Ikarus

Awesome

@MaxIsCosmicAre you talking about real life or a online timeout room for this site? Kind of like a zoom waiting room? If your talking about here on arocalypse then maybe it would help for the mods to send the people some helpful resources. I think the punishment is a mute from posting after a few warnings. A timeout room might be nice for the mods to calm theses people down. sorta like an admin sit in gmod haha. if it’s real life then a timeout room is a pretty wacky idea. You can’t hold someone in a room against their will and it certainly won’t help change their minds…

Michael Jackson songs. Some Eurobeat. Some Vaporwave. If I think its romantic I will never enjoy it. If it is romantic to others but I can spin it for myself and make it about something else it works. Really subjective I know. A neat trick for repulsed Aros like me who hates when anything becomes romantic. Works sometimes but not guaranteed. When She / Her is spoken, She is not a person… no no no. Think abstract, I sometimes create super deep weird metaphors that sometimes don’t even make sense to justify it lol. Anyway to my point. She is more than a person. She is the Boogie, the groove, the funk, the frequency. Her charms, beauty, spunk, smile, sparkling eyes. Thats the frequency, euphoria in your ears, the beat. She is not limited to a physical corporeal shell, she is free from the shackles of flesh. She is the music her smile that makes MJ go eheee!!! is that soul power that makes you want to get down on it. move your feet, fling your arms, makes you feel it.. Do u feel it now Mr Krabs?….She is soul power. Some songs just don’t hit me as super romantic for whatever reason. Im extremely picky over this, and can’t find any strong rhyme or reasons for why. Some times I can provide a reason. A thousand miles reminds me of being a younger kid, old youtube, nostalgic, makes me remember good memories from the past. A simpler time in my life. This is one of the only songs that gets a pass though, a lot of other ones from the time I won’t like. A lot of old sappy love songs my folks like for the memories they relate with those songs. We heard this on a road trip or at the beach / school played this, did this dance to it. The lyrics and meaning of the song aren’t always super important to the listener. Yeah, That’s about it…

They call it the American dream because you have to be asleep to believe in it. - George Carlin Gay gay gay gay gay gay!! You can’t stop us bigots!

Summary of this videos points Masculinity has changed throughout time, in Greek times it meant getting a wife through sex, to Germanic tribesman it was about protecting the woman and family, medieval europeans added chivalry and piety to protecting the woman, in the 19th century it became a conquest of breadwinning, providing for the wife and family through hard work and business. Notice any pattern? A man may feel that he is not living up to a definition of masculinity whether its by not being the strongest (unable to achieve the unrealistic goal of being GigaChad), by not being able to provide, by feeling emotions that are repressed. This hypothetical man copes with this crisis by turning to the external world and rejecting their internal struggles, a man looks for his symbolic lack to be filled by an idealized woman. Big problem though, woman are now members of the work force and are becoming societally equal to men. Basically woman's emancipation has taken away the cope machine from men on what gets to make them feel like the dude/CHAD. Men have to find a materialistic or internal way to fill this lack to feel like a man, that is why not all men feel this crisis but some feel the need to have a woman fill this symbolic lack. Now we see men acting reactionary against woman as their scapegoat (Andrew Tate cough cough) while peddling their own idealized version of what a woman should be to fill their symbolic lack. The more men struggle to fill this symbolic lack the more woman will begin to regress into the trad wife role. My thoughts Well I agree with YUGO in thinking masculinity needs to be re-evaluated, first men need to see that their definition of masculinity is one they get to choose for themselves and develop "A masculinity so ‘manly’ that it doesn’t give a damn how anyone chooses to express it.” YUGOPNIK There are some men who don’t struggle like this I feel the need to emphasize that again, but I think a lot of men are going on autopilot by using a self destructive societally prescribed view of masculinity. Although some men may nevertheless feel that this is the way they choose to express their masculinity. I don’t think it’s necessarily wrong when both partners genuinely want the trad life. I do think though that people change in a lifetime change could disrupt this lifestyle. Socioeconomics Another reason why this masculinity crisis is reaching such a peak these days is the difficulty of achieving the traditional family picket fence lifestyle of the baby boomers. Even if a woman wants to be a trad wife they may not be able to in todays modern economic turmoil especially in America where men and woman both have to work to survive. Materialistic conditions renders the trad wife / breadwinner lifestyle more and more obsolete with time. Also one of the big problems with mens coping mechanism is that many men feel that it is the only way to be masculine. Being unable to find a trad wife due to economic conditions affects the conventional breadwinner role dramatically. MGTOW I looked into the MGTOW (Men going their own way) community, I related with them on the basis that they don’t need to date woman, or get married. I thought cool a group of bros that are going there own way in society, finally some people who won’t talk about all of their bodies as bragging rights, obsess over trying to get a girlfriend, and talk about woman all the time in general. I wonder if they talk about history, or business, or life purpose, self improvement, or creative projects? MGTOW talked a little bit about their lifestyle, addressing common questions people would have towards them, sometimes they talked to other about philosophy, society, finding meaning. The more I stayed the more I realized, A lot of it, overwhelmingly was about woman... I found that rather ironic. Even with the MGTOW community, they are essentially trying to redefine masculinity but the majority of their members seem focused on the coping mechanism of woman. Is it even possible for men to redefine their masculinity beyond woman? Feminine socializing It seems like a femininity crisis isn’t as rampant as the masculinity one, but I still think there are problems with the way woman are socialized to become woman. Woman are socialized to be polite, obedient, meek, and gentle pursuing the attention and affections of men as top priority. Since when did confidence, and determination become the traits of one gender. Why can’t a woman ask a man out? She is supposed to wait for the mans attention instead of pursuing her interests or feelings at that moment. This is one of those situations where you see a woman doing the opposite of determining an action or pursuit for herself but rather waiting for attention to come her way. I think its really really weird... I also think woman need to re-evaluate their symbolic lack which is over attachment to the needs of another man or partner. There is also a suppression of their own interests from being societally conditioned not to have the confidence or determination to pursue goals outside getting a man. Here are some brutal questions more people need to consider. What does masculine mean without the feminine? What does the feminine mean without the masculine?

