hemogoblin

I feel like I'm missing a part of this thought process or conversation. ? There are people who are aromantic, asexual, and agender. (They have some funny triple A battery pun jokes.) They're people just like the rest of us. Thinking of them as godlike reminds me of when people's first reaction to asexuality is "oh, you must be so productive!" Like, no, I'm depressed with terrible executive dysfunction issues, lmao. I also personally don't feel particularly positive about defining these identities as being "devoid" of something. =x I guess it's not a completely negative definition, but "devoid" does have negative connotations for me personally. Or are you talking about writing a deity character who is triple A or something???

Oh, oh, OH! Thanks for being so patient and saying it like this ^^^. I can see now I was definitely misunderstanding your question earlier! I was definitely just thinking you were meaning general queer history (which is heavily shared between groups), not specifically-defined-community's-history. I was, kinda misleadingly, using "community" more to refer to a group of people that could potentially be united under a specific label rather than a specifically defined and named community, so I definitely contributed to my own misunderstanding there, lol. In this case, gotchya, sorry about that, - and no, I don't have any resources (nor personal anecdotes) for this.

Unfortunately, considering the relatively short amount of time that "aromantic" has existed as its own term and own community, I think that's just a persistent problem across aromantic history. Honestly, it's an issue across queer history in general. It's unfortunately easier for us to contextualize based on modern terms that we know nowadays, but all we can do when we look back is extrapolate based on what we know about then and apply it to a framework we understand now. It's why we end up in debates over why certain historical figures were trans men or lesbian - when in reality, they were likely really neither, since those concepts didn't exist for the time we're querying over. Or why we end up in debates over historical figures being gay/lesbian or bisexual based off of what knowledge we have over them (and in particular their writings that have survived, since I'm thinking of multiple writers throughout history), especially when specific work has been done to suppress the queerness of history. It's 100% fair and necessary to apply the critical view you're applying when sorting through and processing this information, but I do think there needs to be a degree of openness that we consume such information and remember how much of queer history has been suppressed and how much queer terminology - not to mention English itself - has changed over time, and how a lot of the times, we can't just look at our history and for sure see "oh, yup, queer history - and it specifically pertains to [x] and [y] modern categories!" because those categories are far more modern than a lot of our history. To an extent, we do have to rely on a level of extrapolation or risk losing our history. But like I said, I don't have many more specific references I can actually provide off the top of my head. It's up to each one of us on our own to judge the information for ourselves and decide what stock we can/should put in it.

Okay, so this focuses on the inclusion of asexuality as a part of bisexual history, but keep in mind that the aromantic community split off/was borne from the asexaul community, so the histories are one and the same in a lot of spaces for a lot of time: https://bi-asexual.tumblr.com/post/161938628812/aphostraphe-pls-give-me-1one-reason-aces-have I know, I know - that's a tumblr link! But it's got tons of cited sources (take a look at the book recs) and it wouldn't be fair of me to just copy'pasta all that work over here ignoring the work OP put into compiling those resources. I don't know how much specific work has been put forth in documenting this, but keep in mind that we keep more strictly defining labels and communities as time goes on, so a lot of queer history is all wrapped up in each other. This is easier to see with aromantic and asexual, since that was a more recent split that probably a lot of us here either witnessed firsthand or have heard others talking about. But before that, we were included under the bisexual umbrella - and before that, bi and lesbian history is tied up in each other as I'm sure bi and gay history are also intertwined, and before that we were all just "gay" (as we know it today - that's a simplification of labels throughout history and is ofc americentric, but yeah). And, ofc, at some point, gender started getting its down defined community, but I believe a lot of that was tied up in gay/lesbian history as well, just due to where we were at terminology-wise. I've picked up a lot of that just by following and learning from queer scholars and queer elders more than by referencing any particular resource. Specifically, I've gained a lot of this knowledge by reading takedowns of TERFs and lesbian separatists who've tried to start rumors meant to tear apart queer communities. The LGBT page on wiki talks a little bit about this evolution. Might be a good place to start poking around for more resources and references? @Coyote

Super delayed response after my original, admittedly defensive, response. Sorry about that - I needed some time to digest and think. I realize I stepped into this thread without a clear purpose or reason for posting, then I posted while only trying to interpret other people's words instead of just sharing my own thoughts. This really only served to detract and derail from the original purpose of the thread. I am deeply sorry about that and would like to apologize about that to you, @Mark, and the other participants of the thread. I am sorry, and I'll do more work to sit back and learn more rather than speaking out about things I am ill-informed about.

