cute kitty Meow! Mewo! Posted November 24, 2016 Share Posted November 24, 2016 yeah "nice guy" is like. a meme or whatever, not the literal words. it refers to people who actively act "nice" but in a way that sets off red flags every three minutes, or who manages to fool you into thinking he's safe until he slips you roofies. actual nice human beings, on the other hand, gal or guy, are totes cool peeps and good to have around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmbo Posted December 6, 2016 Share Posted December 6, 2016 I made a post about romantic zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cute kitty Meow! Mewo! Posted December 10, 2016 Share Posted December 10, 2016 I've been romantic zoned before lol. it sucks! I just wanna be friends! hehehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meesemouse Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 @Holmbo @cute kitty Meow! Mewo! I feel you guys on that, why does just being nice sometimes get confused for flirting which just ends up in a huge mess of confusion and me having to awkwardly explain that no, I'm not into you, or anyone else for that matter haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace of Amethysts Posted January 1, 2017 Share Posted January 1, 2017 On 03/06/2016 at 11:40 PM, aussiekirkland said: I absolutely despise the concept of the friend zone. If I hear anyone call themselves friendzoned they can consider themselves unfriended in my books. This. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 As far as I understand it (from browsing far too long on stupid subreddits), the concept of the friend-zone also includes the woman noticing that her male “friend” desires a romantic relationship with her. She then tries to gain something from it by manipulating him and fanning his hopes that romance is in his reach. Sadly, the people who believe that the theory of the “friend-zone” has explanatory power are not clear if this a conscious decision or just something she instinctively does. Of course with aro-style thinking, I don't see the problem. Grey Worm says “[Do you want to] fight and die for masters who would never fight and die for you?”. Well, I don't. So in this sense it seems natural to me that I ask somebody for help who already wanted and got help from me (proportionally). If somebody tried to friend-zone me, as defined above, I would soon notice this asymmetry. Of course, I don't have a problem with such an asymmetry per se, but there should be a reasonable explanation for it. I wonder how common friend-zoning behavior is? Such manipulative women are a pop culture trope, but personally I've never met one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted February 4, 2017 Share Posted February 4, 2017 double post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 On 6/9/2016 at 11:30 AM, Cassiopeia said: But what does wanting kids have to do with romantic love? Wanting kids is a rational decision based on multiple factors, and romantic love is something people can't help feeling or not feeling. Speaking as someone who really strongly wants kids, it's not a rational thing for me. It really is a deep internal longing. I see kids and I think "oh, I wish you were mine". I feel like if I never had kids, my life would be incomplete. I really think that it is a biological urge for many people, on par with wanting a romantic partner (or stronger for some people - there are plenty of single alloromantic people who are OK with not having romance but want a kid so much that they'll adopt or use assisted reproduction to get one). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmbo Posted February 5, 2017 Share Posted February 5, 2017 On 2017-02-03 at 6:01 PM, DeltaV said: As far as I understand it (from browsing far too long on stupid subreddits), the concept of the friend-zone also includes the woman noticing that her male “friend” desires a romantic relationship with her. She then tries to gain something from it by manipulating him and fanning his hopes that romance is in his reach. Sadly, the people who believe that the theory of the “friend-zone” has explanatory power are not clear if this a conscious decision or just something she instinctively does. Of course with aro-style thinking, I don't see the problem. Grey Worm says “[Do you want to] fight and die for masters who would never fight and die for you?”. Well, I don't. So in this sense it seems natural to me that I ask somebody for help who already wanted and got help from me (proportionally). If somebody tried to friend-zone me, as defined above, I would soon notice this asymmetry. Of course, I don't have a problem with such an asymmetry per se, but there should be a reasonable explanation for it. I wonder how common friend-zoning behavior is? Such manipulative women are a pop culture trope, but personally I've never met one. I believe that this puts the finger on something that actually exist but in a warped way. I think many people who are in a "friendzone" actually believe there is a way they can get to the "romozone" if they just put enough effort into it. THEY KNOW how great a romantic relationship would be between them and the other person and they feel like if they just could get the other person to realize this fact they would be able to have it. So it's not that the other person is misleading them (deliberately or not) but that they read every positive interaction between them as one step closer to romance. Am I making any sense about this? Of course the whole thing is pretty ridiculous because it seems to be depending on that the "friendzoned" person has either not actually asked the other person if they want a romantic relationship or they have asked them but for some reason don't trust their answer. The