Jot-Aro Kujo

I'm allo aro. Not demi, so idk how much help I'll be, though. What's your question?

I don't know if this really counts as a gender thing, I'm pretty firmly cis, but I do tend to dress in more unconventional (usually very feminine, but in a very irregular way) styles and I never care about dressing in ways that men would find appealing. I would be quite happy if my style reads as queer, especially to other queer women, but ultimately I dress exclusively for myself. I dress pretty strangely, and I don't really care if anyone else is bothered by it, because I'm not looking for anyone's approval but my own. Unfortunately this tends to attract weird nerd dudes who think I'm a manic pixie dream girl.

Just ask her? You say you want a QPR with her but you’re not sure if she’ll feel the same way. Then... Ask. Say, “Hey, do you want to have a QPR with me?” No one else can answer that question for her, and she can’t answer if you don’t ask, so it’s best to be direct. Also, something I would like to point out, as an aro myself- I was once in a relationship with someone and we also referred to each other as our “wife” for silly reasons, but eventually I grew to hate this term because it really set off my romance repulsion. Are you sure that’s not the reason why she’s “divorcing” you? Many aros are uncomfortable with romance or romance-coded acts. If she recently came out, she may have been trying to convey this. Ask her what she’s comfortable with and what she isn’t. Remember, just because she claimed to enjoy something while closeted doesn’t necessarily mean she still does.

From one bi aro to another, I'm really sorry you had to experience that. I've had similar experiences, though not quite to this degree. My mom eventually came around; I can only hope yours does too. I don't really have a ton of advice, but I can at least say that you're not alone. If you ever need to talk, I'm open. (You're also welcome to add me on Discord or Tumblr if you prefer.) Good luck, stay strong ❤️??

Yeah, feel free to send it my way, I'd be happy to do what I can.

Alright, I do see what you guys mean now about the meme being the problem and not the tags. That makes sense. Thanks, everyone. On that note, though, I have another question. And I do apologize if it seems like I'm making this all about allo aros- I'm not asking these things to be all "me me me", I'm asking because I recognize that yeah, allo aros do have to be careful about acephobia, and I genuinely do want to learn how to be more respectful of aces in my allo aro activism. What's the best way to approach the topic of actual homophobia/sex shaming within the aro community without instantly putting aroaces on the defensive? I know "waaaaah but aceys are hoOoOmophOoObiIiIIic one time I said a guy is cute and a ace said I should be burned at the stake" etc. etc. is classic acephobic rhetoric, and I don't want to repeat that, but like... Yeah, sometimes people legitimately do say things that are homophobic or sex-shamey, and that needs to be addressed. So, how can this be addressed in a respectful way, and in a way that won't instantly make aces feel nervous due to past experiences with aphobes?

No, I'm not. That's why I'm asking. If I had some overly specific demands for how things should be tagged, I would not be coming into this thread to ask other people how they should be tagged. That was my point.

Regarding "tag policing". Y'all are definitely right that it's not fair to leave no room for overlap between aro identities and ace identities, arospec identities, etc. That being said, I do have a question- What would you say should be done regarding things such as the aforementioned "Attraction is cancelled" meme? Because while it's not... Not an aro meme, I guess, what really bothered me about it was that the OP tagged it as simply "#aro" "#aromantic" "#aromantic memes", implying that it was an experience that would be relatable to all aros. So while I can understand the sentiment, seeing outright homophobia in the aro tag, as an allo aro, was really upsetting. How should examples like this generally be handled?

Alright, then that's on you. I have expressed that myself and others think it's really not fair to bring up someone's post as an example of Bad Content without attempting to communicate with them directly first, and that this kind of behavior ultimately leads to people not wanting to listen to you. If you're outright saying that no, you will not attempt to communicate with them... Well, uh... I don't really know what to say to that..?

Why would I not be..? You're complaining about posts made on Tumblr. Thus, the solution would be to attempt to communicate with the posters, on Tumblr. I don't understand what you're getting at.

For me, personally? Sure, I guess? I don't really have a preferred method of communication. Anywhere you can reach me is fine. For other people, I assume it would depend on the platform. In general, I don't think the method of communication matters so much as the actual communicating. Send them an ask on Tumblr, reblog their post and add a comment, @ them on the forums, whatever- Doesn't really matter how you do it, the important thing is that you talk to them before going and accusing them of things.

If it’s all the same to you, I would very much prefer not to. There’s 500 bazillion issues going on in that thread and I’m tired of all of them. The reason I brought it up was not to dig up old drama, but to explain how things you’ve done in the past/did again in this thread are counterproductive to getting people to listen to you, in the hopes that you could learn from this explanation. That’s all.