I always forget about this one until I re-watch the movie and then I get excited about it all over again: Jonathan from The Mummy. Total aro vibes.

Hm, interesting umbrella terms you used later in your post (cis in particular). Do you have the same concerns about those terms? Asexual is actually considered an umbrella term itself because it encompasses many different ways to be asexual. What makes allosexual redundant but asexual fine? Just like some cis people don't like the term cis because it normalizes instead of Others trans people, some alloro allosexual people also don't like the term allo because it normalizes instead of Others asexuality and aromanticism. AFAIK, 'popularization' (though not specific coinage) of allo definitely originated in aspec spaces for ease of use (and to have something better than the crude "sexuals" that was sometimes used before). I've hesitated to start using allo myself, but for completely different reasons - because I was exposed to the early discourse about the roots of allosexual. I've never quite felt satisfied over the resolution of that discussion (which... there wasn't really? it's just the term that caught on and stayed on), but the fact that allo aros have normalized using the term for themselves has made me keep rethinking things. It seems like at this point the root of the term isn't even a part of the discussion anymore and so possibly a moot point? Like any other term that's had multiple uses that have evolved throughout history (I still remember how offended people were over the definition of literally being updated to include the hyperbolic usage - language/change seems to be a sticky point for many of us).

A couple possibilities for you to look into that crossed my mind: - Maybe you're demiromantic or gray-aromantic? - Maybe you're cupioromantic? - Maybe you're aromantic and that time with your friend was just an exception? - Maybe you were experiencing more of a desire for a queerplatonic-type relationship with your friend rather than a desire for a romantic relationship? - Finding people attractive to look at could be aesthetic attraction/finding people aesthetically pleasing. - Seems like there could also be a component of asexuality to your attraction, whether you decide to label that or not, that might help explain some parts of how you feel? Those were a lot of terms, but maybe it'll give you some things to look into and read about? Just learning more about aromanticism and the spectrum it encompasses might help you figure yourself out more. At the end of the day, though, only you can determine what any of this means about you! You are the best and only judge of your own identity. = )

I feel like travel should be a part of aro culture. I like travel, I want to travel, I don't have to compromise with a partner on where I want to travel, and I personally don't have or want pets or kids, so I also don't have to plan for them while I'm away. I can just... get out and go! Also it can go hand in hand with nature being a part of aro culture if you like camping and hiking. o3o

I think it's good to be aware of how certain experiences may be shaping us, but I also don't think you need to get too caught up in the fact that those experiences may have shaped us to the point where you try to talk yourself out of your feelings or invalidate your feelings. So, maybe the relationship your parents modeled for you and the time you tried dating did impact how you feel. ... So? The question is: do you want to change any of the ways you feel about dating and romance and marriage? If you're comfortable and satisfied with not wanting to date or get married, then why try and change that just because you've had bad experiences of how relationships were modeled to you? Correlation or causation - you may never really be able to work that out, but does it really matter? I don't think so. What it comes down to: do you want to ID as aromantic (spec)? Would it help you to do so? Then do it!!!

Hey there! That's a really tough position you find yourself in. I know this isn't exactly what you were looking for advice regarding, but I would encourage you to be honest with your friend sooner rather than later. There probably will be hurt feelings - but the longer you draw out doing this, the worse it's gonna be. It's unfair to you both to stay in this relationship when you don't want to. As for if you're aromantic or just not interested in your friend specifically, I agree with Sufletromanesc that you're doing well by thinking about it! Some times it just takes more time to work these things out. I think the fact that you've never been interested in pursuing a romantic relationship is something to keep in mind. Now that you've tried it once, have things changed? Are you still largely uninterested? Remember, labels aren't about taking some test and getting back a 100% positive, absolutely, for sure, result of "you're [x] identity!". Labels are about us. What helps us communicate how we feel? What makes us feel connected and/or comfortable and/or safe to identify as? What labels help you connect to others with similar experiences?

Just wanted to thank you, @Blue Phoenix Ace, for doing the work of hosting and managing these forums for as long as you have! < 3 I wish I'd found this place sooner, but I'm glad I got a short time here, at least.

