Ikarus

I still think Trump is the one we should all be worried about despite all the recent controversy and negative media which we can see has emboldened his supporters before and I don’t see that stopping anytime soon.. Even if Trump where in prison or under investigation still for the espionage act he would still be more popular than Desantis. Trump fans would love him more since the deep state is trying to lock up our American savior, (Trump is literally portrayed as a prophetic icon acting in Gods will, this is believed in some Christian circles now.) Desantis has no spice, no razzle dazzle. He’s not entertaining passionate, or motivating like Trump. Even Trump criticizes him for saying woke too much, the man is a low energy discount Trump wanna be. Trump is the real danger not Ron “DeSanctimonious“. As Trump nicknames him.

Im not touch averse for context which is why I want to ask a rather oddly specific random question about a time people touch you to get a job done. Im talking about haircuts, getting your haircut requires touch does that bother any of you? Or maybe not since its not intentionally romantic or emotional in any way just getting a job done. Just curious.🤔

I have attended three weddings this month alone. Two cousins and my friends wedding. Just got back from my friends wedding as I am typing this. Just wondering if you enjoy attending weddings as an aro despite the romance. As an apothi aro I feel uncomfortable at the kissing and my eyes wander a little but other than that. Great food Desserts Friends and family I enjoy hanging out with. Definitely a different experience if you are good friends with the groom like I was. We had a very fun bachelor party and did some shenanigans. What are your thoughts on going to weddings and even bachelor parties if you ever went to one?

@Isa1116 I found eclipses account. https://www.arocalypse.com/profile/9335-eclipse/ I mean how long has eclipse really been gone. They are probably just trying to figure things out or busy with life.

How many aromantics here apply RA to their relationships? If you don’t know what im talking about dont worry i’ll try explaining it briefly. Relationship anarchy rejects the societal norms of “just friends” “in relationship” “fwb” “open relationship”. Instead of accepting these categories and their expectations relationship anarchists start with a clean slate and tailor each relationship to the individuals. Furthermore RA believe relationships should not be bound by societal rules, instead rules should be agreed upon mutually by the individuals. The RA manifesto: https://theanarchistlibrary.org/library/andie-nordgren-the-short-instructional-manifesto-for-relationship-anarchy The 9 articles of Relationship Anarchy Love is abundant, and every relationship is unique Love and respect instead of entitlement Find your core set of relationship values Heterosexism is rampant and out there, but don’t let fear lead you Build for the lovely unexpected Fake it til’ you make it Trust is better Change through communication Customize your commitments That’s pretty much it. If you have any critiques or ideas on the 9 articles I would like to discuss them.

Actually, lemme rethink this because I dunno if marriage actually works for me. If your aro like me you value your freedom to be around more than one person without judgement. I would never get married if the two of us cannot agree to allow other people in our lives. If we cannot agree to relationship anarchy and a sense of polygamy then definitely no. The trick would be finding someone you believe you would likely spend most if not all of your life with… Although marriage reeks of monogamy and to even think about singling somebody out from others puts a sour taste in my mouth. I saw many others in the replies with similar sentiments. To have a special friend just feels off putting. Marriage feels like a lottery, to think that throughout marriage the two shall grow and change together compatibly despite changing interests, personalities, and beliefs. Quite a naive pipe dream in my view. For the monogamous people who stay together for life, happily that is, well that seems damn well difficult. Life long monogamous types have something special considering the divorce rate. Basically the nature of monogamy, and the fact people often change and may become incompatible or apathetic gives me ample reason to doubt marriage even if I got a lot of goodies. The long story short, Its going to be trickier than I naively thought just moments ago.

@HarvestYour absolutely right. I haven’t considered that some people blame men on an individual level for not talking about their feelings along with talking about their feelings. A double bind … sheesh! Also you’ve convinced me to rephrase the issue whenever I mention it. I assume everyone knows the why around men not talking about their feelings, but they might not, especially women who haven’t been given these roles, nor live with the same gender expectations. @DeltaAro Piggybacking off your nitpick examples, mental health is also costly. Hard to get it, and hard to keep going to get good results. Double wammy. @AtypiqueI want to clarify, Im saying people use to socialize more, go bowling maybe. Now people bowl alone more. Im not talking about the quality of friendships , im just saying the the culture has changed dramatically. Im reading a book right now on this phenomenon called bowling alone.

