frustrated by lack of representation and fandom

[treepod]

Anyone else get really disappointed when a character you related to as possibly aro turns out not to be, or fandom for the character ships them relentlessly? It's nobody's fault really (people deserve to write about and imagine whatever makes them happy), but it still makes me sad and lonely in my little aro corner. I have a few examples.

 

My first (and probably most traumatic) encounter with this was when I was in high school, my best friend recommended the book Graceling to me. It was a great book, from what I remember, and I really enjoyed the magic system. And at first, I was so ecstatic about the main character's distain for the guy who kept flirting with her. She seemed decidedly repulsed and offended, and was determined that she didn't need or want a relationship. But when she slowly fell in love with him and especially when they had sex, I was so mortified. I felt deeply betrayed by this character, who I'd been totally rooting for as an independent badass. But I didn't have the heart to tell my friend that it put a huge damper on the whole book for me (of course she shipped the two pretty hard).

 

Jughead from the Archie comics is a really particularly odd example. I personally knew nothing about the comics before the Riverdale show was announced, but in the midst of it I did find out that Jughead was intentionally asexual and most likely also aromantic (google image search "Jughead asexual" and you'll find all kinds of hilarious quotable moments). Sadly, even though his actor in the show was all for the idea of keeping this canon, the writers didn't agree. Instead I guess he's ambiguously angsty and brooding and """different""" for no actual reason, and he still gets a girlfriend. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  I don't actually know because I've tried to stay as far away from Riverdale as possible. But so much for educating pop culture on an aro/ace narrative...

 

Next, since the new season three of Stranger Things, there seems to be a bunch of people anxious to know whether Will might be gay. This is a nice thought, sure, but given that the only evidence is his lack of a girlfriend and Mike saying he "doesn't like girls," it's not very compelling... most people seem to be ignoring that not liking girls does not equal liking boys. Obviously for us, this is very frustrating. And actually, one could much more easily make the argument for him being aro/ace because he always seems so tired by his friends' relationships, always wishing they could play D&D like they used to. Poor guy. He even told his mom, at breakfast after being grossed out by his older brother and Nancy, "I'm never going to fall in love." Like hello

 

And finally, I just finished watching the recent tv adaptation of Good Omens. I get particularly mixed feelings here. On the one hand, I totally get why people really really love shipping Crowley and Aziraphale because their dynamic is such a good mix of comical shenanigans and genuinely touching moments. But while I was watching the way they interacted over the course of the show, instead of hoping they'd kiss, I was just thinking "wow I want whatever this is real bad" (speaking as someone who's hoping for a QPR type of thing in my own life). Like, I'm really invested in how their relationship develops in canon, but I don't feel the need to imagine it going any """further""" because it's already my ideal situation. But the fandom is downright obsessed with them as a romantic and sexual thing. Like it's literally all there is. The whole "ineffable husbands" thing gives me war flashbacks straight to 2014 johnlock. Yeesh... ?

 

Well this has been a rant. Again, people can enjoy whatever they want, I just wish there was a little more room for me.

 

 

 

 

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

Me, furiously digging myself further and further into the hole I have created within my fandoms by blacklisting every ship tag and blocking half the fandom and only interacting with the 5 people in my gen servers and churning out 20 genfics a year: Sorry did someone say something I think I have dirt in my ears

[The Angel of Eternity]

@treepod I can completely relate to this (though I do not have as many examples as you do). Unlike what you mentioned, I do not plan to have a QPR in the future. I plan to remain completely single. My example may have made it a bit more "explosive" to bear than were I planning to have a QPR.

 

Anyway, here's my example:

My dad had shown me the movie trilogy of Back to the Future in late June or early July 2019 -- somewhere around that period. There was a character in there named Emmet "Doc" Brown. Emmet is a mad scientist who focuses on his crazy invention ideas. I envisioned him as an ace/aro because he had not had any romantic/sexual relationship pushes in the trilogy (he even reminded me of a teacher/counselor at my university who looked like Doc AND was good at math AND whom I suspect may be ace/aro! -- I greatly respect this counselor/teacher.). During Back to the Future III, it was revealed that Doc had fallen into love and, at the end, had children with the woman with whom he'd fallen into love. I was a little disappointed about this, realizing he would never live up to my "ideal" of what he should be. I still like Doc just as much as before, though, and I have accepted this revelation. After all, it's not wise to be too attached to one's expectations of what another should be. That will be detrimental to one upon realizing that person cannot and will not live up to those expectations.