third option is that the other person has said they might want a romantic relationship but they don't actually want it. But that's not friendzoning, that's just lying. It's funny that you brought up Greyworm as a teacher of this particular topic because I've always felt like Ser Jorah and Dany's relationship is the best example of a friendzone/romozone relationship. Both of them care for each other and don't wish each other harm but neither really gets what they actually want from the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confirmed Bachelor Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 I didn't think friendzone had anything to do with being friends with someone. I thought it meant someone wanted to be with someone who didn't want to be with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hey you in the corner Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 Had to throw this in here because, well, Morpheus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted February 7, 2017 Share Posted February 7, 2017 On 2/5/2017 at 7:54 PM, Holmbo said: The third option is that the other person has said they might want a romantic relationship but they don't actually want it. But that's not friendzoning, that's just lying. There still is a problem with your argument. Virtually nobody says “I want a romantic relationship with you.”, everything in the early phases is based on hints and signals, which are ambiguous. So friend-zoning behavior may exist, the concept is not internally contradictory. I just find it very implausible that it is even remotely as common as suggested by popular culture. Mainly because such a manipulation seems to be very cost-ineffective. Who would engage in such a complex manipulation for minor favors which are common and usual between friends? And at the point when the manipulation would become “lucrative”, like one-sidedly accepting very expensive gifts, it is an unspoken agreement that the only explanation for such behavior must be romantic. It will be very difficult to plausibly deny that one innocently just thought this would be a normal part of friendship. On 2/5/2017 at 7:54 PM, Holmbo said: It's funny that you brought up Greyworm as a teacher of this particular topic because I've always felt like Ser Jorah and Dany's relationship is the best example of a friendzone/romozone relationship. Both of them care for each other and don't wish each other harm but neither really gets what they actually want from the other. Yes, this is a great example. But earlier the relationship is not so nice, he's a spy for Varys – how can you best explain such a change of mind, that he starts to serve Dany earnestly? Well, romantic love... explains everything! What would writers do without it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmbo Posted February 11, 2017 Share Posted February 11, 2017 On 2017-02-07 at 11:12 PM, DeltaV said: There still is a problem with your argument. Virtually nobody says “I want a romantic relationship with you.”, everything in the early phases is based on hints and signals, which are ambiguous. So friend-zoning behavior may exist, the concept is not internally contradictory. I just find it very implausible that it is even remotely as common as suggested by popular culture. Mainly because such a manipulation seems to be very cost-ineffective. Sure in the earlier phases there is ambiguity. But as I understand "friend-zoning" it is that two people are friends but the other person wants romance. If that person has never made an explicit romantic or sexual move (which I think announcing their feelings is one option) then how can the person of their attraction be expected to make explicit that they don't want that? Is it up to every person to announce to everyone they're friends with that "just so you know, romance is off the table here" ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 On 2/11/2017 at 2:52 AM, Holmbo said: Sure in the earlier phases there is ambiguity. But as I understand "friend-zoning" it is that two people are friends but the other person wants romance. If that person has never made an explicit romantic or sexual move (which I think announcing their feelings is one option) then how can the person of their attraction be expected to make explicit that they don't want that? Is it up to every person to announce to everyone they're friends with that "just so you know, romance is off the table here" ? A lot of people suggest that by saying things like "I'm so glad we're friends" or "I think of you as a brother/sister". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted February 14, 2017 Share Posted February 14, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 On 2/11/2017 at 9:52 AM, Holmbo said: Sure in the earlier phases there is ambiguity. But as I understand "friend-zoning" it is that two people are friends but the other person wants romance. If that person has never made an explicit romantic or sexual move (which I think announcing their feelings is one option) then how can the person of their attraction be expected to make explicit that they don't want that? Is it up to every person to announce to everyone they're friends with that "just so you know, romance is off the table here" ? The question is what friendzoning means. The way you define it, the “friendzoner” is not to blame at all, of course. But from what I've read, the term is often understood differently, as a kind of manipulation. We should not conflate the two concepts, so I'm going to use two different new words for them. For the concept described by your definition, let's use the word “tf-zone” (true friend zone), that is Alice tf-zones Bob: Bob wants a romantic relationship with Alice but sends only subtle romantic signals to her. Alice