Take my survey on aromanticism and asexuality

[Coyote]

 

@Blue Phoenix Ace You've probably seen it written as terf or twerf instead, perhaps?  Acronym for trans (woman) exclusionary/exterminationist (radical) feminist.  Basically she doesn't believe in trans people.  May seem like a non sequitur/ad hominem, I guess, but I feel like that's kinda relevant to what someone says about queerness.

 

Anyway... I think "the LGBT community" is a way more amorphous, abstract concept than these discussions generally make it out to be, and I can't answer the question of "do aros belong in it" without first interrogating what we mean by it in the first place.

 

 

[Vega]

@Coyote I was just gonna ask that as well.

Also, ugh. That sounds awful. how do you not believe in trans people? 

[Jade]

On 5/3/2016 at 5:53 AM, Vega said:

Also, ugh. That sounds awful. how do you not believe in trans people? 

The Thinking Aro actually used to identify as trans herself--then decided to stop identifying as non-binary, claim that being trans is just a result of internalized misogyny and gender roles, and that everyone is Actually Just Whatever Their Biology Is.

 

Yeah. It's gross. twefs/twerfs/terfs are gross.

 

I used to love her posts, too, when I was just a small aromantic trying to figure myself out.

 

Survey has been taken, by the way! I'm going to post a more in-depth reply later, in the other thread that started based on this.

[Cassiopeia]

@Jade Really? Can you link source?

[Blue Phoenix Ace]

This post is where she declared herself no longer non-binary.

 

https://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/2016/01/19/personal-announcement/

 

Not sure about the whole terf thingy.

 

 

[Blue Phoenix Ace]

Quote

Just to be clear, I am not a radical feminist, and I do disagree with the problematic behavior and beliefs of some radfems, particularly transmisogyny. But I do think that it’s possible for a woman to be a voluntary lesbian or a political lesbian outside of radical feminism, and I want to talk about voluntary/political lesbianism as an aromantic asexual outside of the radical feminist framework but within the broader context of feminism and female empowerment.

https://thethinkingasexual.wordpress.com/2014/12/03/political-lesbianism-from-an-aromantic-asexual-perspective/

 

This would seem to indicate that she is the very opposite of a twef (twerf, terf?). Granted, that post is about a year and a half old. It's possible she did a complete 180 in that time.

[Lynx]

I might sound idealistic and naive in this, but why shouldn't we band together and support each other? I know aro (and ace) issues are different, but surely every letter in the acronym goes through a slightly different set within themselves? I'm not dead set on this, and admittedly part of me just doesn't really want to get kicked out of the club if I figure out that I'm not attracted to girls in the slightest, but I'm not seeing much more logic than "you're different to us" or "you're not oppressed enough for our support". We're all a bit different and appreciate some solidarity. Idgi.

[Confirmed Bachelor]

I guess I just never realized how little I really care about this topic. It has been discussed so much. I guess my question is why would anyone want to belong to a special club that doesn't want them there? Honestly, I have very little in common with both the LGBT and aro/ace "communities."  I'm older and that automatically tosses me out of either. Also, while I have feelings and ideas that associate me with aro people, I don't think I would ever actually officially start calling myself that. I have been "out" as single forever. Everyone knows I'm not interested in anyone and am perfectly happy being single. But I really have nothing in common with queerplatonic relationships or using flag symbols. I'm just about being single and hanging with my friends. Like I said, I relate to a lot of aro things but I guess the only label I'll ever really use publicly is bachelor. 

[PerformativeSurprise]

On 5/7/2016 at 6:14 PM, Nope said:

I guess I just never realized how little I really care about this topic. It has been discussed so much. I guess my question is why would anyone want to belong to a special club that doesn't want them there? Honestly, I have very little in common with both the LGBT and aro/ace "communities."  

 

Although I do feel more of an affinity for the aro and ace communities, I completely agree about the LGBT+ community.  I don't have much of an opinion on this topic because I just don't feel strongly either way.  As an aro ace, I have little to nothing in common with those in the LGBT+ community.  My goals and needs are different, so I don't see why I would consider myself a member of that group.  I understand why some people may want to associate with the LGBT+ community, but I personally don't feel the need.  I'm fine if people consider me a part of that group, and I'm fine if they don't.  It doesn't really impact my life either way.  But I don't personally consider myself a part of the community.

