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Becoming an adult as an aro ace


Holmbo

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Something I thought about just now is the connection society put on romance and sex as signs of adulthood and how that can affect teen aro aces. I definitely felt this problem as a teen. I felt pressure internally and externally to have a boyfriend and have sex before a certain age because if I didn't it would mean I had failed somehow. I suppose lack of visibility for aro and ace is one of the reasons but I also think every teenager feels an inherent drive to grow up and is looking for everything they feel will accomplish that. So maybe it's hard to totally remove the sense of pressure. What are your thoughts and experiences about this?

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I remember that I decided "no romance before 16", because I percieved 16 as an age when we are mature enough lol. I also thought that I will marry eventually when I'll grow up : that is expecting of you.

When I was a teen and then a young adult, before I knew I was aro and ace, I was worried that if I haven't have sex before a certain age, my future partner will find it weird. I didn't have as much sense about romance but that maybe because I didn't feel like I have to tell them this (though now I realize my partner would have asked), but that being a virgin was something I would have brought up before having sex for the first time (and if I don't it would have been noticable).

Now that I know myself, this fear disappear.

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I also remember feeling this pressure, and thinking I was somehow doing something wrong?

But I remember feeling relieved when I was watching an episode of a Dutch comedy show (I think I was 16?) were one of the characters was a 20-something who also never had a boyfriend/sex and in one episode had convinced herself that she needed to ‘fix’ that so she asked the neighbour (who had a crush on her) if he could help with that. The ‘joke’ came when she talked to her mother who said ‘Oh honey, I was 27 when I first had sex. No need to rush it if you don’t feel ready.’ So then she, overjoyed, threw her neighbour out of her room. Even though he had already taken his clothes of. 

Yeah Dutch humor is pretty crass.

But to me this ‘joke’ was everything, because I now learned I didn’t need to rush it! When I grew older and realised I was ace and then that I was aro, I was even more grateful that I hadn’t rushed anything. 

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@Nixthat sounds like a great joke!


I think in general it would be good with more reassurance that there is no rush. In Sweden I think there is a bit of a weird thing with our culture being very influenced by American media which always shows sex as this amazing thing incomparable to any other kind of experience. I think in the US this is done to compensate and escape from sex shaming but Sweden doesn't have that as much so it becomes weird when it's put on such a pedistal rather than being discussed as just a part of life. 

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10 hours ago, Holmbo said:

@Nixthat sounds like a great joke!


I think in general it would be good with more reassurance that there is no rush. In Sweden I think there is a bit of a weird thing with our culture being very influenced by American media which always shows sex as this amazing thing incomparable to any other kind of experience. I think in the US this is done to compensate and escape from sex shaming but Sweden doesn't have that as much so it becomes weird when it's put on such a pedistal rather than being discussed as just a part of life. 

Yeah, idk why Sweden is so influenced by USA media lol. From what I've seen in the USA, and as a general  (but not absolute) rule in the USA the red states have much less sex-education so people get really influenced by what they see in the media regarding sex and think it's just like what they see in the media which promotes all sorts of unhealthy attitudes regarding sex. 

Sex is put on a pedestal in the USA, especially by cis men because it's seen as something you obtain and seen as a man's worth, while cis women are shamed for being a virgin and slut shamed simulteneously though to some extent cis women do also think that sexual experiences are important despite the contradictory views that cis men have. Some of this mentality has sadly shifted into the LGBTQ community where gay, trans, and other peope with various identities in the LGBTQ+ measure their worthiness and social acceptance by how much casual sex they can have. I don't think casual sex in itself is bad, but the general idea about coercion and lack of consent seems to have carried from the cis het population for some weird reason.

This next statement is certainly a touchy topic and needs to be discussed in a nuanced way for sure. I do think that having sex just for the sake of that can lead to people making some unsafe and potentially unsafe choices for sure, however, I think that victim blaming people isn't right either, as people make varieties of irrational choices due to lack of knowledge, peer pressure, and ignorance, amongst other things.  Definitely waiting for when someone is comfortable with another person such that they have discussed openly about their sexual health. boundaries, and consent and that is a thing that should never be rushed, or in the case of ace people never having sex shouldn't be seen as weird. Ah, good old public health training for sure :) 

 

Edited by MulticulturalFarmer
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@MulticulturalFarmer

I agree with those observations about American culture. But I think for Americans the image of sex in media is somewhat a reaction about sex shaming in real life. That's less in Scandinavian countries and so there's not really a counter balance to the sex worship.

I'm not sure why Scandinavians like American culture so much. Maybe it's because historically it was a contrast to the ideologies promoted by the state so it became a little bit rebellious. Or it's because Scandinavian cultures are very individualistic so it appeals to us.

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10 hours ago, Holmbo said:

@MulticulturalFarmer

I agree with those observations about American culture. But I think for Americans the image of sex in media is somewhat a reaction about sex shaming in real life. That's less in Scandinavian countries and so there's not really a counter balance to the sex worship.

I'm not sure why Scandinavians like American culture so much. Maybe it's because historically it was a contrast to the ideologies promoted by the state so it became a little bit rebellious. Or it's because Scandinavian cultures are very individualistic so it appeals to us.

