TIKTOK IS BANNED IN MONTANA WOOOOOO?

[SwiftySpeedy]

I've been dying for a ban to finally start happening in the U.S.A. And its finally started.

https://mashable.com/article/montana-tiktok-ban?utm_medium=browser_notifications&utm_source=pushly&utm_campaign=3021495

 

[illumi]

never knew ppl were so hyped up abt dickcock getting banned since its already banned in my region 

[SkyTuneRein]

I hope to see less TikTok-esque junk on YouTube. It's getting nigh-impossible to find appropriate stooff with some searches. YT should either stick to what they were for in the first place, or create a separate TT portion.

On second thought, it may get worse, as TikTok users may flock to YT with their shorts, dancing in their shorts.

Edited May 18, 2023 by SkyTuneRein

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

Huh? Why? I mean I get that Tiktok is a cesspit, but it feels kind of sketchy to outright ban it. When are they going to ban, say, 4chan, or does that not matter to them? What is their reasoning for banning Tiktok?

[SwiftySpeedy]

Probably the data collection.

1 minute ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Huh? Why? I mean I get that Tiktok is a cesspit, but it feels kind of sketchy to outright ban it. When are they going to ban, say, 4chan, or does that not matter to them? What is their reasoning for banning Tiktok?

 

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

5 minutes ago, SwiftySpeedy said:

Probably the data collection.

 

You mean that thing pretty much every app and online service does? If they’re concerned about data collection, they should write legislation pertaining to data collection, not ban one random app while letting others off the hook. I mean, just look at the scandals Facebook has bad selling people’s private info. 

[SwiftySpeedy]

The United States fears its American citizen's data being collected and sent to China—thats what.

6 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

You mean that thing pretty much every app and online service does? If they’re concerned about data collection, they should write legislation pertaining to data collection, not ban one random app while letting others off the hook. I mean, just look at the scandals Facebook has bad selling people’s private info. 

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

Just now, SwiftySpeedy said:

The United States fears its American citizen's data being collected and sent to China—thats what.

Right. So it’s ok for American citizen’s data to be collected and sold by American companies, but we can’t have it go to China, because then people who aren’t white- I mean, our political enemies might see it! Nevermind all the underpaid tech workers in Asia, Africa, and South America who do moderation for American social media, we’re just going to pretend they don’t exist. All our good American data is totally bought and sold behind your back exclusively in America. Can’t have any of them chai-knees looking at our good American data! We only allow AMERICAN panopticons!

God I hate this country. 

[SwiftySpeedy]

I'm glad for the ban as it got rid of a giant cesspit of junk. Not necessarily China no longer handles our data part.

[TrueEvergreen]

36 minutes ago, SwiftySpeedy said:

I'm glad for the ban as it got rid of a giant cesspit of junk. Not necessarily China no longer handles our data part.

I mean while there are some bad things on tiktok, it isn't entirely bad, and it can be a good place for spreading opinions and ideas. I'm not saying that everything is good on the app, but there will always be bad things on the internet, and tiktok isn't exactly the worst when it comes to it.

[SwiftySpeedy]

Just now, Anaim said:

I mean while there are some bad things on tiktok, it isn't entirely bad, and it can be a good place for spreading opinions and ideas.

tWiTeR

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

Here’s the thing: Whether you like Tiktok or not, if they’re genuinely banning it because of association with China, that sets an extremely dangerous precedent. Because now it’s seen as ok to ban apps/media platforms based on association with whatever foreign countries get deemed our political enemies. 
Sure, maybe for now that means banning Tiktok. But what could it become? Maybe banning harmless games because they happen to be made by innocent game developers in China. Maybe it could mean preventing Americans from chatting with their foreign exchange student friend from China. Maybe it could mean banning media in Spanish because something something evil Mexicans stealing our jobs. Maybe it could mean keeping Middle Eastern refugees from communicating with their family back home who are relying on their help to escape a war zone. Maybe it could mean banning any media that tries to educate people on anything other than The Great American Way of Life. You see what I mean?

