Ikarus

My Christmas list. some DK Bongos and Donkey Kong jungle beat. Garindan, and Barquin D'an 12 inch Republic commando book series True Colors, Order 66 Some separatist treasonist’s to complete my separatist council, Po nudo, and Cat min. This Stoic philosophy book I am looking forward to giving my grandmas dog her new annual dog toy, and playing with her. My young nephews presents, got them a puzzle and a firetruck.

Before I give any advice, just want to say I have never been in this kind of situation. Now with that said, I have got some thoughts on this dilemma. First of all each person takes surprises like this differently. It may take her some adjusting time to feel ok with the fact that you are Aro. All I am saying is don’t expect to be able to deliver the perfect coming out confession without making her feel bad, or confused. You may say put what you say in the best way possible, and even then, how she reacts is something you cannot entirely control. Remember Andy Bernard from the office after anger management therapy, “I can’t control what other people do, I can only control what I do.” Yes random quote, but I think it fits. Now to focus on what you can do, and can control, how you come out of the closet. (Phase 1) [Talk about Aro stuff in an indirect curious way] Give small hints, no need to dump the ice water on her head all at once. Talk about Aro stuff with her. For example you can talk to her about how Aro people have very little representation, or about what amatonormativity is. You can say that you have been spending some time researching aro subjects out of curiosity. You can talk to her about how aro’s see the world, and how everything around them prioritizes romantic feeling above all else. (Phase 2) [Hint at it] After you have done this, you can talk to her about some of the romantic things you find awkward. You don’t have to say directly that they are awkward, perhaps just joke about the little romantic things you find funny or strange. If your not a funny person, then find jokes about romance, or dating. Jerry Seinfeld is funny, take some of his jokes. On this stage you are on the verge of coming out but not yet. All this hinting stuff is so she isn’t completely surprised by the fact you say you are Aromantic later on. You gave her plenty of clues, which will make sense once you actually come out. [Why Phase 1 and 2 are important] Again on this stage I would not recommend just saying I am aromantic as you shudder and have a panic attack. Another factor which makes the, (nice and easy does it) way of coming out great is simply this. It can make you feel more comfortable as you get to actually coming out by hinting at it. Also, you can see how she reacts to aro things, and take note of these reactions. Also see what she thinks of some of the jokes you tell, or observations you have on romantic things like buying flowers during first date, ect. ( Final Phase ) [Actually coming out] Since she already knows at this phase that you have been interested or curious about aromantic people, and their experience. You have implied that you find romantic gestures quite silly, and you have lessened the shock just a little. It is now time for the first bit of transparency. Simply say this, during my research on aro people, and how they see the world, I have found myself actually relating to their experience. Talk about how you relate to aro people, and after all that finally tell her, I am aromantic. Then you can talk about how you are not romantically averse, and you don’t want to end your relationship. The key to what I am trying to say is this, slowly build up to the point where you finally come out. Once she hears you are aromantic it won’t seem completely out of left field. Well that is all Ive got to say...

I have seen many different people say within aro spaces online through memes or what have you, that Aro’s are often asked for advice on romantic relationships. When I first stared seeing this topic idea I thought, why would people ask an Aro, who usually doesn’t feel these romo things at all. I still wonder how many Aro’s have been asked for romantic advice by friends ect. Of course there are a lot of people who are closeted Aro’s and haven’t come out, so I am guessing the numbers aren’t very high. I also wonder if Aro’s are actually capable of giving good romantic advice. Would Allo’s actually understand our advice through their different ways of feeling and seeing the world? Would Allo’s misunderstand Aro advice, or decide to not follow it? I have not completely made up my mind yet, and wonder what the Aro’s here think about this question

Welcome to the community!

