chairdesklamp

I'm not down with giving everyone and their brother a vocab lesson. I had a racist, abusive ex-wife who ruined my life-- lost my home tonnes of debt, and people usually just accept "I am done and over relationships" well enough. Most people offline, I don't even go into the fact that I've also dated men (all before I realised aro was a thing you could actually be, similar to what kept me from coming out as trans at any point in my life before I did, because I didn't know you could be trans *male*) People I'm close with know these things. I...other than people I'm close to and my Chinatown community (my community for so long, they knew me years before I came out as trans), I'm locked in conservative environments. Even when they're not doing violence to me for not performing some macho garbage, I'm so, so done with being a learning module, especially when they're already transphobic or racist as all get-out. If you're not important to me, you don't get my vulnerability. It probably won't even come up within my community. Society, especially older folk, is not having the amatonormativity discussion yet. My feeling may change, but for now, I don't think it really matters to me if people know it, especially since I'm old enough everyone just accepts "bitter/done" I sure would like an aro group at my local LGBT centre, though...

I am never living with anyone ever again. The good members in my family have all been dead for decades, I never had kids, and everyone I live with scams/cheats me out of obscene sums of money relative to their time living with me, (which I'm in social work, go after someone who *has* money), and the one person ever who didn't out of all those people over 24 years caught feelings for a girl she just met and packed up to vanish into the ether with her within a week or so. Be *very* careful who you trust to live with. Even the "magical world for two" woman left me financially scrambling, not to mention all the people who left me in debt a/o the emergency room. BE CAREFUL WHO YOU LIVE WITH, EVEN REGULAR HOUSEMATES. That being said, all that being cheated out of everything took its toll, and thanks to gentrification, the housing part *still* hasn't fallen back into place. I want a two bedroom all to myself, where I can have all my cosy nostalgic mid-mod everything, but have a spare bedroom for the newer things, like a functioning and modular desktop computer and a massage chair for my 438 chronic pain conditions, without ruining the feel of everything else. In the past, I considered a dog, because I love dogs and they love me. But I work in shelters and stuff where I can get surprised with an overnight double shift. Also, vet bills can get in the thousands if it's bad enough, and again, my field of work is just so, so broke. So I don't assume I'll ever have the kind of money to just cover that. Also, if you have pets, kiss your nice stuff goodbye, so, yeah.

And this is why we need aro (and ace) support groups at the local LGBT+ centre! I'm new to my identity, but not my feelings. Think about it this way. I have the bitter cilantro gene. (It's not like soap, just bitter. And soap is bitter. But so's bitter melon) People from Mexico, Vietnam, traditionally put it in a fair number of dishes, and more recently, suddenly white people have learnt about it, and white people especially get all "this is delicious!! Let's put it in everything!! Let's shove it up our noses!! It tastes so good-- How can you not like it!? How can someone not like exactly what I do/not be a clone of me!?" (And that's amatonormativity in this metaphor) But when I put cilantro in my mouth, all I feel is "blegh!" Maybe they enjoy it. Maybe the experience of cilantro is good to them. Maybe it's their favourite herb ever and they even put it on ice cream! But it doesn't taste good to me. I taste and like plenty of other things. I still love steak and tripe pho, just without cilantro. It's no less pho if I order/make it without cilantro. It's not "lacking," and actually makes me much happier without cilantro. And I pass on eating at yuppie fave Chipotle 100% because they would put it in their *soda* if they could. And my taste in food is no less worthy or sophisticated because all the gourmet people suddenly decided cilantro exists and is the best thing ever. Does everyone see what I mean? (hugs) I'm new to realising I'm aro/aro is a thing you can be specifically, but I've been identifying as something beyond cishet for over 20 years. I've come out of as many closets as there are in a standard McMansion, and compile that with being an immigrant to the US, and even in Japan as a kid, I was mixed-race and motherless. I've never been the norm in my life. It's OK to exist outside the norms. The problem is normalisation. You're not "broken" or "lacking" or any of that. What's there to "miss out on" if you don't enjoy the thing in question?

Also repulsed for myself/real life, but I'm totally OK with it in media. I love (www English) popular music, and apparently there's an unwritten law that says 90% of your songs must be heteroromantic (no recs, please. I don't want today's hip kids' music) , and I'm genuinely OK with that, even if when I write (to then let languish) I 100% write about literally anything else. I don't mind it in media, and I ship... writing romance the most aro way possible, it would seem I get really happy those once in a blue moon cases a character could be read as aro or they specifically go "we don't talk about so-and-so's love life" and they don't seem to have one. Both shows I can cite like this are Japanese, not translated, so I can't share them with 98% of people I know (they're famous, though, so that other 2% usually know them already), and also copaganda (which I'm aware of, but I like logic puzzles. I just harden myself to that message) I wish more shows were like that, but I've only minded it when I had reason to not expect a cishetamatonormative development (Bleach ending is a good example) But happen to me? NOPE.

