost. Yes, maybe you will never find that person...but that does not mean that you will pass every second of your remaining life miserable. In your journey you will make friends that won't be romantically involved with you, but you may find those who are. I am aro and pansexual, so maybe this doesn't make a lot of sense to you, but what I do is to say "I have a very open mind" to all my friends. And I do, I really do, but that sentence lets them know that I am not an average person, and that maybe I want something more than friendship. It is not written in stone, 95% time that sentence means that we speak of weird things (ex. how the opposite of a centaur would live; can we mix genetics to adapt humans to extreme climate thus making the liveable planet zone more ample?/etc) but that other 5% means that if we both want to, cuddles may happen/sex/maybe a bit of kissing/ or any other activity that we all want to do. Maybe it won't work with you, but maybe it helps you. I hope it helps you, really, cuz what I say to myself to get out of the dark zone of my mind is that it helps neither my brain nor me to think negative all the rest of my life, let myself think the "impossible" and try to do viceras, hearts ^^ (in spanish is: trata de hacer tripas, corazon). Cheers mate
  25. 2 points
    Ok, the difficulties start with the basic statistic: the birth rate, which you cite. It is the easiest measure to define and calculate. The number of live births per thousand of population per year. It has a long lag. If in the recent past women didn't have a lot of children, it will still be low regardless if the birth rate in younger women has increased. There are fewer women in childbearing age that even can be mothers, yet, to put a not too fine point on it, all those middle aged and old people are still around. So if a country has a low birth rate and you look at explanations in the present, that will be misleading. As you say, regarding Japan we think of "Marriage to Hatsune Miku", but seriously – for the actual reasons you must also include at least the 90s. A woman which was 45 in 2000 is 65 now and likely still alive. So what did she do in 1975 - 2000? The same is roughly true for men. There's theoretically a lot of more leeway here, but in practice when people marry their ages are not thaaat far apart. And in the 80s or 90s there wasn't a Hatsune Miku. I'm not knowledgeable enough regarding Japan to do more than speculation. So are the stories about "salarymen" exaggerated? Like the insane shifts, sometimes with up to 40 hours overtime a week? If they're more or less true, I wonder how they even manage to date at all. it would be interesting to know more about the blue-collar workers in Japan, if it's different for them. One would assume, because for physical labor the negative effects of such overwork are much more serious. What's about the birth rate dependent on socioeconomic group?
  26. 2 points
    After years of experience I can now ride the bi-cycle ("I'm definitely bi", "wait no maybe I'm totally gay", "wait no actually am I just straight and pretending?", "shit no definitely still bi", etc etc) with ease. But I think I need training wheels for the aro equivalent, jeez. I'm falling off and scraping my knees over here. Being an aroallo with a nice side of mental illness makes for a rough learning curve... I keep questioning my feelings and wondering if I'm just convincing myself I'm aro because I think it sounds cool or I want another identity-- because I do experience a lot of emotions and impulses that could easily be mistaken for romantic attraction. The good news is that if I take the time to meditate on it and figure out how I feel and what I really want, I come up with the same answers: I feel very strong physical and platonic attraction for people, and those both manifest in certain ways because of my past experiences and relationships-- and no, I don't want a romantic relationship. The bad news is that I have to meditate on it every time it comes up (at least for now-- it's only been about three months since I seriously investigated the possibility I was aromantic.) I want to trust myself, I want to be able to just trust that whatever I feel is some combination of emotions and attractions that have nothing to do with romantic intent, but I'm not yet in the place to do that. I still have to investigate and analyze all my feelings to stop from second guessing myself and worrying that I'm lying to myself, etc etc etc. I guess this is kind of just a vent, but I'm curious to hear stories from people who have been confident with their identities for a long time, particularly people my age (23) or older. What's it like to know you're aro and have that as a consistent through-line in your life? Did you go through long periods of doubt? Do you still doubt yourself? How do you work through that?
  27. 2 points
    I totally get that. Like, intimate platonic relationships are definitely a thing. Lifelong roommates is also a thing. But how do you get to that point? How do you meet people IRL who actually want the same thing you do? If there is a Tinder for platonic relationships, I’ve never heard of it.