The closest thing which could be considered remotely sexual would be cuddles, and those cuddle positions could hypothetically become sexual but never do I desire them to become sexual. I also don't imagine the people I am cuddling without clothes. Imagining These cuddling scenes in my head are done in the third person by some stranger, or person I make up that takes my place. When I think of actually doing it, I think very literally about what would be comfortable, what touch would be considered sexual (which I would want to avoid to not give the wrong impression), and literally taking heat and sweat into account. Anyway the cuddling positions I usually think about involve *Laying down on each other *other positions hard to describe, and I don't know the name of them... Actual Aesthetic things I think look super cool *Built Pec with some respectable bicep muscles on dudes, but again not in a kinky way really. *Female stomachs (I don't know why people ignore this, I love stomachs more than any other part of the female body aesthetic wise, everything else complements the stomach) *Females look better with bras to me, I don't like seeing the whole melon... Yikes! And preferably clothed, or the beach look looks nice, but not hot. That word doesn't apply to how I see females who look good Aethetically, rather pretty or cute.. *Along with female stomachs the stomach curve, belly button, and behind stomach region. *With guys I also love lean muscle (the Saitama body) Well, for those of us who don't feel kinks, or have fantasies, there are other preferences, or things we like that we pay attention to, maybe sometimes more than those who feel the horny. Instead of wanting to have sex with someone wearing latex, I just really really really think female stomachs look nice aesthetically, and appreciate all kinds of other little things other people often just ignore, or don't care to bring up. Well that's all from me...

Some ideas that just came from my head. Who are You Identity Inquiries Identity crisis - SOLVED (You have a big folder and at the end of each episode the word solved shows up in bold on the file, kind of like a detective case. Oh wait.) Orientation Detective umm if you want to use the name Quinn, Quinns got Questions. (alliteration is always fun) I can't really think of any more, but consider the detective or investigation theme, I think those type of names would go great with your podcast and its content...

When you say an aro feeling, I suppose you mean a feeling which is strictly aro, and devoid of romantic attraction or desires. Obviously there is a spectrum and some aros feel romantic, or don't quite know if they feel romantic or strictly aro ect. I am just saying this because some people might say that aros don't all feel the same way, and that's true, there is not one objective aro feeling that fits all of us. So to clarify your question, do you want to know if what your feeling is one someone like me, who is Apothi, and feels no romance would sometimes feel? I am going to assume so, and answer accordingly. (Feel free to let me know if I am misunderstanding your question) Ok, wanting to make her happy, but not in a romantic way. Yes I would have that feeling. Also you have known her a long time, and this makes you love her more. Thats something I understand as well. You want to date her because you love her, and you want to make her happy, and you would not feel comfortable dating somebody you met at a coffee shop somewhere. You wouldn't want to be super intimate with someone you just met, most people get that, even Allos, and myself. I understand this motive of wanting people to be happy, so they can stay with you, But I want to add some caution on this note. The cautionary note I want to add is about not seeing the relationship the same way. I just have a question, does she know you are Aromantic, or somewhere on the spectrum, and does she know what Aro means? If she knows, then she at least knows where you are coming from, and about your needs and so forth. If she doesn't know any of this then she could be mistaking your intentions for romantic ones, and would become shocked that you don't feel the same way she feels for you. Being able to have transparency, and understand each other, especially in this case, is important for keeping the relationship going strong. Maybe I am blowing this little part up to much, and she just doesn't have the same aro motives that you have, but she at least knows that you don't love her in a romantic way. This is definitely a good point to remember, make sure your relationship with this person allows you to be transparent with her about your own desires and needs as well as hers. Anyways, this is just my two sense. Overall your feelings don't seem romantic to me. If you don't feel your feelings are exactly romantic, then I would say to trust your judgement on them. And that would be all from me....

I have ideas... To me it sounds like you don’t experience a whole lot of romance besides a feeling of jealousy and wanting her for yourself thing which seems to be confusing you. So the question boils down too this. Is wanting someone to stay with you, and not leave for other people a sign of romantic attraction? Sometimes, it is, I can’t really answer this for you, because these are after all your feelings. What I can do is explain why this feeling isn’t always a sign of romance. On some other post about Amatonormativity, some of us Aros where talking about establishing emotional roots with people. That is having emotional longevity with people, finding a secure relationship that will last for some time. While societally finding roots is often done by marriage, or with romantic partners, this need not be the case for everyone. It sounds to me like you want to make emotional roots with this person, and this sentiment is shared by Aromantics, and Allos alike. Now this motive (which isn’t necessarily romantic) makes you want the person you love for yourself, in a jealous type way (which also isn’t necessarily romantic). It makes sense to me, from an Aro’s perspective, that you don’t like the idea of her dating other people because you are afraid of losing her. For a lot of Aro people, the one’s we love often leave us for romantic expeditions because they are valued more societally. It’s not unusual from an Aro’s perspective that you fear Romantic competition. Also keep in mind I am an Apothi Aro, which means I am easily repulsed by romance. I feel uncomfortable when people act romantically, or talk about romantic things. Sometimes there are just little romantic things like saying honey, which seems to annoy you as well. I bring this up because even for somebody like me, who is Apothi, these feelings of wanting security, and fearing losing people to all the Allos, totally make sense for me, and I don’t cringe at them because they don’t appear romantic to me. I am usually very aware of things I see as romantic motives and actions, and what you described is something even I would feel, and I think of myself as very very Aro. Anyway, I encourage you to take what I say as coming from a certain point of view on things, and from my own biased perspective. Hopefully this will help you understand more how you feel about the jealous feeling, and all that jazz... Also, if something I said doesn’t make sense, feel free to ask me a question... Thats all from me...