[aussiekirkland]

I feel like we need a place in the LGBT community or an open door so that aros and aces can participate if/when they want to but of course we still need seperate aro, ace and aro ace communities because we have our own needs that can only be met in an intimate community setting. I personally love having access to both. I spend almost everyday on aro ace tumblr and I also went to pride last year and it's a wonderful environment.

[aussiekirkland]

On 3 May 2016 at 4:10 AM, Spud said:

I don't usually have very strong opinions on things... and I still don't

 

I think that ace/aros can identify as part of the LGBT+ if they want to, but I'm not so sure about using the qu**r (not sure if I have to censor it) slur unless they are homo/pan/bi/trans etc. romantic or sexual.

 

Of course, people argue that many heteros would be "intruding on their space" which I think seems kind of silly because most hetero aces/aros don't even want to be a part of the community in the first place. Obviously every group under the umbrella is different and cannot speak for all other groups, so I don't see why it would hurt to include aces/aros if they wanted.

 

On a side note, I notice that cis aromantic aces tend to get left out of the discussion completely and everyone focuses on just the "straight aces/aros" and the "gay, bi, trans, etc. aces/aros." They are in kind of a weird position since they aren't straight, gay, or trans.

 

I'm curious about others' thoughts (I have a very wishy-washy opinion on things)

I'm cis aro ace and when I think about The Discourse and how it effects me personally I am comfortable identifying as LGBT or in the queer community, as a group term, but not as a personal identifier. So you'll hear me say "queer community" but not referring to myself or others as queer since that's something I feel the person needs to give the okay for.

 

I definitely see myself as LGBT because I am not attracted to the opposite sex, which results in my breaking away from gender norms and heteronormativity by the very nature of my orientation, which is the main thing I have in common with SGA and trans people.

 

I very much hate the discourse because as a cis aro ace it's suuuper alienating. I'm constantly being told that my identities are unimportant (like with het > aro, bi > ace or trans > aro ace etc) and if I'm not LGBT or straight then where does that leave me??? I try not to think about it because the LGBT people in my life are comfortable with and welcoming of me as a cis aro ace and that's what's important.

[morallygayro]

On 4/30/2016 at 9:56 PM, Cassiopeia said:

tbh my experiences with homophobia and arophobia are quite similar. the same patterns. the same misguided assumptions. the otherization. the isolation. the stigma. the random hate. the same story, just different slurs ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

 

(Anyway, who came up with The Discussion in the first place? Like usually arophobes start with this argument, then comes the "wtf, you can't be gay and aro, you must choose a side", and then the rest of the hate... Just make it stop already. I'm so tired of it.)

Really? A lot of the time, I feel closer to non-aro gay and bi girls than to aros who aren't girls that like girls. And I've seen a ton of online support from the sapphic community for aro women.

 

Plus, a lot of the 'hate' is actually 1) us calling other aros out on homophobia and 2) Us being uncomfortable with straight cis aros being in the LGBT community. Which I can completely understand and sympathize with, and there's no reason aros can't just make a community outside of the LGBT community and some very good reasons why everyone involved would be better off if we did.

On 5/31/2016 at 4:41 AM, aussiekirkland said:

I'm cis aro ace and when I think about The Discourse and how it effects me personally I am comfortable identifying as LGBT or in the queer community, as a group term, but not as a personal identifier. So you'll hear me say "queer community" but not referring to myself or others as queer since that's something I feel the person needs to give the okay for.

 

I definitely see myself as LGBT because I am not attracted to the opposite sex, which results in my breaking away from gender norms and heteronormativity by the very nature of my orientation, which is the main thing I have in common with SGA and trans people.

 

I very much hate the discourse because as a cis aro ace it's suuuper alienating. I'm constantly being told that my identities are unimportant (like with het > aro, bi > ace or trans > aro ace etc) and if I'm not LGBT or straight then where does that leave me??? I try not to think about it because the LGBT people in my life are comfortable with and welcoming of me as a cis aro ace and that's what's important.

