Allo Aros

[LunarSeas]

So, I decided to make a topic, because frustration and maybe y'all have some ideas. I also felt like I was almost thread-jacking, and...yeah. 

 

How on earth does one come out as aro when you're allosexual? It's not the same as just "not interested," because, damn it, I am interested in sex and physical affection. One of my first google searches on allo aros hit on an AVEN thread where the first response to the idea was "omg heartless monsters who use people for sex!!!" Even worse was when I hit frayromantic, and it's rather descriptive of me, but the first opinion was "that's everyone, romance fades for all" and...it's more than that....ugh. 

 

I'm not heartless. I just don't want to live with someone forever just for the privilege of sexual contact. And I really want sexual contact. I know there's no easy way to do it, but AAAGGGHHHH, this feels impossible to navigate and I feel like I'm making no sense at all. Dx

[Natkat]

You are defintly not heartless. Aven is pretty horrible for arosexuals. Not like everyone there is bad but there are alot of clueless people writting bad stuff and can do it pretty freely because aros dont really have any safe space in the first place. I have reporter a few of the comments when I feel it became too much but As mention its very difficult to feel safe when the same type of people can run the show, definding aro sexuals experience without even listening to them.

 

personally I found out because I head someone mentioned wtf-romantic and then I began to seach for it and found aromanticsm. 

Before that Had a long period if time where I thought I might have comitmentphobia because I always backed out when relationships started to get serious, and had this want but dont want conflict" The sad thing is I did feel like I got to know about aromantic long before that but my resources were bad, the first site I saw it mentioned said something about "it was unknown whenever sexual aro sexuals existed" and the first time I debated it I was told that "people like that are just called players"

 

coming out as aro is pretty difficult no matter what. For those of my friend who already know me and also already know my sexual orientation its more easy compared with those who arnt familiar with the term at all. I had good and bad experience. One thing is try to take it slow and somehow "relateable" so the person Might get a chance to understand. 

 

[LunarSeas]

Yeah, I didn't even know romantic orientations were considered a thing until I made some asexual/graysexual friends through my online spiritual communities. Being heterosexual also gives me a huge feeling of "outsider" to the lgbtq community, not just because there are actual people within that community that deny I exist, but, well, I've considered myself "straight" my whole life. So my context for this is really different from others I've read. 

I've always had lgbtq friends, so I being part of the community would seem natural for me, but the aro hate I've seen.....it makes me nervous to go on and ID as any kind of queer - though in the plainest sense of the word, I am. 

 

If I want to have any sexual or sensual contact in the future, and I do, I'll have to talk to whoever I want that with. This will need to come up. And while I know there are some guys who are truly ok with "casual sex" (not just say they are), I also want to be treated with respect, not like a slut. And that's exceedingly rare. 

[Saaaro]

TL;DR: mostly incoherent rambling. Also same. 

 

I get pretty frustrated with comments from ace-aros, even on here, that talk about aromanticism and asexuality like they're the same thing.  There's do much in the aro experience and advice threads that doesn't apply to arosexuals at all. Like no, I can't just avoid people/relationships entirely and still be happy. 

 

I'm super privileged in my close friends, I've been able to come out to most of them in a pretty low key way. Just discussing what aromanticism means to me and what it is I think I want from relationships, which is something we've always talked about with each other anyway. But I've got no idea how to come out to my wider community, I haven't even talked to my parents. I just don't like the idea of coming out being a big deal and prefer it to be a non event, just work it into conversation as if it's perfectly normal (because spoiler alert, it is). I guess that's mostly not liking the assumption that everyone is cis, het, het until otherwise declared. 

 

Personally I don't currently want "casual sex" (not that I think it's a bad thing by any means). I want (and possibly have?!) a non romantic relationship. Friendship, companionship, sensual and sexual contact without any romantic ties. For a while this had me wondering if I was really aromantic. Because does this romance thing that I'm not wanting actually look like. But after talking to a friend I realised it was the 2 becoming one I don't want.  The sharing the same bed forever and having kids together and slowly becoming half of a pair. I could consider buying a house with a friend/partner, but never sharing a room (I tried it for 3 months and it was a nightmare).