[nonmerci]

6 hours ago, treepod said:

Next, since the new season three of Stranger Things, there seems to be a bunch of people anxious to know whether Will might be gay.

I also see people say that he may not be interesting in relationships right now, but will be in the future.

Honestly I don't particurly assume that characters are aro, but if Will isn't I will be so disappointed. His arc like season was really one of an aro. All hus character is screaming "I am aromantic" so hard, if he is not I will be disguted.

 

And about visibility, I posted a comment on YouTube about him being aro, and an idiot answer that aromanticism doesn't exist. So yeah it would be cool to have an aro character in such a popular show.

 

6 hours ago, treepod said:

 I don't actually know because I've tried to stay as far away from Riverdale as possible. But so much for educating pop culture on an aro/ace narrative...

Don't mention Riverdale or you won't stop me and my anger lol. There is just so much to say about it.

1. The fact that it is praised as a good show for LGBT people after having be so direspectful for aro and aces. Of course you don't need to have an aro or an ace character in a show to be a good LGBT show. But when their is a character that has been declared officially asexual (meaning aroace in this case I think, considering the character and the lack of information), and that people change this just so he can date Betty?  This is an insult to us and to asexuals. And let's be honest : if they has done that with a bi or homo characters, the show would have been boycotted. But aro or ace? Nobody cares and this is unfair.  And the worst is that even the actor playing Jughead wanting him to be a-spec, he did researches and all about it, and the producers ig ore it because they thought Jug and Betty was cute together.

2. People saying things like "Jughead was gay in canon, because at this time to portray a gay character you had to portray him with a lack of interest in girls". Hello? How do you portray an aro ace character without a lack of interest in relationships? Plus it is official that he is asexual since 2015. I understand that people can be sad if they think about it as gay, but saying this like that is so aphobic : they say that as if they made him ace just to be cool or whatever, and ignore all the signe that he was aro and ace from the begining.

3. Some asexuals saying "asexuals can fall in love too"! Of course they can, but we all know that Jughead was also aro. And I don't like how they say it as if their orientation matter,  but not aromanticism.

 

(I told you, don't let me started on Riverdale lol; fortunately the show became such a non sense that I feel glad to not watch it)

 

About shipping a QPR, I understood a posteriori that watching the Originals, I was shipping Cami and Klaus as a QPR. Well not exactly, but I remember that I like their relationship the way it was, and that I didn't wanted them to date (or maybe at the end of the show when I won't watch lol). I thought that them kissing would mean the end of their relationship, not the begining. They really had a strong platonic thing, and for me romance would destroyer what they had. Of course I didn't understand d why the fantôme didn't share my opinion, as I didn't know about aromanticism at that time.

 

6 hours ago, treepod said:

Anyone else get really disappointed when a character you related to as possibly aro turns out not to be, or fandom for the character ships them relentlessly?

As I know aromanticism is not well known,  I don't expect characters to be aro, instead of really obvious case like Will to mention (I will be very disappointed if he is not aro in the end), or Riverdale because they change his identity.

[Holmbo]

I think shipping is always gonna be a big part of fandoms. And no couple is safe from it, not even siblings. ?

 

I think the amount of shipping is different depending on fan site though. Places that have a lot of memes and sharing of quick reactions will in my experience have more than those who are more about text.

[Guest]

1 hour ago, Holmbo said:

I think shipping is always gonna be a big part of fandoms. And no couple is safe from it, not even siblings. ?

 

*sigh* I wish you were wrong  

 

 

2 hours ago, nonmerci said:

Don't mention Riverdale or you won't stop me and my anger lol. There is just so much to say about it.

1. The fact that it is praised as a good show for LGBT people after having be so direspectful for aro and aces. Of course you don't need to have an aro or an ace character in a show to be a good LGBT show. But when their is a character that has been declared officially asexual (meaning aroace in this case I think, considering the character and the lack of information), and that people change this just so he can date Betty?  This is an insult to us and to asexuals. And let's be honest : if they has done that with a bi or homo characters, the show would have been boycotted. But aro or ace? Nobody cares and this is unfair.  And the worst is that even the actor playing Jughead wanting him to be a-spec, he did researches and all about it, and the producers ig ore it because they thought Jug and Betty was cute together.