You certainly could be - anyone could be! It sounds like you've started doing some good thinking on this. I would look at asking yourself: Why did you feel like aro was not something at all open to you? What's changed? Is there possibly still confusion here that we could help clear up for you? Do you want to ID as aro(spec)? Are you curious about doing so? How does it make you feel to think that you might ID as aro(spec)? Any answers along the lines of "I want to ID as aro" or "I think I might want to try ID'ing as aro" or "I think aro might fit me" or "I identify with a lot of other aro experiences I've seen talked about" or "Even though I'm scared, it gives me some sort of positive feeling to think about ID'ing as aro" are a good sign that you should let yourself ID as aro and explore what that could mean to you and how it makes you feel after you've had time to try it on!

It's not bad to be with two people. But that's not at all what cheating is. Cheating is not the same as an open relationship or polyamory, which are consensual and agreed upon relationships. Cheating is nonconsensual. Cheating is an outright lie to someone that crosses a stated/agreed upon boundary of conduct with each other. It's bad to lie and gaslight and cross boundaries (and often it exposes people to unsafe sexual practice that one or more parties is unaware of and therefore unprepared for) - all of which can seriously impact someone's mental and emotional health to be manipulated and treated like that. I get how you feel because the one time I dated, I wanted nothing more than for my now-ex to have some of his needs met by other people more willing and with more energy to meet them. He had blanket permission to do whatever with whoever else from me (which upset and offended him very much), so there was not really a way to cheat on me. But not everyone feels the same way, and that's the difference. Think of a boundary that's important to you. (Maybe you have a boundary about being touched in a certain way or about a policy of honesty with friends or a certain level of contact with a family member or maybe even a boundary about interactions with your boss/another person in authority over you.) Think of someone you care about (or otherwise a relevant person in that scenario) in some capacity that explicitly knows you have that boundary and then specifically ignores and crosses that boundary and then outright lies about it, perhaps even gaslighting you to get you to believe them. Or even imagine that they secretly crossed that boundary and then later admitted to doing it, either by your confrontation or completely out of the blue because they felt bad about it. That might help you understand more how it feels when people get cheated on.

I don't see why this couldn't be a solid short story! If you wanted to expand it, you could have them getting whirlwind married and something never feeling right until months or years down the road they realize that it was just the dance and the music and there was never really love there. I think your idea for this being a small part of a larger story could also work fine. Like this is just one small moment in their life that seemed big and meaningful at the time but was ultimately rather meaningless.

That's good to hear Twig55! I hope this is the end of it. It's definitely okay to be sad over this, as well. He was a friend before this, and friend heartbreak is as real and valid as any other heartbreak from any other relationship that ends. It can hurt to cut off a relationship even if you weren't that close because it changes the possibility of getting close. Give yourself some time to feel bad and grieve about what happened.

Whoa, how bizarre and upsetting! If he sent a global 'f- you' to the entire company, I would suspect they'll be watching him pretty closely and likely speaking with him as soon as he comes into work again, which I think will help work in your favor. I know you don't want to go to HR, but I would absolutely speak to your manager ASAP. Don't put it off. If he's ignoring your boundaries, your manager needs to help take steps so that you to are separated and someone is keeping an eye on him at the very least. Honestly, if you can contact your manager before Monday or go in early to meet with them about this, that might be best. I would also block him on all social media and whatever else form of contact you have with him. If you can reach out to other friends of his who would be safer interacting with him, I would also do that. They can check in on him and help support him with whatever he's got going on. If he's experiencing some sort of breakdown, that's very sad, and I hope he gets the help he needs, but you don't need to "help" him by putting yourself in unsafe and/or mentally compromising situations around him. I think it might be best for now to treat him as a work colleague and nothing more. Be professional but curt and hold him at a distance if he does approach you. Invoke your manager's name if you need help detangling from interactions, like "[manager] is really on me not to have so much downtime today, so I really need to get to work, so I don't have time to chat" or "I actually need to meet with [manager] right now, excuse me". I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. It does sound pretty scary/uncomfortable. I hope it works out for the best!

Ask @Mark, the user whose post I was responding to. They're the one who asked for proof of aro "stuff" on ace sites several times now.