  28. 2 points
    I'm only 18 and have been using the term aro for a year now but I related to your struggle of deciding whether you're really aro or if you mind is convincing you of stuff. Though my struggle was on a smaller scale of "Do I feel comfortable using the term aro or do I feel fake?". I also strongly related to the way you're dealing with it, specifically the terms you're using. Like analyzing and investigating. I work through my own thoughts in a similar fashion and haven't met many who do too. My aro-cycle was easier though because I removed all need to seem socially "cool" ages ago. So, like I said, it was more of a "Do we have enough evidence to comfortably call ourselves this?".
  29. 2 points
    I'm not sure which direction you mean that, but in light of this I'll add -- it's also appropriate to use the cameronwhimsy aro community flag. In the design creator's post about it (continued from here), the first two stripes are explained as representing, quote, "the aro-spectrum (and aromanticism itself represented by green because green belongs to us now hell yeah). this covers every identity under the aro umbrella - demi, grey, lith/akoi, wtf/quoiro, cupio etc. EVERYTHING. even ones that don’t have names yet." End quote. In fact, this is why some anti-grey folks have sometimes objected to this design -- because it is intended to encompass greyromantics.
  30. 2 points
    To play devil's satan*, first you don't need platonic attraction to have friends. Second, It would makes total sense to me to say "more than friends" when you mean "the relationship I have with them is based on romantic attraction in addition to the platonic one" (not all romantic relationship are like that). But most people would understand it as "this relationship counts more in the absolute relationship hierarchy because ... amatonormativity !", and that doesn't make any iherent sense, regardless of your orientation. And third, serendipity and the gray area of the aro spectrum make that some aplatonics having a romantic orientation are already inside the aro community and the civil war has not happened yet. * satan = prosecutor Why though ? If I don't have obsessive thoughts and fantasies and a desire to maintain a relationship (aka limerence) for my parents am I a sociopath ? Because freudian pseudopsychologist could argue the exact opposite (and still agree with you at the same time^^). You don't need to emotionally love your parents to be part of a healthy and mutually enjoyable parent/children relationship. And you can hate totally your parents or be indifferent to them and still be a healthy person (a lot of parents are ******).
  31. 2 points
    Also as perhaps a point of clarification, I don't think @Coyote, by asking why aplatonic should be included in aspec, means to imply that there isn't a reason why aplatonic could be grouped with ace and aro, but rather that aplatonic should only be included in that grouping if it makes sense and there's a reason for it, so Coy is asking about what that reason is in a legitimate sense. Coy you can correct me if I'm wrong here. For example, ace and aro inclusion in the broader queer and LGBTQ+ community makes sense because that's already a broad coalition of groups that defy cishetero norms. Ace and aro folks already defy those norms as well, and it makes sense for our communities to support other LGBTQ+ communities and vice versa. We're stronger together and all that. To play devil's advocate (and I legitimately mean that - I think you could probably argue against this pretty easily), an alloromantic aplatonic person might love their romantic partners, but not love their friends (note: this is a specific example, not a broad generalization). For them, the idea of being "more than friends" might make some inherent sense to them, and so they're not exactly defying amatonormativity there. In fact, they may actively be confused by aro frustrations with things like that phrase, because they can't relate, and aros might be frustrated with them because they feel like they're upholding a system they find harmful. In this case, it might not make sense to group these two groups together.
  32. 2 points
    I have some ace allorom pals who are sex-repulsed while I am an allosexual aro romance-repulsed person. When we deal with folks who are both alloromantic AND allosexual, we often interact and feel things are going well! My chums and I have bonded over a turning point we almost always reach with double allos. They withdraw, becoming less kind overall, or they completely avoid us for not offering sex or romance when they need or want both. I guess it's a form of rejection...? :C We understand we all need different things in relationships but the sting of this very specific sort of rejection is still very real. People who aren't somewhere on this spectrum aren't kind to us for speaking up about it.