misses those signals and mistakes Bob's intentions. She genuinely likes to be Bob's friend but does not want a romantic relationship with him. If Bob finally is explicit to her about his intentions, Alice truthfully says that she just wanted friendship with him and he misunderstood her. and define “mpf-zone” (manipulative pseudo-friend zone) as Alice mpf-zones Bob: Bob wants a romantic relationship with Alice but sends only subtle romantic signals to her. Alice knows about Bob's intentions because she correctly understands his subtle romantic signals and now deliberately sends subtle romantic signals herself to manipulate Bob for her personal gain. If Bob finally is explicit to her about his intentions, Alice lies that she always just wanted friendship with him and he misunderstood her. I haven't seen any evidence that mpf-zoning is common. And do some people, who find themselves in the tf-zone and get frustrated at some point, wrongly believe that they were mpf-zoned? You bet! So I would say: Don't mpf-zone someone Don't blame people for tf-zoning you Don't complain about being mpf-zoned without strong evidence You can avoid being mpf-zoned and tf-zoned by being more explicit about your feelings Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holmbo Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 @DeltaV We do have the well known concept in pop culture of women flirting with men to get them to do things for them. I'm not sure I've seen that in real life but it's probably fairly common. After all there's not really much different between flirting and just being charming in general. Some people just like to be flirty too. So I suppose if someone flirted with another person but didn't really mean it, people might consider if friendzoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
omitef Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 @DeltaV I'll admit, I've MPF-zoned people due to my own toxic masculinity and insecurity, back when I was still convinced that I needed a romantic partner to prove my social worth (as a mentally ill person, as a queer person, and as a guy). I've also been, and allowed myself, to be MPF-zoned by people I've cared deeply about (not romantically), because I believed I deserved it. I thought that love was about self-sacrifice. I thought you were supposed to allow the people you love, to destroy you, and vice-versa. Needless to say, my mindset was fucked up and I don't think the people who MPF-d me shared the same mentality. I think they were just immature. The MPFing happened in middle school, where people haven't really grown out of their "the-world-revolves-around-me" mentality. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted February 21, 2017 Share Posted February 21, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 @Quasar.w hey, you seem to be the first to notice the QM reference! Great. On 2/21/2017 at 5:01 AM, Holmbo said: @DeltaV We do have the well known concept in pop culture of women flirting with men to get them to do things for them. I'm not sure I've seen that in real life but it's probably fairly common. After all there's not really much different between flirting and just being charming in general. Some people just like to be flirty too. So I suppose if someone flirted with another person but didn't really mean it, people might consider if friendzoning. we should definitely give them the benefit of the doubt if it's a normal favor they get. And what would be the solution anyway? Demanding women to speak like the computer on the Enterprise or being grumpy? Yeah, perhaps then nobody would interpret it as a romantic signal. But something like in this ten year old vintage TYT video (hello 240p, haven't met for a long time) is just manipulation, pure and simple: There is no reason to buy a strange woman shoes aside from: hoping for a romantic relationship charity reasons The experiment would have been funny with me. “You want me to pay for your shoes?? Uhm... what is wrong with you?” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I'm absolutely baffled that she managed to do it so easily. That he asked her for number later doesn't surprise me at all. Why do you want to buy a random strange woman shoes... Why? I just don't understand it. It's seen as sexual by Cenk (the guy in the video), but I doubt it is. Who would go through all the hassle for a very intense, yes, but also VERY fleeting pleasurable experience, which maybe, maybe, MAYBE happens at some point down the line? This doesn't seem to be an effective strategy to me. So I guess, it must be romantic. But this is just a random woman, you don't know anything about her. Whatever! I avoid paying for someone and not wanting my money back (I actually got snarky hostile remarks because of this). But I think it's not seen as just something friendly. Still if I did, there wouldn't be any romance or ulterior motives. It's an extremely weird cultural norm that it seems normal for men to have to pay their way into a relationship (or for them to demand they get a foot in the door by doing it). Still this woman (Ana) is not an extremely naive and confused aro, she knows all the romo rules and she abused them with intent, that's manipulation. I still don't really understand the “other” 99%, so with this warning: Personally I think you are right to be paranoid if guys pay for you and don't want their money back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Del Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmFairy Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 I friend zoned someone before and then they never want to speak to me again, more than once I am afraid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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