Liz M Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I know tumblr is rampant with the "asexual and aromantic discourse" hate where people in the LGBT community drag aromantics and asexuals for being "cishet and invading the community". I've seen a lot of these and thats what a lot of the aromantic tag on tumblr is filled with. I was curious about what other people thought about this hate and if anybody had other experiences with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arocalypse Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 My thoughts: Anyone who has enough time to argue about why someone they don't know is not a [identity here] has way too much time on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I've had experiences with it online, and it really bothers me. Luckily the LGBT+ community in my off-line life isn't so divisive. All orientations and genders are welcome, as long as you respect others. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted February 17, 2017 Share Posted February 17, 2017 I have experienced this as an issue mostly restricted to tumblr, and similar spaces. It is absolutely horrific and to be honest is half the reason I found my way to Arocalypse in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zema Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 Members of a group born out of hatred because they are different, hating on a group of people because they are different. Gotta love hypocrisy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 18 hours ago, techno-trashcan said: I have experienced this as an issue mostly restricted to tumblr, and similar spaces. It is absolutely horrific and to be honest is half the reason I found my way to Arocalypse in the first place. Funny thing is that I've seen at least one person on Arocalypse doing this. But I don't think they're active here any more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 23 hours ago, Liz M said: I know tumblr is rampant with the "asexual and aromantic discourse" hate where people in the LGBT community drag aromantics and asexuals for being "cishet and invading the community". With the irony that the cishet curse word can be used by those who appear to want an LG/Gay community comprised only of cis gendered homoromantic homosexuals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted February 18, 2017 Share Posted February 18, 2017 4 hours ago, Ettina said: Funny thing is that I've seen at least one person on Arocalypse doing this. But I don't think they're active here any more. I think I know who you're talking about, and if I'm correct--they were banned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iamwilliame Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 I am confident on where I am romantically and sexually and don't go out of my way to explain it to others unless they ask. I don't feel obligated to please the LGBTQ community any more than anyone else. Toxic people can be found in all orientations. It's unfortunate that there is that mainly online segment of the population which thrives on tearing others down. I mean we all want the same thing which is to lead relatively normal lives and be respected for who we are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 22, 2017 Share Posted February 22, 2017 On 2/17/2017 at 11:23 AM, rubydelvai said: My thoughts: Anyone who has enough time to argue about why someone they don't know is not a [identity here] has way too much time on their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Confirmed Bachelor Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 What about the discourse asexuals have for aromantics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ettina Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 5 hours ago, Just like Jughead said: What about the discourse asexuals have for aromantics? Yeah, "asexuals can fall in love, like anyone else". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted February 26, 2017 Share Posted February 26, 2017 10 hours ago, Just like Jughead said: What about the discourse asexuals have for aromantics? An unfortunate reality. I was talking about this to a friend of mine a while ago, and she didn't seem to understand the situation or why I, as an aroace person, seemed to be (in her eyes at least) "choosing a side" rather than feeling caught in the middle. On a global level the predominate asexual advocacy rhetoric revolves around the idea that "asexuals can still feel love!!!!! we're normal!!!!" and as an aro person that is extremely disheartening. As much as the ace community will forever be a part of my life, I cannot help but distance myself from it if it's going to continue to erase the existence of aromantic people, ace or otherwise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sea-lemon Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 I think it's predominantly a Tumblr thing - I very rarely see anyone elsewhere online or irl giving much of a shit whether or not other people are 'cishet'. And it seems to be a bit of a recurring theme on tumblr - they were doing