@Harvest Your absolutely right. I haven’t considered that some people blame men on an individual level for not talking about their feelings along with talking about their feelings. A double bind … sheesh! Also you’ve convinced me to rephrase the issue whenever I mention it. I assume everyone knows the why around men not talking about their feelings, but they might not, especially women who haven’t been given these roles, nor live with the same gender expectations.

Obviously for gender non conforming people but also for cis people. I think people overlook how inherently toxic gender roles can be. What are the problems I find with the mainstream gender roles? Generally speaking men are aggressive and emotionally suppressed. Woman are either passive or nurturing. Men generally never discuss their emotions and woman are exploited by abusive broken men to nurture them as a personal psychiatrist. Men are uncomfortable with seeing psychiatrists or discussing emotions with friends. Also friendships and socializing in general has eroded dramatically from how it once was so theres that big hole in mens lives. Men unload all of their unprocessed and suppressed emotions on one woman and expect her not to be overwhelmed but to nurture him. This is not smart and not right for both people. woman become exploited since they’re socialized to perform their nurturing gender role towards men. This is often exploited by men and society. Men are exploited by having their emotions suppressed due to not wanting to appear weak. This is exploited by the war machine in a way. Men find brotherhood and strong bonds during war. Men share feelings in these spaces and form friendships deeper than high school buddies who dip out after college. A lot of this can go further back to the patriarchy but thats another discussion and one I am just now beginning to truly understand. What do you find problematic about masculine and feminine gender roles? Do you find these gender characteristics negatively influencing your life, or pressuring you to act certain ways that feel uncomfortable?

Allos are confusing but not in a way that makes me want to figure them out. I love a good mystery but in the case of romance I am content being ignorant regarding the what and why to their being. Allos love and value human relationships differently than I do. Thats all I can really know about them. Also im repulsed by romance which makes me cringe at the idea of binge watching romantic media to “understand” romance.

Yes I am able to continue my friendships. We usually meet during the summer for some beach days and stuff, text and what not. But for me personally to sustain isn’t necessarily a good thing. The word sustainable, I have some thoughts on this word. This word means to continue, to maintain, etc. Now when I think of that word for my friendships it means they are surviving, staying in tact. I want my friendships to thrive not stay on life support. Also for me seeing my friends only a few times a year, or every couple months which is more than I see my friends is a rather lonely existence. So yes my friendships are surviving but not thriving.

