Is your sexual or romantic orientation a bigger part of your identity?

[Quinoa]

I think my sexual orientation is a bigger part of my identity. It's probably because being asexual seems to affect the way I experience the world more than being aromantic, at least for me. It's like everyone else has some sort of telepathy that I don't have. 

[DannyFenton123]

My romantic orientation is by far the largest part of my identity

[Confirmed Bachelor]

Same. Equal. They are not separate. They relate to each other. I don't have one without the other. 

[morallygayro]

On 7/3/2016 at 5:46 PM, Natkat said:

also I dont think being aro nessesarry makes you safe from homophobia. Somethimes when I have just been friendly with friends and we are viewed as being same sex, I got homophobic comments, small things as just talking or hugging nothing sexual nor romantic but its apperently enough.

 

 

 

 

That's a valid experience, but by that logic isn't it also true that nobody is safe from homophobia? After all, even straight people are sometimes mistaken for gay or bi.

[omitef]

On 7/3/2016 at 7:52 AM, Ugh... said:

To me, aromanticism and asexuality have almost fused together by now.
I do relate more to what aros say (because of the romantic side of most aces), but as a person I feel like they are both equally important to my identity. They both match my personality so well that whenever I try to imagine myself without one of them, it feels like a totally different person.

 

Despite being lithro and queer, I can also relate to this. My romantic and sexual orientation interplay and are inseparable from each other. I'm a mostly romance-repulsed lithromantic, who has only experienced romantic attraction to women and non-binary people, but is sexually attracted to people of all genders. However, I have a strong sexual preference for women and non-binary people, and I can't follow through with sexual acts unless I have an emotional connection to the person involved--emotional connection meaing anything from platonic to romantic attraction. To make matters more complicated, my romance-repulsion can be so extreme that I lose sexual attraction after previously being both romantically and sexually attracted to the person. 

 

5 hours ago, morallygayro said:

That's a valid experience, but by that logic isn't it also true that nobody is safe from homophobia? After all, even straight people are sometimes mistaken for gay or bi.

 

Yes. I've personally found that discrimination comes more as a result of how others perceive you, rather than how you perceive yourself. If other people think you are a woman, you will be treated in a sexist manner. As a trans man, I've been called out for cursing in front of cis male peers, who curse the same amount as me. My non-binary friend who presents femme gets catcalled. Even though neither me nor my friend are women, we get treated like women, because we are perceived as women. Platonic partners, or good friends of the same gender who interact intimately are often perceived as gay lovers, and are exposed to homophobia. So yes, no one is safe.

[Dodecahedron314]

3 hours ago, omitef said:

Yes. I've personally found that discrimination comes more as a result of how others perceive you, rather than how you perceive yourself. If other people think you are a woman, you will be treated in a sexist manner. As a trans man, I've been called out for cursing in front of cis male peers, who curse the same amount as me. My non-binary friend who presents femme gets catcalled. Even though neither me nor my friend are women, we get treated like women, because we are perceived as women. Platonic partners, or good friends of the same gender who interact intimately are often perceived as gay lovers, and are exposed to homophobia. So yes, no one is safe.

This. I spent the entirety of high school being mistaken for half of a lesbian couple with my QPP...even though that assumption couldn't be more wrong, because I'm triple-A and he's a grayro ace trans guy. How people treat you reveals far more about who they think you are than who you actually are, and I'd argue that there's generally very little you can do to contradict certain aspects of the former, no matter how obvious the latter may be (especially if the latter is significantly out of the realm of what would be considered "ordinary"--e.g. the widespread and persistent misgendering of nonbinary people because most people don't even know we exist, or the tendency to assume that close friends and QPPs are romantically involved because most people have lots of internalized amatonormativity that colors how they see others' relationships).

 

(However, I do think the "aros are only viewed negatively due to misplaced homophobia" argument veers dangerously close to Tumblr-style Aro Discourse™, about which I will say for the record only that it shouldn't happen in this thread.)

[omitef]

1 minute ago, Dodecahedron314 said:

However, I do think the "aros are only viewed negatively due to misplaced homophobia" argument veers dangerously close to Tumblr-style Aro Discourse™, about which I will say for the record only that it shouldn't happen in this thread.)