Jazz fusion/Citypop/soft rock, listened to on analogue media (I take a tape Walkman out with me, I still own 8tracks at home) mid-mod/nostalgia of when I was a kid, MY BLOODY SPELL CHECK NOT CONVERTING EVERY BLEEDING WORD TO RANDOM FRENCH AND SPANISH ALL OF A SUDDEN, overcast weather around or below 50F/10ish C, tabi (traditional type of sock form the old country), those rare times I do get to speak my native language, my local library in Chinatown, a hot cup of jasmine tea, the soothing burn of certain pain salves, cube glass walls, being at my church (Jodo Shinshu Buddhist), hugs/friends that are OK with affection (harder to come by now that I'm living as male), spending hours with a trusted friend just talking about random stuff, my wonderful house worth of mid-mod everything that's in storage and I miss them, pouring rain on days you can stay home and listen to it while staying dry, and the feeling of looking nice in a suit and tie (which I decided to just wear today when all I was doing was running errands. Why not?) Oh, and a good tailor, because nothing comes short enough for me www (Who needs romance when there's so many freaking things to enjoy out there?)

I identified as bi since the '90s. I mistook "you don't treat me like absolute garbage and are nice looking" for romantic and sexual attraction. I got into relationships (4 total in my life) because of amatonormative brainwashing -- "nOt BeInG mArRiEd MeAnS bEiNg CoMpLeTeLy AlOnE aNd Is A fAtE wOrSe ThAn DeAtH" and they were always out to make me a free roof over their heads, free meal ticket, free punching bag, and Asian rape doll (yes, there are people who chase Asian men, too. Look at any fandom for Japanese anything in English, crawling with them) The last one I got into I'd been talking with him about his feelings as a newly out gay man. And I learned what sexual attraction was. And that I never felt it. I had known someone on line who was a sex-repulsed ace for a few years. I'd thought ace was sex repulsion back then. I fully supported them (as much as someone can while not quite getting the meaning of the words) ... without knowing I was a lot like them. This led me to hearing the term aro, but didn't lead to discovery until last month. It just meant freak outs and soul searching I felt way too old for www What confused me about aromantic was misreading my own feelings. I actually, especially compared to the average allo who discards friends to ride off into the sunset with someone they met three hours ago, but even that notwithstanding, I can develop very *very* intense platonic feelings. Also, toxic masculinity -- I thought it was "just a guy thing to not like the mushy stuff." I definitely at this point (last year) questioned whether that was valid or toxic garbage. Apparently, it was romance repulsion. I'm also actually cupiosexual, which I discovered "cupio-" from an aro terminology list. and on top of that, would strongly prefer another man at this point. That I'm really good friends and do cool stuff and talk all night with. And there's room for sex and stuff if we feel like it. And we live close by but never together because I've lost a few places to live that way. So all those things kept me from identifying the lack of attraction for...well, "men only" is new, but nothing else is, so a good 22 years at least.

Uh, an attempt at a topknot but you actually cut your hair so it doesn't loop back through? JP animated media loves to do spiky hair. I wanna say it started with Toriyama's stuff, but was particularly popular to draw when and since short and spiky was a popular men's style in the '90s and into the early 2000s. Dragon Ball started in the 80s, but it was later on that suddenly everyone drew spiky hair. And there was both a real hairstyle and the fact I left Japan in the '90s, so I can't say what the bigger influence was. I dunno when your game's from but I heard of it for the first time last week from someone about 17 years old. They typically don't spend much time on media from before 2000. That one's nothing, though, you should see this guy https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/2e/RenjiAbaraiKubo.png Actor wearing the actual spiky 'do I was talking about (obviously the guy on the right, not the one with the receding hairline) ⬇️ I think that style was popular with teens here around the time, too. It took lots and lots of gel. You could almost cut your hand on your hair www

