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Ikarus

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    ApothiAroAce
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  1. Very well put Scarf fellow. Aro’s could use best friend instead of simply friend or really good friend, because it is closer to the intimate relationship target than just some friendly acquaintance. There is also the term besties which is used more by teenage girls which basically conveys the same meaning as best friend. On the other hand though Amatonormativity has also tainted the term best friend. Example: I married my best friend, or my wife/husband is my best friend. It may be too late to recover this term from the love monopoly now bum bum buummmmmm!! I fear the term best friend will be used primarily for romance, or if you mean it in a non romantic way, people will see it the same way the word friend is seen societally. Thats not to say the second meaning still relates to friendship but people using it for romance is a bad sign, and BF is becoming an alternative romantic term.
  2. Ok, whats the first thing you think of when someone says this, Im in love with you... Immediate impression, the love is romantic. Ok, how about a more tricky example, but still a very simple example. Someone says, I love you. In this case the word can be used in a familial context, but what about a context with friends. What if you go out of your way to tell your friend you love them. It would be naive to say there is no romantic baggage to the word I love you in this context, especially between members of the opposite sex. Obviously its case by case how this phrase makes you feel. My view, saying I love you to a friend, smelly, it reeks of romance. I am apothi though, easily repulsed by little things which can be seen as romantic, or relating to romance. Before I start getting into the meat of these mini word walls, let me say this. How do you think Amatonormativity negatively impacts language. This is important because language informs how we communicate what we mean to others, and language is connected to the way you see the world, and classify the way you feel towards people. If you say I love you as a friend, well friend, what has that word been reduced to from the influence of monogamy? One more thing, let me sum up what Amatonormativity means for those who don’t know. Before I knew this long term Amatonorm.... I used a term that is very similar, the romantic love, or love monopoly. Basically, it's the assumption that the traditional view of getting married, having kids, and of course being romantic should be / is desired by everyone. This is bad for polyamorous people, aro people, and others who don’t fit this cookie cutter box. This naturally leads to traditional relationships seen as superior and above other relations. It's incredible that a simple phrase I love you carries so much baggage, and seems off in the friend context. This is a sign of amatonormativity for sure, because with friends your suppose to say I like him/her/they, but I love (priority/romantic interest) that person. Ok how about the word friend. A word which once was respected, but now, it’s societally seen as the lowest form of human relations. Romance top, family, dog is mans best friends lol, and friend. Essentially friend is on the same level as dog, I mean everyone loves their animals, but a wife/husband is on a whole other level from your dog. I say this because I see equating dog friendship with human human friendship as an insult to non monogamous relations. This equation sends human relations even lower societally. You have words like fiancé, and boyfriend which are highly respected, and celebrated. You have a boyfriend, good for you. You have a friend, uh... good for you man, wake me up when you start mingling--> (cultural attitude). This bleeds into, so your just friends? Oh yeah, this irks me. I think people have already touched on this phrase, but I just want to add something. I think this phrase right here is the epitome of amatonormativity. It reveals that romance should be and is everyones sole objective, why are you going on this side quest with that clown? that’s just friendship? that’s not the big pot of gold? It also reveals disappointment, oh I was expecting your relation with that person was special sunshine and rainbow romance. So there’s the word love which has been saturated by romance, the word friend which has lost its value in the public eye, and been equated with friendships between man and animal. Friendship occupies the lowest space in human relations. Friendships are never celebrated by families, that just sounds weird to even think of a family doing it. Why, well you know... Amatonorm.... I almost feel the need to use a different word than friend because it means so little societally and I feel so much more for people than this friend word that could be used for some guy you met briefly at a baseball game in the hot dog line. You know the expression, that guy makes friends everywhere he goes. Friends meaning eventful and interesting interactions between strangers... Ok, that about it.... What are your thoughts?
  3. You didn't bring this upon yourself. Allo people never choose what their romantic orientation would be. In the same way you never had the option to choose to be aroace, you just are that way. Also, one of the reasons it feels selfish is due to the fact that aroaces have very specific needs which are often not understood in the suffocating invisible gas of amatonormativity. But just because you have different needs from most of your fellow humans, doesn’t make you selfish, it makes you very unique. You will find love, and be thankful your in the 21st century where it’s easier to find people with specific orientations ect. Thats a huge bonus people didn’t have until very recently.
  4. Well I have eaten at a lot of restaurants, and fancy places, and the everyday flos dinner type place. Especially at more expensive places, employees refer to customers as sir/maam. But I have never heard employees say what would you like love/dear!?! Nope, I cant remember ever hearing that before. I would imagine allo people feel awkward when called dear by a complete stranger. Its strange that the customers dont bat an eye. Hmmm... Maybe the customers see the words as slightly weird but dont want to make a scene over it. They just want to order and eat. Anyway I think your doing a great job by using non-gendered language Blake. I also think it sounds more professional that way...
