Is aromanticism part of the LGBTQ+ community?

[MulticulturalFarmer]

Hi there everyone, it's been ages since I've asked anything and I've been thinking about this, so why not?. I guess the main question is in the title but I'm curious, is aromanticism really considered a part of the LGBTQ+ community? I know historically it has focused on seuxality and gender but does it encompass romantic orientation as well? Does anyone here use the term "queer" to describe their romantic orientation?

Thanks for reading :)

[illumi]

i identify as queer bc of my lack of attraction and not cis; and i think aros are part of the lgbtq community. the new acronym 'lgbtqia+' includes the aspec and agender community in the letter a so if that doesnt say enough idk what will

[Atypique]

Yeah aromantism is 100% part of the community 

[Collie]

Can of worms in some communities (on AVEN there's a somewhat prominent amount of asexuals who say that Asexuality isn't LGBTQ), but most would say yes I think.
We face oppression in society, just look at the public mocking by types like M*tt W*lsh (Daily Wire host)

[illumi]

2 hours ago, Collie said:

We face oppression in society, just look at the public mocking by types like M*tt W*lsh (Daily Wire host)

dont even get me started on matt walsh and ben shapiro shitting on the same aspec related article on valentines day as tho they ran out of content lmfao. these two are literally just carbon copies and following trends too; theyre not any better

also again to ops question ill add that if an aro person dont think they belong in the lgbtq community then they dont have to identify as part of it; its ones choice to identify as queer or not. but they can never speak for the entire community on this matter

[hemogoblin]

Yes. It's hard to track aro history since all these microlabels we now have today used to be clumped together under other labels. Aro was a subset of ace was a subset of bi was a subset of lesbian and gay was a subset of gay. And the more you dig into queer history, the messier it gets because queer is not and never has been meant to be something with neatly defined lines. Queer was basically anyone who didn't fit into the narrow cisallohetnormative. As much as people today don't want to admit it, historically queer has included kinksters and sex workers because our history is inexorably linked. Kink is deviant from cisallohetnormativity, which is set on the foundations of evangelical Christian purity culture, where sex is only missionary between married man and woman for the purpose of procreation. Kink is about turning all that on its head and having sex in a way that's fun and enjoyable and intimate for you and has little to nothing to do with procreation. In recent history, the vast majority of our queer elders were all sex workers because they were kicked out of their homes and families and denied other employment. Sex work has always involved an inherently queer aspect due to its position in society and ours. Queer is not just a gender or sexuality. It is a politic. It is a statement of society. It's not fair that our feelings should have to be inherently political, but thus is the nature of a dichotomy where you're set up to have to defend yourself.

You don't need to be able to look back and name specific aromantic people in history to prove we're queer. We're queer because we're not normative. And if you're going simply by clearly confined labels and set aside the Q for a second, the A stands for aromantic as much as it does asexual.

[MulticulturalFarmer]

11 hours ago, mivoei said:

dont even get me started on matt walsh and ben shapiro shitting on the same aspec related article on valentines day as tho they ran out of content lmfao. these two are literally just carbon copies and following trends too; theyre not any better

also again to ops question ill add that if an aro person dont think they belong in the lgbtq community then they dont have to identify as part of it; its ones choice to identify as queer or not. but they can never speak for the entire community on this matter

Yeah that's fair about the aro identified people not thinking they belong in the lgbtq community. I also think they shouldn't be used as pawns to bring down the legitimacy of the LGBTQ+ community. 

And yeah isn't matt walsh as far right as ben shapiro? Weirdly enough they both have a global following of right wing extremists. 

14 hours ago, Collie said:

Can of worms in some communities (on AVEN there's a somewhat prominent amount of asexuals who say that Asexuality isn't LGBTQ), but most would say yes I think.
We face oppression in society, just look at the public mocking by types like M*tt W*lsh (Daily Wire host)

Why is AVEN like that, saying that asexuals aren't part of the LGBTQIA+ acronym? I used to be on AVEN back when there weren't as many users, but dang, the website has seemed different since the end of the 2010s.

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

Yeah

[illumi]

On 2/25/2023 at 7:22 AM, MulticulturalFarmer said:

Yeah that's fair about the aro identified people not thinking they belong in the lgbtq community. I also think they shouldn't be used as pawns to bring down the legitimacy of the LGBTQ+ community. 