I actually don't think that's ironic or that it goes against the point, and I am aware of the criticism of fyeahace. I wasn't disagreeing that aro-content in ace-spaces is going to have an ace-perspective, nor did I say it was universally appreciated representation. That was simply an example of aro-content being easier to find in ace-spaces, not an example of the kind of aro-content people might want in general lgbt+/queer spaces (as I got at in the paragraph after the one you quoted).

@Mark It feels like you're having a different conversation than everyone else? Like, I don't think what you're saying is incorrect or disagreed upon, it's just... not a relevant reply to anything you're actually quoting. Like, I don't understand why you keep asking for examples of aro content on ace sites or keep putting "stuff" in quotation marks. This thread is about aro inclusion and aro information in general lgbt+/queer spaces, so "stuff" would refer to anything you'd like to see about aromanticism: its definition, discussions of amatonormativity, how it interacts with other attractions/attraction components, how it interacts with other identities, aro-specific terminology that's been created, deconstructing anti-aromantic sentiments, etc. There is something we clearly agree on: you're more likely to hear about aromanticism and get to participate in aromantic discussions in asexual-focused spaces. Which makes sense because for a long time, aromantic was a subset of asexual until we grew into our own community with a more defined sense of self and distinct separation of identity. If you want examples of aromanticism being more visible in ace-focused spaces, go browse the tumblr fuckyeahasexual. It's an ace-focused blog, but they do talk about aromanticism and I believe a couple of mods also identify as aro. Or, of course, AVEN, which has a whole "Romantic and Aromantic Orientations" section. The asexual wiki even has its own page dedicated to defining aromantic and various aromantic identities. Compare those to, say, GLSEN. Searching "aromantic" on their site brings up three posts. I only checked one, but in that one, it defines aphobia/acephobia as discrimination against asexual and/or aromantic people, but then doesn't include the term arophobia, doesn't even define aromantic, or mention aromanticism at any other point in the article. And searching aromantic on HRC's site brings up zero results. (On the other hand, PFLAG does actually define aromanticism as its own thing, which was cool to find out!) I'm also not sure why advocating for aro visibility in general lgbt+/queer spaces would mean just copy'pastaing content from ace-focused sites, nor do I see anyone actually suggesting that be what we do. Whoever provides the information will be the one providing the information. If you're advocating for aro content to be included in [x] space, you'd probably want to a) discuss and define what you want on your own terms, and b) provide resources they can use to learn more if at all possible (which thanks to the great folks behind AUREA will be a lot easier to provide an aro-focused resource perspective on aromantic resources). But also, we shouldn't discredit valuable aromantic resources and information just because they originated on an ace-focused site (since again, shared history). I agree that there are a lot of assumptions people new to the terminology may confuse about aromanticism and asexuality and the two can be conflated... but I think in recent discussions about this, we've forgotten that there is a lot of overlap between aromantic and asexual experiences and issues and our two communities and histories are not 100% clearly separated and unique. Like, I've seen aros get mad that aces call Will Jay's "Never Been in Love" an ace song, but they're doing that because they also relate to the song. I'm caedro, so I wasn't always aro, but for a long time, I suppressed and denied my romantic attraction because I had no idea about asexuality, aromanticism, or the split attraction model but I knew I was different from my peers and so I felt my feelings were somehow fake or made-up because I didn't know what they meant. If I'd heard Never Been in Love back then or even right after discovering my asexuality, I would have related to the song very strongly just because of my asexuality. A lot of aces also struggle with feeling like they somehow love "wrong" or in a "broken" or "incorrect" way due to their asexuality and living in an amatonormative coercive heterosexual society in a similar way to how many aros are impacted by amatonormativity and dehumanization as a result. Perhaps it's just tumblr, but non-ace aro voices have become way louder and more visible in recent months, which I think/hope is a good indication of a more balanced aromantic community where more diverse experiences are talked about. (Although by balance I do mean balance - aroace voices also have a place in our community, but I won't deny that we've been centered in the community thus far.) Anyway, to get back to the original topic, I agree that I'd love to see aromanticism become more visible and well-known and not just as a subset of asexuality. I actually do think this is happening (AUREA's creation and everyone's work during ASAW in particular is a really good sign imo) - we just have to remember that it takes time and keep speaking up where we can and supporting those who are advocating and working for more visibility.