This except my idea of sexual attraction was more like aesthetic + I don't even know tail of a pig, ear of a fox, love potion no. 9 and becoming Jean Grey and reading everyone's mind (I only know I've been flirted with when it's pointed out. Always with exasperation. No I can't compute a .000000003 seconds longer than normal gaze. Do I look like UNIVAC to you?) = "yes we have sex because it feels good" (which I do think it can if both partners are in the "Is It Good for You" mindset. Important for me to mention due to DV) Not just grew up, but my idea of it, though I never had this, was "you treat me like a human being when no one else does and are actually real nice to me when most of my new country isn't" has resulted in me going "I must be in love" and though I lacked confidence to be alone (in big part because of how everyone treated me since I came here, incl. American side of family) and let myself be coerced into abusive relationships, my idea of a functional one was always just "really committed best friends who build a life together and have some kind of physical intimacy." In fact, the best couples, I always thought, were the older, been married forever types that were totally on the same page about things and functioned as a team/unit with no romance (at least in front of others. My granparents had some particularly but not always when they thought they were alone, so no, not that) I never wanted the romantic stuff, just wanted to skip straight to that. The Fresh Off The Boat episode where they pretend to want romantic time on Valentine's so the kids will give them space, but it's actually to do taxes, more like. Going to a Toukyou Tower restaurant for the view and to feel fancy and wear a nice suit. With someone who agrees on splitting something relatively cheap... You blow out any candle on the table because that's weird the lights are working just fine and you're also afraid of knocking it over. There's no staring at each others'eyes because there's no reason to have a staring contest? But your habitual place is the 7$ giant bowls of steak and tripe pho place or the classic hamburger diner with senior and disabled discount. You probably talk about your aligning views on current events or work or something. Or how Americans wear their shoes in bed or something. No making out after because how do you even breathe? But if it's daytime, maybe go to a particularly cool library or a music store that sells your preferred format/era. Now, I just want a same gender FW room for B. I could still do all the above outlined date stuff with him. Which, frankly, I wouldn't mind doing with other friends except alloros and particularly married ones probably would make the Toukyou Tower type one weird. But When you're 137 things it's cool to hate and in big city environments in a hateful era and country, it's not just that I've undone the amatonormative programming, living with anyone is... you lose more homes to abusive abled leeches who move in and then don't pay a cent and who beat and degrade you that way. And yeah, I do even mean just roommates. Plus living alone, I can watch TV in my native language or eat food from the old country while actually being from my country and no one will mock me for it. So I don't live with *anyone.* And even though I'm now confident in myself, and no more bigots in my life beyond, yanno, bigot co-workers I only talk to at work but wouldn't even go out for drinks with afterwards (pretending I can drink), and I wouldn't have a F, B or not, who was a bigot, boundary is no one lives with me whatsoever. And so, I no longer wanna skip to old non-romantic couple because that still requires too much interdependence. I don't wanna share my life anymore. They can go get their own. Sorry if I've rambled.

@DeltaVHuh. Admittedly, since I'm guessing this is Europe before the 19th Century, that's waaaaay out of my range of knowledge. I can say in my old country, before about 1880, men often wore their hair tied up in a topknot. Americans, when they invaded in 1860-ish, and forced Japan to assimilate to America ways, had a huge thing of publically shaming men who didn't go along with it by cutting their hair off in some kind of public spectacle. And then a few years ago, white yuppie men decided it was stylish to go around as yet another thing you were tormented for if you were Japanese at some point since the 1860s but apparently is good and pure for whites to do. And that is why anyone with a "man bun uwu" will only ever get contempt from me. I'm not the only Japanese person even in my immediate local area I know who feels this way. However, I didn't think to really mention it because it's not likely to be relevant to many others on here as far as traditional men's hair. And my only real Western knowledge is America, also late 19th century to present. Who is that guy by the way? Just can't place a name to the face. If you expected him to be known, I'll probably recognise the name.

Oh, @DavidMS703 I want to add a caveat to behaviour: Association. Now things can have different associations for different people For me, I'm fine writing English, but it's my least favourite language to speak because I've been under constant racist and xenophobic attack by its speakers since pretty much the moment I arrived here 26 years ago. Japanese is my favourite because while, yes, I did get a hard time for being mixed because I was in a less diverse area (it would have been cool in the Toukyou-Yokohama area, but I was in Koube) the side of my family that lovingly raised me spoke it, and what I did get in Koube is *nothing* compared to racism here. Let's just say Japan never had any Jim Crow-like stuff. There's this mixed basketball player from Japan, recruited into the Wizards. For him, he feels closer with the non-Japanese part of his identity, so from what little public statements he makes, he relates better here. In other words, just like all trans people experience trans differently, all aro people experience being aro differently, etc., we experience anything in our own way. Having long hair used to be automatically feminine until the hippies. From then on, male hippies, rockers, etc. could be seen with long hair. HOWEVER, if it MEANS an expression of your non-maleness to you, that's quite possible and valid. Everything really is unnecessarily gendered. I read a gag post about how cisnormative people might gender different types of pasta, and it was spot on. However, if something makes you feel gender euphoria/like your actual gender (my term, real gender and AGAB are opposing in trans people) even if it's not intrinsically or even commonly a gendered thing, that's valid and a thing.

The key isn't really what you like or want out of a relationship, or adherence to any other norm or behaviour, but exactly what you say here, that you don't identify with,I assume, your AGAB. That is really all not being cis is. The rest is varied by individual, and if anyone tells you "you must be this gender (non) conforming/dysphoric/etc to enter" that's just gatekeeping. I'm a man. My personality, behaviour, vibes, apparently, and interests and all that are all pretty neutral. But I don't connect with anything but male. It's kinda like how behaviour doesn't define orientation. I can't speak to anything outside of the binary, but I thought I'd throw my two cents in and that I support you exploring gender to find what best fits you. However you choose to ID is up to you, but you're completely valid.