And yeah isn't matt walsh as far right as ben shapiro? Weirdly enough they both have a global following of right wing extremists. 

ye. non lgbtq aros are just chilling. they shouldnt be used for anything

i have no idea what the left and right wing shenanigans is abt [mainly bc im not interested in politics] but they definitely share the same beliefs and both shit on the left ideologies. but them posting the same video at the same time is so funny; its almost as tho they planned it 

[DeltaAro]

On 2/24/2023 at 1:02 PM, mivoei said:

also again to ops question ill add that if an aro person dont think they belong in the lgbtq community then they dont have to identify as part of it; its ones choice to identify as queer or not. but they can never speak for the entire community on this matter

I wonder if you can belong to the LGBTQ community but not identify as queer. I've encountered one trans person who said she belonged to the LGBTQ community, but rejected the queer label and identified as straight because of heterosexual and heteroromantic attraction.

[illumi]

5 hours ago, DeltaAro said:

I wonder if you can belong to the LGBTQ community but not identify as queer. I've encountered one trans person who said she belonged to the LGBTQ community, but rejected the queer label and identified as straight because of heterosexual and heteroromantic attraction.

ye. some ppl doesnt like identifying as queer bc of the history of this word or some other reason. the trans folk didnt identify as queer likely due to their hetero attraction not being queer; but as a trans person they chose to identify as part of the community bc well; trans ppl are included in the lgbtq community

[nonmerci]

On 2/25/2023 at 12:22 AM, MulticulturalFarmer said:

Why is AVEN like that, saying that asexuals aren't part of the LGBTQIA+ acronym? I used to be on AVEN back when there weren't as many users, but dang, the website has seemed different since the end of the 2010s.

From what I've seen the other users will fight it when the idea is expressed, and in particular the stupid arguments (you know, the "not oppress enough", "but straight aros and aces or worst, straight grayros and graces, who are just confused normal people", and "you should not benefit a community you don't help building", all of these things). So I don't think the idea is the most common on AVEN, but yeah, you can see it from time to time.

Now there are also people who don't consider themselves LGBTQIA+ but don't prevent  others from doing it, which is completely valid. My position is that LGBTQIA+ includes aros by default so any aro who want to ID with it can, but it is not an obligation if you don't want to.

[Acearospec]

On 2/24/2023 at 3:01 PM, hemogoblin said:

We're queer because we're not normative.

This. ☝️

Though some folks aren't partial to the word "queer" itself (due to it's history or other reasons), it's personal preference what word(s)/label(s) one uses. 

[BasicallyEmoPotato]

I think it is part of the community, yes. But I believe it is also up to the person whether they themselves are a part of the community.

[hemogoblin]

There are straight queer people. Queer certainly includes trans identities. Queer is not just sexuality. The brilliance and the draw of queer is that A) it's inclusive (which, incidentally, is exactly why it has suffered from this "queer is a slur" campaign to silence queer folk - all of our terms are slurs!), and B) it's vague. Queer includes all of us. It means you can't separate out the "good" queers from the "bad" queers and cherry pick the ones you think society might find more acceptable while throwing the rest under the bus. It's all of us. Not-straight, not-cis, kinky, sex working, leather daddies, butches, stones, bears, cross dressers, twinks, fags, dykes, trannies, transsexuals, drag stars, crossdressers, tomboys, polyam folk, aros, aces, and other so-called "degenerates". Queer is a statement. We stand together, unified. We respect our differences because all our differences deserve to be respected and accepted. We will not point fingers and separate. We have each other's backs. It is Queer people who fought and died for what progress we did make in regards to "lgbtq+" rights, so nobody has to identify as queer (nobody has to identify as anything ever), but I would certainly hope they respect those who do, as well as honor Queer history.

That said, this could also easily lead to another discussion of how the binaries we've set up between straight or gay, ace or allo, aro or allo, trans or cis, etc. simply don't exist. Humans exist on spectrums. The extreme ends of the spectrum are the rarest points. Most people are going to fall into some sort of middle space. There's a whole lot more blending than clearly defined lines than we really get the chance to get into the nuance of because of attacks on our lives that make these discussions so polarized and limiting.