[LunarSeas]

Yeah, room sharing is ridiculous. Even if I was to ever share a house with a friend or two, I'd need, well, a house, and my own rooms. 

I'm like a cat, I swear. Sometimes OMG I NEED SNUGGLES RIGHT NOW and most times I want to be left to my own devices with the option to engage if I wanted.

 

Probably why i liked living in a tiny apartment in New Orleans. It was MINE, I had a lock if I wanted the world shut out, but there was usually someone hanging around on the stoop or a neighbor's back yard if I did want to socialize. And if not that, or it was night, there was a bar in walking distance. 

 

I've never had issues with casual sex, I actually used to feel guilty that it didn't bother me, which is so so dumb. Fucking amanormativity.

[Mark]

On 9/1/2016 at 2:15 AM, LunarSeas said:

How on earth does one come out as aro when you're allosexual? It's not the same as just "not interested," because, damn it, I am interested in sex and physical affection.

I think I know what you mean.

I commented elsewhere recently that most literature about aromance appears to have been written from an aro ace (possibly also touch repulsed) POV.

 

On 9/1/2016 at 2:15 AM, LunarSeas said:

One of my first google searches on allo aros hit on an AVEN thread where the first response to the idea was "omg heartless monsters who use people for sex!!!" Even worse was when I hit frayromantic, and it's rather descriptive of me, but the first opinion was "that's everyone, romance fades for all" and...it's more than that....ugh. 

AVEN is intended primarily as an ace resource. Never heard of frayromantic.
 

On 9/1/2016 at 2:15 AM, LunarSeas said:

I'm not heartless. I just don't want to live with someone forever just for the privilege of sexual contact. And I really want sexual contact. I know there's no easy way to do it, but AAAGGGHHHH, this feels impossible to navigate and I feel like I'm making no sense at all. Dx

Guessing you want is at least one sexual friendship.

 

On 9/1/2016 at 7:21 PM, LunarSeas said:

Being heterosexual also gives me a huge feeling of "outsider" to the lgbtq community, not just because there are actual people within that community that deny I exist, but, well, I've considered myself "straight" my whole life.

Being aro is often a problem here, even if you are not heterosexual...

 

On 9/1/2016 at 7:21 PM, LunarSeas said:

If I want to have any sexual or sensual contact in the future, and I do, I'll have to talk to whoever I want that with. This will need to come up. And while I know there are some guys who are truly ok with "casual sex" (not just say they are), I also want to be treated with respect, not like a slut. And that's exceedingly rare. 

I have heard of allosexuals describing that part of "casual sex" can be a role play of being in a relationship. Which is an obvious complication for aros.

 

On 9/2/2016 at 8:03 PM, Saaaro said:

I get pretty frustrated with comments from ace-aros, even on here, that talk about aromanticism and asexuality like they're the same thing.  There's do much in the aro experience and advice threads that doesn't apply to arosexuals at all. Like no, I can't just avoid people/relationships entirely and still be happy.

In terms of active members aro aces appear most common here. Though I suspect that aro heteros are the most common aros...

 

On 9/2/2016 at 8:03 PM, Saaaro said:

 For a while this had me wondering if I was really aromantic. Because does this romance thing that I'm not wanting actually look like. But after talking to a friend I realised it was the 2 becoming one I don't want.  The sharing the same bed forever and having kids together and slowly becoming half of a pair. I could consider buying a house with a friend/partner, but never sharing a room (I tried it for 3 months and it was a nightmare).

There is the term "nesting behaviour" which rather more concisely describes this. A part of this you didn't mention would be merging/entangling personal finances. The whole "becoming half of a pair" isn't always slow. Personally I very much dislike the term "other half", who'd want to be half a person?

[Saaaro]

4 hours ago, Mark said:

There is the term "nesting behaviour" which rather more concisely describes this. A part of this you didn't mention would be merging/entangling personal finances.

