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Kip

Cis Aroaces Being Less than....adequate.

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I know this is a touchy subject, but it needs to be covered.

When people are doing the Discourse™ and it's a cis aroace person, it almost ALWAYS gets ugly. I was defending the right to be in the Lgbtq+ community as long as you're not rude/transphobic etc, and I got called, by not one, but 2 cis aro aces a "nigger" a "monkey" a "queer" in an offensive way, and a fucking SLAVE. At this point in time i identify as Aro, and after telling them this they told me "I hope you get AIDS you allosexual tranny" Now I'm all for reclaiming slurs, but here's the thing: YOU CANT RECLAIM A SLUR IF YOUVE NEVER IDENTIFIED OR BEEN CALLED SAID SLUR. If cis aroace people are behaving like this, calling trans people slurs and other minorities racist thing, i do not see why they should be excluded. I'm not saying ALL cis aces should be excluded just the homophobic/transphobic and racist ones. Feel free to discuss lol

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I think you get these kind of people in any crowd, I don't think it's fair to single out cis-gendered people. I've come across horrible people regardless of their sexual or gender orientation. I think if we don't want to be treated differently depending on how we identify, no one should be.

 

People who discriminate against LGBTQ+ and other minorities are all bad people, and should not be tolerated. You are right, there is a problem. But I don't think we can draw lines between those horrible people and certain orientations (like cis people), as that leads to stereotypes, and more discrimination.

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I think its important to acknowledge the difference between the community and the demographic.

You can be part of the demographic and decide not to participate in the  community. You can be part of the demographic but be unwelcome in the community as an individual.

 

As a community we need to be quite accepting, as we get lots of people who tend to be scared, confused, traumatised, having internalised self hate, feel angry and may lash out. At this point I think the most important thing we can do as a community is trying to de-escalate the situation but also to keep our spaces safe and that sometimes means removing people who are disruptive or harmful to others. People who are a negative presence in these spaces come in all shapes, colours, sizes, orientations and genders BUT are removed because they are behaving in an unacceptable way.

 

I think we should not punish an entire orientation/gender for people's individual bullshit. Doing that is basically the same cathegory as when homophobes go on and on about how all gays are child molesters. That is beyond negative stereotypes and it will not be tolerated in any LGBTQ+ community. 

 

I think it takes some maturity and you also have to be in a right emotional state to deal with abusive people without going down to their level. Take no shit, but do no harm. Not everyone is ready to be that person, and just because you are part of the demographic, you don't necessarily have to engage with every hater. You have to learn to choose you battles, there are some people who just pointless to argue with.

Walking away, blocking hate or blacklisting topics is necessary in some cases and totally understandable. There are conversations where there is nothing to be said or its best for your health and sanity to just walk away. No comment is a comment.

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The other guys made some great points. Bigoted assholes come in all shapes and sizes and it isn't fair to blame cis aroaces for all bigotry in the discourse.

 

But seriously those individuals are trash and should definitely not be allowed in any safe spaces (LGBT or otherwise) but that has nothing to do with their cis aroace status.

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You just need to ask who is attacking others based on labels and ethnicity and disability etc and who isn't. It's annoying to hear about cis aroaces letting down the rest of this group (i.e. me and some others) and they should be banned like anyone else who spews hate speech.

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It's just that cis aroaces need to remember that even though they're lgbt it doesn't mean they can't be asses. I asked them WHY they thought that was appropriate and their response was basically "Meh. We're lgbt so we can say queer and tranny and fag." They need to start treading more carefully, especially around those with anxiety/depression/bpd etc. and those who have been abused. I'm not saying all cis aces are evil, just that they need to get their act together, and that if you use the "I'm lgbt I can do this, this and this," and that if you are offensive in that way you need to leave/try and stop being so ew before you screech "IM QUEER" at the top of your lungs.

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8 minutes ago, Kip said:

It's just that cis aroaces need to remember that even though they're lgbt it doesn't mean they can't be asses.

It's not just cis aroaces that need to remember that. It's everyone. Doesn't matter what group you're a part of. It doesn't matter whether you're talking to people within or outside of the group. Anyone is capable of being an asshole. How privileged you are in society -whether you're highly privileged or not- has no bearing on how much of an asshole you are. No one is exempt from being an asshole. No one.

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4 hours ago, Kip said:

It's just that cis aroaces need to remember that even though they're lgbt it doesn't mean they can't be asses. I asked them WHY they thought that was appropriate and their response was basically "Meh. We're lgbt so we can say queer and tranny and fag."

4

I heard the same from gay people who thought "I cant be transphobic because im gay/part of the lgbt comunity" 

or "im gay I cant be jerks toward bisexauls" or the worst "im an ally so its okay for me" but it's wrong obviously you can be a minority and a jerk to someone else even someone who belongs to the same minority group as yourself.

 

I agree with Cassiopeia So regardless of how much a jerk they are they are still part of the lgbt, However as individial jerks they should defently be banned or excluded from these group where they behave so badly and makes other unconfortable.