I don’t like Tiktok. I don’t use Tiktok, and I’ve seen the harm that it can do. But I can’t, especially as a Hispanic American, feel good about it getting banned when I know that its ban has nothing to do with its actual content, and everything to do with xenophobia and the prevention of global information exchange.

[HelloThere]

29 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Here’s the thing: Whether you like Tiktok or not, if they’re genuinely banning it because of association with China, that sets an extremely dangerous precedent. Because now it’s seen as ok to ban apps/media platforms based on association with whatever foreign countries get deemed our political enemies. 
Sure, maybe for now that means banning Tiktok. But what could it become? Maybe banning harmless games because they happen to be made by innocent game developers in China. Maybe it could mean preventing Americans from chatting with their foreign exchange student friend from China. Maybe it could mean banning media in Spanish because something something evil Mexicans stealing our jobs. Maybe it could mean keeping Middle Eastern refugees from communicating with their family back home who are relying on their help to escape a war zone. Maybe it could mean banning any media that tries to educate people on anything other than The Great American Way of Life. You see what I mean?

I don’t like Tiktok. I don’t use Tiktok, and I’ve seen the harm that it can do. But I can’t, especially as a Hispanic American, feel good about it getting banned when I know that its ban has nothing to do with its actual content, and everything to do with xenophobia and the prevention of global information exchange.

Exactly! I mean yes, there are security concerns but who’s even surprised that nations spy on each other? We’ve already sold most of not all of our info to companies already so it’s not that much of a threat. Just in general, yes tik tok has issues but banning it could mean they could ban ANYTHING they want. 

1 hour ago, SwiftySpeedy said:

I'm glad for the ban as it got rid of a giant cesspit of junk. Not necessarily China no longer handles our data part.

They still easily have access to your information, you know that right? Somewhere along the line you sold all of your information to every company out there.

[SwiftySpeedy]

I was talking about how terrible Tik-Tok is. Not the safety of my data.

12 minutes ago, HelloThere said:

They still easily have access to your information, you know that right? Somewhere along the line you sold all of your information to every company out there.

 

[Holmbo]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:34 PM, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

 

I don’t like Tiktok. I don’t use Tiktok, and I’ve seen the harm that it can do. But I can’t, especially as a Hispanic American, feel good about it getting banned when I know that its ban has nothing to do with its actual content, and everything to do with xenophobia and the prevention of global information exchange.

Similar discussions going on in my country and it's not about china being non white, it's about TikTok being owned by the Chinese state which is a dictatorship that ignores human rights and are commiting genocide to Uyghur (by forced sterilization and children separated from their culture). The state already has a lot of power in other countries too due to its economic investments and they use it to further their interests. To forbid social media controlled by the Chinese state is not unreasonable. I agree that private companies also needs more regulation, this decision could be a start for that.

[Apex]

I don't like tiktok, I think it has a lot of issues, but I think the bigger issue is how the government (state or federal) can just decide what apps to ban. Right now it's because of data security, but what about in the future? Plus credit card companies are already getting to decide what content is and isn't allowed on different platforms- these two things put together don't paint a very good picture.

[HelloThere]

28 minutes ago, Apex said:

I don't like tiktok, I think it has a lot of issues, but I think the bigger issue is how the government (state or federal) can just decide what apps to ban. Right now it's because of data security, but what about in the future? Plus credit card companies are already getting to decide what content is and isn't allowed on different platforms- these two things put together don't paint a very good picture.

Yeah, in general it always seems to be a choice between government intervention or corporation intervention. Why can’t it just be neither and they’d focus on not stealing information?!

[DeltaAro]

On 5/18/2023 at 7:34 PM, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Here’s the thing: Whether you like Tiktok or not, if they’re genuinely banning it because of association with China, that sets an extremely dangerous precedent. Because now it’s seen as ok to ban apps/media platforms based on association with whatever foreign countries get deemed our political enemies. 