2. People saying things like "Jughead was gay in canon, because at this time to portray a gay character you had to portray him with a lack of interest in girls". Hello? How do you portray an aro ace character without a lack of interest in relationships? Plus it is official that he is asexual since 2015. I understand that people can be sad if they think about it as gay, but saying this like that is so aphobic : they say that as if they made him ace just to be cool or whatever, and ignore all the signe that he was aro and ace from the begining.

3. Some asexuals saying "asexuals can fall in love too"! Of course they can, but we all know that Jughead was also aro. And I don't like how they say it as if their orientation matter,  but not aromanticism.

 

I wish you were wrong too. I hate all of this...

 

 

9 hours ago, treepod said:

Jughead from the Archie comics is a really particularly odd example. I personally knew nothing about the comics before the Riverdale show was announced, but in the midst of it I did find out that Jughead was intentionally asexual and most likely also aromantic (google image search "Jughead asexual" and you'll find all kinds of hilarious quotable moments). Sadly, even though his actor in the show was all for the idea of keeping this canon, the writers didn't agree. Instead I guess he's ambiguously angsty and brooding and """different""" for no actual reason, and he still gets a girlfriend. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯  I don't actually know because I've tried to stay as far away from Riverdale as possible. But so much for educating pop culture on an aro/ace narrative...

 

If only they also said "aromantic" in the comics.. they probably used "asexual"  for aro ace, unfortunatly. And that was only in one spin off ><

 

But i agree, i would have loved to see aroace jughead in a tv serie ! I heard the show was actually good for other lgbt+peoples. Too bad. I am very disapointed in Riverdale.

 

 

[treepod]

2 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I think shipping is always gonna be a big part of fandoms. And no couple is safe from it, not even siblings. ?

 

I think the amount of shipping is different depending on fan site though. Places that have a lot of memes and sharing of quick reactions will in my experience have more than those who are more about text.

True that! I guess when I said people should be able to enjoy *whatever*... there are some limits. What you say about different fan sites makes a lot of since. The wild thing I discovered about Good Omens is that shipping overwhelms everything everywhere. I’m sure there’s other stuff out there from more mature people but of course the really avid ones drown them out and it overwhelms me a lot. I think I may have found one podcast that looks like it will be all or mostly free of it. 

 

51 minutes ago, Cristal Gris said:

If only they also said "aromantic" in the comics.. they probably used "asexual"  for aro ace, unfortunatly.

Yeah I had a feeling that was a case. It seems that general lexicon isn’t usually aware of the split attraction model, so since the words people are already familiar with are terms like bisexual, asexual looks like the corresponding term for somebody who’s interested in nobody (as in one or the other, both/all, or neither/none, where asexual = neither/none). It looks from the outside like a complete system. Also people have a hard time imagining what a relationship without a sexual element would be like, so that’s probably part of it.

 

3 hours ago, nonmerci said:

I also see people say that he may not be interesting in relationships right now, but will be in the future.

Honestly I don't particurly assume that characters are aro, but if Will isn't I will be so disappointed. His arc like season was really one of an aro. All hus character is screaming "I am aromantic" so hard, if he is not I will be disguted.

 

And about visibility, I posted a comment on YouTube about him being aro, and an idiot answer that aromanticism doesn't exist. So yeah it would be cool to have an aro character in such a popular show.

Yeah this here is really a great opportunity to educate pop culture en masse because this show is so beloved. If they pass it up I’ll be crushed. Not to mention how insulting it is when someone “gives in” to a romantic relationship. Like Jughead would have basically been cut and paste easy representation if they’d let it. But instead they made a self-indulgent social-outcast-meets-popular-kid trope that no one needs any more of. Our identities get boiled down to social ineptitude and coming of age sexual awakening narratives and it drives me up the wall. 

4 hours ago, nonmerci said:

About shipping a QPR, I understood a posteriori that watching the Originals, I was shipping Cami and Klaus as a QPR. Well not exactly, but I remember that I like their relationship the way it was, and that I didn't wanted them to date (or maybe at the end of the show when I won't watch lol). I thought that them kissing would mean the end of their relationship, not the begining. They really had a strong platonic thing, and for me romance would destroyer what they had. Of course I didn't understand d why the fantôme didn't share my opinion, as I didn't know about aromanticism at that time.