Edited March 11, 2023 by hemogoblin
Had an "and" instead of an "or"

[Harvest-Unity]

On 2/25/2023 at 7:01 AM, hemogoblin said:

Yes. It's hard to track aro history since all these microlabels we now have today used to be clumped together under other labels. Aro was a subset of ace was a subset of bi was a subset of lesbian and gay was a subset of gay. And the more you dig into queer history, the messier it gets because queer is not and never has been meant to be something with neatly defined lines. Queer was basically anyone who didn't fit into the narrow cisallohetnormative. As much as people today don't want to admit it, historically queer has included kinksters and sex workers because our history is inexorably linked. Kink is deviant from cisallohetnormativity, which is set on the foundations of evangelical Christian purity culture, where sex is only missionary between married man and woman for the purpose of procreation. Kink is about turning all that on its head and having sex in a way that's fun and enjoyable and intimate for you and has little to nothing to do with procreation. In recent history, the vast majority of our queer elders were all sex workers because they were kicked out of their homes and families and denied other employment. Sex work has always involved an inherently queer aspect due to its position in society and ours. Queer is not just a gender or sexuality. It is a politic. It is a statement of society. It's not fair that our feelings should have to be inherently political, but thus is the nature of a dichotomy where you're set up to have to defend yourself.

You don't need to be able to look back and name specific aromantic people in history to prove we're queer. We're queer because we're not normative. And if you're going simply by clearly confined labels and set aside the Q for a second, the A stands for aromantic as much as it does asexual.

Oh yeah I've heard about a possible link between bi/ace history (with actual primary sources!!!) but I can't find it rn, my bookmarks are not organised

[MulticulturalFarmer]

On 3/10/2023 at 5:45 PM, Harvest said:

Oh yeah I've heard about a possible link between bi/ace history (with actual primary sources!!!) but I can't find it rn, my bookmarks are not organised

That would be legit when you do find it for sure though :D

[hemogoblin]

Here's some stuff (some of which is general ace - or bi - history to show the messy, complicated nature of trying to apply current labels to past times).

Bi/ace:

Personal account that bi used to mean either/or/other - an umbrella for anything that wasn't gay/lesbian/straight - and included aro/aces

"The Mismeasure of Desire" placing asexuals as a Kinsey 3, aka bisexual

"Bisexuality: A Critical Reader" placing asexuality and bisexuality on the same Kinsey 3

"Bisexual Imaginary" describing bisexuality as to be equally attracted OR equally unattracted to multiple genders

Equal attraction to all genders includes no attraction+an account of an older ace identifying as bi for decades because of this

History of Asexuality, including reasoning behind believing a lot of scientists used Kinsey's scale to categorize aces as bisexuals

"Bisexuality and the Challenge to Lesbian Politics" quoting bisexuals defining bisexuality as a total lack of attraction & thinking of ourselves as asexual

Personal claim of seeing aroaces be a part of the bi community (TW for exclusionism: scroll to last reblog if you want to skip) + another "was there; can confirm" claim

General:

The Golden Orchid (a society of women not interested in women)

Pre-Internet History of Asexuality

The Asexual Manifesto of 1972

Were aros/aces always a part of the queer community?

Asexuality existed before AVEN

"Another Self" on asexual lesbians

"Boston Marriages" on early beards, ace marriages, and exclusionism/anti-asexuality

My Life as an Amoeba, one of the earliest online posts on asexuality

"Handbook of the Sociology of Sexualities" including some perspectives on historical asexuality

Bi, ace, and trans solidarity

Short history of the word 'bisexuality'

Edited March 13, 2023 by hemogoblin

[Harvest-Unity]

Woah, sick amount of links! I shall add the ones I don't have to my bookmarks hoard >:) 

[Collie]

On 2/28/2023 at 2:43 PM, DeltaAro said:

I wonder if you can belong to the LGBTQ community but not identify as queer. I've encountered one trans person who said she belonged to the LGBTQ community, but rejected the queer label and identified as straight because of heterosexual and heteroromantic attraction.

 

On 2/28/2023 at 8:14 PM, 7ev said:

ye. some ppl doesnt like identifying as queer bc of the history of this word or some other reason. the trans folk didnt identify as queer likely due to their hetero attraction not being queer; but as a trans person they chose to identify as part of the community bc well; trans ppl are included in the lgbtq community

Certainly. I'm personally fine with calling myself queer, but the general etiquette I think is to not refer to specific others that way unless you know they're fine with it.