So romance ain't for you, you want friends, but you live in America. Well buckle up because its gonna be a fantastically odd experience. What do you find strange about the ways American socialize as either someone from the states or from overseas? TLDR: Friendships in America are hard to maintain, and to get after high school or college, cars, shopping centers contribute to this difficulty. Once you have a friendship people especially men typically do activities the majority of the time, not sharing themselves. People are unapproachable and unsociable, even paranoid to begin with. Meeting strangers for outings is like tinder dates in a way without romance and really weird since you have no propinquity. Distance in place or time People don’t always say what they mean making it hard to form genuine connections. Compared to America is it easier to meet people and socialize overseas? What do you think American friendship culture is all about? Heres a list of random factoids that seem rather random but play a roll in this American friendship culture in my view. (More in depth deep dive) Cars, atomization, subdivisions. The ways to meet new people are not supported by society after high school where everyone was your age, and you spent time with each other for years. I partly blame cars, parking lots, shopping centers, and suburban planning with no walkable cities. Enjoyable public spaces where you can meet new people, hang out with friends, relax and eat outside without looking at cars and an employee telling you to leave for the next customer to sit. 3rd places would help out a lot. Having an environment that encourages community rather than solely profit oriented shopping centers and atomized city planning is paramount for socializing. Rush subdivisions “Any escape might help to smooth The unattractive truth But the suburbs have no charms to soothe The restless dreams of youth” Only an American thing? Idk but men aren’t getting the ladies, and this affects friendship dynamics across the board. Men will abandon a friendship with ease for the chance of getting feminine attention. Once they are dating you rarely see them. Are incels on the rise outside the states? incel means Involuntary celibates btw. Friendships come and go so quickly in the states, and friend groups start splitting apart very quickly after joining the workforce. You notice your parents never really talk to their friends from long ago, or they have new friends. Mostly they talk with family, Grandma, relatives, inlaws, meeting the grandchildren. Friendships are ultimately very transactional here. Theres no loyalty or desire to make friendship bonds familial or lasting. People use each other for activities , for clubbing buddies, for free therapy without care about you in return, for your personality, for business, for social status points, for answers in school. Friendships are all self absorbed / self benefited, not about sharing yourself and keeping in touch, actually liking that person and staying around for many years to come. The economy does not support friendships either for example people moving for work. Genuine connection is difficult, since people are socialized from a young age not to say what they mean under the vin ere of politeness. This training is for work interactions, awkward greeting interactions essentially. In friendships though you have to show the other person who you are and that doesn’t seem to happen much. Men never talk feelings so theres that. Maybe they say, I have a crush on x during middle school but thats the extent of it. I really don’t know my friends of 9 years that well on a personal level. Guys usually enjoy doing shared activities, competing with video games, watching shows, talking legos, joking around, sharing memes. But under neath all that how do I know them, how would I if we never genuinely shared ourselves. Also when you develop different interests, and your friendships are based on enjoying shared activities, how are those friendships suppose to last. If you don’t know who each other are outside of, I like this game, and Star Wars, and collecting action figures, how are you supposed to stay friends? People are there for the activity not for getting to know you. People are actors. When people say how are you? Are you okay? do you feel they really mean it, or they’re saying that to be polite due to their social conditioning? Asking for contact information after college or high schools while never hearing from anyone. Meeting them in public but never hearing back from them about going to lunch. People don't mean what they say and do, they act. Flakers A few examples Rid gives on her channel (I don’t know her name). She was in a zoom class during the pandemic and everyone was asked, how are you all coping from the pandemic? Some people where honest and said it was depressing, others said yes I am coping and lied. Again do the teachers actually ask genuinely? Another, Rid wears her hair in a big bun and asks others what they think. She finds it hard in this culture to believe people aren’t just pretending to like it. She wants to hear it looks terrible, if thats your honest opinion, but honesty is rare. “All the world's indeed a stage And we are merely players Performers and portrayers Each another's audience Outside the gilded cage” Rush limelight inspired by Shakespeare People just come and go because there’s rarely real connections, sharing who each other are. People are so polarized about politics here it’s almost impossible to find people who just want to chill. I mean Im not saying politics isn’t important, its dumb but still very important. Also its hard to be friends with someone whose political party espouses discrimination as a virtue. Im very political myself. Im afraid the environments not going to change anytime soon but it wasn’t like it is now. I need to talk about cold approach and dating because this relates a lot to the lack of propinquity. The definition, nearness in place or time. Back in the olden times people lived in the same village or area their entire lives. People weren’t going out with strangers to dinner. No no, they where already well acquainted, they just finally had time to be by themselves one on one to know each other more. Now people go out with complete strangers, or they meet at clubs or bars. Going up to someone you don’t know for a date / cold approaching 🥶, its not natural. Theres a reason people have social anxiety. This environment is whack, its not how we lived for many years up until now. Going out with strangers is weird. Aros go on outings with strangers perhaps for non romantic reasons but the same awkwardness exists. The social anxiety is natural, you don’t know this person at all really. its hard to find people who are actually interested in getting to know you and share themselves genuinely to begin with. Its all smoke and mirrors fakery. Antisocial Paranoid Isolationists Now all this is assuming you talk with someone to begin with but even thats an issue. People have icewalls around them, there’s even a term for talking with strangers, breaking the ice. Interesting term, it’s referring to this isolation mentality Americans tend to have. People aren’t very sociable from default making meeting new people rather awkward to attempt. There’s also stranger danger paranoia here. I am a rock I am an Island Paul Simon People even are islands in crowds they stick in groups and don’t interact with each other. Only talk to who you know but how are you suppose to meet NEW people in this type of environment. Society tells you the problem is with the individual, and then there’s self improvement. Self improvement is helpful sure, but its cope for a bigger issue. Interacting should be natural not met with awkwardness and ice barriers. It seems the general attitude is that society is normal and works out only individuals are to blame for their own problems. I think the society is unable to see its own faults. Its the individuals fault not society, thats the big lie. If your not maintaining a fake social mask, insert wojack meme. Break the npc bit and say your unhappy then your seen as strange. On the inside many people are unhappy but unwilling to question why, or the society limiting them sociably. Americans develop inferiority complexes to mask their true demons and anxieties. Suppress yourself and be normal or else your a weirdo. The big people sociably are actors. Coincidence, I think not. They are literally fake, putting on facades, you have to be fake to thrive here. People are programmed not to see any of this. If you complain then people fear being labeled a loser. People have very surface leveled shallow conversations, I mean we don’t have to talk philosophy, the state of the world, etc., but just share who you are. The time, energy and investment it takes to meet new people in this type of environment along with one big hindrance amatonrmativity makes finding people long lasting friendships very difficult. Is it easier to meet people and socialize overseas? Where do you live and how is it easier than the states? Do you live here and have some experiences of your own with some of the topics I mentioned? What do you think American friendship culture is all about? If you read this far, jee wizz, hope you got something out of my long dithyramb. Meaning long exhortation to American friendship dynamics. Some vids that inspired me footnotes Rid97527 (The problem with friendships in America) https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=OJIFJ9GndQ8 Not Just bikes third places https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=VvdQ381K5xg Fin.

