Jot-Aro Kujo

Who says a lifelong partner has to be romantic?

In all fairness, "allies" are often included as a way to allow closeted people safer access to support. So, say, someone could tell their parents "Oh, I'm not gay, I'm just going as an ally." and their parents would be none the wiser. Personally though, I prefer LGBTQ+, or LGBTQIAPN, I think they're more inclusive.

Not all nonbinary folks identify as trans, and not all agender folks even identify as nonbinary. I’ve heard from some who don’t consider themselves nonbinary because this term implies participating in some form of gender- To some people, being agender is not being some gender that’s not within the binary, it’s not participating in the system of gender at all, meaning they’re not nonbinary in the same way “colorless” isn’t somehow a secondary color just because it isn’t a primary color. Of course, plenty of agender folks do consider themselves nonbinary and/or trans. But not all do. So while it’s debatable whether or not there should be an A for ally, to say there are two As and they stand for ace and aro is to erase agender people.

And where would you say agender people fit in in this?

Sounds like romance repulsion to me. Just because you like someone as a person doesn't mean you like them in every scenario- Like, I love my grandma, but I wouldn't feel very comfortable going to see a graphic horror movie with her, right? You might love this person as a friend, but feel uncomfortable in a romantic situation with them. And you may very well not be comfortable in a romantic situation with anyone. There's nothing wrong with that, and I would advise you to take care of yourself and not put yourself in situations that make you uncomfortable. Speaking from experience... I think the only way to really handle it is to break up with them gently, sooner rather than later. I've been in a similar situation, and it only got worse and worse until I didn't want to be around them at all. If you just say something like "Hey, I think you're a great person but I don't think this whole romance thing is working out, can we go back to being strictly friends?" you have a chance at saving yourself, and frankly, your friend, a lot of frustration.

Hello, nice to meet you! I'd say some things to keep in mind if you're new to the aro community are: Allosexual aromantics exist too, and are an important part of the community despite our lack of recognition. (And no, we don't have a problem with being called allosexual. Personally I'd feel uncomfortable with just being called "sexual"? Alloros are a weird bunch, huh...) Many people refer to the ace and aro communities as a collective as the "a-spectrum" In addition to no-romance-ever aromantics, there are many identities under the aromantic umbrella, including grey-aromantic, demiromantic, cupioromantic, lithromantic, etc. These are collectively referred to as "aro spectrum" or "arospec" for short. Not all aros want QPRs. Although there is... some debate over how to refer to these types of aros, some commonly used terminology includes aplatonic, nonpartnering, or nonamorous.

While it's of course totally up to you to define your relationship terms and what you're both most comfortable with, I think you really should start by examining why qp doesn't feel like "enough" to you.

Ask her. Does she want to be in one? How important to her is romance? Can she be in a QPR and have a romantic partner, or do you want this to be her only partnership of any variety? We can't read her mind. Alloromantic folks are not all identical in their desires, and not every QPR is the same by far. If you don't know how she would feel about something, ask her.

I get that, and I wish you the best of luck. In a situation like that, there are some things you can do that can help you heal, and help you avoid accidentally making statements that can be just as harmful as some things Christians say. 1. Educate yourself about other religions. Read up on the basics of other religions, and if you know folks who participate in other religions, ask them directly about their beliefs. Most people are happy to answer questions, so long as you're polite! 2. When you make an assumption about religion, ask yourself- Where does this assumption come from? Where did you first encounter whatever you're thinking about? If it's something you've heard about a religion other than Christianity, did you hear it from people who actually practice that religion, or is it something you heard from Christians or Christian-centric sources (e.g. schools, ex-Christian atheists)? Do you know for certain that this is something most participants in a certain religion believe, or is it only particular groups? 3. This may sound like a strange one, but talk to Christians from other backgrounds, too. I know Christianity as a whole does have some things that can be difficult to accept as a non-Christian, but there's still a huge difference between different groups, and to equate them all can be unfair- This is a mistake I see from many, many non-Christians. To give a common example, saying that all Christians are privileged and totally free to worship is ignorant at best when here in the U.S., there have been many incidents of black churches being subjected to terrorist attacks. I'm not saying that anyone has to stop being uncomfortable with Christianity as a whole, but it is important to know how to talk about that discomfort in ways that don't accidentally promote racism, etc. Good luck and if you have any questions, I'm happy to answer. I'm a lifelong eclectic pagan myself.

