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Everything posted by Mark

  1. I think the notion of a "line" is an application of a false dichotomy. Things can be both "platonic", "romantic", both or neither. Romance is purely abstract concept. Where things can get confusing is that many activities are "romantic coded". That is there is a social expectation that they happen only within a "romantic relationship". The term "platonic" is a huge mess. It's usual definition is as an antonym to either "sexual" or "physical". Within the asexual community it it was also sued as an antonym for "romantic". Where it sort of makes sense given that sex is romantically coded. However this meaning being carried over into the aromantic community leads to such oxymoronic terms as "platonic sex". As a final twist the term derives from the works of Plato. Which include the "soulmate" meme now associated with romantic relationships. There's also the term "alterous" which ma mean "neither platonic nor romantic", "platonic and romantic" or "between platonic and romantic". The latter looking like middle ground fallacy
  2. I would say that I'm missing out on being able to do many things which are romantic coded.
  3. I'm reminded of a thing I've seen recently about "ask culture" vs "guess culture".
  4. It's notable that many people commenting on the video will insist that something much be different. Even if it happened off screen. This is the case across social media.
  5. In respect of romance gender roles differ hugely. Thus asking anything along the lines of "Are men or women more romantic" can be apples and oranges. Part of gender role difference is that women are expected to be "hit on" whilst men are expected to do the "hitting on". Something I don't recall being asked is how do allos feel about "hitting on" someone they are not romantically attracted to along with how likely they are to do this. It's very clear being "hit on" romantically is perceived differently depending on if there is romantic attraction or not. (Including third party bystanders.) Shown in this video . I think it's, also, worth asking if aros, especially cis heterosexual ones, want to retain these kind of roles/behaviour for non romantic relationships. Having seen plenty of hyper romance from men of all sexual orientations I wonder if this is better described as being 'less unacceptable'.. I'm sure I recall a post here from a hetero aro woman expressing frustration at being unable to find men interested in romance free sex whilst also having to "fending off" those interested in her romantically. Complicating this whole issue is that it's socially normative to conflate romance and sex. Potentially to the point where perioriented allos may be completely unaware when they only experience sexual (or romantic) attraction. Indeed exclusive varioriented people, such as allo aros, can take years to decades to realise this.
  6. The term Friends With Benefits describes at least two different types of relationship. One might better be described as "Entirely Sexual". This tends to be favoured by allos and what you tend to find if you look up the term online. The other being "Sexual (or otherwise non-platonic) Friendship". This tends to be favoured by aros. Sometimes allos withing kink and poly communities. The other possible complication is that allos can have expecations of such relationships transitioning into romantic ones.
  7. Seems more likely to be "several different kinds of crap" in practice. With maybe some overlap at times. Something of a facepalm.
  8. I think XKCD may have got there first. It can seem at times that a lot of "aromantic terms" follow Unix Standards.
  9. This is also the case with racial categories and terms to describe urban areas. Including, those such as Singapore, where the country comprises a single city state. This seems an odd omission. Since I'd have expected those preparing the survey to be familiar with countries, such as the USA, which have a huge range of population density. With both isolated single dwellings and huge cities. The caveat to always include an "other" option applies here. There also may be people who live on ships, military bases, etc.
  10. It might be better to say they intersect. I wonder if if this might describe the majority of "aspec" projects, groups, organisations, etc.
  11. Rather depends what is and isn't included in it...
  12. IMHO a term like "romo-platonic relationship" would make rather more sense here. It makes no sense at all for two allo aces to use aro to describe their romantic relationship. Both romantic relationships and QPRs are abstract concepts. So I'm not sure how this makes any sense Ditto. Is this an allo ace (or AVEN) thing? AFAIK allo allos in mainstream society just use "(romantic) relationship" regardless of if they kiss, cuddle, have sex, etc. The looks like a variation on the amantonormative meme that everyone wants to be coupled. I suspect that only a minority of aros actually are interested in QPRs (of any form). This looks like an expression of relationship (type) hierarchy. I've always found this kind of statement oxymoronic. Even reading the post from 2011 it's unclear what it's intended meaning and audience is. Could it be intended for sex favourable asexuals rather than allosexuals?
  13. Experiencing or not experiencing a certain type of attraction does not determine what kind of interpersonal relationships people actually want. Even many alloromantics have little interest in being in a romantic relationship. Some common definitions of QPRs seem rather compatible with amantonormativity. Especially in terms of ranking relationship types by "closeness". There are also people who are only interested in non-monogamous relationships. Be that sexual, social, structural or emotional monogamy. Amantonormative societies are as much mononormative as they are romonormative.