I think one thing that helps is connecting with more aromantic people, like you did by joining here, and could do by following more aromantic social media blogs/creators. Just realizing how you're not the only one who feels the way you do can help immensely, but also, you'll probably be exposed to a lot of talk about coping with and unlearning amatonormative messages - and that can really help. Finally, just give yourself some time and be patient with yourself! There's stages of processing and coming to terms with your identity - even if you've known how you felt, finding a term for it can make it somehow real and concrete and that can be scary and hard. I'm actually caedromantic, so I did date when I was alloro, but even if trauma hadn't turned me aro, I still wouldn't date again after my experience. I just realized that people, especially romantic partners, just want more time, energy, focus, and dedication than I actually have the energy to give them. I personally found dating exhausting and limiting and, yeah, that is tinged by the fact that it was abusive, but spending time with others is something I struggled with even in friendships, where a lot of people just want to be together a lot more than I want to be with people and dating was just an exponential increase of those mismatches.

Look, posts and blogs by other aroflux peeps! https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/aroflux https://arofluxblog.tumblr.com/ (now inactive sadly) https://aroflux-and-anxious.tumblr.com/ https://arofluxsupport.tumblr.com/ https://www.tumblr.com/search/aroflux/recent Completely seconding everything LBMango said as well. Very well put!

< 3 Thanks for the clarification! In that case, I would try not to overly analyze what they're thinking because there could be any number of reasons they respond positively but don't start up the conversations or want to meet in person, but instead focus on what makes you happy and what are healthy decisions for your mental health right now. Is it making you unhappy to do all the reaching out and not have it returned? Then maybe it's time to turn down how often you contact them! If not, then maybe you want to continue as you have been. Is it making you exhausted to do all the reaching out and not have it returned? Then maybe it's time to step back and only contact them when you have the energy to do so and really want to. If not, then maybe you want to just keep doing what you're doing. Is it making you happy to reach out but unhappy once it's over and contact isn't reciprocated? Then maybe it's time to step back and give you both some space to process some more before re-navigating your friendship. If not, then maybe you keep contacting them and keep just talking about whatever with them. Is it making you unhappy or confusing your feelings to still be entangled in trying to navigate a friendship with this person so soon after breaking up? Then maybe it's time to take your own space - just until you've had more time to process and come to terms with the new state of the relationship! If not, then maybe it's okay to continue to explore what transitioning back to a non-partnered friendship means to the two of you. Be honest about what you want and need, and let your former partner be honest about what they want and need. Maybe you should have a conversation specifically addressing the break-up and what this transition means between the two of you and set some new expectations for what you each want out of the relationship? I think it makes sense that things are a little awkward and weird, since you're re-exploring an old (yet "new") stage of your relationship to each other and how it will work, so maybe specifically addressing that and talking about it a bit could help you both share expectations and have smoother interactions.

1. How would you define gender? An inner sense of self for how you navigate socio-cultural roles and classifications of people in an arbitrary and ambiguous categorical system that's loosely based on a combination of genitalia, body type, presentation, expression, and even personality. 2. Does it matters to you? Why? Yes... and no? I don't have a strong sense of gender in and of itself, but I do noticeably navigate the world of gender in an obvious and thoughtful manner that differs from the so-called expected defaults. 3. How do you know what gender you are? Introspection, exploration, and gut feeling. 4. For genderfluid people, how does it works? Sorry, I actually don't think I understand what this question is asking!

These are popular ones, but Katniss Everdeen and Elsa both give me really strong aro vibes. The ending of The Hunger Games has always bothered me and a large part of that was Katniss getting married and having kids and being seemingly completely uninterested in both. >________> I kinda like Mai from ATLA as aromantic as well. I love the idea of Roën from the Orisha trilogy as aromantic and I know quite a few people in the fandom who hc Tzain as aromantic (which I love because I relate a lot to him). I always felt like Christina Yang from Grey's Anatomy should be aromantic. A lot of the ways she acted in her relationships were really relatable and read as pretty aro to me. I could easily see Scully from X-Files as arospec. Frederico Estaban Giuseppe Gonzoga from the GFL series hits with me as a fellow caedromantic. The main character Quentin Barnes also reads as demiromantic (and grayasexual) to me. I've completely fallen out of the HP fandom, but when I was still invested in that story, the fandom turned me onto Harry as aromantic or gray-romantic, and I couldn't see him as anything else after that. (As well as Charlie Weasley and Oliver Wood.)