I would actually be totally ok with this with the right person, just like buying a house with someone. It's a massive commitment obviously but commitment isn't what I'm trying to avoid. It's committed close proximity? Or something like that...

[LunarSeas]

Frayromantic is sort of greyro, but more like, you get that initial crush feel (I thought of it as the "new relationship energy" I was told about) but it fades after being in the relationship. It's not quite lithro, because I don't mind it being reciprocated, at least not at first.....idk. It takes me very little time to lose that glow, no matter how I started feeling.

 

It's a lot to sort out, but I'm still certain that the whole soul mate life long love whatever ain't me. 

[cute kitty Meow! Mewo!]

for me I am demiromantic, and greysexual. TBH even though there have been times I've felt attraction... it's never really changed how i felt about relationships. the idea of a partner is something that sounds agreeable to have, but that I also feel no need for, that I can be satisfied and happy on my own. 

 

I know you said that you don't like the idea of pairing with a person for the rest of your life, and me on the other hand I'm somewhat tempted by that idea, so we are different there. but for me tbh I felt kind of similar to you, or well at least, I felt frustrated both by the idea of never having sex, but also about the idea of necessarily having sex. both seem kind of... not me, and I can't figure out why.  I guess, I just don't feel comfortable committing one way or the other.

 

[cute kitty Meow! Mewo!]

I guess, for me I want a platonic companion who lives with me, more like a partner than a friend. but, for others, someone who is kind of, important as a long-term friend, but who lives apart. A companion/partner/qpr who, well, they have sex together, and probably spend time together as friends too, but they aren't "really" partners. and I'm sure there are many other ways to establish long-term trusting sexual relationships without it being so dedicated on the partnership end of the bargain. 

[LunarSeas]

I can almost see myself sharing rent on a house with a platonic friend before a sexual partner, honestly. Not that the two couldn't be the same person, but experience tells me that's unlikely. In sharing living space, I just know that i absolutely need a room or two that are mine and only mine. I don't mind being with people, but not indefinitely. I must recharge in solitude. Romance kind of says that's not desirable. xP

 

The sexual relationships I honestly remember fondly have been friends I just happened to have sex with. But it was also treated as something that we'd "grow out of" past college, and we'd go off and find regular romantic partners. I felt bad about not really wanting to. That just hanging out with a friend, watching movies or cooking or doing whatever, and if we felt like it, anything on the spectrum from cuddling to sex was fine FOR NOW, but when we became adults, we'd be immature doing the same thing. Fucking why?? 

[Mark]

3 hours ago, LunarSeas said:

I can almost see myself sharing rent on a house with a platonic friend before a sexual partner, honestly. Not that the two couldn't be the same person, but experience tells me that's unlikely. In sharing living space, I just know that i absolutely need a room or two that are mine and only mine. I don't mind being with people, but not indefinitely. I must recharge in solitude. Romance kind of says that's not desirable. xP

I suspect that many alloromantics can do themselves harm by denying that they need space.

 

3 hours ago, LunarSeas said:

The sexual relationships I honestly remember fondly have been friends I just happened to have sex with. But it was also treated as something that we'd "grow out of" past college, and we'd go off and find regular romantic partners. I felt bad about not really wanting to. That just hanging out with a friend, watching movies or cooking or doing whatever, and if we felt like it, anything on the spectrum from cuddling to sex was fine FOR NOW, but when we became adults, we'd be immature doing the same thing. Fucking why?? 

Wanting to ride the relationship escalator is seen as a sign of "maturity". As is also implied by terms like "settling down".
With sexual friendships (even non-monogamous ones) sort of tolerated, but discouraged, amongst young people.

To allo aro people these kind of relationships are far superior to any romantic relationship. (Even for aros who can tolerate being in a romantic relationship.)