Honestly? This might sound kind of dumb, but my suggestion is to just... Try anyway. Go on anon, if it's on Tumblr. I don't think that anyone has to try to educate every person they see make some sort of microaggression, but if you're going to use a person specifically as an example, you do have a responsibility to at least try to talk to them directly if possible, to give them a fair chance to talk things out rather than just going This Person Is Bad Here's Why No I Will Not Tell Them This Directly I'm Gonna Steal Their Dirty Laundry And Air It In Someone Else's Yard. In general, I think if you're going to use someone's words as a specific example of what not to do, you should ask yourself three questions: 1. Do I have the full context for this comment and why they made it? 2. Have I spoken to them directly about it? 3. Have I seen someone else bring up my concerns to this person? If the answer to all of these is "No", then talk to them. If they're receptive to you, you can say "Here's a thing that happened, I talked to the person and everything's good now but this thing still happened, so here's an example of mistakes people make and how they can learn from them" (e.g. my conversation with @Lokiana about the use of the phrase "dirty allosexuals", which I did not understand the full connotations of until she was kind enough to talk it out with me). If they ignore you or are hostile to you, you can say "Here's a thing that happened, this person was really rude to me and not willing to listen, so here's an example of how nasty people can be" (e.g. the "Attraction is cancelled" meme, which I explained the horrific connotations of and received no response from the OP). But the bottom line is, you have to at least give them a chance. Nobody should go around flaunting people's words without giving them a chance to explain themselves. If you've given them the chance, and you have the full picture, then you can talk about it, but always give them the chance first.

Not exclusively, no. In the end it did just devolve into a hot mess as all forum threads do. But I can say for myself and others I know who were involved, that’s what was the initial catalyst. I was certainly far more concerned with the fact that I had just seen someone take my beloved friend’s words out of context and prop it up as an example of Bad Behavior on another platform without telling him than I was with anything else. I knew that you had not attempted to discuss your claims with Annest directly, just as I know that you did not attempt to address your issues with my wording just now directly either. This led to a lot of hostility and a thought of, “Wow, this person was really rude to my friend. I don’t like that. They didn’t even try to talk it out! Do they actually want to solve the problem or are they just here to accuse people and stir up drama? Why would anyone go around talking about other people’s bad behavior without trying to address it with them first?” and these feelings of distrust and anger made me feel a lot less willing to listen to what you had to say. Yes, I do want to listen to what people have to say on important issues. But if you want someone to listen, you must first speak to them. You can’t stand there silently and then walk into another room and yell “SO-AND-SO DIDN’T LISTEN TO WHAT I HAD TO SAY!” because then so-and-so is going to be like, “What the fuck are you taking about? You didn’t say anything. Why are you trying to get me in trouble?”

Nah you're good, don't worry! I was mostly talking about @Coyote. To actually clarify: What I meant when I said that aros were "at the bottom of the barrel in the aspec community" (which, yes, is maybe not the greatest phrasing, I will admit) was NOT "aros are more oppressed than everyone else". I apologize that it came off that way. What I meant was that in terms of aspec community activity, the greatest emphasis is generally placed on alloromantic asexuals (note my reference to the classic "but aces can still love!" rhetoric), then after that comes aroaces, and then allo aros kind of fall to the wayside, if we're mentioned at all. I do not, and have never believed that allo aros are "more oppressed" than allo aces, aroaces, etc., I was referring to who gets the most support within the aspec community as a whole. Hence, my mixed feelings allo aces using the aro flag, something I created to raise awareness for allo aros (since our voices so often go unheard within the aspec community) as the basis for their own flag. My comment was not about which group is "more oppressed", because the whole oppression olympics is fucking stupid and we all deal with different issues at different levels. You may also note, @Coyote, the following paragraph in the same post: Even if I may have admittedly not fully succeeded, I did try my best to be as polite as possible and avoid ace antagonism, and I expressed this intention clearly. Had you simply gone directly to me and said "Hey, that phrasing isn't very good, here's why" I would have listened and rephrased it in a better way. I'll be honest, this is why the QPR thread turned out the way it did. It's not because people weren't willing to listen. It's because you saw people who made mistakes- Including people who likely did so by accident- And instead of attempting to resolve the situation by speaking to them directly, you took their words out of context and used them on a different platform as an example of People In The Aro Community Doing Bad Things™ without even notifying them that you were doing so, despite many of those people being actual users on this site. That's... Pretty uncool. It's one thing to say "Yeah, this person said this thing and I talked to them about it and they ignored me", it's another thing entirely to just go "This person said this thing" and leave it at that without trying to talk to them first. It's like if someone said something that unintentionally hurt your feelings, and instead of saying "Hey, that hurt my feelings, could you not do that?" you stood up in front of the whole room and yelled "HEY, SO-AND-SO HURT MY FEELINGS!"; Now so-and-so, who wasn't initially aware that they had done anything wrong, feels put on the spot, and their first instinct is likely to defend themselves to this room that is lacking in context, rather than to ask what they can do better. That doesn't really foster open conversations and a willingness to learn from each other, it fosters distrust.