I dunno how common this is, but I've seen it a few times and I've read idealised versions in fiction. Alloromantics don't seem to handle this well from what little I've seen, because the whole "sex must be love, and even though I just said I love U2's music literally five minutes ago because this is English, now the only kind of love is romantic love no other love exists my good family can rot." Which there's also the whole Puritanical backwards views on sex. You have to want it but it's also bad. In real life, I've seen this devolve into fights (you both agreed to this!) because A is angry B feels the same as they both said they did and is not develop romantic feelings. And in fiction, A sulks or whatever and B develops romantic feelings if it's happy, and if not it's a bad ending and B is bad, not A, who changed it. A is pure and above reproach. I ideally, though not a must, want something close to that, although I'm cupiosexual, and sometimes there's the ace block there, so the emphasis would be on the "F" (which yanno, very few alloros believe in friendship) I.... Yeah, I wouldn't try it with an alloro. Do keep in mind the real life I've seen is all 15+ years old. These days, peers are generally married, usually with kids (I do know a happily childless couple) with the occasional divorcee who's just done but alloro. So these days, for today's people who aren't married yet but want to be, it could be different, but I'm still seeing other commenters say it's still considered temporary for alloros. (Which wouldn't appeal to me either because I play all my close bonds for keeps. I don't like when friendships end/are thrown away because alloros think you're only ever supposed to talk to your partner) And this is a huge reason why we need things like LGBT centre meetup groups.

Bi is the ID. I hate the word "laaaaaaaabelllls" because the idea behind that term came from later 20th Century attempts to erace anything beyond straight and gay by telling us it was dehumanising, like being a product. Which was often seen in media as characters who presented bi being said to "not like laaaaaaaabelllls uwu" Long post because I'm looking for terminology and need to throroughly explain everything I'm trying to name. In the '90s, I was, of course, brainwashed multiple different ways by amatonormativity and blindsided by the loneliness of being the only East Asian immigrant around (I was even living with the white and right-wing/Nazist and chaser side of my family, I'm Hapa. So I was even alone in my *house*) and all the racism that comes with that, including severe targeting by staff, and I went through three high schools. What ended up happening was anyone who was kind to me + aesthetically pleasing (not according to conventional standards, often heavily influenced by things like kind facial expressions and demeanours) I read my feelings as romantic and sexual for lack of frame of reference. People I ended up with were people that showed interest in me and I basically agreed out of lonliness and trust as well as positive platonic feelings. Although I only realise this looking back. Well, they all wanted a Japanese meal ticket to rape and beat. Staying was often a combination of feeling trapped due to lack of confidence (gaslighting that I needed them to survive when it was actually them living off me) I saw someone on Tumbler talk about bi-ace bridges forming in the '70s and '80s because of ace people going "no attraction to men or women"= "same attraction to both" (it was a very binarist period, so outdated understanding of gender, but it's historically appropriate. I claimed bi under this poor understanding, but as people my age tend to identify with the binary at really high rates due to growing up this way, NB people my age are rare, I would still stick to bi just because I know it'd be at least two but I can't say about *all.*) So my aesthetic attraction, which is definitely a thing, works for at least two genders. Women I feel it towards are a bit more common than men because it's a broader range for them. And again, I lack frame of reference beyond that. (I'm not really attracted to significantly younger people, either) However, there's this certain type of relationship I do want, I'm not sure if the feeling in this hypothetical relationship is platonic or alterous instead of romantic. Any lean toward wanting exclusivity is purely an STD/HIV prevention concern. I don't really understand monogamous impulses (I have a best friend, big sister I always wanted, who is very monogamous because it's in her religion, so I get that, but I can't personally relate to things like jealousy unless there's an unhealthy dynamic reason, like "better than you" statements are being used or jealousy develops due to neglect in favour of another partner) I'm not sure if it's alterous or I'm doing the "this is something else because of external criteria" I know I'm cupiosexual, based on what cupioromantic means. I don't experience sexual attraction, but I can enjoy the act with someone I wholly trust (I'm part Asian and trans, as well as a DV/SA survivor, and some things people use bigotry to call disgusting and undesirable, like hearing impaired, short, fat, so trust must be strong and is key) I'd want cuddling, which I used to lay on my dad and watch TV as a kid, so I don't really see that as limited by anything but general closeness. I hate kissing, which is probably an ace thing, and I'd just want to do fun things and have deep conversations with this person otherwise. And emotionally lean on each other in rough times, which I see as vital to any close bond, barring ones where it can't go both ways due to large age gaps/age hierarchy. Which are not peer relationships and are hence unsuitable for anything I'm talking about. I'd want two or three nights a week together, but never live together. That's a sure fire way to get your place in your name stolen from you, from which I still haven't recovered. When I get a real place that feels like a home instead of the terrible place I have now that costs a mortgage, no one will ever live with me again, period. The thing is, I can only see this relationship with another guy. Again, it's based on criteria like "someone who understands things like drinking out of the soda bottle to save a glass and eating cold leftovers" (even though proper hygiene and a decently kept house is a must. I don't want one of those people who only bathes for sex) The feeling toward wanting another guy is pretty similar behind wanting another cigarette smoker who doesn't use any street drugs and doesn't like to get drunk, because that's me. Which I'm not sure is how orientation works for allos. A lower level concern is cultural competency-- being half East Asian, being someone who immigrated from Japan/ East Asia sometime during American mandatory schooling age, being fluent in something I am and English is tollerable but I've faced so much bigotry for not being a barely-literate native monolingual that it's last choice, even if I'm used to it, and the necessity of cultural acceptance in lieu of cultural competency are all concerns that have the same emotion or logic behind them as the gender requirement. Which again, I don't think is anything like orientation. It's more like "this is something I want to be on the same wavelength about." (Even though most of my cishet closer friends are female) Kinda like how some people want to match on religion. I have no idea what kind of relationship I just described. I know my aesthetic attraction is bi, but I don't know what the one relevant to this is. Is it truly homo-whatever, or does the fact that it's same gender due to criterion I can name cancel that out? I feel like I'm describing something definitely different than a QPR and a little different than a basic FWB that alloros might have as some kind of temp arrangement and then it morphs, ends, or they get angry about it because they're weird. Plus sex isn't the emphasised part. And since alloros don't value friendship, I assume common FWBs for them are mostly about the B and less F. This would be emphasis on the bond. Sexual activity is just a thing that can be done. I know it's my decision to ID as I feel, but can anyone give me verbiage for all this? The reason people 35+ tend not to identify this way and cram themselves into amatonormativity as I did until last year is because of lack of awareness and names for these things.