  5. I Don’t need love by NIIC (Official music video) Sorry if you don’t like furries, Im not a furry by the way...Im not! lol. This song is my personal favorite! For Me by Dearlie (has asexual and aromantic aspects) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MCJxKlyrR_s (My second favorite, but close to my 1st fave..) There are other songs which are more for asexuals which I won’t include here. Those are actually the only aromantic songs I enjoy with lyrics. Other than these two I pretty much just listen to foreign vocals because I don’t know what they are saying. Especially Russian, Bosnian, and Japanese/Korean music... I am apothi which means romantic themes make me uncomfortable... Thats why I love these two songs, obviously not romantic or sexual, yay!
  6. Ikarus

    Hi!

    Hello, and welcome to the community fellow Aroace! Enjoy your stay...
  7. I just thought it would be interesting to discuss cuddling. It's something I have never done, and I don’t know if I would ever feel comfortable doing it. There is the idea of cuddling and the reality, if my idea is no where close to reality then I would probably hate cuddling. That would mean I loved the idea of cuddling more than cuddling. One of the things about cuddling I like is its not sexual, at least how I see it. The intention behind cuddling would also be important with me. If there are any romantic or sexual intentions, I would feel uncomfortable. Also I don’t think most guy are into cuddling, at least my straight friends would not at all feel comfortable lmao.... Its a social stigma I suppose, and dudes usually like competing with video games, and the like and not being intimate like this. More dudes should cuddle in my opinion, its cool, and it’s alright. It would help the whole male problem with appearing hyper stoic, and emotionless. Feeling is seen as a weakness a lot, and I think its a sign of toxic masculinity. But if your just not comfortable with cuddling as a dude, that’s your thing, do what you wanna do right... But no need to feel awkward by wanting to cuddle with your bro because of social stigmas. Anyway, those are my thoughts how about you people.
  8. Welcome Maisap, hope you enjoy yourself here. I am also new, and I have enjoyed being here so far. There are a lot of fruitful discussions, and interesting people to get to know. Have fun!
  9. Alright, I think you made some good points Jedi. Doomer detected. Im more doomer than I realized. Lots of times fears cloud our judgements. I guess sometimes I make the mistake of fearing hope in positive changes. My fear tells me that hope can be a dangerous thing... If you have hope that something can work out, and be great, the exact opposite can happen. No one has any control over the outcomes of life. If you develop too much hope, then disappointment can hit you harder. Put if you prepare your mind for a negative outcome, then you aren’t to disappointed, since you didn’t have that much hope in the first place. I am not saying this way of thinking is good, its just how I feel sometimes. What people should do is focus on the one thing you can control, yourself, not outcomes. But here is a better alternative for people like me. Having a little bit of hope isn’t always a bad thing. Fearing disappointment, which prevents you from trying new things (like having female friends) does not lead to growth. Growth comes with risk, and potentially pain, but at least you can say you’re living. Risk assessment and so on is healthy when your not letting fear influence to much of your decisions like I am apt to do. Also for the sake of clarity. I do not think all opposite sex friendships are generalized and bound to fail. Everyone is different, which means that outcomes can vary. When I said I was generalizing people, and would rephrase what I said, I was not defending generalizing people. I should have added that I think generalizing is a mistake, and unhelpful. Instead, people are unique, and no one can shove an entire sex into one box and say All females want X. That is a mistake. Thanks for reading... And I think you are right about using the word females too much. I can see how saying the female usually wants romantic love is odd. Saying that instead of the woman makes the sentence weird. It is like a wildlife documentary, I will try to refrain from saying it like that in the future.
  10. I have never done anything sensual before because of the romantic implications, and because I don’t think my male friends would at all be comfortable with it. But how do I feel about it.... I don’t know.... The only sensual thing I would like to try is cuddling. I have never done it though. So there is the idea of cuddling, and then the reality which I don’t know yet. If the idea matches with the reality in any way then I can enjoy sensual activities. If they do not match whatsoever, then I suppose I only loved the idea of cuddling... Most guys probably don’t like cuddling with each other, especially if they are straight. I would feel uncomfortable for making them uncomfortable if the straight dude was actually open minded enough to try it. Females... amatanormativity, just want to get that out of the way. Besides that, I think more females would feel comfortable with it than males cuddling with males. Another part of sensual stuff like cuddling boils down to this. If the people I cuddle with are comfortable with it, then I am comfortable with it. If not, then it would get awkward. and If I feel awkward, then I must have loved the idea of cuddling, but not cuddling in reality. Person better not be stinky either...