I think it just makes you aroace, but not LGBT or cishet. I don't feel that being aro makes me LGBT - being nonbinary and gay does.

[Cassiopeia]

1 hour ago, morallygayro said:

Really? A lot of the time, I feel closer to non-aro gay and bi girls than to aros who aren't girls that like girls. And I've seen a ton of online support from the sapphic community for aro women.

 

Well, obviously one's orientation isn't a guarantee that they are decent human beings.

I have got both support and hate in various wlw communities, depending on the people in them. I do feel close to both communities, although sometimes I feel like I'm an ambassador.  I guess that's okay, and bringing a different perspective to a community is a good part of being a "child of two worlds".

 

But what I was saying in that particular post is, that the way hate is communicated is so similar. I did not mention the exact group as I wanted to talk about patterns and dynamics here.

 

But yes, there is that too, not just among wlw, but all lgbtq+ communities.

 

[morallygayro]

On 5/31/2016 at 4:41 AM, aussiekirkland said:

I'm cis aro ace and when I think about The Discourse and how it effects me personally I am comfortable identifying as LGBT or in the queer community, as a group term, but not as a personal identifier. So you'll hear me say "queer community" but not referring to myself or others as queer since that's something I feel the person needs to give the okay for.

 

I definitely see myself as LGBT because I am not attracted to the opposite sex, which results in my breaking away from gender norms and heteronormativity by the very nature of my orientation, which is the main thing I have in common with SGA and trans people.

 

I very much hate the discourse because as a cis aro ace it's suuuper alienating. I'm constantly being told that my identities are unimportant (like with het > aro, bi > ace or trans > aro ace etc) and if I'm not LGBT or straight then where does that leave me??? I try not to think about it because the LGBT people in my life are comfortable with and welcoming of me as a cis aro ace and that's what's important.

I think it just makes you aroace, but not LGBT or cishet. I don't feel that being aro makes me LGBT - being nonbinary and gay does.

[morallygayro]

On 5/31/2016 at 4:41 AM, aussiekirkland said:

I'm cis aro ace and when I think about The Discourse and how it effects me personally I am comfortable identifying as LGBT or in the queer community, as a group term, but not as a personal identifier. So you'll hear me say "queer community" but not referring to myself or others as queer since that's something I feel the person needs to give the okay for.

 

I definitely see myself as LGBT because I am not attracted to the opposite sex, which results in my breaking away from gender norms and heteronormativity by the very nature of my orientation, which is the main thing I have in common with SGA and trans people.

 

I very much hate the discourse because as a cis aro ace it's suuuper alienating. I'm constantly being told that my identities are unimportant (like with het > aro, bi > ace or trans > aro ace etc) and if I'm not LGBT or straight then where does that leave me??? I try not to think about it because the LGBT people in my life are comfortable with and welcoming of me as a cis aro ace and that's what's important.

I think it just makes you aroace, but not LGBT or cishet. I don't feel that being aro makes me LGBT - being nonbinary and gay does

 

On 4/30/2016 at 10:35 PM, DannyFenton123 said:

There can be both a big LGBTQIA community and smaller communities for specific identities. It's not one or the other

Yeah, there's the bi community and the lesbian community and the gay male community and the trans community and the nonbinary community, and specific gendered communities for bi women and bi men, trans women and trans men, mlm and wlw. There are communities for people who are LGBT in more than one way, like trans lesbians or nonbinary bisexuals. There are communities for people who are LGBT and also marginalized in another way, like the wlw and Q/TPoC and neuroqueer communities. There are even separate communities for butch wlw and femme wlw.

 

But those people are all part of the greater LGBT community as well, despite having a smaller community of their own.

 

What I'm trying to find out is, how many aces and aros believe that all aces and aros, by virtue of being ace or aro, belong in that wider community?