“The end of their relationship, not the beginning” yes! QPRs are pretty ambiguous as a term and don’t have a lot of good examples in fiction, so I was actually really grateful for the way the main characters in Good Omens displayed intimacy on an emotional level while remaining at somewhat of a distance. But when fandom turns this into a juicy will-they-won’t-they thing, it occurs to me that to most people this stuff is just like foreplay to the main event. But to me, them “getting together” would spell the end for the dynamic I loved so much.

7 hours ago, The Angel of Eternity said:

@treepod I can completely relate to this (though I do not have as many examples as you do). Unlike what you mentioned, I do not plan to have a QPR in the future. I plan to remain completely single. My example may have made it a bit more "explosive" to bear than were I planning to have a QPR.

 

Anyway, here's my example:

My dad had shown me the movie trilogy of Back to the Future in late June or early July 2019 -- somewhere around that period. There was a character in there named Emmet "Doc" Brown. Emmet is a mad scientist who focuses on his crazy invention ideas. I envisioned him as an ace/aro because he had not had any romantic/sexual relationship pushes in the trilogy (he even reminded me of a teacher/counselor at my university who looked like Doc AND was good at math AND whom I suspect may be ace/aro! -- I greatly respect this counselor/teacher.). During Back to the Future III, it was revealed that Doc had fallen into love and, at the end, had children with the woman with whom he'd fallen into love. I was a little disappointed about this, realizing he would never live up to my "ideal" of what he should be. I still like Doc just as much as before, though, and I have accepted this revelation. After all, it's not wise to be too attached to one's expectations of what another should be. That will be detrimental to one upon realizing that person cannot and will not live up to those expectations.

It can be extra frustrating when writers feel the need to give a character an obligatory “happy ending”/wife+kids because that’s what’s expected. It’s like they don’t know how to finish the job when it comes to creating a character with an unconventional lifestyle. Still I’m glad you can enjoy Doc’s character regardless. I totally see why he’s appealing and how he’s one of those special ones to keep with you for a long time. Ultimately it’s better to focus on what mattered to you about him in the first place.

 

 

 

 

[raavenb2619]

7 hours ago, treepod said:

It can be extra frustrating when writers feel the need to give a character an obligatory “happy ending”/wife+kids because that’s what’s expected.

cough good omens cough

[treepod]

1 hour ago, raavenb2619 said:

cough good omens cough

(how do I do strikethrough on mobile?)

Are you referring to the story itself or the fandom?

[raavenb2619]

4 hours ago, treepod said:

Are you referring to the story itself or the fandom?

The TV show. It's been a bit since I've watched it (and this based only on the TV show, not anything else), so I'm a bit hazy on the details (and very hazy on the names), so correct me if I'm wrong about any of the following, but...

Aziraphale is with Crowley (makes sense. this show is about their interpersonal relationship and we get a lot of chemistry between them, so I have no complaints about this)

Guy who breaks computers ends up with witch lady (ok sure? they had some on screen chemistry in the show this is sort of plausible)

Old witchfinder cult leader guy ends up with lady who shared a body with Aziraphale briefly (seriously? didn't he super hate/distrust her for like 90% of the show? is he ending up with her because we need a happy ending and it's not a happy ending if their are single adult humans? i think so)

[treepod]

4 hours ago, raavenb2619 said:

The TV show. It's been a bit since I've watched it (and this based only on the TV show, not anything else), so I'm a bit hazy on the details (and very hazy on the names), so correct me if I'm wrong about any of the following, but...

Aziraphale is with Crowley (makes sense. this show is about their interpersonal relationship and we get a lot of chemistry between them, so I have no complaints about this)

Guy who breaks computers ends up with witch lady (ok sure? they had some on screen chemistry in the show this is sort of plausible)

Old witchfinder cult leader guy ends up with lady who shared a body with Aziraphale briefly (seriously? didn't he super hate/distrust her for like 90% of the show? is he ending up with her because we need a happy ending and it's not a happy ending if their are single adult humans? i think so)

Ahhh. Yeah that about describes my scope of understanding/comfort level with those relationships too. The last one I remember did baffle me a lot and it did feel obligatory. But it’s a comedy so maybe it was meant to be sort of a gag pair. Usually when it’s minor characters I just tolerate/ignore it. I’m glad personally that they didn’t feel the need to define Crowley and Aziraphale’s relationship at least, embracing that it’s unconventional instead of trying to “tie up loose ends”

 

EDIT: I just found this and I’m living for it: 

basically it sounds like Neil is saying that because they’re beings not of this world, anything is possible, and thus he prefers to leave it up to the viewer’s imagination. Their love for one another could be interpreted as being on a different level apart from the friendship-romance dichotomy. Neat!