It depends, sometimes I hate it when I get hungry and it makes me stop doing something creative like writing. Then I enjoy the preparation once I start and have no problem once I take a bite out of a sandwich. Mmm mmm. for a brief moment I can be annoyed but other than that… I guess not.

Go crazy!! Go stupid!!! For running dramatically in slow motion

There is an interesting youtube essay I watched recently by TheBurgerkrieg on the emotional objectification of men. (At least for men there are some ideas that shed light on this "thinking your a creep feeling" in that video at 41:06) I don’t have any real experience with these feelings myself btw I am just relaying what the video said. Context of the video So the video subject matter handles male objectification from an anti-patriarchal perspective, and its inspired from a trans mans tweet. Basically the trans man relays his experience after transitioning from being seen as female to male. The trans poster described it as mourning the loss of a privilege that came with being perceived as a woman that he didn’t realize he had. Basically the video shows the oppression men also face under the patriarchy. The Creep feeling (sensitive topic; rape) This part of the video is not the biggest part by the way but it does come up (this creep feeling is discussed in relation to heterosexuals). The essayist took an extracurricular sex ed class which went over consent. The way the class went over it was very detrimental for him. His young brain at the time took the message as (your sexual desires are inherently dangerous to the woman you want to have sex with) Some comments said they related to this feeling, and described it as (being repulsed by the idea that you would make someone feel unsafe) Flirting, even complementing someones clothes cause some people to have strong negative internal feelings. Of course woman should take precautions around men because there are some dangerous people out there. Just wanted to say that. The Non Romantic part Compounds the already present Shameful Creep feeling Once you remove the romantic aspect from it people are left with only their sexual desires which some people see as (inherently dangerous and threatening to others). Whats more if you just express interest in someone sexually but not romantically people may think you are a very disturbed person. They may think you are a pervert who just wants to take advantage of others for your own selfish benefit, you are incapable of experiencing intimacy, you aren’t human, and all that jazz. @Fanz_0__Fire I wonder if by chance any of the people you talked to where woman and expressed a creepy feeling. Where most of them men?

Well... I never wanted a romantic relationship, in my case though I believed it was my fate to want and pursue one eventually. I told myself I wasn’t pursuing one because I was a "late bloomer", or I didn’t unlock the romance achievement yet. I started getting older, and older, and then it hit me when I was around 18 or 19. I had no romo interests... All the movies portray high schoolers feeling a very strong drive towards “Love” during senior year, so why wasn’t I? The idea of feeling a crush or having a romantic interest was actually frightening to me before knowing I couldn’t feel those romo things. I thought that at any time, without my consent, without any warning, a romantic crush feeling would hit me. When I watched a movie, seeing someone down the street, talking to a woman in my class (I’m male btw) the romance demon would eventually possess me with romantic desires. If I felt aesthetic attraction towards a woman I would think it was the beginning of romantic attraction and get worried. I should have known at that point that I was repulsed by romance, or at least not interested but I was still just a “late bloomer” in my mind.

Hey @Fanz_0__Fire, would you mind explaining what a smush is. Is it another way of saying squish or is it something else ?