 

When you wrote "misplaced homophobia" I had this absurd image of giant cardboard cutouts of homophobic slurs scattered across the floor, on the shelves, on a dinner table, and a very frantic bigot running around the room trying to pick them all up

[Zema]

@Dodecahedron314 & @omitef would it be worthwhile to create a new thread on this topic which you've brought up (on misplaced homophobia and being treated for how you're perceived and not for who you actually are)? I'm saying this because 1) it's off-topic for this thread and 2) it seems like it might be a worthwhile discussion to have.

[omitef]

@Zemaddog Sure, I'll make a post later. 

[morallygayro]

14 hours ago, omitef said:

 As a trans man, I've been called out for cursing in front of cis male peers, who curse the same amount as me. My non-binary friend who presents femme gets catcalled. Even though neither me nor my friend are women, we get treated like women, because we are perceived as women.

Yeah but that's due to transphobia. You're being misgendered, treated as something you're not. (And I'm also trans btw - leaning toward genderfluid transmasculine or nonbinary trans boy as a label)

[omitef]

4 hours ago, morallygayro said:

 sorry about the post above, can't figure out how to delete quotes in mobiIe. If anyone has further comments on misplaced homophobia in relation to arophobia, please go to this new thread 

[Faeriefate]

6 hours ago, morallygayro said:

Yeah but that's due to transphobia. You're being misgendered, treated as something you're not. (And I'm also trans btw - leaning toward genderfluid transmasculine or nonbinary trans boy as a label)

 

So, people are transphobic because you can't choose a label? Or people are transphobic because you're a binary nonbinary transguy?

[DannyFenton123]

Please stay on topic. Please do not derail the thread with aggression and personal attacks.

[Natkat]

On ‎05‎-‎07‎-‎2016 at 10:04 PM, morallygayro said:

That's a valid experience, but by that logic isn't it also true that nobody is safe from homophobia? After all, even straight people are sometimes mistaken for gay or bi.

 

True even straight people can be somethimes attacked on the assumtion they are gay.

what im saying is I think aros in paticular may somethime be easier assumed to be gay (even if they arnt) because of lack of interest is seen as a proff that we arn't straight (so we must be gay), or the way we make friendships are somethimes out of the traditional friendships model that makes people questionate us.

 

like at one of my previous school there was a guy he was not femenine or anything neither had he ever said he was gay. however he did not care for sexual or romantic relationship. when the other guys talked about women he simple said he was more interesteed in money and getting a new car. and yeah then he hanged around me alot who was the only visible "queer person" in the class but funny enought I was way less bullied for being gay than the guy I mentioned above.

 

apperently people thought "no mention of interesteed in relationship with women (and neither with men), no mention of sexual interest in women (neither with men) + hanging around bi guy = gay person".

 

the thing is alot of people dont even know we exist, so they will easly asume we are straight or gay depending on how we interact with the genders around us.

 

 

 

[Jade]

My romantic orientation is by far more important to me.

 

Like, I was surrounded by an environment that was pretty chill either way about sex, but strong about romanticism: disney, "who's your crush?", and "you'll understand when you're older" haunted me long before I knew what sex was. Not only that, but I've never been targeted by much homophobia except for casual stuff (mostly from when I was questioning), while amatonormativity essentially crushed my life, invalidated my abuse, and devalued everything and everyone I cared about. In my specific scenario, being aromantic tells me that I will probably spend my life loving my friends and wanting to live with a QPP instead of dating and getting married, while being homosexual tells me that I will see cute girls and be attracted to them and sometimes maybe have sex with them. One dictates a large portion of my life; the other is a smaller thing, at least to me, in a very liberal area of the world, with a majority-queer friend group, and a low libido. Heteronormativity hurt me somewhat, yes, but usually in amatonormative ways that emphasized heterosexual romance as the Most Important Thing, while amatonormativity--as I said before--basically destroyed my life for years on end. So, yeah, I identify way more with being aromantic than I do with being a lesbian. Being aromantic shapes the entire way I see the world in a way that being a lesbian doesn't.