Just finished listening to an episode about aro ace joys from Sounds Fake But Ok, and its definitely not scripted. I thought you where saying that the show was scripted @Holmbo, but I didn’t realize the show was literally called sounds fake but ok...My bad... Anyways I would recommend the podcast, its entertaining and encouraging, would listen to it again...

Im no expert, but I would do this... If she still feels uncomfortable, then maybe you should just not talk about it again until she brings it up. I don’t think she feels ready to talk about this squish stuff just yet, for whatever reason... When she is ready to talk to you, then you can talk to her about it more, but I would not suggest talking about the squishes because she doesn’t appear comfortable with it. If she brings up the squish topic, then I would recommend that you ask her if she has any questions about it. I don’t know the person but the fact she said it felt too personal may mean she has some insecurities or something like that. Overall I would recommend treading slowly, and waiting for her to bring it up. Again I’m no expert, and definitely do whatever you think is best, this is just a recommendation, or a shot in the dark because I really don’t know the person, or the situation. In other words, take what I say with a grain of salt...

Welcome! I am also Apothiromantic, nice to see another person using the micro label. Enjoy your stay here!

@Holmbo What do you mean by it sounding fake? How is it fake? I haven’t listened to any of them yet, might listen tomorrow.... Do the people sound like they are reading scripts, that would be weird....

Hello aromazing! Love the name by the way... This forum has all kinds of interesting people to engage with, and it has definitely helped me deal with my Aro blues... Look forward to seeing you more on the forum in the future. Have fun!

Amatonormativity is such a problem because unlike the problems other orientations face, like heteronormativity, Aromantics are completely unknown and society acts like Aros are in some phase. At least people actually have a basic understanding about what the words gay, and lesbian mean, because of all the media representation. Aro characters on the other hand are hard to come by unless you are already aromantic, and actively looking for them. Aromantics suffer from a special pain, complete lack of societal awareness. On top of being an invisible orientation, Aros are invalidated constantly by movie characters who may have aro elements to them, but it turns out they where just going through a phase, and they had to open their heart back to love, blablabla, Yuck!! This is what happened to what’s his name, the guy who wears the crown, old 50s comic with a tv show adaptation, oh I forget, Jughead? Anyway, Invisibility, and your just going through a phase, but don’t worry you will find love (meaning marriage)... Thanks a lot for that sentiment, I know you mean it with good intentions, but no thanks... HAhaha You are totally not alone, I have this urge as well, a lot of us here do. It is probably the most common urge among us fellow aros, think about it. We move out of our family houses, our siblings or older brothers and sisters get married. Our friends go off to different colleges, or they are preoccupied with romantic partners. We end up finding everyone else moving away from us, and life makes us move along with it, except we end up alone, or without roots. Aro’s social sphere looks pretty bleak if you subtract family, because you don’t get along with them, and you exclude romantic dates. Then you just got some friends which for a lot of aro people don’t feel like people which will stick around. After your friends marriage, you may just see them every other Christmas, and maybe a few weeks in June for summer if you’re lucky... Ooof Society is set up to accommodate nuclear family units, not friends, polycules, or qprs. Society was made without our interests in mind, no wonder then that the way Aro’s find emotional security is uncertain. It would be cool if a bunch of Aro’s lived together, I would like to see a documentary on that maybe... Thats all, and thanks for reading!

hmmm, I’m just curious to know what you mean by false love in disguise.

Welcome, and enjoy your stay. Also love the quote signature, pretty nice!