[morallygayro]

On 5/1/2016 at 1:38 PM, Mark said:

There is the difficulty that a big diverse "community" may, in practice, be less diverse than the name implies. A group made up primarily of homosexual. homoromantic, cis-gendered people may not be useful to, even welcoming of, people outside that demographic. Both biphobia and transphobia are known problems here.
I wonder also if heteroromantic aces and heterosexual aros would to be lumped with non-hetersexuals too.
There also appear to be issue relating to having a different sexual and romantic orientation in a culture where they are assumed to coincide.
 

You know that bisexuals make up about half the LGBT community, right? And lots of gay people are asexual or aromantic, or not cis, or some combination of all of them. And I have a lot of LGBT friends and family, including:

 

1. An aroace demigirl

2. A bi cis boy who might be aro

3. A bi cis girl

4. A trans lesbian

5. Another bi cis boy

6. Another bi cis girl

7. A nonbinary aro lesbian (me)

8. A polysexual cis girl

9. A straight asexual trans boy

10. A bi trans girl

11. A genderfluid pansexual

12. Another genderfluid pansexual

13. A bi demigirl

14. A panromantic homosexual cis girl

15. A bisexual who was questioning their gender awhile back and I haven't asked how that turned out for them

16. And six gay cis guys and one cis lesbian. Any of them could be ace or aro or nonbinary or trans, I've never asked.

 

That's less than 1/3 of the entire community, AT MOST. I don't think you can argue that the LGBT community is made up mostly of "homosexual homoromantic (don't call us that btw) cis people if the rest of the community is as diverse as that.

 

[morallygayro]

On 5/7/2016 at 1:03 PM, Lynx said:

I might sound idealistic and naive in this, but why shouldn't we band together and support each other? I know aro (and ace) issues are different, but surely every letter in the acronym goes through a slightly different set within themselves? I'm not dead set on this, and admittedly part of me just doesn't really want to get kicked out of the club if I figure out that I'm not attracted to girls in the slightest, but I'm not seeing much more logic than "you're different to us" or "you're not oppressed enough for our support". We're all a bit different and appreciate some solidarity. Idgi.

Yeah, you would be kicked out if you're not gay, bi, or trans...because the LGBT community was originally for gay, bi, and trans people, because of mutual agreement by those three groups to start a coalition to fight back against a shared set of social problems that was hurting all of them...and you wouldn't be gay, bi, or trans. But 1) it's highly unlikely that that would happen because, a lot of the time, if you think you're SGA you probably are and 2) it's not like you wouldn't have ANY community. You'd still have the aroace community.

[morallygayro]

Whatever you do, please don't compare people who are uncomfortable with straight cis aros and straight cis aces identifying with the LGBT community to TWEFs. A lot of us are trans girls (I'm not one, but a lot of trans girls have told me that they're uncomfortable with this), and it's just not okay to compare a trans girl to a TWEF. Ever.

[Cassiopeia]

On 2016. 06. 04. at 2:35 AM, morallygayro said:

Yeah, you would be kicked out if you're not gay, bi, or trans...because the LGBT community was originally for gay, bi, and trans people, because of mutual agreement by those three groups to start a coalition to fight back against a shared set of social problems that was hurting all of them...and you wouldn't be gay, bi, or trans. But 1) it's highly unlikely that that would happen because, a lot of the time, if you think you're SGA you probably are and 2) it's not like you wouldn't have ANY community. You'd still have the aroace community.

 

The LGBT+ community originally had a very different concept of queer identities. The concepts, the terminology, the definitions change. Originally it was a coalition for all sorts of freaks and weirdos, nobody had anything figured out. And yes, this internal catfight is been going on since Forever. Some people wanted to kick out all sorts of segments of this word mosaic at different points in time, usually when it was convenient to do so.

 

And also, which community are we talking about? There are small groups all over the world, and they aren't exactly uniform. If you speak more than one language, and have engaged in different communities, you will notice the differences.

Its not like there is an actual leadership that would decide who is holier than thou, there is no initiation ceremony, this isn't the damn Illuminati.

There are just people who have the resources and the ability to do more, so they started to organize.

 

You know what this is about? Survival.

The LGBTQ+ organizations and charities are there so we don't f***ing die, and are allowed to live with dignity. Simple as that. The aro/ace community does not have its own resources, and will not have in the near future. Right now we don't even have the numbers. Some of our people do need these things, because of their aro and/or ace identities, so I think we do have shared problems.