  33. 2 points
    my best friend is all i'll ever need. (i want sexual partners, but that's different--i mean for closeness/love.) i want to live with her at some point, but i'm honestly fine with the idea of her finding a romantic partner/husband and living with him for life. i want to be all over the world anyway, not in the same place for long. and besides her, i'd prefer to live alone (i have a roommate due to circumstance, until next april.) i've entertained ideas of asking my best friend for a qpr or some kind of like, unofficial friend-wedding, but i don't think anything would actually change; i don't want it to (except to see her more often). as for my friends other than her, i'm happy to have them, of course, and i'll be happy to make new ones. i feel like what i want i either already have or it's within reach.
  34. 2 points
    huh? If ace and aro were opposites, then "aro ace" would be an oxymoron. So as long as we're talking about this: I don't use emotional attraction as a concept, personally. As a quoiromantic I don't care for the romantic/nonromantic division in the first place, and I don't personally apply the concept of "attraction" to nonphysical things. So I wouldn't say I "experience platonic attraction," either, because that's not how I talk and it's not a model I use. I greatly hope that nobody is implicitly thinking of me as an "alloplatonic" here.
  35. 2 points
    ....I wasn't assuming negative intent or looking to interpret it negatively because it was coyote? Rather, I'd assumed good intent that happened to be poorly worded in a way that unintentionally came across as harmful. If anything, the fact is was coyote made me less inclined to say anything because I generally try to avoid direct interaction since it never seems to go well. However, I as an aplatonic person felt a need to say something because I was uncomfortable with what was said, I'd have addressed it regardless of who said it, it's just that most people wouldn't have responded with such passive aggressive hostility, which if anything did indicate bad intent. *** (idk if I missed anywhere else that people tagged me expecting answers to stuff but this is like general answer to all questions directed at me that are still left "open") I don't think it's a good idea for me to continue debating this topic further? but I feel the need to acknowledge things in some way so my brain will stop dwelling on it/stop feeling obligated to reply. I was upset with initial comment regarding aplatonicism as an aplatonic person (which, I realize in hindsight I hadn't specifically mentioned me being aplatonic in that initial comment but I do know I'd mentioned it on a previous thread y'all were involved in where the definition of aplatonic was discussed). Sometimes it is difficult to pinpoint exactly why something bothers me beyond just that it does but I do generally try to attempt an explanation, though apparently my explanations aren't very clear. The responses I received just made me feel dismissed and made me defensive such that I end up trying to defensively overexplain myself, which if anything probably makes my explanations less clear, so then people find more problems with what I say to pick apart to debate me making me defensively explain even more, etc, it cycles like that and goes nowhere productive. Yeah, this still hasn't been addressed, it seems like people would rather pick apart everything I say and debate other things rather than actually acknowledge that hey multiple people including those who identify with aplatonic have an issue with what was said so maybe there's an issue here. ( @VoidArcana seems to word the points I'm trying to make better than I can/I generally agree with aer.) I'm not gonna further participate in this debate bc it seems pointless for me to do so and having to justify why I feel upset by something while having my emotions dismissed and my words misinterpreted is distressing to me.
  36. 2 points
    Hi, I just made an account on here. My name is Jenny, but everyone usually just calls me Goldi. I'm Aromantic. Feels good to say that. I'm still very much... in the closet. I live in the deep South, in the parts that are accepting, sure, but don't really like it when you say words they don't know the meaning of. I like to cook and bake, and currently go to College and pursue a bachelor's degree in something that has no hope of getting me a job. I also like to play video games and bike riding. If you want, you can AMA here, since I'm so terrible at writing I need questions to prompt me.
  37. 2 points
    I'm going to chime in here as someone who does use description, 'doesn't feel love for their friends' (or anyone in particular tbh). I didn't see @Magni's comment as throwing me/people like me under the bus, but rather a request, from someone who identifies as aplatonic, to think more carefully about how that definition might affect those who identify that way, especially when coupled with the example of the alloallo person. In the same vein of not throwing people like myself under the bus when discussing this topic, lets try not to throw other people under to protect us, especially other aplatonic people. I'm going to be honest, @Coyote's example rubbed me the wrong way a little. It hits a little too close to the fictional examples exclusionists pulled out of nowhere to try and prove some gotcha about why aro and ace people couldn't be part of any iteration of the wider LGBT/queer community. Which, I thought, was Magni's point.