I do not know where this took place but if you have the chance to complain to the leader and get them banned them please do. if it happents online you may also be able to use screenshots to prove what they had said.  

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tbh, if someone behaves like that in an irl queer space, they are also pretty likely to be sent home to calm down by the nearest bouncer

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@Kip 

Fun fact: did you know that James Baldwin once refused to call himself gay because he felt that it was a "white identity?"

 

Anyway, though I haven't ever been part of the Discourse (by which I'm assuming you mean tumblr aro/ace discource), I agree that intersectionality is seriously lacking within the mainstream LGBT+ community. And I completely agree that people shouldn't try to reclaim a slur that hasn't been used against them.

 

However, I think the notion of anyone being "excluded" from the community is ridiculous from a pragmatic standpoint. How does a problematic figure even get excluded in the first place? Who is enforcing this rule? What happens when people within the community disagree? Does the community split into smaller groups, based on which problematic figures they support? Who is problematic enough to count as a problematic figure? Who is popular enough to count as a problematic figure? And also, considering that every single person has some form of privilege, and that everyone is bound to make a grievous error at some point in their lives because of their privilege, how many times would the community have to split?  

 

Pragmatism aside, I want to point out that membership within the LGBT+ community is not based on any other factor, besides the fact that you are LGBT+, assuming that LGBT+ community simply means everyone in the world who is LGBT+. You can be the scummiest of scumbags and still be LGBT+. You are not any more likely to be aware of your privilege in other areas just because you are LGBT+. And I wish this weren't the case. I wish that the LGBT+ community were more committed to fighting the damage caused by privilege in all areas of life, especially knowing that so many within the community are affected by that damage. However, to quote Son of Baldwin, "Oppression teaches the oppressed HOW to oppress. Power is seductive, cruelty is currency, and hierarchy is addictive."

 

My solution has been to seek out intersectional LGBT+ platforms instead of forums that don't make an active effort to call out unacceptable and discriminatory behaviour like the kind you faced. I'd recommend checking out Everyday Feminism, if you haven't already.

 

 

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On 11/4/2016 at 3:25 AM, Kip said:

It's just that cis aroaces need to remember that even though they're lgbt it doesn't mean they can't be asses. I asked them WHY they thought that was appropriate and their response was basically "Meh. We're lgbt so we can say queer and tranny and fag." They need to start treading more carefully, especially around those with anxiety/depression/bpd etc. and those who have been abused. I'm not saying all cis aces are evil, just that they need to get their act together, and that if you use the "I'm lgbt I can do this, this and this," and that if you are offensive in that way you need to leave/try and stop being so ew before you screech "IM QUEER" at the top of your lungs.

tbh I thought I was cis when I was in college, I went to an lgbt group meeting to be an ally interested in learning about people and also about sexuality. I wanted friends maybe too, it was freshman year and I was reaching out to find peers to befriend. 

 

but every time someone said anything, they were dumping hate on cis people. complaining about "cis people" and even saying stuff like "cis people just can't understand". and what was worse was, they'd share stories of bad times they had, assumed the person who was interacting was cishetero, called them a cishetero person, and then at the end of the story said, you just can't relate to any cishetero person. 

 

that was so incredibly hurtful. 

 

the thing is, yes, people who haven't had negative experiences tend to mis step their boundaries around people who are hurting. but, the thing is, this is true of people who are hurting too. everyone hurts in a different way. even two people who hurt in the same way, can say the wrong thing to each other, we only see our own perception, and won't notice when someone is particularly feeling vulnerable or moody. what might be a joke one day, the next day is hate speech, just because the day is different. 

 

but putting humans into generalistic terms is always a negative thing. 

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Also, before someone misinterprets it, I'm not saying you should "be nice all the time and shut up uwu", being passive and docile is not going to solve this issue with hate and intolerance. 

 

Unfortunately the biggest and probably the hardest lesson one has to learn when engaging in minority politics is developing a good poker face and a maintaining a composure. Tone policing is irritating, especially when people are trying to push your buttons.

 

But, if you are part of a minority group, losing control is a luxury. We need to train ourselves to be smart and collected at all times. We cannot afford to be the hysterical gay, the angry brown man, the raging feminist, the neurodivergent person lashing out. We don't need more martyrs, more people in jail, more people beaten up. The only thing that leads to is a 'told you so' and more violence.

 

We need smart people, we need people actively protecting each other. We need people who can channel their anger well. We need cool and calculated people standing up against bullies, and we need people who know when to get out of a situation. We need people to stay alive.

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To be honest, personally my worst experiences have been with LGB aros. But you can't generalize from a few individuals to the entire group. (I mean, Cassiopeia is an aro lesbian and she's awesome!)

Comments like the ones you describe are terrible and uncalled for, and abusive prejudiced people shouldn't be welcome in any safe space. But to link that behavior with any orientation means that you're being prejudiced yourself.

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