[Natkat]

On 4/9/2016 at 5:54 PM, LunarSeas said:

I can almost see myself sharing rent on a house with a platonic friend before a sexual partner, honestly. Not that the two couldn't be the same person, but experience tells me that's unlikely. In sharing living space, I just know that i absolutely need a room or two that are mine and only mine. I don't mind being with people, but not indefinitely. I must recharge in solitude. Romance kind of says that's not desirable. xP

 

The sexual relationships I honestly remember fondly have been friends I just happened to have sex with. But it was also treated as something that we'd "grow out of" past college, and we'd go off and find regular romantic partners. I felt bad about not really wanting to. That just hanging out with a friend, watching movies or cooking or doing whatever, and if we felt like it, anything on the spectrum from cuddling to sex was fine FOR NOW, but when we became adults, we'd be immature doing the same thing. Fucking why?? 

 

I have problems with this as well. I don't mind living with people and at some point I prefer to live with at least 1 person. BUT i need enough space for this to be an option and not having alot of money sure also mean I can't live with people and still feel I have enough space (unless I move FAR away from the city or live with my parents) 

 

when I was studying in a bording school we all lived together at the school but I had a single room. too me it was perfect because I could easly visit the other people or have sleepovers if I wanted and still be on my own when needed. My father also lived in the area so if I felt too stressed out I could visit him (and he lives in the middle of nowhere so its very relaxing)

-

most of my sexual experience been pretty simular, and yes I also feel like "its fine for now but when we get older/when we get into a romantic relationship then its over. I am not sure why there are this type of view. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[LunarSeas]

More angst ahead. I don't know where to put this. It's almost another thread, but....eh.

 

I start to question whether I'm greyro when I look back at one particular relationship. Just, especially this one. It's confusing. Because I never met him in person, ever, but for years we were very emotionally intimate, and flirted with each other. It was often very intense with him. And I loved him. 

 

We had a falling out a few years ago, but that song came on tonight, and I thought of him, and it came flooding back. 

 

Now, it's entirely possible that the same pattern would have happened if we met or started a relationship, I'd just feel wrong and panicky. But since we didn't, I don't know. 

 

I suppose there's no solution to this, but here's an example of why sometimes I don't feel aro or greyro, because I'll be a silly git, look him up on fb and feel my heart skip a beat at his stupid handsome face. xP

[cute kitty Meow! Mewo!]

[LunarSeas]

I tend not to id with demi because I go from zero to FIFTY BILLION when it happens. Then it fades. It's so frustrating. And there doesn't seem to be a need for time invested for feelings to form. 

 

My stumbling block is when someone falls out of my normal pattern (frayromantic is very descriptive of me). Like this jerk. xP I "met" him on OpenDiary (showing my age again, anyone even remember that??) and we were online and phone friends for over a decade, during which I'd have like....attacks of intense romantic and/or passionate feelings for him. If we had ever been in the same area of the country, maybe I'd know if those feelings would fade like they have for every other guy I lost my head over....but I'll likely never know. 

 

 

 

 

[aussiekirkland]

On 03/09/2016 at 3:03 AM, Saaaro said:

I get pretty frustrated with comments from ace-aros, even on here, that talk about aromanticism and asexuality like they're the same thing.  There's do much in the aro experience and advice threads that doesn't apply to arosexuals at all. Like no, I can't just avoid people/relationships entirely and still be happy.

I get how this can be pretty unrelatable for arosexuals (and romantic asexuals, in the case of tumblr) which is why I tend to specify that my posts are of an aro ace perspective but in my experience a lot of romo aces won't do the same, often sounding like romanticism is essential and the likes.

 

I don't know what my point was but I think it would be easier for everyone if they would start these discussions with "as an *insert orientation*" and/or end it with "these are my personal experiences as an *insert orientation*" because all of us have different perspectives which can be vastly different between arosexuals, aro aces and romo aces.

[Mark]

On 02/09/2016 at 8:03 PM, Saaaro said:

I get pretty frustrated with comments from ace-aros, even on here, that talk about aromanticism and asexuality like they're the same thing.  There's do much in the aro experience and advice threads that doesn't apply to arosexuals at all. Like no, I can't just avoid people/relationships entirely and still be happy. 