[assignedgothatbirth]

14 hours ago, treepod said:

Yeah I had a feeling that was a case. It seems that general lexicon isn’t usually aware of the split attraction model, so since the words people are already familiar with are terms like bisexual, asexual looks like the corresponding term for somebody who’s interested in nobody (as in one or the other, both/all, or neither/none, where asexual = neither/none).

but that is a correct definition of asexual? not all aces use the split their attraction and saying that if you're not interested in anyone than you have to identify as aroace is erasing a lot of people's experiences. if the creators say that jughead is asexual, than that means that he's asexual. it supposes nothing about his romantic orientation, or whether he has one at all.

[treepod]

2 minutes ago, assignedgothatbirth said:

but that is a correct definition of asexual? not all aces use the split their attraction and saying that if you're not interested in anyone than you have to identify as aroace is erasing a lot of people's experiences. if the creators say that jughead is asexual, than that means that he's asexual. it supposes nothing about his romantic orientation, or whether he has one at all.

I mean yeah. My point was that the general public isn’t very aware of aromanticism as a thing that can be separate from being asexual and that can be a little annoying sometimes. I never meant to say that someone has to use the split attraction model. This is coming from someone who used to use asexual as a blanket term for my own aromanticism as well, so I know what that’s like.

[aspecofstardust]

On 8/7/2019 at 8:20 PM, treepod said:

Anyone else get really disappointed when a character you related to as possibly aro turns out not to be, or fandom for the character ships them relentlessly?

 

 

 

 

all the time! When I watched Captain Marvel back in March I really saw Carol and Maria as a qpr, but I got totally stomped on by even my close friends who saw them as lesbians. I just wish that queer allos got as excited about aro and/or ace representation as I get about other kinds of queer representation. 

[Skittles87]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:20 AM, treepod said:

And finally, I just finished watching the recent tv adaptation of Good Omens. I get particularly mixed feelings here. On the one hand, I totally get why people really really love shipping Crowley and Aziraphale because their dynamic is such a good mix of comical shenanigans and genuinely touching moments. But while I was watching the way they interacted over the course of the show, instead of hoping they'd kiss, I was just thinking "wow I want whatever this is real bad" (speaking as someone who's hoping for a QPR type of thing in my own life). Like, I'm really invested in how their relationship develops in canon, but I don't feel the need to imagine it going any """further""" because it's already my ideal situation. But the fandom is downright obsessed with them as a romantic and sexual thing. Like it's literally all there is. The whole "ineffable husbands" thing gives me war flashbacks straight to 2014 johnlock. Yeesh... ?

 

 

I was literally just moaning on Twitter about this.

 

Good Omens: "angels are sexless unless they really want to make an effort".

Me: "So Aziraphale's asexual, right?"

Good Omens fandom: "Wrong. Here's some porn."

 

I know shippers are gonna ship, but it is frustrating. And the Riverdale thing is not OK at all because that's not just people writing shippy fanfic, it's professional writers getting paid to erase a queer character's identity.

[Apathetic Echidna]

On 8/25/2019 at 10:26 PM, Skittles87 said:

And the Riverdale thing is not OK at all because that's not just people writing shippy fanfic, it's professional writers getting paid to erase a queer character's identity.

This This This. 

 

I'm relaxed about fandoms because it is basically peoples' hobbies, or they use it as a way to improve their writing skills like essays you have to do in school. However when professionals get praised by the masses for 'representation' when it is clearly not ? ?(we have no poop emoji?)

 

I find being really strict about what I watch/ read is the only way I can deal with it. Mostly I avoid fandoms if I love the canon.  

[eatingcroutons]

On 8/8/2019 at 3:20 AM, treepod said:

Anyone else get really disappointed when a character you related to as possibly aro turns out not to be, or fandom for the character ships them relentlessly?

First question: Fuck canon, that's what fandom is for and they can still be aro in my AU

 

Second question: Only in the same way I get disappointed when I ship something different to a fandom juggernaut. I'd always like to have more content that caters to my personal interests, but I won't begrudge other fans their fun. (Obligatory "shipping is not activism" mention) 

 

I'm 100% here for critically discussing professional shows with poorly-executed "representation" though. 