  11. I have found the definitions for each word Platonic love: Absence of sex or romance, rather based on the philosophical writings of Plato. Striving towards spiritual or ideal beauty. (mostly got scientific definitions, from urban dictionary) Dating: When two people really like each other, and decide to hang out to see if they can stand being around each other. Wikipedia: A form of assessing each others abilities for a future intimate relationship. To discover if ones prospective date is romantically or sexually compatible with them. A form of courtship consisting of social activities. Combine these two definitions Platonic dating: A form of assessing each others abilities for a future intimate relationship. However instead of assessing sexual or romantic qualities, the people, daters, get to know each others platonic characteristics. Platonic characteristics simply meaning who the person is, and if they would like to develop an intimate “friendship” or “qpr" with them. (Alternative) Platonic dating carries romantic baggage with it. The definition of dating, and how it functions societally is built around two people getting to know each others romantic or sexual abilities. If you strip these away, what do you get? Well you get two people getting to know about each other. Why not call platonic dating, Platonic Acquainting? It sounds a little choppy but its the only english word I can think of which doesn’t carry romantic connotations. If you're going out with a friend, is it a date? Thats how it is for me as well... You can call it other names as well. A meet up, an outing, etc. I suppose people who do qpr wouldn’t mind the term dating. Especially those who are Quoiromantic(don’t know if they experience romantic attraction, and cannot define it or differentiate it from platonic attraction)./Quasiromantic: (There Platonic and romantic attraction blend / mix together in a non traditional way. Feel rare attractions.) I like to think of platonic dating as a term some aromantics prefer. It depends whether or not they are comfortable with its romantic implications, which I am not... The term can be simplified to getting acquainted to each other non romantically / sexually. I also think Quasiromantic and Quoiromantic, who usually engage in qprs more often will feel more comfortable using the term since they have a unique relationship to romance that most aromantics do not have.
  12. You are right Jedi, I was definitely generalizing females with the generalization brush there. Allow me to rephrase what I said above. Not all females are the way I described them above, fated to have jealous boyfriends, and not wanting friends. I am sure there are some females who would not mind having opposite sex friends. People are complicated and everyone is different, no one can generalize human behavior and put an entire sex of people into one box. Although I still think most females will probably have jealous boyfriends ect. And this is also true vise versa, jealous girlfriends, and other relationships. I might sound pessimistic hear but I really do think most people, not all, but most people generally view friendship as second rate. For example I know my friendships with my male friends are not secure/long lasting. They are in college right now, I rarely get to see them, and soon they will find girlfriends and most likely get married. After marriage its hard to see people as often, kids, and so on. You won’t get to spend nearly as much time as before they where married. Add on to that their girlfriends feelings and plans with them always will be a top priority above any plans I make with them. This is the problems I foresee with people who are the same sex as me. When I say foresee I simply mean having good foresight, risk assessment, and likely hood. I usually hope for the best but plan for the most likely scenario to happen when it comes to my friends. In other words these are obstacles I am anticipating, and don’t believe I can do much about them, since these outcomes are probably inevitable. Now turning to possibly having female friendships / opposite sex friendships. I have never had one, that is true. Although this does not mean that I can’t make some good predictions about the potential difficulty there will be in maintaining an opposite sex friendship. More likely than not I believe "most people" who are of the opposite sex who actually do form some type of friendship, will still be very complicated to maintain. Society does not encourage opposite sex friendships, do you remember the last movie where to good opposite sex friends stayed friends and didn’t “fall in love” or have sex. Actually I can’t name any media representation of people who are really good opposite sex friends of the top of my head. I think in the dating world a friend simply means a prospect, a potential romantic partner. This is important because one of the big obstacles I see is someones girlfriend/boyfriend seeing you, the aromantic, as possibly being that persons prospect. Keep in mind most people don’t even believe aromantic people exist in the first place. This drama does not exist in my same sex friendships because I know they are straight, and they're girlfriends will never be jealous of me in the same way as an opposite sex friendship. Thats just how I see it though, and I’m sure people will disagree with me. This is why I see opposite sex friendships as being complicated, and potentially difficult to maintain. Also I see myself possibly entering a lot of drama during these relationships. On the upside it is possible, however unlikely...
  13. Yo, Ive had this thought.... All my friends are dudes, so I don't have this fear that much. Im male by the way.. This problem seems most prevalent with opposite sex ppl. I really dont have any female friends, and am afraid to because they will probably mistake my intentions for being romantic/sexual. Also I dont see the point in having female friends who are not aro, heres why. Female allos either want a romantic relationship , or want friend with benefits (im ace no thanks)... Lastly their boyfriend or later on fiancée will get jealous so bye bye friendship. Ive never had female friends but this is just obstacles I forsee. This sounds pessimistic but im just thinking realistically here
  14. A Refreshing read. Her life story is a testament to show you can live a kick ass life being single. Celebrate personal milestones, true! People don't have to celebrate only romantic ambitions. Career/ business success, or friendship anniversaries. Family reunions, fandom meet ups, I could go on there is so much outside the narrow confines of romantic love! Anyway thanks for reading my mini rant i need to sleep, And thanks for sharing the article Holmbo..
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