I'm not sure this applies to all aro aces. No reason why they cannot be social or desire "relationships", just ones which are free of romance and sex...
Many romantic coded things are not sexual and it seems fairly random what aros might like in this respect.
 

On 16/10/2016 at 8:52 AM, aussiekirkland said:

I don't know what my point was but I think it would be easier for everyone if they would start these discussions with "as an *insert orientation*" and/or end it with "these are my personal experiences as an *insert orientation*" because all of us have different perspectives which can be vastly different between arosexuals, aro aces and romo aces.

On this platform it's usually fairly obvious what someone's romantic and sexual orientations are.
Whereas with tumblr and facebook this tends not to be the case.

[Natkat]

On 16/10/2016 at 9:52 AM, aussiekirkland said:

I get how this can be pretty unrelatable for arosexuals (and romantic asexuals, in the case of tumblr) which is why I tend to specify that my posts are of an aro ace perspective but in my experience a lot of romo aces won't do the same, often sounding like romanticism is essential and the likes.

 

I don't know what my point was but I think it would be easier for everyone if they would start these discussions with "as an *insert orientation*" and/or end it with "these are my personal experiences as an *insert orientation*" because all of us have different perspectives which can be vastly different between arosexuals, aro aces and romo aces.

 

I try as much as posible to say "from my point of view" or "I experience it this way" to make it open that for others it can be very different experience. I think its relevant specially when we talk about aromanticism because while we have alot in common there are alot of different ways we may experience it, and I do think I fall into the trap myself once in a while because I identify as non-monogamyous and aro and somethimes find it hard to seperate those things. 

I think a person who ex want a relationship has a different view than a person who want to live a single life, and a person who is Aro and very repulsed by romance may see things differently than a person who doesnt mind.

 

as mark says, a forum like this we often state our gender, and orientation so its tend to be obvious compared to IRL, but I think its still important we try to use inclusive language. there is a big differen between "aros feel like" or "is typical for an aro person to feel"

 

 

 

[aussiekirkland]

47 minutes ago, Natkat said:

I think its relevant specially when we talk about aromanticism because while we have alot in common there are alot of different ways we may experience it, and I do think I fall into the trap myself once in a while because I identify as non-monogamyous and aro and somethimes find it hard to seperate those things.

The point is is that we shouldn't have to seperate relevant parts of ourselves like that and instead specify why they're related experiences for us personally (if that makes sense?).

 

The pressure to seperate parts of ourselves feeds into erasure in my opinion.

[Mark]

5 hours ago, Natkat said:

I try as much as posible to say "from my point of view" or "I experience it this way" to make it open that for others it can be very different experience. I think its relevant specially when we talk about aromanticism because while we have alot in common there are alot of different ways we may experience it, and I do think I fall into the trap myself once in a while because I identify as non-monogamyous and aro and somethimes find it hard to seperate those things.

Somewhat understandable to confuse the two, given that mononormativity and amantonormativity are closely intertwined. (With polynormativity also seeming to be related to amantonormative ideas.)
Whilst I feel that being aro plays a part in my being disinterested and to some extent repulsed by monogamy it is certainly not the only factor.

 

5 hours ago, Natkat said:

I think a person who ex want a relationship has a different view than a person who want to live a single life, and a person who is Aro and very repulsed by romance may see things differently than a person who doesnt mind.

The presence of absence of romantic repulsion, which is in itself quite complex and multifaceted, does not imply if someone will want relationship(s) or a single life. Someone could be highly romantically repulsed whilst desiring (non romantic) relationships. Similarly it would be possible to be romantic repulsed whilst also being into things which are romantic coded.

[Natkat]

On 20/10/2016 at 2:40 PM, aussiekirkland said:

The point is is that we shouldn't have to seperate relevant parts of ourselves like that and instead specify why they're related experiences for us personally (if that makes sense?).

 

The pressure to seperate parts of ourselves feeds into erasure in my opinion.

thats also what I mean. I think me being queer, and non-monogamyous also shapes how I view aromanticism. but its only how I experience it, and while speaking for everyone I have to realise that someone is experience it differently. 

