wlw appropriation

[Guest that one person]

Would a cis female aroace having short hair and wearing things like winged eyeliner and flannels be appropriating wlw culture? Where is the line there? 

It would be awesome to hear some input from wlw here but anyone's input would be appreciated. 

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

What? Is winged eyeliner considered a gay girl thing now? That's news to me. If anything I associate it more with straight girls. Clothes are clothes, man, wear what ya wanna. If wearing flannels is """appropriation""" now there's gonna be a lot of disgruntled Canadian men...

[nonmerci]

I don't think so. I mean, I am not a lesbian, but for me these things have nothing to do with being a being one. The stereotypical lesbian can be seen that way but for me, it is just a boyish style. Short hair was even a sign of woman emancipation before. I didn't know winged eyeliner was associating with lesbians, I think a lot of girls do it. And if you think flannel are great, I don't think wlw think of it as their symbol.

But again, I'm not part of this culture.

[mossy]

Nah I don't think so, those are clothes/styles that anyone can wear, and that didn't even originate among wlw as far as I know. I'm not wlw either but I don't see why not.

[Karst]

Personal style doesn't necessarily have anything to do with sexuality.  Worst case scenario, you might get mistaken for a lesbian, but no one's going to call you out for Appropriation.  Anyway, queer fashion isn't neatly divided up by orientation and gender.

[DeltaAro]

On 5/3/2021 at 3:53 AM, Guest that one person said:

Would a cis female aroace having short hair and wearing things like winged eyeliner and flannels be appropriating wlw culture? Where is the line there?

Never ever thought that “winged eyeliner and flannels” is a w|w thing…

Historically short hair for women appeared in Sparta, where married women wore short hair.

On 6/29/2021 at 12:00 AM, Guest Seven Ball said:

The very term "cultural appropriation" is tellng. It implies that culture can be "appropriated", i.e. taken away, like a thief. This implies ownership. But it doesn't work like that. AT ALL.

But we very regrettably have “Intellectual Property” – enshrined in law. That can’t be taken away, too. It isn’t scarce. But still it‘s called “property”… ?

On 6/29/2021 at 12:00 AM, Guest Seven Ball said:

Second of all, how do you know to which culture any given piece of art, or clothing, or whatever belongs to? Sometimes it is ambigious, sometimes it's something that took elements from multiple cultures. Culture is always fuzzy, but the idea of cultural appropriation ignores all that.

Third of all, how do you determine to which culture an individual belongs to? If you have an Iranian and a German parent and were born in France, are you then allowed to take part in Iranian culture? Or is your Iranian parent not enough? How much "pure Iranian blood" do you need?

Cultural appropriation is meant to be a fuzzy thing, too. It’s not that you’re ever prohibited from taking part in Iranian culture. Just that it’s expected that the more of an outsider you are, the more you should act with restraint and respect.

I mean, social norms are always fuzzy, very fuzzy. We have a lot of tolerance regarding fuzzy social norms. It’s laws that have to be more precise.

Anyway, I’m against the concept of cultural appropriation, because it lends legitimacy to the idea that a non-scarce resource can be owned. I think it’s inconsistent to be pro-IP but dismiss “cultural appropriation”.

Edited July 11, 2021 by DeltaV

[ilse]

lesbian here, no, it's not appropiation. anyone can have short hair, winged eyeliner or wear flannel. these things just happen to be popular among wlw, but they are not specific to us. i don't even think cultural appropiation can apply here since these aren't things that we created or that have their origins within the sapphic community as far as i know.

[Guest Seven Ball]

Ooooofff. "cultural appropriaton"... You have hit my sweet spot right there! And with "sweet spot" I mean you have triggered my RANT MODE! xD

The idea of "cultural appropriation" as being fundamental evil/immoral is a fundamentally reactionary ideology. It separates people into groups/ethnicities, each of which is forced to stick to their "own" culture and they are never allowed to use any piece of culture that is not part of their "own".

It's like the entirety of culture itself is under copyright, and the only legal "owners" of the copyright are the members (real or supposed) of some kind of vague "culture", and outsiders are denied the right to use anything that does not "belong" to them, unless they got explicit "permission".

If you take cultural appropriation rejection to its logical conclusion, you will end up with a world of ethnostates in which "each kind sticks to their own". This kind of "logic" is indistinguishable to what a white nationalist would say.

The very term "cultural appropriation" is tellng. It implies that culture can be "appropriated", i.e. taken away, like a thief. This implies ownership. But it doesn't work like that. AT ALL.

In reality, culture isn't really separated into clear-cut borders. People throughout history have CONSTANTLY have copied, imitated each other. That's how culture and art have always developed. The idea that culture is something that you can and should own and gatekeep from "outsiders" is absolutely disgusting.

Second of all, how do you know to which culture any given piece of art, or clothing, or whatever belongs to? Sometimes it is ambigious, sometimes it's something that took elements from multiple cultures. Culture is always fuzzy, but the idea of cultural appropriation ignores all that.

Third of all, how do you determine to which culture an individual belongs to? If you have an Iranian and a German parent and were born in France, are you then allowed to take part in Iranian culture? Or is your Iranian parent not enough? How much "pure Iranian blood" do you need?

Do you understand where I'm going with this? This cultural appropriation nonsense is scarily similar to ethnonationalist ideologies.

 

Now, to end my little rant, here's finally my answer to your question:

Quote

Would a cis female aroace having short hair and wearing things like winged eyeliner and flannels be appropriating wlw culture? Where is the line there? 

My answer is: Who cares? It doesn't matter if that counts as "appropriation" because the whole concept of "evil" cultural appropriation is garbage.

How you dress yourselves is entirely up to you. If you like it, go for it. Don't listen to people who want to shame you for how you like to style yourself.

I think there are only 2 rules:

1) don't do it in a way that serves to degrade other people. Like if you wear a cappy with a literal Nazi swastika on it.
2) you don't claim or pretend "authenticity" if you directly copy some style. In other words, you don't lie ;)