I'm a bit confused by what you said, in the first sentence, and it seems a bit contradictory. Sure, there's some of that (sex shaming) in hollywood, but I think that hollywood is a representation of corporate interests and not necessarily what the average American thinks or feels, not to mention they don't particularly care about health or wellbeing of people, as long as there's a market for sex shaming scenes corporate film industries will continue to make those films. There is some of the sex shaming in the general population for sure, but such attitudes on the topic probably vary widely on who you're talking to, and tend to come from religious influences from older generations. I also think some of the sex shaming comes from like I said earlier, the poor state of sex education and lack of reproductive access in many areas, so the idea is that if a woman has sex they could get pregnant the whole life can get derailed and of course it's the woman's fault for putting herself in that situation, as opposed to misogynistic ideas from men playing a big role.

Not to mention there are loads of "niche films", and young generations especially in the queer community in the USA have their own film industry to get influence from and thanks to the Internet one doesn't have to rely on mainstream films and TV for representation.

American culture is certainly individualistic, maybe a little less than Sweden perhaps. But it's especially individualistic in the areas where it's pretty inconvenient like healthcare and education. But also in general too. I think that just because people tend to talk a lot to strangers doesn't mean they are necessarily community oriented. 

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I've struggled with this of adulthood and what it means to be an adult, particularly being someone with no desired "adult milestones". I'm non-partnering, and I don't want kids. And in addition, I haven't managed to build a career. I also don't have any credit whatsoever, so I can't even work towards meeting a milestone like buying a house. I feel very stuck and immature because I'm not doing any of the things typically expected of me, and I don't particularly want many of them either. So where does it leave me? I don't know. I guess I'm just trying to take things day by day and see what happens.

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6 minutes ago, Decaying Vegetables said:

Also, if anything, I felt scared or really uncomfortable at the thought of growing up. I wanted to stay young forever.

Oh hey, me too! I think my case was probably more impacted by being trans than anything, but I never wanted to grow up like my peers or sister did (particularly my disinterest in going through any bit of puberty). I always wanted to be a kid and just be free and have fun. Being an adult never sounded like that much fun. Too much responsibility and duties!

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i definitely subconsciously felt pressure to date in high school.  much less to have sex, though, probably since it wasn't something many of my friends/peers were doing--and after high school i didn't care what others were doing.  people are weird about it though, virginity past a certain age.  my parents and i don't talk about it at all, like i haven't acknowledged to them that i've ever had sex, but the only thing my mom ever said about it, when i was younger, was not to feel pressured to do it because other people were.  if only i'd heard the same advice about dating.  i feel that there's a lot more pressure regarding that.  like, people are more likely to understand that you're not comfortable with sex, compared to with romance--they're more likely to see the latter as a problem.  i'd be interested to hear an aro ace perspective.  anyway, i don't totally feel like an adult but that's not because of my aromanticism.  navigating adult life outside of the framework of a romantic partnership (or the pursuit of one) may be a strange concept to allos, but to me, of course, it's natural. 

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On 2/23/2023 at 8:50 PM, MulticulturalFarmer said:

American culture is certainly individualistic, maybe a little less than Sweden perhaps. But it's especially individualistic in the areas where it's pretty inconvenient like healthcare and education. But also in general too. I think that just because people tend to talk a lot to strangers doesn't mean they are necessarily community oriented. 

"Individualistic" is multifaceted. Most societies are individualistic regarding certain aspects and collectivist in other aspects.

Sweden is very individualistic on a personal level (the lonely cottage at a remote fjord or lake). But when it comes to the state, it's consensus driven. Even for very important decisions like the Swedish COVID strategy or joining NATO the lack of debate is... surprising.

And the trust in institutions, oh dear... state surveillance in Sweden is unprecedented for a democracy. In 2020 a law was passed without opposition that allows law enforcement to hack into electronic devices to turn on cameras or microphones, on a mere suspicion and without a warrant.

To the US left it's a kind of a paradise. To be fair, Sweden has health insurance, welfare, consumer-friendly laws, etc.

Given the over-shelteredness (one word: Systembolaget) of the population and naive trust in institutions, it makes me wonder how stable the whole thing really is. There are certainly cracks showing in Swedish society (like the success of the Sweden Democrats).

Sorry, this devolved into a rant about Sweden. Normally, I wouldn't criticize foreign countries. I just don't like their 🇸🇪 "Moral Superpower" narrative. Just as I don't like US exceptionalism. If you claim to be better or more enlightened than everyone else, then please live up to it!

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1 hour ago, DeltaAro said:

"Individualistic" is multifaceted. Most societies are individualistic regarding certain aspects and collectivist in other aspects.

Sweden is very individualistic on a personal level (the lonely cottage at a remote fjord or lake). But when it comes to the state, it's consensus driven. Even for very important decisions like the Swedish COVID strategy or joining NATO the lack of debate is... surprising.

And the trust in institutions, oh dear... state surveillance in Sweden is unprecedented for a democracy. In 2020 a law was passed without opposition that allows law enforcement to hack into electronic devices to turn on cameras or microphones, on a mere suspicion and without a warrant.