[morallygayro]

23 hours ago, Thom said:

 

So, people are transphobic because you can't choose a label? Or people are transphobic because you're a binary nonbinary transguy?

They're transphobic because I live in a fucked-up society that coercively genders everyone from birth and punishes you if you break out of your assigned role

18 hours ago, DannyFenton123 said:

Please stay on topic. Please do not derail the thread with aggression and personal attacks.

I've seen very little aggression or personal attacks in the thread but ok...w/e

[DannyFenton123]

2 hours ago, morallygayro said:

They're transphobic because I live in a fucked-up society that coercively genders everyone from birth and punishes you if you break out of your assigned role

I've seen very little aggression or personal attacks in the thread but ok...w/e

If you want to continue this discussion please do so in another thread. Thank you!

[Faeriefate]

4 hours ago, morallygayro said:

They're transphobic because I live in a fucked-up society that coercively genders everyone from birth and punishes you if you break out of your assigned role

I've seen very little aggression or personal attacks in the thread but ok...w/e

 

 Labeling someone's sex at birth is extremely important. In fact, you birth sex is important your whole life. I simply don't understand why people hate doctors for assigning a sex at birth. There are certain medical conditions that are more likely in one sex than another. There are certain things that only one gender can get! How is a doctor supposed to know that you should be more wary of breast cancer if they don't know you're born female? How are they supposed to know to check for prostate cancer if they don't know you're born male?

 

To remain on topic, though... Since I'm sapioromantic, I don't feel the need to tell everyone my romantic orientation because it'll tell them nothing of who I am attracted to. So, I guess asexuality is more important for more important for my identity.

[Swablu]

Well this derailed :0  but, getting back on topic:

I'm aroace, and it's actually really hard for me to separate my two orientations - they're just one big blobby identity clump.  Like, I find it really hard to talk about aromanticism without some aceness showing and vice versa, whenever I talk about asexuality you can usually tell I'm aro.

I've been told it's not very #relatable for allo aros and aces, and I mean I try but usually I'm just like ?? 

[Confirmed Bachelor]

1 hour ago, Swablu said:

Well this derailed :0  but, getting back on topic:

I'm aroace, and it's actually really hard for me to separate my two orientations - they're just one big blobby identity clump.  Like, I find it really hard to talk about aromanticism without some aceness showing and vice versa, whenever I talk about asexuality you can usually tell I'm aro.

I've been told it's not very #relatable for allo aros and aces, and I mean I try but usually I'm just like ?? 

I'm the same. Their so interconnected. I guess if I really think about though, it's the aromanticism that is most visible to everyone else. People don't actually know if you're not having sex if you don't talk about it. But if you're not in some kind of romantic relationship that's out there for everyone to see. And people are more apt to ask if you're involved romantically with someone than to ask if you're sexually active. 

[hangryeowyn]

Hi, um I'm not sure if this question was intended for me (am I too normative? sorry), but my aro identity is more important to me. When I say "important" I guess I just mean how much I notice it or it affects my life. In my case I notice my aro-ness A LOT more when I'm interacting with religious folks. Baptists would prefer to pretend that sex drives aren't real and that sex is only to reproduce and is otherwise SINFUL (~ooohhhhhh spooooky~ XD). In less strict Christian circles it's just kind of a taboo subject to talk about. Therefore to them, Romance and Ultimate Love have always been the Most Important Things. Seriously, they never stop talking about it. And when I'm interacting with a sexual partner sometimes they'll say something like "don't fall for me haha" and I'm like yeah totally (note: some dudes get annoyed if you don't play along and pretend that you might actually fall for them lmao). Of course I'm only conscious of my sexuality when I'm around my friends, who are all either bi, pan, or ace. I recognize that my straight privilege is why I don't always notice, but it's thanks to my friends and their gentle guidance that I have learned and continue to learn how to be more sensitive to other people's identities. Because after all, we aren't all born 100% aware of every social justice issue.

 

On the other hand, I could make the argument that my sexuality is more important because of the privilege it gives me and its visibility. Being aro is more abstract I think. I can and have faked romantic interest since I know what it looks like but I dunno...