 

Including but not limited to:

 

Suicide helplines and mental health services: if someone has a weaker moment around 2 am, because they have no friends, will probably never have a romantic partner, and they feel terribly alone, then they have a helpline to call. And to have someone who is educated enough on aro/ace issues and does not to tell them something along the lines of "oh sweeety there is someone for everybody"...and a able to offer some sort of help to them.

 

Education, libraries: its quite hard to access information, even with the internet. Those books on our orientations are not necessarily purchasable to everyone. If we want to organize a movie nights, talks, any sorts of social gatherings, chances are its going to be the local LGBTQ centre, a, they are the most likely to give us the spaces, b, that's were people will look for these events.

 

Housing: People could be kicked out by their parents or their landlords, or going through a bad divorce, or bullied by flatmates. Anyway, the result is the same, and something has to be done.

 

Standing up for each other: So basically if there is some sort of attack on the aro or on the ace community, other activists would stand up for us and vice versa.

 

Inclusive sex education: Schools should have an inclusive, positive, non-faith based education program that covers gender, sexuality, romantic orientation etc.

 

Sexual health: celibacy for life isn't a realistic option for everyone. Without the monogamy of a romantic relationship, you know things happen, there are hookups, prostitution, etc. Considering all of these, I think its safe to say that allo aros are a high risk group for STDs, unwanted pregnancies etc.

 

Misrepresentation, systematic bullying etc: Lets not even start on this one....

 

Ending medical stigma and conversion therapy: Some bigoted families do not accept that their children will not live in a heterosexual marriage, and will take them to some witchdoctors  to "get them fixed."

 

Just because one is individually lucky, and did not have to deal with any of these problems, can we guarantee that no aro or ace person would ever have to deal with these things? If not trough the LGBTQ+ resources, can we create independent means to deal with these problems? Also, soon?

 

On a personal level everybody does whatever they want, go to the pride march or not, go to these meetups or not, use these services or not, whatever. But saying that every aro and/or ace should stay away from these resources because they haven't got the right, is in my opinion a bit of a high horse.

[morallygayro]

1 hour ago, Cassiopeia said:

 

The LGBT+ community originally had a very different concept of queer identities. The concepts, the terminology, the definitions change. Originally it was a coalition for all sorts of freaks and weirdos, nobody had anything figured out. And yes, this internal catfight is been going on since Forever. Some people wanted to kick out all sorts of segments of this word mosaic at different points in time, usually when it was convenient to do so.

 

And also, which community are we talking about? There are small groups all over the world, and they aren't exactly uniform. If you speak more than one language, and have engaged in different communities, you will notice the differences.

Its not like there is an actual leadership that would decide who is holier than thou, there is no initiation ceremony, this isn't the damn Illuminati.

There are just people who have the resources and the ability to do more, so they started to organize.

 

You know what this is about? Survival.

The LGBTQ+ organizations and charities are there so we don't f***ing die, and are allowed to live with dignity. Simple as that. The aro/ace community does not have its own resources, and will not have in the near future. Right now we don't even have the numbers. Some of our people do need these things, because of their aro and/or ace identities, so I think we do have shared problems.

 

Including but not limited to:

 

Suicide helplines and mental health services: if someone has a weaker moment around 2 am, because they have no friends, will probably never have a romantic partner, and they feel terribly alone, then they have a helpline to call. And to have someone who is educated enough on aro/ace issues and does not to tell them something along the lines of "oh sweeety there is someone for everybody"...and a able to offer some sort of help to them.

 

Education, libraries: its quite hard to access information, even with the internet. Those books on our orientations are not necessarily purchasable to everyone. If we want to organize a movie nights, talks, any sorts of social gatherings, chances are its going to be the local LGBTQ centre, a, they are the most likely to give us the spaces, b, that's were people will look for these events.

 

Housing: People could be kicked out by their parents or their landlords, or going through a ad divorce, or bullied by flatmates. Anyway, the result is the same, and something has to be done.

 

Standing up for each other: So basically if there is some sort of attack on the aro or on the ace community, other activists would stand up for us and vice versa.