Real life ugh why would you. Those are real people. I don't even write fic for live action stuff (barring "there are live action versions of this but it was originally drawn in some form") As a result, I'm only in two fandoms. I have a massive project that has grown to cover both fandoms, separately while sharing lore and eventually merging. Excluding prequels, they merge 17 years into the story. There are no timeskips. What have I done help me. This is gonna be long, but I swear I have a point: Anyway, the main character of one (both canon-wise and here) I ended up writing him greyro demisexual without realising it. He's literally slated to break up with his best friend because he loves him, but "he doesn't feel comfortable with" romantic stuff basically and best friend needs it, so they're incompatible (it's'97 in Japan. People know about trans stuff, he's living as male already because I made him trans male instead of cis male, but there's no words for this yet) he later becomes poly with that guy, but they have an understanding, and that guy's (trans) wife is the one he indulge in romance with. The main character's husband at this point, they're kind of likemega-best buds on the adventures of life, a problem solving team, they're always the first to validate each other, and making a giant family together (because the world demanding sterilisation to be valid sticks in my craw, so there) but they're not romantic at all, despite the main character's parents imaginations of them being allo, they're both greysexual and I'm still figuring out what romantic boundaries are, but they're definitely arospec, even though they don't have the words for a long time. (The reason they're greysexual is mostly meta for unplanned pregnancy, and making them cupiosexual was not something that occurred to me, even though if that's a word, it me, as the kids say) The closest to romantic they get is actually husband calming main character down because it's the 2008 housing crash and they lost their shirts. And one other later, reason would take too much words. But both are just... slow dancing to lite rock and the words "I love you." Then cut to others in the room and it's back to being a written sitcom. I wanted to share this here in detail because I've been nailing this out since I abandoned the old version (in my native, but this is in English), on Pixiv in *2011*. When I was still claiming bisexual. And had no idea what this meant, let alone I could be it. I only realised what any a-orientation meant *last year* Eight years after I started this. (Though I'm not demi anything, so it's not the same. I'm pretty sure no one exactly matches what I am) So I did this *completely subconsciously.* One of the prequels I'm actually trying to write an allo (bi trans man+gay cis man) relationship starting, and I feel like that DJing dog meme. Even though we've all been deluged with allo romance portrayals. The point is, though, that while yes, I ship, I've realised I do it in pretty arospec ways. When I do try to write romance, it's like when you try drawing with foreshortening for the first time. You know it looks off but you don't know how or why. AND SOMEHOW NONE OF THIS CLUED ME IN. That's the real kicker.