  14. The other way this can go is the assumption that people who are not interested in couple type relationships must prefer to do things by themselves.
  15. I think we really need something similar for aros.
  16. I'm thinking of how this meme might apply. Accessibility: Being able to get into the building. Diversity: Getting invited to the table. Inclusion: Having a voice. Belonging: Being listened to.
  17. It's definitely from an ace perspective. Can't see anything obviously allo aro applicable. In terms of The Golden Orchid association this existed long before romantic relationships (and marriage) became normative. Which happened later in China than Europe, possibly even post 1949. This Kinsey reference seems to be more about the desexualisation of disabled people too. It's the all too common issue of the only depiction of aro being in an ace context. Which tends to imply aro as a subset of ace. Even without the intent of allo aro erasure this is a problem. Even if you treat the last one as a kind of split attraction it's unclear if "affectional" is intended to mean "romantic" or not.
  18. That would be an example of a backronym. The word "cis" is a Latin prefix meaning "on this side of". It's a, mutual, antonym with "trans". Which translates as "across from" or "on the other side of". The term for this is periorinted, which is a majority (~85%) situation. Whilst the asexual community has had some success in challenging this assumption for asexual alloromantics nothing similar has happened for allosexual aromantics. (Nor for heterosexual homoromantics or homosexual heteroromantics who are also exclusively varioriented. Though there could be a lot of "overlapping varioriented" people who assume they are periorinted. e.g. heterosexual biromantics.) Possibly romance (including seeking romance) makes sex acceptable in sex negative societies. When it comes to child acceptable, safe for work, consent, harassment, etc there are huge differences when it comes to social attitudes towards romance and sex. I wonder if romance, rather than sex, is key in respect of amatonormativity.
  19. Also using in avoiding the use of a double negative. There' s also the issues of aro being, often, being seen as a subset of ace and the "right person" meme. There needs to be more diversity of aro content. Since aro ace content may be unhelpful to aro allos. Whilst at the same time, mistakenly, seen as "general aro".
  20. Here, AUREA,etc. it would mean "alloromantic". Whereas somewhere like AVAN it would mean "asexual".
  21. Which is why I was so concerned by @Morgenfluss bringing up ace websites in this post. Which did look like they might be advocating using this as source material. Given how diverse aros are I'm uncertain how many such things there actually are. IIRC there was a Wikipedia page on aromanticism which, somehow, fell outside their rules and was deleted, There is a page on Romantic orientation Putting just about anything which starts "Aromantic" into Google tends to lead to articles about asexuality. I was asking @Morgenfluss for clarification about the "aromantic stuff on Ace sites" they brought up, along with why they though it was relevant to LGBT+ sites. IME the latter can be rather more common than the former. Possibly also something to the effect that boy/girl friend is a friend you have sex with. Prior to encountering the aro community I had never known it meaning anything other than "non-sexual" maybe also "non romantic" as a consequence of romantic coding of sex. The closest I can find to your definition is Merriam-Webster with ": of, relating to, or being a relationship marked by the absence of romance or sex". Though that could also mean "non-sexual, can be romantic" as well as "non-romantic and non-sexual". TBH I'd rather avoid using 'platonic' at all. It's, unfortunately, only a start. There's a lack of vocabulary for nonromantic sexual relationships (and attraction). The sex is a keyword whilst romance issue is one of the many ways in which sex and romance are treated differently. Hence conflating asexuality and aromanticism, including the idea that aces and aros face similar problems, can be such a problem.
  22. Something like "This was written by an aro ace. YMMV especially if you are an aro of a different sexual orientation" at the start. Rather than "not all aros are ace". Does this mean creating resources specifically for LGBT sites or "cut and paste" of existing resources? These could look, very, different in terms of both content and style. The omission of relationships based around sexual attraction from articles on Non-romantic relationships. Over focus on platonic, including squishes and QPRs, would be rather indicative of a lack of aro allo perspective. Ditto for erasure of other non-romantic and non-platonic attractions. Also Which is why I asked for some examples of the "stuff" in question. What is it and where does it originate from? I'll stick with my assertion material on an ace site is likely to have an ace bias. Ditto for material with an ace author.
  23. Quoting Brake on amatonormativity The first sentence easily explains what you are experiencing.
  24. You could think of them as a dramatic expression of a False Dichotomy.
  25. There's this article about the matter. Though the author still seems to favour the romantic coding to touch to an extent.
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