 

Inclusive sex education: Schools should have an inclusive, positive, non-faith based education program that covers gender, sexuality, romantic orientation etc.

 

Sexual health: celibacy for life isn't a realistic option for everyone. Without the monogamy of a romantic relationship, you know things happen, there are hookups, prostitution, etc. Considering all of these, I think its safe to say that allo aros are a high risk group for STDs, unwanted pregnancies etc.

 

Misrepresentation, systematic bullying etc: Lets not even start on this one....

 

Ending medical stigma and conversion therapy: Some bigoted families do not accept that their children will not live in a heterosexual marriage, and will take them to some witchdoctors  to "get them fixed."

 

Just because one is individually lucky, and did not have to deal with any of these problems, can we guarantee that no aro or ace person would ever have to deal with these things? If not trough the LGBTQ+ resources, can we create independent means to deal with these problems? Also, soon?

 

On a personal level everybody does whatever they want, go to the pride march or not, go to these meetups or not, use these services or not, whatever. But saying that every aro and/or ace should stay away from these resources because they haven't got the right, is in my opinion a bit of a high horse.

Obviously not every aro or ace would be denied access to LGBT resources - as aro lesbians, and in my case as a nonbinary aro, we have as much right to feel safe and comfortable in LGBT spaces as anyone else. As a disabled nonbinary lesbian, I have a right to accessibility, neurodivergent-positive activism, and safe spaces exclusive to disabled queer people. We both have a right to LGBT spaces that don't slut shame women, that are pro-choice, and that listen to women and prioritize LGBT women's needs.

 

BUT my being disabled? Our being women? Those aren't LGBT identities. And even though both women (including straight women) and disabled people, and especially disabled women, are also punished for our sexualities because of slut-shaming, misogyny, and ableist hyper- and de-sexualization, even though there are incredibly high rates of violence against disabled women, that doesn't mean cishet women and cishet disabled people are entitled to LGBT spaces or resources.

 

We belong in the LGBT community because we're lesbians. I also belong because I'm nonbinary. We also belong in the aro community because we're aros, and there's no reason the aro community automatically needs to belong in LGBT and - especially in light of what happened with David Jay - some very good reasons why it shouldn't. We can build our own suicide hotlines. We can have our own activist organizations, our own health centers. They should intersect with LGBT organizations, especially since a lot of people are both LGBT and aro, but they don't need to be PART of LGBT organizations per se.

 

And I just wish we'd done that already. The only reason we haven't is that the aro and ace communities, cis straight aros and aces in particular, wasted their time trying to push themselves into a community and take its resources when so many of the current, rightful members of that community have made it very clear that straight cis people, whether aro, ace, or neither, aren't welcome.

 

That's a ton of time and energy that should have gone toward actually building aro and ace communities, and it is not LGBT people's - including aro and ace LGBT people's - fault that it didn't.

 

There should absolutely be resources for specifically for aros and aces in the LGBT community - for aro lesbians, for ace bi people, for trans/nonbinary aroaces.

 

But when a straight cis person is taking up the line in a LGBT suicide hotline, or a bed in a queer youth shelter, or a chair in a support group? That safe space is taken away from a gay, bi, or trans person who probably needs it more.

[morallygayro]

I'll stop commenting now. I don't want to bias the results.

[Cassiopeia]

There should be resources for aros and aces, we can agree on that. But there aren't.

The problem is, building these safety nets and resources does take time. That time can mean lives, its not like people can reschedule a life crisis because its inconvenient. People "infiltrate" these spaces and resources because they have no choice. And they will continue to do so until there is an alternative.

 

If there was an alternative, it would be a bit more fair thing to ask them to keep out of LGBTQ+ spaces... I'm not sure if its a right thing right now. I'm certainly not a person who would feel entitled to go around and decide who is queer enough to deserve to live.

[morallygayro]

9 minutes ago, Cassiopeia said:

There should be resources for aros and aces, we can agree on that. But there aren't.

The problem is, building these safety nets and resources does take time. That time can mean lives, its not like people can reschedule a life crisis because its inconvenient. People "infiltrate" these spaces and resources because they have no choice. And they will continue to to do so until there is an alternative.