I'm Hapa. The white side is estranged for good reason because they're all white supremacists, some while also being/having been chasers, which that's about colonisation of POC bodies, so it's a thing. Point is, they were never much of a factor in my life, so I don't really even connect with the Italian side... Anyway, well, my Japanese side was really tiny. My dad always wanted a son, for multiple reasons including carrying on the family, but not limited to. He always treated me like both genders, so I actually knew how to shave and stuff when I transitioned. And I think in the end, he'd've been really happy about that. I think he'd've then tried to match me up or push me to find a trans woman. Like my ex-wife. Except maybe also at least some part Japanese (I mean I'm already mixed, so who knows?) I'm very happy I didn't make any kids that had to have her as a mother. Vile, vile person. I'm not the only person I know that thinks that. Anyway, I don't think he'd've been thrilled about this, but frankly, even if T did nothing to the uterus, I'm over the age it's easy or recommended to have kids, so I don't know if it'd even matter to him at this point. I can say that recently, I'm looking for a place that isn't a dilapidated dump full of violent bigots. I was at this place in Chinatown that folded because of Covid, a job search place, but she was trying to help me find an apartment. (No joy. SF Bay Area) Her husband had a brother who was married to a Japanese woman. This woman had a single sister, and she tried to get me interested three times. I so wasn't, but it didn't bother me 100% even though it was unwanted because it kinda reminded me of my dad talking about me carrying on the family and I just miss having a dad. He wasn't the best person, but he was a pretty good dad. and also, being mixed, I'm no stranger to running into (more women than men as far as Asian) people who One-Drop Rule me out. I often say"when you're mixed, you're 100% whatever the person in front of you likes less/hates more/considers their outgroup." (Except Asian immigrant men don't do this to me, and Latines often in-group me until I have to tell them I'm not which is always a bit sad because, again, always outgrouped and I finally got ingrouped) So, yeah, that was... I had mixed feelings, wasn't entirely negative, even though I did *not* want to be steered into a date. If it was a common thing, though, it would drive me up the wall and I'd become avoidant.

@nonmerci OK, so I can tell you in the '80s, at least, they did this with *real people.* Luther Vandross was billed as the Pavarotti of pop. In his genre (nascent R&B), especially back then, you pretty much *had* to do love songs in that genre. Vandross never dated as far as we know. He was a preacher's son, if I remember correctly. Everyone assumed he was gay. He died ages ago. I definitely get the feeling I'm the oldest one around here, just like people my age tend not to publically ID as NB, because amatonormativity and binarism were just so enforced back then. And of course, behaviour is not necessarily orientation. I myself am only realising it was pretty much amatonormativity that drove me to seek partnerships in the past. But the point is that everyone looked at a real person not dating at all and shoved him in the "gay" box. Really, there are multiple possible explanation. One is he may have been aroace. But what people are saying about Jughead is reflective of how strong the "gay and straight are the only things that exist" binary was at the time. They're not necessarily right about Jughead anymore than people were necessarily right about Vandross. Unless the Archie fans have some official statement from back then. (Writers from the 1950s, I'm assuming are mostly no longer living to make statements currently, just as Vandross is deceased and cannot about himself) But you can even find Vandross fans in YouTube comments today arguing "he didn't date anyone therefore he's gay." So yeah, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense, but that was and by older people, still is, done to real people who don't date too. As for the wider topic at hand, I know it's pro-cop propaganda, as all cop shows are, but even though no one knows what this means, I wasn't happy when they started hinting at Sugisita's romantic past on Aibou. I also *was* happy when the final episode of Furuhata Ninzaburou, when he died, he was stated to have "died happy" because he had a chocolate bar. He was always Colomboing conventionally attractive female killers, that's the show, but nothing ever slipped him up. I'd actually love to recommend it, but I've never seen it subbed in English. (If you read written standard Chinese,though, I think Tudou/Soku has it)Also, these some may know, Bleach and Digimon 02. The tacked on romo epilogues just made no sense. I was actually hoping for Bleach to end pairing-free (besides any pairings, all hinted or tragic, that were already there). I mean, I have a fic project and I write Ichigo greyro, demisexual, and poly myself, so with more attraction than I have, but the cishetnormative end pairing made no sense from his side, and kinda short end of the stick for Orihime's. And shouldn't Renji and Rukia have that Westermark thing going on? Like how fans ship Tousirou and Momo... Do not get it. Honestly, I thought all these things long before I started considering I might be aro, and these should've been hints, but amatonormativity is a heckuva drug. And Digimon, Miyako's feelings cooled off once she got to know Ken (I just thought about it, but frayro?), who never showed any feelings beyond calling her by her first name. Yamato and Sora at Christmas came out of left field. I agree with Taichi being confused. Both really felt like a lot of songs from when I was growing up-- you'd have a song about anything else ever, like Yagami Junko's Purple Town or Toyama Hitomi's "SFO kara Oakland Ma-de" which are about travelling and seeing the sights in NYC and where I now live, respectively, but then they just throw in some random romo line out of the blue. I've actually really got into men's fashion/lifestyle magazines from the old country. No romo there! (Even though American men's style seems to assume attracting a female mate is the only reason a man would *bathe*...)

Since everyone's talking about the colours, I'm only guessing this site isn't grey. Aros seem to be more stuck on the colour than anyone else, and it just *has* to be the one I have the most trouble with and that makes me feel pretty rotten.