I don't think your content was offensive- But I do think it would be important for you to learn about religions other than white conservative Christianity. You seem to be equating "religion" with white conservative Christianity, and while I do agree that that particular type of religion has done a lot of harm, it is by far not the only type of religion out there. To use "religion" as a synonym for white conservative Christianity is another form of glorifying white conservative Christianity, as it implies that other religions are not real religions or simply do not exist, and white conservative Christianity is the only "true" religion. Many of the things you described do not exist in other religions, or at least not in the same form. For example, did you know abortion is allowed within Judaism- And, in fact, to criminalize abortion would be to deny Jewish women their religious freedom? Did you know that I, someone who is very religious, grew up being told I'm going to hell for being a devil worshipper? Did you know that many pagan traditions do contain stories of homosexuality and unusual gender concepts? Did you know that in medieval times, there were many Islamic scientists and mathematicians who were incredibly ahead of their time and made many contributions to science? Did you know that just a few days ago was Holocaust Remembrance Day, a day in which we honor the millions of people who were killed for their religion during the Holocaust? By all means, be angry about the things white conservative Christianity has done. But do not call the rest of us the same as them.

Defenestrate.

...With all due respect, I would... Possibly avoid trying to give advice on how to write bi aros if you've never felt attraction. I know you mean well, but I would say that's not really accurate to the experience. That being said, here are some ways my bisexuality and my aromanticism affect each other: -Because I don't experience romantic attraction, I often struggle to relate to other bi folks, and avoid larger LGBTQ events or resources unless they make it very, explicitly clear that they're welcoming to aros, which few do. However, because I do experience sexual attraction, I often feel disconnected from the aro community as well, as there is a large emphasis on aroaces + lack of attraciton in general. Still, there's a lot I do relate to in both communities, and both are important aspects of my identity. -Weirdly enough, I find I'm actually more selective about personality when it comes to interest in folks? Like... I've noticed that alloromantic folks tend to develop crushes and then just kind of, go with it even if the person isn't terribly compatible with them, for some reason. With me I'm like, yeah he's hot, but his taste in anime? Horrible. 0/10 would not bang -I tend to be affected very negatively by the intersection of aro and bi stereotypes. "Heartless, manipulative player who doesn't care about anyone and uses people for sex" is a stereotype that's very commonly associated with both bisexuals and aromantics, and pushback against these stereotypes from both communities can, unfortunately, often result in throwing actual bi aros under the bus. It's very easy to feel like you're a traitor to your orientation by just being yourself, which can be hard to deal with. -Despite the stereotype that allo aros have lots of sex, and the stereotype that bis have "more to choose from" or whatever, for a lot of allo aros it's actually very difficult to access sex. If you're romance repulsed, not the sort of person who likes parties or bars, and don't use hookup apps, there's really very little opportunity for sexual encounters, and a lot of allo aros have never had sex at all even at ages when most other allosexual folks would have. Many allo aros also are extremely selective about who they hook up with, for fear of the possibility of their partner """""catching feelings""""" and then blaming them for not reciprocating- Even when a relationship is explicitly agreed to be only sexual, not romantic, there's still sort of a societal expectation that if one party changes their mind, the other party has some obligation to accept this. -Sexual attraction to men and women can feel different, and some bi folks may be attracted to one gender more than the other. Without romantic attraction, aesthetics may play a larger role- And I don't mean if someone's "ugly" or "hot", I literally mean aesthetics. I tend to be attracted more to women because women are generally more creative in how they express themselves aesthetically, whereas dudes in general kind of fluctuate between "t-shirt and jeans" and "blazer and button-up" which is a pretty boring range of looks, and I'm just too dramatic for that. I don't care what your face looks like but if you have the same haircut as 70 other guys at my school I'm probably not all that interested, hon -The constant struggle between bi purple and aro green vs. the knowledge that people see purple and green paired in a pride context and assume it means aroace... -Fictional characters are often more attractive than real people, because there's just so much less trouble involved. A cute girl might fall in love with me, or ditch me for a romantic partner, but Mai Valentine and her hot motorcycle have never and will never do me wrong ? -When you're young it can be easy to mistake sexual attraction for romantic attraction, or to start dating someone because you feel like it's what you're "supposed" to do. This can lead to a lot of discomfort if romance repulsion arises, and, eventually, possibly messy breakups. There may be a long period of time between realizing you don't love someone and actually breaking up with them, either due to fear of negative consequences for not doing the "socially correct" thing by having a partner, or due to hope that you might develop romantic feelings eventually.

Ah, that makes sense. I'm kind of the other way around, because if I made a lot of cash from a card game tournament, I 100% would use it to buy clothes. But like I said, I don't dress for men; I buy clothes because I like them, not because of social pressures. When I say "I want to buy clothes" usually what I mean is "I want to buy a $100 gothic lolita JSK".

I actually relate to Mai a lot! She's great. Absolutely everything I wanted to be when I was like 5 years old. I love her so much. Imo though her motivations were more complex, I think the buying clothes thing was mostly just what she told people, not necessarily the real reason she was entering.