(Kind of a big post but I had a lot I wanted to say so....here we go!) I wanted to make a post discussing romance as it appears in media such as books, songs, and movies. Why? Well I think the way romance appears in media may be inauthentic for most allos actual experiences. Also I found the thought, what actually is romance for most people if media portrays it in a showy manner to be a very interesting question. First of all if you look up the definition of romance this is what you will find. Merriam Webster a medieval tale based on legend, chivalric love and adventure, or the supernatural (2): a prose narrative treating imaginary characters involved in events remote in time or place and usually heroic, adventurous, or mysterious (3): a love story especially in the form of a novel b: a class of such literature Cambridge Dictionary Romance is also the feeling of comfort and pleasure you experience in a relationship with someone you love: Britannica the romance of the old West The novel evoked the romance of Paris in the 20s. The first few lines you see from Webster and other definitions describe an artistic form of media that has definitely influenced our society. It’s interesting to me that media seems to be so closely tied to romance and almost every definition begins with romantic media such as knight tales, prose etc. I included one of Cambridges definitions to comment on how incredibly vague it sounds. Sometimes in movies, rarely, but sometimes when the characters explain why they love each other to another they actually don’t sound “romantic woo woo over the top crazy weird” to me and I think... That could be a close friendship... But it’s romantic... Then they usually do something soon after that makes me cringe and go, ewww romance. For example I was watching Stranger Things season 4, 1st episode (spoiler alert but not that big of a spoiler.) Nancy and Johnathan Describe why they love each other to their friends and I felt so weird after they finished because I thought. That could totally be a friendship... How does that relationship become romantic? Does monogamy make it romantic? Well no poly people also do romance so.... I have absolutely no idea what romance is I guess but it still makes me cringe when I see it portrayed in certain ways. Anyway watching that scene and not cringing gave me a mini existential crisis because romance was portrayed differently. I usually cringe at romance because the only places I see it where it is very noticeable is in media. The two where describing each others unique character traits that caused them to be drawn to each other rather than a vague irresistible attraction or lustful overwhelming passion. By the way (PLZ DONT SPOIL STRANGER THINGS FOR ME) I have only seen 2 episodes of season 4 Anyway my parents where never very romantic, I never thought now their relationship is that special romance thing which is better than friendship... that special something... Im not saying my parents aren’t happy and loving to each other but nothing noticeable was really there for an onlooker, and not enough for a thrilling tale. What also inspired me to post this is this clip from Vaush where he describes his irritation with romance as its portrayed in popular movies, anime, and offers some examples of more authentic romance such as the Witcher 3 and full metal alchemist ( I haven’t seen or played either of these btw.) Apparently the witcher ok... (Spoiler for the witcher 3) So the there are two lovers but the only reason they love each other is due to a love potion or spell. The two actually break the spell because they are troubled by the fact that they may never know if their love is true. I also find it interesting how Vaush talks about very romantic people as being performative and making people happy but a true relationship typically requires communication and how communication is usually the most important factor in a successful relationship. Again I am surprised that an allo content creator such as Vaush finds romance irritating in media. I naively thought that everyone for the most part loved romance in media and to dislike it meant your'e the odd one out. I believe many allos are probably tired of the same romantic tropes in media like Vaush is. Vaush also talks about how this one animes romance arc could have easily been made more dramatic. The main character could have been seen with another woman and then the whole “he loves me he loves me not” “jealousy” “who will the protagonist be with” drama. It seems to me unnecessary drama seems to drive a lot of romantic plots as well, reality shows thrive off of this. Most romance could be super low-key relationships where the two grow a deeper fondness from each other through time. Again, what I just described with the “fondness that grows deeper through time” could totally be a friendship. What is the distinguishing factor that completely separates romance from friendship when the monogamy, and the romantic media are taken out of the equation. This vague but it’s romantic, and I just think... Why aren’t those people friends then... What a relationship romantic? What is romance? I don’t know if what I just typed only made sense to me but maybe you get what I mean, and maybe not. Well anyways that’s about it, I’m looking forward to your thoughts on this subject matter. What irritates you about romance as it is portrayed in media? Do scenes where people explain why they love each other sometimes click for you but you think, that could totally be a friendship though?

I love skeletons, I love vaporwave. Combined = A E S T H E T I C simple as

@DeltaV I remember seeing that character from the thanks my name is Felix meme. That situation in the vid demonstrates your point. Dude assumed the cosplayer who dressed femininely was female, then Felix spoke. Classic… Although this encounter could have triggered some deep soul searching, am I really straight?!?haha.. You can’t have your cake and eat it to. Although if the non-binary person expressed themselves as male at work and while in public without expecting or needing emotional support or not interested in knowing their fellow employees well in those situations then they could benefit I suppose. If the non-binary never invited others from work or from their local restaurant into their private life then I don’t see a problem with the whole “your being a girly man” thing It can be very easy to avoid people knowing you well these days unless you post your whole life on Facebook/ Twitter every day. In my opinion at least I don’t find the 3D chess game as a mostly restrictive strategy for some peoples lives and needs. This is just one situation, there are many situations but the one I described seems like it could happen for a lot of people. If we where living in a small town in the 1800s without so many people, workers at jobs, short distances. Everyone could know people a lot easier. Weird idea, what if I dressed androgynous, expressed myself with an androgynous personality/ voice. Assuming I also looked androgynous with my face and body, never dressed this way yet. Any gender advantages with being super androgynous? Would I be treated half male half female? How would society treat someone who is full on androgynous? I think people would think, are u man or woman, what’s between your legs. Beyond that though Idk. Would people allow androgynous people to express their feelings? Apparently androgyne is a androgynous type gender identity as well hmmm.