To the US left it's a kind of a paradise. To be fair, Sweden has health insurance, welfare, consumer-friendly laws, etc.

Given the over-shelteredness (one word: Systembolaget) of the population and naive trust in institutions, it makes me wonder how stable the whole thing really is. There are certainly cracks showing in Swedish society (like the success of the Sweden Democrats).

Sorry, this devolved into a rant about Sweden. Normally, I wouldn't criticize foreign countries. I just don't like their 🇸🇪 "Moral Superpower" narrative. Just as I don't like US exceptionalism. If you claim to be better or more enlightened than everyone else, then please live up to it!

Oh lordy another can of worms lol. Well, first of all, I'm guessing you're American? Well I'm not Swedish at all (and I"m referring to this in terms of nationality, not heritage or something like that ) I might add. I'm just moderately familiar with the language and the history. 

Yeah every country has its flaws for sure, I wasn't trying to imply that Sweden is perfect by any stretch of the imagination just because I critcized the United States, not to mention that the USA has a moral superiority complex too as well as naive trust in politicians (not so much institutions, but that's hardly better), rise of the far right, lack of privacy laws, and many western countries have that same issues too. Despite these issues, the laws and society don't make it that easy to get an AR-15 military style rifle and shoot a whole bunch of people you don't like that easily.

Despite all those cons I'm sure many Americans if they had the chance would give living in Sweden a try due to the generous social benefits network, though that's not possible for the average US citizen due to immigration fees and the need for a college education which costs a ridiculous amount of money. A ton of US citizens living in the USA are currently living paycheck to paycheck. 

I don't believe in any type of nationalism or exceptionalism myself, but I do believe in people learning from other countries that have implemented systems and perhaps laws that are better than the country they currently live in, wherever in the world that may be.

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1 hour ago, MulticulturalFarmer said:

Well, first of all, I'm guessing you're American?

No, I'm not.

I also would rather live in Sweden than in the USA. Though that's not a good argument. A country can be a bad place to live in because of uncontrollable, external factors (wars, disasters, colonial exploitation, ..).

1 hour ago, MulticulturalFarmer said:

Yeah every country has its flaws for sure, I wasn't trying to imply that Sweden is perfect by any stretch of the imagination just because I critcized the United States, not to mention that the USA has a moral superiority complex too as well as naive trust in politicians (not so much institutions, but that's hardly better), rise of the far right, lack of privacy laws, and many western countries have that same issues too. Despite these issues, the laws and society don't make it that easy to get an AR-15 military style rifle and shoot a whole bunch of people you don't like that easily.

The Swedish "moral superpower" narrative also doesn't say that Sweden is perfect. But that Sweden as a state is more enlightened than other nations and obliged to "spread the message" to better humankind.

It's important to remind ourselves that all the supposedly enlightened Swedish positions (like the Covid strategy) weren't hotly debated domestically or are the ones that withstood all public scrutiny and criticism.

There is no such thing in this country. It's just what the technocrats and experts there decide (and admittedly they had a good track record as being relatively competent and integrous - until they weren't) and the population goes with it.

To get back to the topic... if we think of Swedes as individualistic, we make a big mistake.

So yeah, the US is positively insane in many ways, like the 2nd amendment. But if a policy in the US is universally agreed on nationally, I'd trust it way more than a Swedish policy.

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Not an aro ace, but as I've gotten older, some friends have faded into oblivion after they had gotten into relationships, while some faded due to work or other life changes. Some had faded because they had more than enough of me, but never mind, their loss more than mine. 😼 As anyone who'd like a relationship or to live with somebody 'til the end, it's a pretty bleak outlook by a particular age range, like 30 or so. In the end, they may have to look hard and unexclusively for partners who don't want marriage or kids, to spend a lot of time with. Unfortunately for them, finding new friends and aro partners gets scarce too, because being aro/ace doesn't mean friendless either.

I have yet to experience real pressure in partnering though.

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  • 1 month later...
On 2/22/2023 at 1:29 AM, Holmbo said:

Something I thought about just now is the connection society put on romance and sex as signs of adulthood and how that can affect teen aro aces. I definitely felt this problem as a teen. I felt pressure internally and externally to have a boyfriend and have sex before a certain age because if I didn't it would mean I had failed somehow. I suppose lack of visibility for aro and ace is one of the reasons but I also think every teenager feels an inherent drive to grow up and is looking for everything they feel will accomplish that. So maybe it's hard to totally remove the sense of pressure. What are your thoughts and experiences about this?

 

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  • 1 month later...

I never felt any pressure, at least internally, to get into romantic and sexual relationships. In fact, well into high school, I thought I was doing everything right and others were rushing it or "kidding". Then I came to realize that they were indeed being serious and that both their experiences and mine were valid. Now, as an adult, I continue to feel no pressure to be involved with such stuff. I have a friend who, just like me, isn't interested in romantic or sexual relationships. I suspect he could also be aroace. I have another friend who, even when he had a girlfriend, always made room to spend time with the two of us.

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