[Holmbo]

3 hours ago, eatingcroutons said:

First question: Fuck canon, that's what fandom is for and they can still be aro in my AU

 

I rather like this approach. Reminds me of a podcast I listened to where the hosts stated that there's always one correct ending for a TV show. Which excist regardless of how the writers actually end it.

[Morgenfluss]

A character I personally see as aromantic is Dean Winchester from the show Supernatural. Nothing has ever been confirmed, the fandom is just all about portaying and pushing him to be Bisexual and (of course ?) therefore biromantic, but he's got some good lines that just resonate with me. I don't know how you would see these, but I tried to find some examples:

 

Spoiler S11E04

Quote

DEAN: Piper? That's awesome. Heather. One-night wonders, man. Shoot, we're lucky we still get that at all.

 

SAM: Really? You don't . . . Ever want something more?

 

DEAN: I'm sorry, have you met us? We're batting a whopping zero in domestic life, man. Goose eggs.

 

SAM: You don't ever think about something? Not marriage or whatever. But . . . Something? You know, with a hunter? Somebody who understands the life?

 

DEAN: Have you not heard a single word Bob's been singing about? You're tired. I can tell. You're exhausted. Well, I'm still wired, so I'm gonna pull over, get some gas. You hop in the back, get some Z's 'cause, buddy, you earned 'em. Proud of ya! Piper. Mmm. Man, she smelled good, too.

Spoiler S5E22 and following

Quote

Dean is living with Lisa, the most romantic like relationship he's shown having on-screen. But in those episodes he and Lisa come across as friends more than partners. It is alluded to that they have sex during that time, but no relationship is ever shown and/or specified.

 

Spoiler S5E11

Quote

DR. CARTWRIGHT: Okay. When was the last time you were in a long-term relationship?

 

DEAN: Define long-term.

 

DR. CARTWRIGHT: More than two months.

 

DEAN: Never.

 

Since I didn't want to go through the whole series again, these are just some snippets, but at least to me they are signs that Dean might be aromantic. At least I see him that way.

[Relay]

Mick Rory on DC's Legends of Tomorrow has shown all the tell tale signs of aromanticism since the show began (he is not "ace").  They just refuse to use the "A" word to describe him.

 

This season, they decided to finally give him a girlfriend, because it is a CW show.  The most recent episode they made it a point to show that he was experiencing a "crush" for the first time.

 

Now part of me was thinking "head canon is dead", he is not aromantic, but then I realized this is his first crush.  He is Demiromantic! and therefore Arospec!  I was right!

[felinelicks]

On 8/7/2019 at 7:20 PM, treepod said:

And finally, I just finished watching the recent tv adaptation of Good Omens. I get particularly mixed feelings here. On the one hand, I totally get why people really really love shipping Crowley and Aziraphale because their dynamic is such a good mix of comical shenanigans and genuinely touching moments. But while I was watching the way they interacted over the course of the show, instead of hoping they'd kiss, I was just thinking "wow I want whatever this is real bad" (speaking as someone who's hoping for a QPR type of thing in my own life). Like, I'm really invested in how their relationship develops in canon, but I don't feel the need to imagine it going any """further""" because it's already my ideal situation. But the fandom is downright obsessed with them as a romantic and sexual thing. Like it's literally all there is.

I haven't watched Good Omens yet, but I've experienced this so many times. It's so frustrating. It sucks to see this dynamic I really want and then go online and see everyone talking about how the exact things I like about it mean that they're obviously in love. Like it's impossible to have a connection like that without romance. It's complicated because I'm allosexual and my ideal QPR would be sexual, so part of me does like some of the shippy content. But it's exhausting that it's always paired with romance and I have to wade through all these invalidating comments about how the only thing they could possibly feel for each other is romantic love. It's just not true. There are other kinds of love, other kinds of relationships that can be just as intense. People get so caught up in their ships that they refuse to see any other possible interpretation.

And it's the same thing with characters that seem aro ending up in romantic relationships. It's like people don't even consider the possibility that they could be happy without romance. Never even occurs to them. If a character doesn't express interest in the opposite gender, people just think they're gay or haven't met the right person or whatever.

Obviously people can ship or headcanon whatever they want, I'm just salty because it's everywhere. I can't escape it.

[nonmerci]

15 hours ago, felinelicks said:

I haven't watched Good Omens yet, but I've experienced this so many times. It's so frustrating. It sucks to see this dynamic I really want and then go online and see everyone talking about how the exact things I like about it mean that they're obviously in love.