Yeah, I definitely do feel like even as a cis woman, even as someone who is very feminine, I think my experience with womanhood is very different from what an allo woman's would be. Women are so deeply linked with romance, both in that we're seen as objects for men's affections, and also in that we're expected to want it for ourselves. Little boys are taught to dream of being astronauts and firefighters and sports stars; Little girls are taught to dream of marrying a handsome prince. Teenage girls are expected to be boy crazy. When you're someone who doesn't want/do any of those things... It's strange, and a little isolating. One area where this particularly bothers me is media. Stories centered on women are almost always romance stories, and in stories that aren't romance-heavy, what few women are present usually wind up being love interests for a male character. Growing up I worried a lot that I must have been secretly a misogynist, because no matter how hard I tried I could never really like stories like Sailor Moon or characters like Winry or Padme, so surely it must have been because I hated women, right? Now of course I know that it's because they're all too deeply tied to romance, so I don't blame myself for it, but I still wish there were more stories for women like me. It's so disheartening looking at my top favorite characters and thinking about the fact that the vast majority of them are guys, or looking at my favorite stories and thinking about the fact that most of them have very few women. As a side note, have you heard of the term arogender? My friend @arokaladin coined it a while back to describe that concept of gender identity being heavily affected by aromanticism. It might be interesting for you to read about.

That's not sexual attraction. Sexual attraction would be wanting to have sex with a specific person. Attraction requires a target; Being curious about sex with any random stranger is just being curious about sex.

I'm allo aro. Not demi, so idk how much help I'll be, though. What's your question?

I don't know if this really counts as a gender thing, I'm pretty firmly cis, but I do tend to dress in more unconventional (usually very feminine, but in a very irregular way) styles and I never care about dressing in ways that men would find appealing. I would be quite happy if my style reads as queer, especially to other queer women, but ultimately I dress exclusively for myself. I dress pretty strangely, and I don't really care if anyone else is bothered by it, because I'm not looking for anyone's approval but my own. Unfortunately this tends to attract weird nerd dudes who think I'm a manic pixie dream girl.

Just ask her? You say you want a QPR with her but you’re not sure if she’ll feel the same way. Then... Ask. Say, “Hey, do you want to have a QPR with me?” No one else can answer that question for her, and she can’t answer if you don’t ask, so it’s best to be direct. Also, something I would like to point out, as an aro myself- I was once in a relationship with someone and we also referred to each other as our “wife” for silly reasons, but eventually I grew to hate this term because it really set off my romance repulsion. Are you sure that’s not the reason why she’s “divorcing” you? Many aros are uncomfortable with romance or romance-coded acts. If she recently came out, she may have been trying to convey this. Ask her what she’s comfortable with and what she isn’t. Remember, just because she claimed to enjoy something while closeted doesn’t necessarily mean she still does.

From one bi aro to another, I'm really sorry you had to experience that. I've had similar experiences, though not quite to this degree. My mom eventually came around; I can only hope yours does too. I don't really have a ton of advice, but I can at least say that you're not alone. If you ever need to talk, I'm open. (You're also welcome to add me on Discord or Tumblr if you prefer.) Good luck, stay strong ❤️??

Yeah, feel free to send it my way, I'd be happy to do what I can.

Alright, I do see what you guys mean now about the meme being the problem and not the tags. That makes sense. Thanks, everyone. On that note, though, I have another question. And I do apologize if it seems like I'm making this all about allo aros- I'm not asking these things to be all "me me me", I'm asking because I recognize that yeah, allo aros do have to be careful about acephobia, and I genuinely do want to learn how to be more respectful of aces in my allo aro activism. What's the best way to approach the topic of actual homophobia/sex shaming within the aro community without instantly putting aroaces on the defensive? I know "waaaaah but aceys are hoOoOmophOoObiIiIIic one time I said a guy is cute and a ace said I should be burned at the stake" etc. etc. is classic acephobic rhetoric, and I don't want to repeat that, but like... Yeah, sometimes people legitimately do say things that are homophobic or sex-shamey, and that needs to be addressed. So, how can this be addressed in a respectful way, and in a way that won't instantly make aces feel nervous due to past experiences with aphobes?

No, I'm not. That's why I'm asking. If I had some overly specific demands for how things should be tagged, I would not be coming into this thread to ask other people how they should be tagged. That was my point.

Regarding "tag policing". Y'all are definitely right that it's not fair to leave no room for overlap between aro identities and ace identities, arospec identities, etc. That being said, I do have a question- What would you say should be done regarding things such as the aforementioned "Attraction is cancelled" meme? Because while it's not... Not an aro meme, I guess, what really bothered me about it was that the OP tagged it as simply "#aro" "#aromantic" "#aromantic memes", implying that it was an experience that would be relatable to all aros. So while I can understand the sentiment, seeing outright homophobia in the aro tag, as an allo aro, was really upsetting. How should examples like this generally be handled?

Alright, then that's on you. I have expressed that myself and others think it's really not fair to bring up someone's post as an example of Bad Content without attempting to communicate with them directly first, and that this kind of behavior ultimately leads to people not wanting to listen to you. If you're outright saying that no, you will not attempt to communicate with them... Well, uh... I don't really know what to say to that..?