this to bi people and nonbinary people a couple of years ago. They'll get bored eventually and it'll all blow over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrienne Posted February 28, 2017 Share Posted February 28, 2017 36 minutes ago, sea-lemon said: And it seems to be a bit of a recurring theme on tumblr - they were doing this to bi people and nonbinary people a couple of years ago. They'll get bored eventually and it'll all blow over. They were? Nowadays, 99% of the people on Tumblr believe that there are more than two genders and is all about LGBTQ+ pride. That's surprising how much things have changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 On 2/28/2017 at 8:50 AM, CakeSpadeAroAce said: They were? Nowadays, 99% of the people on Tumblr believe that there are more than two genders and is all about LGBTQ+ pride. That's surprising how much things have changed. There was a time when Tumblr was all about "the A is for asexual [and aromantic], not for ally!" Now they say the opposite. Things change fast, I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EmFairy Posted March 14, 2017 Share Posted March 14, 2017 The hate usually comes from the fact that they have been affected by religious purity through celibacy or abstinence and do not want it forced on them, failing to realize we are here to support them and only want the same thing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
techno Posted March 21, 2017 Share Posted March 21, 2017 I feel like a lot of times people who hate on aros and aces, whether they're lgbt+ or not, honestly don't know what they're even talking about. They don't understand what being aro or ace is, let alone the nuances of being an aro or ace person and the struggles that come with it. Because we're not outwardly, explicitly discriminated against in society (because nobody knows we're even here) at least as far as they can see it (because nobody will give us a viable platform to bring our concerns to anyone's attention), they assume we have it easy. I've even had lgbt+ people try to dismiss the voices of aroace people, saying they're "straight" or "basically straight..." Someone please tell me where in "I don't experience sexual or romantic attraction to anyone" does it say "I am attracted to the 'opposite' gender" because I can't seem to find it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zema Posted March 22, 2017 Share Posted March 22, 2017 6 hours ago, techno-trashcan said: I feel like a lot of times people who hate on aros and aces, whether they're lgbt+ or not, honestly don't know what they're even talking about. They don't understand what being aro or ace is, let alone the nuances of being an aro or ace person and the struggles that come with it. Because we're not outwardly, explicitly discriminated against in society (because nobody knows we're even here) at least as far as they can see it (because nobody will give us a viable platform to bring our concerns to anyone's attention), they assume we have it easy. I've even had lgbt+ people try to dismiss the voices of aroace people, saying they're "straight" or "basically straight..." Someone please tell me where in "I don't experience sexual or romantic attraction to anyone" does it say "I am attracted to the 'opposite' gender" because I can't seem to find it! It gets me really angry when people do this sort of shit, but then go on to deny that what they're doing is discrimination towards us. There are some very notable parallels between the hate aces and aros get from the LGBT+ community and the hate that bisexuals get from the LGBT+ community. I saw one person say we can't compare the hate we get from LGBT+ community to the hate bisexuals get from the LGBT+ community, claiming that it is "offensive because bi people face discrimination from straight people" as if that is somehow relevant. This person also thought that it was offensive to use a term which was coined to describe one situation in another similar situation. Does this person not know how the English language works? It's like they want us to know that they have no clue what the fuck they're on about. These people could at least be honest with us and admit that they hate us. But of course, they think it's not possible to discriminate against us because we aren't oppressed. 10/10 logical fallacy right there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted March 23, 2017 Share Posted March 23, 2017 On 22/03/2017 at 6:02 AM, Zemaddog said: It gets me really angry when people do this sort of shit, but then go on to deny that what they're doing is discrimination towards us. There are some very notable parallels between the hate aces and aros get from the LGBT+ community and the hate that bisexuals get from the LGBT+ community. I saw one person say we can't compare the hate we get from LGBT+ community to the hate bisexuals get from the LGBT+ community, claiming that it is "offensive because bi people face discrimination from straight people" as if that is somehow relevant. This person also thought that it was offensive to use a term which was coined to describe one situation in another similar situation. Does this person not know how the English language works? It's like they want us to know that they have no clue what the fuck they're on about. These people could at least be honest with us and admit that they hate us. But of course, they think it's not possible to discriminate against us because we aren't oppressed. 