  38. 2 points
    I find this to be passive aggressive and entirely unnecessary. Also your paraphrasing has an entirely different connotation and context then the quote you cite in your justification. And like....when I, as an aplatonic-spec person, tell you that I find what you're saying about aplatonic people to be offensive, the proper response would be to stop and think about how what you're saying comes across negatively and ask for clarification if needed, not to dismiss my concerns and further justify yourself. @CoyoteI don't like how you seem to be equating aplatonic with, like, just some allo person going "I don't love my friends"? It reminds me of exclusionist rhetoric and the ways people have ridiculed the term aplatonic. (idk how to word this better rn but can try to elaborate later if needed) I will elaborate on why I had a problem with your comment. It wasn't just the flippant definition of aplatonic you used, but the rest of the context and how it is similar to exclusionist rhetoric. Exclusionists would say stuff like "oh a cis heteroromantic heterosexual person who doesn't have friends can just say they're aplatonic and pretend to be lgbt" and just generally ridicule it as a term a lot. Do you understand how what you said comes across similarly to that?
  39. 2 points
    (Hopefully not derailing too much, but the two main panels were both for unconventional online conferences, so you can actually find recordings here from 2015 and 2018) Do you have suggestions? Aha, yeah, see, that's always the harder part. I personally prefer names like "Aces & Aros" or "Ace/Aro/Agender" (or even better, "and/or"!) to just saying "a-spec" since it makes it very clearly spelled out who is included. Although, tbh, if people really want to keep using the a-spec wordplay in group names, adding an explicit tagline or spelling it out would be much appreciated, especially in community names and descriptions. (So like, less "ABC College A-Specs" more "ABC College A-Specs: A community group for ace and/or aro identified students - and then include that tagline everywhere - in event page headers, in group titles, in rules posts, in emails, etc.) As far as for casual conversation about things like "there are trends in a-spec communities..." I would prefer phrasing like "there are trends in ace and aro communities" or "there are trends in ace, aro, and agender communities) (emphasis on the s at the end of communities) because these are almost always talking about trends that occur in disparate spaces that are almost always either ace or aro focused, rather than some unique third category of "aspec" spaces. (And, for the many instances where really the thing mostly only happens in just ace or just aro communities....just say that)
  40. 2 points
    I don't know how much of this was ace and how much was aro (and how much of a difference there is to me) but I never understood the kids in my class who got nervous around the "opposite" gender or things like that. Celebrity crushes, though, were and still are the most baffling to me. I don't experience romance but I can sort of understand it; I don't understand sexual attraction but I know it exists. But for celebrities? People you don't know and never will? When people asked about celebrity crushes, I always assumed they were just discussing which celebrities they found aesthetically pleasing.
  41. 2 points
    An allo ace could say the exact same thing about aromanticism "what this person who says "I just don't fall in love" has to do with me?" Same way, in the LGBT+ community, cis people probably don't connecter with trans specific troubles. But still, these people are linked together because some of the problems they face are similar. Not all but some of them. As @John Rando said, I think there is the same type of reaction to it. The logic of being define by a lack of certain attraction or feeling. For me the problems are similar. also, I'm not sur that "people who don't like their friends" is the best definition...
  42. 2 points
    @CoyoteI don't like how you seem to be equating aplatonic with, like, just some allo person going "I don't love my friends"? It reminds me of exclusionist rhetoric and the ways people have ridiculed the term aplatonic. (idk how to word this better rn but can try to elaborate later if needed) *** sidenote, I think it makes more sense for aplatonic to be included in a-spec whereas I don't think it makes sense for agender.