Well this might help, don’t look at her for more than 5 seconds if she’s not talking to you. Oh and If she talks to you just be honest and make your intentions crystal clear. That’s about all I can add. And always remember you can’t control what others do, you can only control your response to others. One more quick question. Why did you look at her, or did you stare? You thought she was pretty? Just wondering… Ya know there’s a difference. Socially speaking IF, not saying you did but IF you stared for 20 seconds, thats tops, kind of a long time wouldn't you say, how long are we talking. 👀 I can totally get why shes hounding you if you totally stared, I mean she probably thinks your madly in love with her but your too shy to speak with her. If you continue to avoid her it could make her even stranger because allos get something called hard to get attraction. If your out of reach then she will want you more. I would probably approach her if I where you so she doesn’t get her hopes up or get more attracted and do something strange like buy you chocolates but hey that might be nice actually without the romance haha.

I wonder if any sex positive allo aces / aro aces will ever respond. Might just blab a little here to give this a boost. Maybe someone will take notice who knows.

Yea I think Its useful, thanks for making it. Monogamy is one of the weirdest human phenomenons for me, but it makes a lot more sense in theory when it’s broken down into 4 categories.

You find yourself imagining a romantic relationship with this person, but the thought of actually acting on it causes feelings of uneasiness and discomfort. Do I have that right? It’s possible that you may be aegoromantic. Its an identity labeling people who enjoy the idea more than the actual reality of romantic activities. Nevertheless the fact you feel uncomfortable around romantic moments is definitely something you shouldn’t ignore, and I don’t think ignoring it will make it go away. But…it’s your feelings, you will have to decide whether these feelings of discomfort are from nervousness towards new horizons or a warning to be heeded. Before you talk with them about a romantic relationship I would recommend you journal to yourself and reflect on why you feel uncomfortable. Journaling whats on your mind has always helped me.

If I had a kid I would name that kid seven. Sounds good for a guy or a girl, or neutral. Seven There’s another snazzy name that sounds very sophisticated, and proper. Isosceles No joke…

Your not a late bloomer, if you haven’t felt it now odds are you never will because romance isn’t an achievement in a video game that you suddenly unlock. Never had crushes, feel repulsed by kissing in movies, wonder why you cant be friends with the opposite sex instead of having to marry, why can’t I just chill with the boys in a mancave? Bro, that’s totally aro, your aro, and your not alone! It’s not easy being aro, it can be hard to find people but don’t give up. There are people waiting to meet someone just like you.

I have a theory about why allos say “using someone”. So basically romance and sex are often very interlinked. At least I think this is true for a lot of them. Because of the interlink someone may develop romantic feelings to another which are not reciprocated. The one feeling romantic accuses the other of leading them on. 1 they weren’t telling them they weren’t feeling romantically. Leading them on. 2. They are mad they weren’t feeling anything and blame the other for being heartless out of a temporary fit. But people can also have casual sex of course but it may not be as pleasurable for allos without the romantic element. So if someone gets romantic feelings with someone during or after casual sex, then hows it the other’s fault when they both agreed it was casual before sex? If the other starts wanting a romantic relationship the other person is totally in the right to refuse in this case without being accused of using anyone since no one was leading anyone on. I could totally be wrong this is just a shot in the dark.