I don’t think it was a bad idea, it was very brave of you to tell her how you feel, good job. From here I would recommend waiting for her to come to you, if you come to her about the letter it may appear like you are begging for her attention, and it will make you look clingy. It may even make you look to demanding of her attention. You know what they say in the movies, don’t call us we will call you. Wait for her to process the events, and the letter, and see what she says. Also, I should offer a disclaimer, I am no dating coach, or professional by any means. One more thing, I am sure you know already, but in case you are confused by the replies, let me quickly explain what aromanticism is. Aromance: Typically experience little to no romantic attraction. A lot of us do not experience crushes, nor do we think romance is the end all be all of love. We have a different love language, causing us to express our love differently than the romantic norm put upon us by societal pressures such as having a marriage, going on dates, ect. Yooo, I just realized this post is from 2019..... R.I.P. Uhhh hey man, I hope it worked out.... If she is gone, then maybe try this advice in a different situation. Should I even post this ..... Oh, what the hell...

The way I have heard most people talk about true love. "They are made for each other.” “After all the years those too are still happy with each other.” I heard a story one time, some guy was riding a bike, and saw a beautiful woman, love at first sight thing happened (whatever that means) and he crashed his bike. Kind of like back to the future if you have seen that. Then I remember whoever told me the story, I don’t remember who it was. The moral or meaning of the story was they both act and feel the same way as when they first met. Oh and of course the saying, there is somebody right for you, everyone has got somebody. What is the common theme that is connected to these examples of true love I have described? I would describe the main theme as a destiny filled with romantic vitality. Do I believe it? There are three ways I can answer this question One answer: (Im happy for you answer) Well, I believe when other people believe it for themselves, if finding their true love gives them meaning, good for them. I believe they know what gives them meaning, and that they have found this larger than words person who they have been happy with for a long time. If hypothetically I where to not believe it, this doesn’t make the experience not true for the one experiencing, and for them personally. Second answer: (What does it mean? I know.... it's a plot piece!) I share the confusion the other people on this post have. I can do the best I can to parrot what other people say about true love, and find commonalities between the different cultural views behind true love. Although this true love business seems like an overly dramatic story arc to me. I always thought the true love was simply a plot device to make movies and songs interesting or entertaining. I never liked the plot device. I instead enjoyed the chosen one plot piece, and it's similar to true love in the sense it involves destiny, and life purpose fulfillment. Third answer: (Destiny sounds nice, just take away the romance) Destiny is a nice thought. The idea that there is someone you may meet one day, who almost seems to be given to you as gift is an optimistic notion. Take away the romance and you have a friendship gift from the universe. I believe in true love in the friendship sense. True love friendship: A friendship where you can be yourself, loved for who you are, love the other person for who they are. Learn from each other, grow together. Contribute to society in some way together if you have similar interests. Enjoy a community of friends who are unique, and help make you stronger. People who don’t drag you down from your good qualities, but strengthen them, and make you a better you. You return the favor to them, and this love is not done for some other advantage but for its own sake, for its own good. Yada, yada yada, that is why I believe in true love. Just change the romantic connotations and you get two people who share a friendship filled with vitality and real love. Real love being a friendship where you can move passed the surface conversations and feel comfortable being real with people. Engaging in deep talk as I heard someone else put it. Diving deep and seeing the submerged iceberg not just the flakes on top. Thanks for reading this big monster, holy cow is it ever longer than I wanted it to be... Anyway, hope I contributed something interesting to the conversation...

Very well put Scarf fellow. Aro’s could use best friend instead of simply friend or really good friend, because it is closer to the intimate relationship target than just some friendly acquaintance. There is also the term besties which is used more by teenage girls which basically conveys the same meaning as best friend. On the other hand though Amatonormativity has also tainted the term best friend. Example: I married my best friend, or my wife/husband is my best friend. It may be too late to recover this term from the love monopoly now bum bum buummmmmm!! I fear the term best friend will be used primarily for romance, or if you mean it in a non romantic way, people will see it the same way the word friend is seen societally. Thats not to say the second meaning still relates to friendship but people using it for romance is a bad sign, and BF is becoming an alternative romantic term.