Just as a reminder, um, I am here. You can, like, you know... Ask me for clarification about things I say on Tumblr instead of discussing my posts in the hypothetical. Just sayin.

Yeah posts like that confuse me too, what is up with those? I'll see a post that's a politely worded statement like "Aroaces tend to assume that all aros share their experiences, and this can be really harmful to allo aros when they make sex-antagonistic statements and expect everyone to agree" and I'm like yeah you're right! Good explanation! And then they have a banner that says, like "Allo aro only post, non-allo-aros don't interact" and I'm like... ???? So it's... So you're talking exclusively to allo aros, to tell us things that we already know because we experience them? Ok... Why..? (Not to mention that banner DNI's are useless if someone can't actually see the image, e.g. visually impaired folks using screen readers or even just people with shitty wifi who can't even tell that there's an image because it won't load. But I digress)

Well, yeah. But not everyone is constantly looking to do Activism™ every time they talk about their identities. Definitely if someone is setting out to say something with the intention of getting people to listen and think, then yes, it's probably in their best interests to not simply scream about things, but sometimes people just... Are venting, on their own blogs? Allo aros are allowed to be angry. We don't have to "get things done" every time we speak. Again, we do need to be really, really careful that our anger does not dip into outright acephobia- But so long as it doesn't cross that line, there's no real reason we shouldn't be able to just talk about our emotions sometimes. Being polite while explaining is good, definitely! But when not explaining, the language allo aros use to make personal posts on our own blogs- Again, so long as that language is not straight up acephobic rhetoric- Is our business, imo.

That person would be me. Hello! I definitely do recognize that allo aros need to be careful not to repeat acephobic rhetoric, and some people are... worse about that than others. ? It's something I've been trying to keep in mind lately. That being said, I definitely agree that aces also need to recognize the line between "this is genuine acephobia and I should ask this person not to talk like that" and "This person is angry about legitimate injustices done to them and I Am Feel Uncomfortable When We Are Not About Me so I'm gonna tone police them". It definitely is a very difficult line to identify though. Allo aros need to be allowed to express frustration with the way the ace community treats us, and we need our frustration to be respected regardless of if we're being "polite"- But we also need to be very, VERY careful that we do not express this frustration via straight up repeating acephobic rhetoric, in the same way that aces need to be careful that they don't express their frustration via repeating homophobic rhetoric. It's a very difficult line to navigate for both parties. But it absolutely needs to be navigated.

Fellow jaeger pilot

That, actually, is a good question for you to ask yourself, not me. Would a QPR be more fulfilling than an unlabeled friendship to you? Why or why not? What is it, specifically, that you want from your relationship? The reason I asked if you want one is because squishes ≠ QPRs. You can have a squish on someone without necessarily wanting a QPR, and you can have a QPR without having a squish, just like how someone saying “I think so-and-so is cute” doesn’t mean they have to ask that person out on a date. Technically, you don’t actually have to do anything. You can just continue your friendship as it is. But if that friendship is unsatisfying to you, ask yourself- Why? What is it, specifically, that you want? Once you identify your desires, you can decide how to address them. And if you do decide you want to be in a QPR with this person, I would say to just ask them.

Well do you want a QPR?

I'm actually a little bit new to both sewing and costume design, since I only really started actively trying to do them within the past few years. In general, though, I mostly do lolita fashion and cosplay; My most accomplished cosplays would probably be Pharaoh Atem (2019) and Fujiwara no Sai (2018), although the latter I would really like to remake with something a bit more period + nice looking than shitty plain cotton... I tried to remake the kariginu last year using some sort of? Satin... something-or-other?? But I never figured out how to sew it properly My current projects are deck bags for all my TCG friends, embellishing an old vest to give it a more Babymetal look, and then I'm going to hopefully attempt to make my first corset. If all goes well I'm going to be a scarab fairy as my renfaire costume this year (partly because it's an excuse to recycle some of the jewelry from my Atem cosplay, because STONKS), assuming the plague has died down enough by June to actually have a renfaire at all...

I do writing, art, and sewing/costume design!

Lol, that's valid. I mean, I'm goth too, and I wear bright colors- You don't have to wear one aesthetic all the time, nor do goths have to have a certain personality. The idea that goths are all exactly the same in every way all the time, and that anyone who isn't is somehow a fake goth, is a common misconception.