We have justified suspicions that TikTok is spying, though. ByteDance even admitted later spying on those very journalists who published leaked information about their spying. With ridiculous denials later. Their credibility is literally zero.

So I don't think the slippery slope argument really works here.

On 5/18/2023 at 7:34 PM, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

I don’t like Tiktok. I don’t use Tiktok, and I’ve seen the harm that it can do. But I can’t, especially as a Hispanic American, feel good about it getting banned when I know that its ban has nothing to do with its actual content, and everything to do with xenophobia and the prevention of global information exchange.

It's not xenophobia in the sense that it's about ethnicity. E.g. it would be a non-issue if TikTok came from Taiwan.

But it comes from China, which is a major hostile... ok, let's say, rival power to the US, that's all.

On 5/18/2023 at 8:07 PM, HelloThere said:

Exactly! I mean yes, there are security concerns but who’s even surprised that nations spy on each other? We’ve already sold most of not all of our info to companies already so it’s not that much of a threat. Just in general, yes tik tok has issues but banning it could mean they could ban ANYTHING they want. 

The difference is that TikTok comes from China.

But yeah... since the whole data industry is unregulated and Western governments like to "shop" there, even that doesn't really matter in the end.

It's just easier and cheaper for Chinese intelligence to use TikTok, but they can still get what they want by buying via middlemen from data brokers.

13 hours ago, Holmbo said:

Similar discussions going on in my country and it's not about china being non white, it's about TikTok being owned by the Chinese state which is a dictatorship that ignores human rights and are commiting genocide to Uyghur (by forced sterilization and children separated from their culture). The state already has a lot of power in other countries too due to its economic investments and they use it to further their interests. To forbid social media controlled by the Chinese state is not unreasonable. I agree that private companies also needs more regulation, this decision could be a start for that.

So, first, domestic intelligence needs more "regulation". It's not going to happen, but we can still wish for it.

As long as we don't get that fixed, there will be no real regulation of private companies.

And trying to protect your citizens from foreign intelligence while also massively spying on them at the same time does not work. These are two strictly incompatible objectives.

Also, I reject "it's ok when we do it" out of principle. And no Uyghur will be better off if TikTok is banned. The whole thing is for geopolitical reasons.

The US should maybe try to care about their own human rights abuses first, instead of sentencing whistleblowers who revealed those human rights abuses to decades in prison. Then I would perhaps believe their propaganda.

1 hour ago, Apex said:

I don't like tiktok, I think it has a lot of issues, but I think the bigger issue is how the government (state or federal) can just decide what apps to ban. Right now it's because of data security, but what about in the future? Plus credit card companies are already getting to decide what content is and isn't allowed on different platforms- these two things put together don't paint a very good picture.

Google and Apple can just decide what apps you can run, too.

Edited May 21, 2023 by DeltaAro

[HelloThere]

2 minutes ago, DeltaAro said:

We have justified suspicions that TikTok is spying, though. Bytedance even admitted later spying on those very journalists who published leaked information about their spying. With ridiculous denials later. Their credibility is literally zero.

So I don't think the slippery slope argument really works here.

It's not xenophobia in the sense that it's about ethnicity. E.g. it would be a non-issue if TikTok came from Taiwan.

But it comes from China, which is a major hostile.... let's say rival power to the US, that's all.

The major difference is that TikTok comes from China.

But yeah... since the whole data industry is unregulated and Western government really like to "shop" there, even that doesn't really matter in the end.

It's just easier and cheaper for Chinese intelligence to use TikTok, but they can still get what they want by buying via middlemen from data brokers.

So, first, domestic intelligence needs more "regulation". It's not going to happen, but we can still wish for it.

As long as we don't get that fixed, there will be no real regulation of private companies. Since trying to protect your citizens from foreign intelligence while also massively spying on them at the same time does not work. These are two strictly incompatible objectives.

Also, I reject "it's ok when we do it" out of principle, even if the US government. And no Uyghur will be better off if TikTok is banned. The whole thing is for geopolitical reasons, like Chinese industrial espionage.