[Zema]

3 minutes ago, hangryeowyn said:

Hi, um I'm not sure if this question was intended for me (am I too normative? sorry)

It was intended for everyone regardless of sexual or romantic orientation. Don't feel bad!

[SoulWolf]

Being aromantic has had a much bigger impact on my life than being (mostly) asexual has. Sex is something I can simply avoid, and people don't really talk about it much anyway, other than crude jokes and whatnot, which I can usually understand and laugh at, so that's not an issue. I can even make those jokes myself.

 

Being aro however, means that a large part of what other people experience and talk about is completely alien to me, and I can't relate at all. Or at least that was the case when I was younger - it seems less of an issue now that most of the people I hang out with are older than me and already married. Maybe they're past that point now? I always felt so awkward being around people who already have a 'significant other' - it's like I just have no idea if I'm some kind of a threat just for talking to them, or if someone's going to get upset or some crazy irrational stuff. I think I'm mostly over that now.

 

Actually being agender (I think) has also had a pretty big impact in similar ways to being aro... the fact that most people actually identify with a gender of some kind also seems a bit alien to me. Things like "but you're a woman, therefore you should understand X" has been a frequent comment in my life, to which I just roll my eyes and sigh. Also, as a child when people who didn't really know me would get me presents, they'd get me typical girly things. Usually in pink. Every time it was another reminder of how different I am and how little other people understand me. Don't even get me started on school uniforms... skirts and dresses and having no choice over what I wear... And school changing rooms lumping everyone together in the same room and expecting them to be perfectly comfortable with just taking their clothes off in front of each other. I got so ridiculously hot in summer from wearing extra layers under everything just to avoid this madness.

 

So basically, relating to other humans has always been a challenge in more ways than one.

 

My aro-ness causes a lot of confusion and awkwardness, but I think being agender-ish has been actually borderline traumatic in a few ways.

 

People always assumed I'm shy... it's not that. It's just that I feel like an alien around people. If I'm around people I can relate to, even if only in one way, the 'shyness' disappears almost completely.

[Philbo Wiseroot]

11 hours ago, SoulWolf said:

Being aromantic has had a much bigger impact on my life than being (mostly) asexual has. Sex is something I can simply avoid, and people don't really talk about it much anyway, other than crude jokes and whatnot, which I can usually understand and laugh at, so that's not an issue. I can even make those jokes myself.

 

Being aro however, means that a large part of what other people experience and talk about is completely alien to me, and I can't relate at all.

 

This is me, really. Sex is hidable because sex is (mostly) private. Romance, on the other hand... 

 

Even though I'm (unwillingly) out with certain members of my family, I still get the "when you get a girlfriend..." stuff. Just yesterday, mum say on Facebook that I was watching Netflix with my best friend (who is about 3800 miles away), and mum (admittedly jokingly, but that's not the point) has us married with kids. Add to this: it's expected that "there's someone for everyone" and everyone would like to have a romantic partner.

 

In the words of Odo from DS9: "I'll never understand the humanoid need to... 'couple."

 

And I also love this quote too:

 

 

Odo: Frankly, in my humble opinion, most of you humanoids spend far too much time on your respective mating rituals. 
Commander Sisko: It does help the procreation of one's species. 
Odo: Procreation does not require changing how you smell, or writing bad poetry, or sacrificing various plants to serve as tokens of affection. 
 

 

[Mark]

On 03/07/2016 at 1:46 AM, Dodecahedron314 said:

Meanwhile, society still hasn't gotten over its fixation that everyone has to have someone they're madly in love with, or else they're just waiting to be swept off their feet by someone, or any of those other cliches that are considered to be universally applicable and part of human nature even though they absolutely aren't, so people are a lot more confused when they run into someone that just doesn't apply to.

For me it's the idea that everyone wants to be in a couple, find "the one", cohabit, get married, etc.
With other people getting confused that I want none of this whilst wanting to be able to do sensual and sexual things (on a basis of non exclusive mutual co-operation and friendship.)

Whilst I have little idea how to approach anyone, since the only kind of friendship I know how to form is of the platonic kind which I learned as a child.