I'm gonna add some stuff for people over 20. Songs older than five minutes www So, first off, they don't really start coming into my native language until pretty recently, 90s, so I mostly have newer stuff by older artists. Not gonna sort by language, listen like I do. Himuro Kyousuke-- Bang The Beat (2011, he debuted with a band in '84) Dragon Ash-- Attention (2001) That's literally all I got in the "non-romo but also feel good" in my language and it's not for not knowing much, I'm a walking music database for anything prior to about '94. It's just the old country really loves to slip in a random romo line in a song that's otherwise about literally anything else and yeah, it's annoying. I can name a few punk/other rock songs of the 80s and 90s that don't have any romo, but they're usually more angry than "feel good" Celia Cruz-- Rie, Llora (Dunno the year but she died in '03) This is all I have in Spanish. Only the Young, Raised on Radio--Journey (1984, 1986) Kyrie-- Mr. Mister (1986. Border case depending on read of a vague "you" in chorus, but Kyrie eleison, however you spell that, is *not* a girl's name, as I'd always figured, but some kind of really old Christian chant, er, back when they had chants. I forget what it means. I'm Buddhist, which still has chants) Enjoy Yourself-- Kylie Minogue (1989. Dunno if this was released in US, but it was in Japan. If you're a guy and in macho conservative nightmare land, probably should listen to this quietly) Fly Like An Eagle-- Steve Miller Band (1976) Aquarius/Let the Sunshine In-- Fifth Dimension (1969. One of those songs that's actually two songs in one, common thing at the time. It's really the second part that's the "Feel Good") Boston-- Peace of Mind (1976) Doobie Brothers (believe it or not) --Rockin Down the Highway, Jesus is Just Alright (1972. I guess the latter one might not be everyone's cup of tea, but I don't mind it, and the song is definitely fun driving music, 3/4 time part aside, so I'm putting it here) Phil Collins-- Heat on the Street (1989. I find it kinda empowering and it's pretty optimistic) This is by no means exhaustive, but it's a start. Unfortunately, it was a pretty amatonormative period.

Q: "But don't you want somebody to share your life with?" "No, it's all mine. They can go get their own." "Every time I share something with someone, they break it. Life included." Q: "But how can you not feel love?" "Look, in this language, you can love pizza. Pick your goalpost." Q. "But starting a family..." "What's wrong with the old one?" Q. "There's gotta be someone in your future" "Right. Because I just said 'When the World is Running Down' is what I want" (reference to a song by the only good police, the band called The Police) Q. "Your other half" "Yes, I only exist to my waist. I don't walk; I float." I'm most proud of the responses to lines one and three, but I thought I'd share. Mods are welcome to move this if this isn't the right place. I'm new here.

@Jameseroo Hey, people question this stuff at any age. I'm not exactly 80, but I'm almost 40 and I'm finally undoing amatonormative brainwashing. I'm gonna be honest, I've had four relationships in my life (I'm also asexual, hence low number), two have been long term, three were abusive, three were after a meal ticket as well, ramping it up to U-Haul time real fast so they could siphon free room and board and shopping sprees off me while committing all sorts of usually racially-motivated (I'm part Asian, and yes, it's done to men, too) violence against me. I've lost multiple apartments and now live in a place where the best thing I can say about it is"I'm not homeless" and it costs about as much as a mortgage, while all my things are in storage. I say this to say that breaking up with people moving fast may have saved you from this fate. Even if we pretend it's not a giant red flag to move in after two or three months, any relationship, even platonic ones, which are, for me, where all my love is focused (I have some that are like siblings I never had), needs to work for EVERYONE involved. It wasn't working for you, so you called it off instead of painting a smile on, which just would've resulted in a way messier break up later on. My "crushes" were always "this person treats me like a human being, isn't Pig Pen, we don't interact like family, and we'd be possibly compatible based on criteria I can consciously list. IT MUST BE LOVE!!" And only once did any (non-romantic, natch, though I didn't realise that then) fondness on my end intersect with having a relationship. All of my pairings have been based on "they express interest in me and I am lonely and programmed to think AlOnE iS a FaTe WoRsE tHaN dEaTh uwu" and also hadn't really realised living alone means no one can hurt you or force you to only like or do whatever they want you to. I can read and watch TV in my native language if I want, etc. There's no one way to be aro, which is why I'm still sorting it out. (Er, not that I've been thinking about it for more than a year or really exploring it for over a month) but whatever it means to you, I've already learned by being 957 other oppressed, ostracised things... Being part of a demograph is neither good nor bad. It just IS. Not everything has to fall into a "pure and wholesome" / "absolutely bad and wrong" binary. What led me to the phase of actually seeking resources and discussion as I am now was learning about amatonormativity. I actually read up about it on Tumbler. I don't quite have a name for exactly *how* I'm aro yet, but I know there's nothing wrong with being whatever arospec orientation people who feel like me are called. It's no more wrong than me being mixed, or an immigrant,or a non-native English speaker or any of that. Being aro is like that, it's something that just is. AND THE SAME GOES FOR YOU. IT'S NOT BAD. IT'S NOT WRONG. IT JUST IS AND IT'S VALID. OK?