10/10 logical fallacy right there. There is at least one major form of discrimination which often does affect aros. That is what has been dubbed "singlism". Most well documented in the writings of Dr Bella DePaulo. Whilst a part of this is down to legal marriage, an issue the LGBT+ community is very much aware of, a large part appears to be social in nature. As is the related issue of "couple privilege". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 On 3/23/2017 at 8:25 AM, Mark said: That is what has been dubbed "singlism". I wonder if it has become worse over time regarding certain aspects. Could there still be a James Buchanan today? I doubt it... Theoretically, I guess, most people would be ok with a never-married president, but in reality they probably couldn't stop scrutinizing: “There just has to be something seriously wrong with this guy!” On 3/22/2017 at 0:53 AM, techno-trashcan said: I've even had lgbt+ people try to dismiss the voices of aroace people, saying they're "straight" or "basically straight..." Someone please tell me where in "I don't experience sexual or romantic attraction to anyone" does it say "I am attracted to the 'opposite' gender" because I can't seem to find it! I'm really baffled how somebody can be that ignorant. As you say: just read the definitions. Also, aro-ace-ness is never “subtle” like aromanticism and asexuality alone can be under certain circumstances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Louis On Air Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 On 23/03/2017 at 7:25 AM, Mark said: That is what has been dubbed "singlism". The -ism in words is supposed to mean superiority so it would be better if it was called partnerism or couple in. Think ablism not disablism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Posted April 1, 2017 Share Posted April 1, 2017 10 hours ago, DeltaV said: Also, aro-ace-ness is never “subtle” like aromanticism and asexuality alone can be under certain circumstances. I'm finding it hard to think of a circumstance where just aromanticism can be "subtle". 2 hours ago, Louis Hypo said: The -ism in words is supposed to mean superiority so it would be better if it was called partnerism or couple in. Think ablism not disablism. I didn't coin the term... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shroomie Posted April 2, 2017 Share Posted April 2, 2017 This discussion kind of reminds me of something my friend wrote a while ago. I got their permission to post it here, if anyone wants to read it. It's not about hate from the lgbt community specifically, though. Spoiler Erasure is often viewed as passing privilege, which is harmful and oppressing to the erased. Take aromantic and asexual people, or aros and aces, for example. Aros and aces are told that they don’t exist, or that they’re really straight. That they aren’t really oppressed. That they just can’t get laid, that they just can’t get dates. They’re told they’re just ‘special snowflakes’, just cishets looking for attention. That they’re ‘basically straight’. Not only is this erasure, it’s inaccurate in almost every way. For one, aromanticism and asexuality are both valid orientations. They are individual, fully real orientations that there is nothing wrong with. They are not closeted gays, confused, late bloomers, etc, as many people say they are. Secondly, aros and aces often have other non-straight, non-aro/ace orientations. Aros can be sexually attracted to the same gender. And even if they are attracted sexually solely to the opposite gender, this does not make their aro-ness any less valid. Aces can be romantically attracted to any gender. And gray-ros and gray-aces can be romantically and sexually attracted to any gender. But even if they have hetero orientations, that does make them any less aro or ace. Denying that they really have anything to deal with just adds to the ‘‘imaginary’ oppression. On that note, aces and aros are oppressed. While they may not be as obviously affected, in the way that gay people are when they are denied jobs, housing, and service, they are affected, largely by the erasure. First of all, our society is obsessed with sex and romance. Sex and romance dominate the entertainment industry. Whether it’s casually mentioning it in passing, or basing a whole book, song, or movie on sex and/or romance, sex and romance are everywhere. Secondly, romantic relationships are generally viewed as more important than platonic ones. People who aren’t in romantic relationships are viewed as lonely failures, regardless of how lonely and successful they actually are. Asexuals and aromantics are often viewed as weird or failures, and treated like outsiders. And, there are more direct forms of abuse, such as corrective