@Neon Definitely agree with everything you said. But optics for allos is still very important and an easy way for allos to better understand the more complex aro characters is for them to understand simpler characters who experience absolutely no romantic attraction. Since allos would realize, oh you can exist without having romantic attraction, which is the foundation of being aromantic. Having both types of representation is important, both simple and more complex. Representation can become confusing and alienating if its primarily about more complex aros without also having examples of simple aro types. Also rep can become exclusionary if the simple type of aro becomes the image in everyone eyes stereotyping all aros. Here are a few different categories of aros generally speaking of course. "Complex aro: feels romantic attraction sometimes, like the idea but not the reality, has a romantic partner / qpr, can't distinguish romance and platonic love." "Simple aro: never dates, thinks romance is weird, stays single, never feels any crushes, only has friends not a romo partner." Other aros: Romantically neutral, might try dating but doesn't care much for romance, etc. Im no expert on aro fictional characters but I wonder if there are more simple aro's depicted right now or more complex types. I haven't heard many examples at all depicting simple aros. It seems the majority are more complex types of aros at least in the mainstream like cartoons shows etc. I think we need at least one simple type of aro who actually calls themselves aromantic in the mainstream. But its tricky because we don't want that simple aro rep to stereotype all aros...A more complex aro and a simple one in the same media would work nicely

A lot of this discussion is about how it makes the aro community feel, representing everyone, and thats great. Its important to showcase a variety of experiences so allos understand not all aros are the same and there is indeed a spectrum. That there is not a perfect aromantic experience. But I think the point that gets lost in this discussion is starting off with something very simple so the allos understand what it means to be aromantic. A lot of allos seriously struggle with the very simple concept that someone doesn't feel any romantic attraction. They say oh your'e a late bloomer, who hurt you, ya know the drill. So imagine this from the average allos perspective who struggles to comprehend someone living without romance due to how much amatonormativity there is in the world. Allos don't even know that amatonormativity exists at first before meeting aros most of the time. So now you have very very little aro representation and the first bit of aro rep they ever see is someone who can't tell the difference between romance and sex as well as aesthetic / platonic attraction, may or may not have crushes that come and go (that may seem normal to them, oh yeah I have them come and go.) gets in romantic relationships (I do that says the allo). With all of these traits added on top of the aromantic identity don't you think an allo could lose sight of the main point (aro = little to no romantic attraction). Also remember allos don't distinguish sex and romance most of the time so this may not seem that different from their own experience. I believe that often times the romance and sex are interconnected for many allos. The character identity is going off in so many different directions, and if hypothetically this type of rep is the primary form then it could be rather confusing optics for many allos. For Aros that are involved with forums like this, they research labels, know other aros, know about the SAM model, have spent a lot of time questioning they know about these nuances and what it means to be aro very well because its personal for them. For an allo they are not likely to put as much effort into understanding aros. Don't get me wrong, we need to have a wide array of experiences showing what it means to be aro. But I think it would be very good if we also had representation that gives easy optics for allos who are just wrapping their heads around the fact that you can experience no romantic attraction. If we have characters that are simple, for example one who never dates, thinks romance is weird, stays single, never feels any crushes, only has friends not a romo partner. That would be a pretty good start optically so allos can grasp the idea that someone can not feel any romantic attraction and we can live a happy life like this. If we can get allos to understand that alone then its a big victory for the aro community.

None..I hate grapes

What makes her Aro? She chooses the life of a shepherdess over marrying any of her suitors. A bunch of smitten lads fall for her but she warns them that it is futile to pursue her. These love stricken shepherds fill the forest with hearts with Marcellas name on it and add crowns proclaiming her to be the most beautiful. Then this guy named Grisóstomo tragically commits suicide and blames his self annihilation on Marcelas cruelty. The shepherds make a funeral for their friends and despise Marcela. Suddenly the shepherdess comes out of the woods to announce these criticisms against her name by giving a speech. This all happens in Chapter 14 Part 1 I believe. I was very surprised to someone who acted so aromantic to be in a book about a knight comically and or tragically trying to find his princess. Thats all we see from her in the book. There are other examples of Aro type characters who are mythological gods or goddesses of chastity but I mean...Chastity is a choice usually made for religious or spiritual reasons. Besides these characters are not human beings, they are deities. I think Marcela is as Aro as you can get for a book written way back in 1605. Thats some old school aro representation right there.