[HelloThere]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:02 AM, LIVI0 said:

dont even get me started on matt walsh and ben shapiro shitting on the same aspec related article on valentines day as tho they ran out of content lmfao. these two are literally just carbon copies and following trends too; theyre not any better

also again to ops question ill add that if an aro person dont think they belong in the lgbtq community then they dont have to identify as part of it; its ones choice to identify as queer or not. but they can never speak for the entire community on this matter

Oh, I despise Ben Shapiro, he looks for any mildly showboaty person in the LGBTQ community and then adds a blanket statement to it. I’ve seen this guy react to stuff and I’m just amazed he hasn’t been cancelled. He got angry about some kids show having gay dinosaurs in it, and honestly it just makes me laugh that he even cares. XD

[illumi]

13 hours ago, HelloThere said:

Oh, I despise Ben Shapiro, he looks for any mildly showboaty person in the LGBTQ community and then adds a blanket statement to it. I’ve seen this guy react to stuff and I’m just amazed he hasn’t been cancelled. He got angry about some kids show having gay dinosaurs in it, and honestly it just makes me laugh that he even cares. XD

his content never leaves his target audience for him to be cancelable sadly; the bigots r also the majority and were barely winning sometimes so

[HelloThere]

6 hours ago, LIVI0 said:

his content never leaves his target audience for him to be cancelable sadly; the bigots r also the majority and were barely winning sometimes so

Yeah, he has just enough isolation to not get cancelled.

[The Newest Fabled Creature]

I feel like it does depend on the individual if they want to deems themselves queer for their romantic orientation, but aromanticism and asexuality are a part of the queer community! For my being aro, I not only deem that part of me queer but also a part of the community as well.

On 3/10/2023 at 5:41 PM, hemogoblin said:

There are straight queer people. Queer certainly includes trans identities. Queer is not just sexuality. The brilliance and the draw of queer is that A) it's inclusive (which, incidentally, is exactly why it has suffered from this "queer is a slur" campaign to silence queer folk - all of our terms are slurs!), and B) it's vague. Queer includes all of us. It means you can't separate out the "good" queers from the "bad" queers and cherry pick the ones you think society might find more acceptable while throwing the rest under the bus. It's all of us. Not-straight, not-cis, kinky, sex working, leather daddies, butches, stones, bears, cross dressers, twinks, fags, dykes, trannies, transsexuals, drag stars, crossdressers, tomboys, polyam folk, aros, aces, and other so-called "degenerates". Queer is a statement. We stand together, unified. We respect our differences because all our differences deserve to be respected and accepted. We will not point fingers and separate. We have each other's backs. It is Queer people who fought and died for what progress we did make in regards to "lgbtq+" rights, so nobody has to identify as queer (nobody has to identify as anything ever), but I would certainly hope they respect those who do, as well as honor Queer history.

That said, this could also easily lead to another discussion of how the binaries we've set up between straight or gay, ace or allo, aro or allo, trans or cis, etc. simply don't exist. Humans exist on spectrums. The extreme ends of the spectrum are the rarest points. Most people are going to fall into some sort of middle space. There's a whole lot more blending than clearly defined lines than we really get the chance to get into the nuance of because of attacks on our lives that make these discussions so polarized and limiting.

Holy shit, I love this, this a statement I needed to read.

[Maybe Mae]

On 3/13/2023 at 1:18 AM, hemogoblin said:

Here's some stuff (some of which is general ace - or bi - history to show the messy, complicated nature of trying to apply current labels to past times).

Bi/ace:

Personal account that bi used to mean either/or/other - an umbrella for anything that wasn't gay/lesbian/straight - and included aro/aces

"The Mismeasure of Desire" placing asexuals as a Kinsey 3, aka bisexual

"Bisexuality: A Critical Reader" placing asexuality and bisexuality on the same Kinsey 3

"Bisexual Imaginary" describing bisexuality as to be equally attracted OR equally unattracted to multiple genders

Equal attraction to all genders includes no attraction+an account of an older ace identifying as bi for decades because of this

History of Asexuality, including reasoning behind believing a lot of scientists used Kinsey's scale to categorize aces as bisexuals

"Bisexuality and the Challenge to Lesbian Politics" quoting bisexuals defining bisexuality as a total lack of attraction & thinking of ourselves as asexual

Personal claim of seeing aroaces be a part of the bi community (TW for exclusionism: scroll to last reblog if you want to skip) + another "was there; can confirm" claim

General:

The Golden Orchid (a society of women not interested in women)

Pre-Internet History of Asexuality

The Asexual Manifesto of 1972

Were aros/aces always a part of the queer community?

Asexuality existed before AVEN

"Another Self" on asexual lesbians

"Boston Marriages" on early beards, ace marriages, and exclusionism/anti-asexuality

My Life as an Amoeba, one of the earliest online posts on asexuality

"Handbook of the Sociology of Sexualities" including some perspectives on historical asexuality

Bi, ace, and trans solidarity

Short history of the word 'bisexuality'

Wow! Thank you for this there's some really interesting stuff in here