The US should maybe try to care about their own human rights abuses first, instead of sentencing whistleblowers who revealed those human rights abuses to decades in prison. Then I would perhaps believe their propaganda.

Google and Apple can just decide what apps you can run, too.

Yeah, there’s little to no credibility between China or the us. I mean I can see how we’re rivals, after all China is a government that runs corporations and uses them as spies. America is a government run by corporations that spy by being the devil in the details. Overall both kinda suck but if I had to choose I’d take the corporations because they at least have to do the bare MINIMUM to not get their doors run down by protestors. Holy crap, what have we come to? We have to decide between corporate surveillance or government surveillance! Why is this even happening at all?!

[SkyTuneRein]

"Pick your poison" has never before, in my life, been so appropriate to cite in a forum discussion. Sometimes one has to make a choice, to pick the frying pan or the fire, but fortunately in this case I don't have to choose TikTok as it, or anything like it, is not a necessity. Unfortunately, we don't have much of a choice in terms of governance, but we do have more of a choice than those in China does.

Edited May 22, 2023 by SkyTuneRein

[DeltaAro]

15 hours ago, SkyTuneRein said:

Sometimes one has to make a choice, to pick the frying pan or the fire, but fortunately in this case I don't have to choose TikTok as it, or anything like it, is not a necessity.

When it comes to data security, you may do everything right, but in the end you're still the victim. Let's say your psychotherapist likes TikTok and the Chinese government is very interested in you. Yes, a bit far-fetched, but you get the idea.

Overall, the concerns are real, and ByteDance reputation is nearly beyond repair.

But China has a million other options to spy on citizens of Western countries. Either they just buy the data via middlemen on the virtually unregulated data brokerage market, or ... hack themselves in. The wave of cybercrime cases this year has shown the extreme vulnerability and incompetence of many companies that handle highly sensitive data.

Quote

Two initial tranches were posted on Wednesday to a dark web blog linked to the REvil Russian ransomware group: a so-called “naughty list” that detailed people’s treatment for drug addictions or mental health issues, and a “good list” that contained more generic hospital procedure claims. Each list contained data from about 100 Medibank customers.

On Thursday, the hackers posted another file labelled “abortions.csv” containing more than 300 claims made by policyholders in relation to the termination of pregnancies, including non-viable pregnancy, ectopic pregnancy and miscarriages.

On Friday, a further list was posted on the dark web – “boozy.csv” – containing files associated with 240 customers related to alcoholism-related treatment.

The Guardian: Medical data hacked from 10m Australians begins to appear on dark web

So banning TikTok would be a drop in the bucket.

I feel this is all going to continue until people learn it the hard way. Most data should never be collected in the first place, and if it has to be, it shouldn't be centrally gathered and should be timely deleted.

[The Aro Mando Echo]

On a generally less political note.. I'm surprised Montana was the first state to ban it. Do you guys think other states will follow?

[HelloThere]

48 minutes ago, The Aro Mando Echo said:

On a generally less political note.. I'm surprised Montana was the first state to ban it. Do you guys think other states will follow?

Maybe, though Florida or Texas sound like the next ones on the list.

[TrueEvergreen]

50 minutes ago, The Aro Mando Echo said:

On a generally less political note.. I'm surprised Montana was the first state to ban it. Do you guys think other states will follow?

I think probably some but not all, as it is a pretty polarizing topic

[Guest]

On 5/23/2023 at 11:54 AM, The Aro Mando Echo said:

On a generally less political note.. I'm surprised Montana was the first state to ban it. Do you guys think other states will follow?

As a Montanan, I‘m not surprised at all. So many people here freaked out about the balloon, and because of the perceived connection between the balloon and TikTok, it kind of makes sense that Montana acted so quickly. 
The most suprinsing thing to me is that Governor Gianforte signed it. He used to work on the tech industry. 
 

I wouldn’t be surprised if other states follow.