Ok, whats the first thing you think of when someone says this, Im in love with you... Immediate impression, the love is romantic. Ok, how about a more tricky example, but still a very simple example. Someone says, I love you. In this case the word can be used in a familial context, but what about a context with friends. What if you go out of your way to tell your friend you love them. It would be naive to say there is no romantic baggage to the word I love you in this context, especially between members of the opposite sex. Obviously its case by case how this phrase makes you feel. My view, saying I love you to a friend, smelly, it reeks of romance. I am apothi though, easily repulsed by little things which can be seen as romantic, or relating to romance. Before I start getting into the meat of these mini word walls, let me say this. How do you think Amatonormativity negatively impacts language. This is important because language informs how we communicate what we mean to others, and language is connected to the way you see the world, and classify the way you feel towards people. If you say I love you as a friend, well friend, what has that word been reduced to from the influence of monogamy? One more thing, let me sum up what Amatonormativity means for those who don’t know. Before I knew this long term Amatonorm.... I used a term that is very similar, the romantic love, or love monopoly. Basically, it's the assumption that the traditional view of getting married, having kids, and of course being romantic should be / is desired by everyone. This is bad for polyamorous people, aro people, and others who don’t fit this cookie cutter box. This naturally leads to traditional relationships seen as superior and above other relations. It's incredible that a simple phrase I love you carries so much baggage, and seems off in the friend context. This is a sign of amatonormativity for sure, because with friends your suppose to say I like him/her/they, but I love (priority/romantic interest) that person. Ok how about the word friend. A word which once was respected, but now, it’s societally seen as the lowest form of human relations. Romance top, family, dog is mans best friends lol, and friend. Essentially friend is on the same level as dog, I mean everyone loves their animals, but a wife/husband is on a whole other level from your dog. I say this because I see equating dog friendship with human human friendship as an insult to non monogamous relations. This equation sends human relations even lower societally. You have words like fiancé, and boyfriend which are highly respected, and celebrated. You have a boyfriend, good for you. You have a friend, uh... good for you man, wake me up when you start mingling--> (cultural attitude). This bleeds into, so your just friends? Oh yeah, this irks me. I think people have already touched on this phrase, but I just want to add something. I think this phrase right here is the epitome of amatonormativity. It reveals that romance should be and is everyones sole objective, why are you going on this side quest with that clown? that’s just friendship? that’s not the big pot of gold? It also reveals disappointment, oh I was expecting your relation with that person was special sunshine and rainbow romance. So there’s the word love which has been saturated by romance, the word friend which has lost its value in the public eye, and been equated with friendships between man and animal. Friendship occupies the lowest space in human relations. Friendships are never celebrated by families, that just sounds weird to even think of a family doing it. Why, well you know... Amatonorm.... I almost feel the need to use a different word than friend because it means so little societally and I feel so much more for people than this friend word that could be used for some guy you met briefly at a baseball game in the hot dog line. You know the expression, that guy makes friends everywhere he goes. Friends meaning eventful and interesting interactions between strangers... Ok, that about it.... What are your thoughts?

You didn't bring this upon yourself. Allo people never choose what their romantic orientation would be. In the same way you never had the option to choose to be aroace, you just are that way. Also, one of the reasons it feels selfish is due to the fact that aroaces have very specific needs which are often not understood in the suffocating invisible gas of amatonormativity. But just because you have different needs from most of your fellow humans, doesn’t make you selfish, it makes you very unique. You will find love, and be thankful your in the 21st century where it’s easier to find people with specific orientations ect. Thats a huge bonus people didn’t have until very recently.

Well I have eaten at a lot of restaurants, and fancy places, and the everyday flos dinner type place. Especially at more expensive places, employees refer to customers as sir/maam. But I have never heard employees say what would you like love/dear!?! Nope, I cant remember ever hearing that before. I would imagine allo people feel awkward when called dear by a complete stranger. Its strange that the customers dont bat an eye. Hmmm... Maybe the customers see the words as slightly weird but dont want to make a scene over it. They just want to order and eat. Anyway I think your doing a great job by using non-gendered language Blake. I also think it sounds more professional that way...

I Don’t need love by NIIC (Official music video) Sorry if you don’t like furries, Im not a furry by the way...Im not! lol. This song is my personal favorite! For Me by Dearlie (has asexual and aromantic aspects) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJxKlyrR_s (My second favorite, but close to my 1st fave..) There are other songs which are more for asexuals which I won’t include here. Those are actually the only aromantic songs I enjoy with lyrics. Other than these two I pretty much just listen to foreign vocals because I don’t know what they are saying. Especially Russian, Bosnian, and Japanese/Korean music... I am apothi which means romantic themes make me uncomfortable... Thats why I love these two songs, obviously not romantic or sexual, yay!

Hello, and welcome to the community fellow Aroace! Enjoy your stay...