I wasn't gonna comment since I'm also ace (under the "does not experience" definition. If cupiosexual is a word, that's where I sit because I can enjoy the act under specific conditions of "I feel safe with this guy, he is not ableist, fatphobic, is not after the money I don't even have a lot of/is not using me for a meal ticket, is not looking for an Asian body to colonise, is not transphobic, does not hate the hearing impaired, does not One Drop Rule me to whatever's currently convenient, does not see my being an immigrant or non-native speaker as a prooooooblem, does not express any other racism, respects me being Buddhist, being in social work, and is anti-bigotry in general" which, really, this is America. It's like asking for a ski resort in Miami) But @NotHeartless's description, limit the partner to male and the hugging and cuddling stuff, turn way up (no kissing, though. Never liked that beyond peck on the cheek) and that's exactly what I want. In two partners would be great, but, skiing in Miami. So, in the end, I get a lot of aroallo pain. And of course, we've been so pushed out of things like having groups at LGBT centres thanks to amatonormative respectability politics (which there's a lot of weirdness and arophobia around NSA/ONS) we're all islands. Also, @NotHeartless how do you call what you want? Because the read I get off QPRs is not like that. You're the first not-me person I've seen express that. How do you frame the wanting the relationship part of it? I'm leaning towards homoalterous for myself, but I'm pretty darn new to shucking my amatonormative brainwashing and realising "romantic attraction is it's own thing, not they expressed interest and I'm lonely and not repulsed by them so that must be compatibility" or "nice and I really enjoy their company, and this doesn't feel familial and we're both single and are compatible in orientation and other criteria, also their looks/hygiene/etc are not repulsive. This must be romantic and sexual attraction" I used to skate by on "don't like mushy stuff" for romantic, also. Sorry if I'm glutting up the thread since I can't speak to the topic at hand. Just, never seen anyone else say some of these things ever. And I'm losing my hair and starting to wrinkle, so first time ever for a good few decades of life, here.

It's not necessarily sexual as a force of nature, just in Western culture. I'm assuming yours is a Western one, but I just mean that it's not a innate and unfailing human thing to find it sexual, but a cultural judgement whether it is or not. Even some European cultures didn't always consider it so. Ancient Greece had public bathing like my old country still does, but I think it was a habitual part of life, not a nice relaxing vacation. I have no idea about modern Greece. Bathhouses where they exist in the US seem to be sexual (or at least they were in Los Angeles) but again, culture dependent and not *innate* Point made.

Again, hot as possible. At the moment I live in a place I'm literally allergic to because Air BnB has displaced most of the city, and holy cow does near-boiling water feel good on hives. That being said, thanks to nerve problems, I already know I'm prone to not being able to tell how hot the water is until I'm injured, so I consciously add some cold in. Doesn't feel as good, but just to be safe.

My home life is garbage, but actually I'm technically in one of my dream fields. Social work. Though you're often contending with an environment that views the people we serve as "inferior." I've recently thought, what with gentrification choking us all, "what if I'd become a financial advisor (etc)" Not for me. I'm not that type of person. Anything better would be me owning a radio station that plays '60s-'90s music from anywhere in the world in any language all together because segregation needs to die in a fire and it's not like it's untranslated stories (DJs would speak English because US, widest reach), a complementary AM station for early recorded popular music through 1950s, a complementary TV station because we all miss MTV, and profit would fund the buying up of all these luxury apartments that are just Air BnB fronts and artificially creating unlivable markets, and turn them into pleasant and affordable accommodations for at-risk and uncared for populations, like queer people who are not youth and non-citizen immigrants, etc. But that takes a lot of money to start up...

This is something that's taken on new meaning for me since transitioning (to male) If transphobia weren't really a thing, I wouldn't mind being naked in a venue where people just are. A venue where it's appropriate. Old country still has public bathing. Parents also do the logical thing and bathe with their small kids instead of washing them while being fully clothed, getting soaked, and who knows what they're thinking. Keep in mind, onsen and stuff is all gender-segregated. I wouldn't care, but thanks to misogyny, most women probably wouldn't feel safe. But being trans in a bigoted world (thanks, Europe) means it's just not *safe* for me. Gym locker rooms and showers, onsen, etc., not safe. So I have no real *internal* problem with it, but unfortunately, if I don't externally stay the heck away from stuff like that, I might wind up dead (and only close personal relations would care because I'm Asian and trans male. The Web, news, and even Trans Day of Remembrance wouldn't)