 

If there was an alternative, it would be a bit more fair thing to ask them to keep out of LGBTQ+ spaces... I'm not sure if its a right thing right now. I'm certainly not a person who would feel entitled to go around ad decide who is queer enough to deserve more to live.

A lot of LGBT resources were built within five years of Stonewall. Now, we have more technology with which we can communicate, meaning that we can get together and build a community much faster than Sylvia Rivera and her contemporaries did during the 1970s. And I really shouldn't have to remind you - cisgender, heterosexual aros and cis heteroromantic aces are FAR less likely to need something like a suicide hotline or a support group than gay, bi, and trans people. They're also far less likely to be correctively raped, experience job discrimination, or be denied housing.

 

Until we can actually get our collective asses into gear and convince straight cis aros and aces to stop trying to make LGBT people feel unsafe - and I've gotten physically threatened by a straight cis aro for calling them straight -  we can use some LGBT resources, but the ones we use should not go to straight cis people first.

[Cassiopeia]

1 hour ago, morallygayro said:

A lot of LGBT resources were built within five years of Stonewall. Now, we have more technology with which we can communicate, meaning that we can get together and build a community much faster than Sylvia Rivera and her contemporaries did during the 1970s.

 

Okay, but how many people died during that five year period due to the lack of resources?

And also, that was one country, things changed a lot more slowly in other places. In some other places that wasn't five years, but 20 and its still not secure. How many were left in impossible situations during that time? How many died?

If there was an already functioning social safety net system at the time by another minority activist group, do you think they would have turned them away?

 

<tw>

Quote

And I really shouldn't have to remind you - cisgender, heterosexual aros and cis heteroromantic aces are FAR less likely to need something like a suicide hotline or a support group than gay, bi, and trans people. They're also far less likely to be correctively raped, experience job discrimination, or be denied housing.

 

Alright, but if it does happen, then what? If tomorrow I see a post on this forum by a cis heteroromantic ace, that they have been correctively raped by their partner, what should I tell them? I mean personally I'd probably give them all the info on the resources I'm aware of. And probably the most queer friendly ones will be on top of the list, because chances are, those folks will wrap their heads around asexuality much quicker than some other randoms. The least thing such person in distress needs is to deal with the identity police in a lab coat.

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Until we can actually get our collective asses into gear and convince straight cis aros and aces to stop trying to make LGBT people feel unsafe - and I've gotten physically threatened by a straight cis aro for calling them straight -  we can use some LGBT resources, but the ones we use should not go to straight cis people first.

 

Yeah the ongoing catfight. I have been around LGBTQ+ communities for ten-ish years now, I have seen people of all sorts of identities threatened by other people of other identities, verbally, physically, emotionally, online, offline, outed, blackmailed, you name it. Its never been a big happy family, and I doubt it that it ever will, but I'm trying to see past personal venedettas and concentrate on the big picture.

If we start going around ranking people, who deserves more, who is first, who slightly less...do we rank the rest of the LGBTQ+ too? Based on what? Am I the only one who finds that concept sickening?

[Vega]

As comes to support structures and LGBT+ friendly therapists: I've had a therapist hear of my asexuality and start focusing on it, trying to "cure" it. I'm certainly not the only aro ace to experience that. This from people who would probably have no problem with a person identifying as lesbian.

Also, I'm sure those gay-resources sprung up in large cities. What about those people who live in the middle of nowhere? Or, as Cassiopeia said, people not in the US? There's still places within the US that don't really have LGBT+ resources, never mind anything to do with aromanticism or asexuality.

I think it's a bit selfish to kick aro people out of LGBT+ spaces, since frankly many of us are extremely isolated. Besides, the LGBT movement has a history of erasing bi and trans people as well, and those divisions never help the community.

 

While being threatened or attacked is never alright, maybe you should also not tell het aces they're straight. That is a personal decision, many people see straight as describing heterosexuality as well as heteroromanticism and certainly people aren't going to appreciate someone else telling them how they should identify, (Doesn't excuse threats or violence, of course.)