John Paul Jones is a Pirate' but you just saw him sink a first rate with a rowboat

Anime tropes? The only anime I’ve ever watched was one punch man a long time ago. What are these anime tropes though because as far as I know they also may exist outside anime? Well @DeltaVLets say a non cis person realizes a connection between certain clothes or a stereotypical personality trait. This connection is other peoples typical reaction to it. Perhaps they don’t want to risk being treated a certain way for acting / dressing that way in a specific context or in public. Then these non cis people play a little 3D chess. I don’t see why (how gender should work vs how it really works) should invalidate the 3D chess. What do you mean by emphasizing this idea vs reality thing? The non-cis person is simply going meta on gender and typical reactions. The non cis person can simply dig the clothes without feeling a strong gender connection with them. They can change their voice or personality for environments that could be either awkward or dangerous to act that way. Example: A guy crying for instance may feel more comfortable expressing it with his woman friends than his bros. There’s a variety of situations where people can play 3D chess. By the way im not trying to debate bro you, I just want to learn something new from your point of view.

Yes and No. No because I am aromantic and repulsed to romance, yes because I want societal goodies (Legal and financial incentives) and if my future aro friend, whoever that may be wants those goodies, then why not. Honestly I don't care if other people think we are married because we must love love romantically since we are married (whatever). One of my biggest fears though that makes me want to get married is medical decisions. If I am incapacitated and I am likely going to be living far far away from my family then I want to know I can be taken care of, and I want to be able to help another aro in that scary situation as well. Also I don't like the idea of not being able to see my friend in the hospital because (I am not family.) And the only way to see them would be to be recognized as family in the eyes of the state. So technically yes but not for romantic reasons.

First off what do I mean by gender advantages? Well It’s what you probably think but I will give an example. I like wearing traditionally feminine clothes as an amab, the color pink, and tried acting more (some would say girly / having interest in things girls are usually interested in.) In public life though I find it more convenient to present my gender expression as traditionally masculine. I don’t like the way women are treated by men mostly for dressing cute/pretty, being even a little feminine would give me unwanted attention. For others gender advantages could be an added bonus for a non-binary afab androgynous looking woman to dress in suits and talk with a deeper voice, or even act more masculine. Here’s An added bonus for appearing/ expressing yourself more femininely. You can express your feelings more without appearing weak or being called names if your a man. There are more advantages and disadvantages but I think that gender advantages definitely influences peoples gender expression and the clothes we wear to some degree. How do gender advantages influence your expression? Can gender advantages play a considerable role in gender expression? Id love to know your thoughts.

Hope it all goes well for you! And remember that you can’t control what other people do and say but you can control your own responses. They may not get it at first so remember to be patient. Allo people can say a lotta weird things so just know they don’t understand that no romance is possible yet if they say you’ll find the right one etc. People like categorizing others into boxes they understand and do it out of habit. Again it may take time for them to get their heads around being aromantic because of amatonormativity and everyone else’s experience including their own not matching your aro lenses. With that said I wish you the best of luck, you got this!

What you just described fits the lithoromantic label very well. Lithoromantics feel romantic attraction until romantic attraction is reciprocated by another. https://aromantic.fandom.com/wiki/Lithromantic Heres a meme I made depicting the lithoromantic experience.

FYI (Im amab cis agender) I experience aesthetic attraction towards woman more than men. My physical attraction is far lower than my aesthetic attraction. I experience physical attraction towards woman more than men. Feminine looking men / androgynous / femboy / tomboys can also cause aesthetic attraction. I feel less inclined to cuddle with masculine guys but I wonder if thats societal conditioning? I also experience a lot of intellectual / emotional attraction towards all genders and lack thereof. I think these last two go without saying, lots of people experience them and don’t bother naming them as an attraction. I want to label them because they are the most important attractions to me.

@roboticanaryUnfortunately I cannot find that video clip. That tik tok clip has an image of some study or something. I wish I could remember more details. What I do know is the image had to be about aro labeled as a mental disorder in CA. Knowing what I now know thanks to all your replies I can safely say that video is probably factually inaccurate.