--

 

19 hours ago, Mark said:

The presence of absence of romantic repulsion, which is in itself quite complex and multifaceted, does not imply if someone will want relationship(s) or a single life. Someone could be highly romantically repulsed whilst desiring (non romantic) relationships. Similarly it would be possible to be romantic repulsed whilst also being into things which are romantic coded.

 

I didn't say that either, I was just making 2 different examples on how people could have different experience with their aromanticism. they wasnt supposed to be connected with each other.

 

[Cassiopeia]

Let's see.

Coming out as alloaro is hard, because people have some very negative stereotypes. Talking about the kind of relationships we (would like to) have is also hard, because of the same stereotypes.

I think the best way around it is choosing well how, when and to whom you come out. You have to have the right mood, enough time, and your answers ready, you have to be emotionally prepared. As with any kind of coming out I guess.

 

Its not really the fault of those aven users, if you aren't out to someone and you try to describe an alloaro person to them you get the same reactions. Its basically (internalised) amatonormativity.These stereotypes are cultural, people have grown up with them, aro, not aro, ace or gay or poly or whatever. Everyone was taught that success is settling down with someone attractive in a monogamous romantic/sexual relationship with 2.5 kids a dog and a house. People who don't end up like that are considered unhappy losers, even if they actually are happy and their 'lifestyle' is a conscious choice based on their natural needs.

 

And as far as I have seen, we aren't really fitting that 'heartless slut' stereotype everyone seem to think we are. (I don't suppose its out of spite to prove the world wrong... More like romance repulsion and not really being able to decode other people's romantic interest/advances and other things...at least it is for me.)

 

 

On 2016. 09. 03. at 4:10 PM, LunarSeas said:

I'm like a cat, I swear. Sometimes OMG I NEED SNUGGLES RIGHT NOW and most times I want to be left to my own devices with the option to engage if I wanted.

 

I'm kind of like that with sex...but my sensual drive is a lot higher than my sexual one actually, which is quite confusing to people. There so many who can't tell affection and attraction apart. I have to hold back and have to remind myself that most people read physical touch as a romantic or sexual advance even if its just a hug.

[Mark]

On 29/10/2016 at 11:52 PM, Cassiopeia said:

Its not really the fault of those aven users, if you aren't out to someone and you try to describe an alloaro person to them you get the same reactions. Its basically (internalised) amatonormativity.These stereotypes are cultural, people have grown up with them, aro, not aro, ace or gay or poly or whatever.

The primary focus of AVEN is asexuality.

With aromantic asexuals being in a minority within the asexual community. Similarly aromantics are a minority within the LGBT+ and straight communities.

 

On 29/10/2016 at 11:52 PM, Cassiopeia said:

Everyone was taught that success is settling down with someone attractive in a monogamous romantic/sexual relationship with 2.5 kids a dog and a house. People who don't end up like that are considered unhappy losers, even if they actually are happy and their 'lifestyle' is a conscious choice based on their natural needs.

Or happier than if they are doing the amantonormative thing. There often can be an attitude of "how can you know it's not for you if you've never tried it?"

[Cassiopeia]

6 hours ago, Mark said:

The primary focus of AVEN is asexuality.

With aromantic asexuals being in a minority within the asexual community. Similarly aromantics are a minority within the LGBT+ and straight communities.

 

I know. It was a reply to @Saaaro's rant about aro aces not fully understanding the alloaro perspective.

What I was trying to say is that just because someone is part of this or that  part of the alphabet soup demographic, it does not necessarily give them an insight to the perspectives and struggles of some other parts of the community. To them, asexuality and aromanticism probably is quite hard to separate. If you have no sexual or romantic attraction, you have no way of telling what goes into what category-the same way romantic sexuals quite often can't apply the split attraction model to themselves.

And being lgbtq+ does not give you an automatic cleansing from amatonormativity and/or other stereotypes, so people may have said something upsetting as well without even knowing. You have to unlearn that type of bs, but there isn't many of us to actually point it out...