  43. 2 points
    oh right, it's pride month. no parades, but still celebrating 🎉
  44. 2 points
    Oh boy. A mistake, that's what. It's... complicated to explain because the origin story is just... a mess, but I'd boil down the sequence to 1) the ace community has had terms like romantic orientation, romantic attraction, aesthetic attraction, sensual attraction, etc. since the early 2000s, 2) that language started spreading and getting over-universalized, 2) some people were upset because they didn't want that applied to them, and some also felt Threatened by the mere concept of other people using it, 3) in 2015 a band of people on Tumblr started using "split attraction model" for a bunch of different things when modeled as universal, but then 4) people started using it to mean any use of those things at all, not just universalizing it, so then 5) people started to have arguments over whether this-inherently-defined-as-wrong thing is okay actually. And now, because nobody realizes that's where it came from, you've got people using the terms "non-SAM aro" and "non-SAM ace" to mean any of like three or four different things, defining by negation against something that was never properly modeled or created in good faith anyway. Nobody identifies as a "SAM aro" or a "SAM ace." That's not a thing. Anyway I'm an ace who doesn't use the romantic orientation model and I do use the terminology of several attraction types, and that's something this terminology just totally eclipses as a possibility. The term itself is based on this conflation of attraction subtyping (or "split" attraction, eugh) with romantic orientation, like using one necessarily means using the other, and it doesn't. LONG STORY SHORT it's a term that only exists because people are wigged out by aces, aros, and bi people existing. I can't hear the word without thinking about 2015-era Tumblr bloggers screaming about how my community is inherently homophobic, because that's the people who came up with it.
  45. 1 point
    :3 then lookng forward to it. Also yeah, sometimes we alone, but I like that we can come here each day and find new things.
  46. 1 point
    It also occurred the me that we might be approaching this from the wrong angle; while eventually we want to have a completed comprehensive individual article, the best way to do that would probably be by adding more content to the existing entry to make it bigger to such that it becomes clear it needs its own article. The way wikipedia articles are broken up, there's sections which are seperated with title above a line and then below that there can be subsections with bolded subheadings; currently, aromanticism is one of the underlined sections so can work towards creating content for bolded subsections below it. I think adding the subsection "community", and talking about history/organizations for aro stuff along with stuff about the pride flag and stuff about arospec awareness week should be reasonably feasible. Another section might be "in the media" which could reasonably be added, though might be harder to find stuff that can justify.
  47. 1 point
    This meme is problematic yeah, but at the time I think it is still aro. I mean, the only way to not tag it as aro would to tag it as aroace specifically, and even like that it is still problematic. Because there are attraction that are not romantic nor sexual : squishes, alterous, aesthetical... And sometimes these attractions are very important for aro. I mean there is straight/lesbian/pan/etc aroace, who are people though being both ace and aro still label themselves with "lesbian", "bi", etc because of the other attraction they felt. As @Momo said, the most problematic here is the meme in the first place, because it is weird to cancel something and I get why some people would feel uncomfortable by that. Yep. The difficulty here is that though we share things in common (aka, lacking romantic attraction), any experience is unique. Like, it seems that a lot of aros are romance-repulsed, and of course I can relate to it because I am not (at least, when it is not for me). Or there is this list of you might be aro if where I relate only to a few things in a very huge list, and I am still aromantic. In fact this is a difficult debate. To be honest, I think the best to tag things as aromantic if it can apply to aros (even if not all of them), and the thing that is upsetting is tagging something as aro if there is nothing aro in it. We could also create a specific aroace tag (or maybe it already exist? I'm not into tagging at all), but I think it would lead to other problems because then other differences could emerge in the community, and it would have no end. But maybe I am just thinking that because I am not an allo aro submerged by aroace memes?
  48. 1 point
    yeah, that's the ultimate aro song!
  49. 1 point
    I'm AMAB aro ace with ring fingers longer than index fingers. I'd also like to point out that correlation ≠ causation. I seriously don't believe for a second that your orientation (be it sexual or romantic) has any effect on the lengths of your index and ring fingers.
  50. 1 point
    YMBAI allowing yourself to experience discomfort in romantic situations, and/or getting out of these situations actually feels liberating. I have consented to so many things I did not really want or enjoy but because I was taught that I was supposed to want and enjoy them, so I kind of sucked it up and went along with it. Sometimes because I did not know any better, sometimes because I did not want to hurt someone.
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