rape and harassment. The story of the lonely person who just doesn’t realize it, who has something missing from their life, who needs the right person, or the one to show them how special and important romance really is. Sound familiar? It may seem like a fun, harmless plot, but it’s really not. It’s harmful to even people who are not aro to enforce the idea that they need a romantic relationship, that they’re somehow worth less by themselves, but it’s especially harmful to aros. The person who doesn’t give up on the lonely person is glorified. This can and does lead to harassment, refusing to leave someone alone because they clearly really want romance, because everyone needs romance, right? Right? There are also violent threats made, religious biases against them, hatred for them. And I predict there will be more once it’s more known about. Asexuals and aromantics are seen as unnatural, emotionless robots by some people. The challenges they face are just kept hidden because aros and aces remain erased. Even the way that other minorities promote themselves can dehumanize aros. “I can accept gay people because at least they can still (romantically) love.” Even the majority of asexual awareness is based around the fact that they can still be in romantic relationships. Yes, it’s information that should be known, but it shouldn’t be the main point of asexual awareness, as if sure, they don’t like sex, but they still have the redeeming quality of liking romance. Because without that, they’d be completely worthless and inhuman, right? I mean, romance is what makes us human. Right? We also enforce the idea that everyone needs and wants sex. In some cases, aces can be raped to show that clearly they like sex, that clearly sex is great. Because I mean, as humans, we’re required to have sex, right? We must like it, right? Third of all, while it is not necessarily true, most aros and aces can get dates/get laid. They aren’t making up their orientation as an excuse for their ugliness. Also, most of the time, you’re either too ugly and making up excuses, or too pretty to be aro/ace. It’s a lose-lose situation. And, ironically enough, a lot of the time the people who are claiming they ‘just can’t get laid’ or ‘just can’t get a date’ have just been rejected by them. Fourthly, aros and aces are often not cis. Sexual and romantic orientation do not determine gender, or vice versa. Aros and aces can be cis, non-binary, binary trans, etc. Their gender has nothing to do with who they are and aren’t attracted to. And even if they are cis, so what? How does being cis in any way make their sexual or romantic orientation any less valid? Fifth of all, as for ‘looking for attention’, most aros and aces don’t spend much time calling attention to their orientations. Most aros and aces aren’t out on street corners screaming “Look at me I’m so oppressed give me attention”. They just live their lives, and mostly don’t tell anyone who doesn’t need to know, whether it be a close friend, a family member, or someone making romantic or sexual advances, or other aros and aces. In addition, this seems awfully hypocritical, considering alloromantics spend a lot of time calling attention to their relationships. They often spend excessive time talking or posting about their significant others. Not all allos do this, but a fair bit of them do. In general, I would say that aros call less attention to their orientation than allos, but it is taken more offensively because the majority cannot relate to it as much, and is seen as less ‘normal’. And, finally, they are not ‘basically straight’. If an an asexual man says, “I’m not attracted to woman,” you’re not going to say he’s ‘basically straight’. Why does adding “or men or non-binary people” make him ‘basically straight’? He’s still not attracted to the opposite sex, so he’s not heterosexual. He’s also not homosexual, or pansexual, or any other sexuality other than asexual. All this erasure, them being seen as basically straight, is often then seen as passing privilege, rather than the erasure and oppression it really is. They’re not in a gay relationships, so clearly they don’t face any oppression at all! They’re so lucky! Right?! Yeah, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeltaAro Posted April 3, 2017 Share Posted April 3, 2017 On 4/1/2017 at 7:29 PM, Mark said: I'm finding it hard to think of a circumstance where just aromanticism can be "subtle". Well, scare-quotes were intended. Aromanticism is as “subtle” as a sledgehammer. But the wall of the typical mind fallacy is very massive, too, and a sledgehammer may not suffice to break through. I think you know the circumstances I'm talking about: aromanticism is “subtle” if it comes with being heterosexual + not romance-repulsed. In this case aros might just think of themselves as normal straight people. Compared to that being homoromantic-homosexual is pretty much like a jackhammer. It's extremely difficult to deny, though in the past some managed that too! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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