Same. And it's even worst when it is about characters of the same gender, or who have different origins, because then if you don't ship them, it is necessary because you are homophobic or racist. I recently see people that homophobia is the only reason why some people don't ship Sherlock and Watson, for instance.

The same way, I am a lot in a TV show named Merlin. The main character never dated anyone, and I canon him as aro, but I felt alone because any video I see on youtube is about how he and Arthur are totally in love. But I see them in a QPR or an amazing friendship, and I feel so alone. Same for Good Omens that I am reading.

 

Edited May 25, 2020 by nonmerci

[chairdesklamp]

@nonmerci OK, so I can tell you in the '80s, at least, they did this with *real people.* Luther Vandross was billed as the Pavarotti of pop. In his genre (nascent R&B), especially back then, you pretty much *had* to do love songs in that genre.

Vandross never dated as far as we know. He was a preacher's son, if I remember correctly. Everyone assumed he was gay. 

He died ages ago. I definitely get the feeling I'm the oldest one around here, just like people my age tend not to publically ID as NB, because amatonormativity and binarism were just so enforced back then. 

And of course, behaviour is not necessarily orientation. I myself am only realising it was pretty much amatonormativity that drove me to seek partnerships in the past. 

But the point is that everyone looked at a real person not dating at all and shoved him in the "gay" box. Really, there are multiple possible explanation. One is he may have been aroace.  

But what people are saying about Jughead is reflective of how strong the "gay and straight are the only things that exist" binary was at the time. They're not necessarily right about Jughead anymore than people were necessarily right about Vandross. Unless the Archie fans have some official statement from back then. (Writers from the 1950s, I'm assuming are mostly no longer living to make statements currently, just as Vandross is deceased and cannot about himself)

But you can even find Vandross fans in YouTube comments today arguing "he didn't date anyone therefore he's gay."

So yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that was and by older people, still is, done to real people who don't date too.

 

As for the wider topic at hand, I know it's pro-cop propaganda, as all cop shows are, but even though no one knows what this means, I wasn't happy when they started hinting at Sugisita's romantic past on Aibou. I also *was* happy when the final episode of Furuhata Ninzaburou, when he died, he was stated to have "died happy" because he had a chocolate bar. He was always Colomboing conventionally attractive female killers, that's the show, but nothing ever slipped him up. I'd actually love to recommend it, but I've never seen it subbed in English. (If you read written standard Chinese,though, I think Tudou/Soku has it)Also, these some may know, Bleach and Digimon 02. The tacked on romo epilogues just made no sense. I was actually hoping for Bleach to end pairing-free (besides any pairings, all hinted or tragic, that were already there). I mean, I have a fic project and I write Ichigo greyro, demisexual, and poly myself, so with more attraction than I have, but the cishetnormative end pairing made no sense from his side, and kinda short end of the stick for Orihime's. And shouldn't Renji and Rukia have that Westermark thing going on? Like how fans ship Tousirou and Momo... Do not get it.

Honestly, I thought all these things long before I started considering I might be aro, and these should've been hints, but amatonormativity is a heckuva drug.

And Digimon, Miyako's feelings cooled off once she got to know Ken (I just thought about it, but frayro?), who never showed any feelings beyond calling her by her first name. Yamato and Sora at Christmas came out of left field. I agree with Taichi being confused. 

Both really felt like a lot of songs from when I was growing up-- you'd have a song about anything else ever, like Yagami Junko's Purple Town or Toyama Hitomi's "SFO kara Oakland Ma-de" which are about travelling and seeing the sights in NYC and where I now live, respectively, but then they just throw in some random romo line out of the blue. 

I've actually really got into men's fashion/lifestyle magazines from the old country. No romo there! (Even though American men's style seems to assume attracting a female mate is the only reason a man would *bathe*...)

Edited July 10, 2020 by chairdesklamp

[Guest Anon]

I recently finished an anime called Dr. Stone, and I never knew that I could wish so hard for a character to be canonically aroace. He puts science above all else, so it's harder than with most people to tell who he's friendly with, but there is nothing in the show that suggests he feels any sort of romantic or sexual attraction. A big part of the fandom seems to think that he's just too busy to be looking for a relationship (which makes a lot of sense for his character) but I really identify with him and want him to be confirmed aroace.