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nonmerci

Aro representation in LGBT places

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Hi and happy new year everybody!

So, I got the feeling that we focus too much on aro inclusion in ace places. Which have sense considering that aro and ace has been tied together since the creation of ace community... but seems damaging too. For instance, people here saying they didn't realize they are aro because they thought you have to be ace : except for heterosexual aro (I don't think there exist hetero places like LGBT places?), learning about aromanticism on gay, bi, pan, transgenres,  etc places would have help them a lot. Also, aro would feel more safe in LGBT communities, and it would help aro awareness more.

But I don't know how to do that. I am not personnaly involved in queer places except arocalypse.  I can't picture myself go on a LGBT community and say "hi! We exist!". I don't feel legitimate. I think AUREA must have a role here.

 

So, what I'm trying to say is : we should stop to focus so much on the ace communities and look for other places too.

 

2020 will be the aro year!

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Honestly what you can do is check out your local queer orgs and see if they're trying to say something about identities beyond the LGBT, like even intersex people, nonbinary identities, aces. If they're in touch with what's happening in the wider world (and they should be), they could be including identities like those. And then it's my expectation that they'll also accept aros :) As far as AUREA can provide some legitimacy and official contact, regular aros getting involved is invaluable too!

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It is mostly difficult to find aro stuff in LGBTQ+ places because many don't think aromantism exists/it's a weird kind of straight/etc.

 

Personally I'm on a few LGBTQ+ sites and always try to include aromantism, but that's often difficult to make visible because of arophobia.

 

Therefore it's easier to find aromantic stuff on Ace sites, since aces face similar problems and because of aros and aces often getting tied together. I do plan to do some more aro information stuff on LGBTQ+ sites, but I don't expect anything to come from it.

 

If there were more aros on such sites, we would be getting more visibility and acceptance, I guess, but since there aren't many aros on such sites, many aros don't want to join, unless it ties in with another part of their identity.

 

But it has been getting better on some sites, with aros being mentioned and once or twice even ASAW.

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On 2/13/2020 at 4:53 PM, Morgenfluss said:

Therefore it's easier to find aromantic stuff on Ace sites, since aces face similar problems and because of aros and aces often getting tied together. I do plan to do some more aro information stuff on LGBTQ+ sites, but I don't expect anything to come from it.

I can't see how putting aroace information (which is what you typically find on ace sites) onto LGBTQ+ sites will help at all.
At best it won't become any more relevant to LGBTQ+ aros.

At worst it will encourage LGBTQ+ allos to conflate aro with ace and thus erase LGBTQ+ aros.

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On 2/14/2020 at 9:17 PM, Mark said:

I can't see how putting aroace information (which is what you typically find on ace sites) onto LGBTQ+ sites will help at all.
At best it won't become any more relevant to LGBTQ+ aros.

At worst it will encourage LGBTQ+ allos to conflate aro with ace and thus erase LGBTQ+ aros.

 

You must have misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about putting more aro info stuff up on LGBTQ+ sites, not aroace information. By doing so it may help them start to distinguish Aros and Aces, since I would be talking solely about aromantism.

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4 hours ago, Morgenfluss said:

You must have misunderstood what I was saying. I was talking about putting more aro info stuff up on LGBTQ+ sites, not aroace information. 

What is this "aro stuff" you thinking of?
Some links would help.
If it's from an ace site then it's most likely to aroace in nature. Since the target audience of such sites are asexual people.

 

4 hours ago, Morgenfluss said:

 By doing so it may help them start to distinguish Aros and Aces, since I would be talking solely about aromantism.

How would you distinguish between information which is aro ace and that which is aro?


Going back to @nonmerci's post 

Quote
On 1/1/2020 at 9:58 AM, nonmerci said:

people here saying they didn't realize they are aro because they thought you have to be ace

 

The reason for this is that most "aro stuff", including that on a-spec and aro sites, is from an aro ace POV.
Which, due to intersectionality, isn't likely to be something which non-asexual aros find relatable.
It's also possible that these may be poor at explaining aromantism to non-asexual allos.

What I think is needed here are resources which LGBTQ+ aros find relatable and which LGBTQ+ allos understand.

An example of this would be an articles about "non romantic relationships" which mentions "purely sexual", "sexual attraction" and "lust" rather than one about "squishs", "platonic relationships" and "QPRs". The latter is likely to have the typical LGBTQ+ person, at best, confused and, at worst, complaining about "queer" being misappropriated.

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23 hours ago, Mark said:

What is this "aro stuff" you thinking of?
Some links would help.
If it's from an ace site then it's most likely to aroace in nature. Since the target audience of such sites are asexual people.

 

"aro stuff" would be like what is aromantism and what isn't aromantism. You don't need links for that. Again: It won't have anything to do with asexuality. Also, I like using memes to explain stuff, but I would most likely make most of them myself -- as I already do. And I distinguish that by saying stuff like you don't need to be asexual in order to be aromantic and many aros can still have relationships without romantic intimacy.

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23 hours ago, Morgenfluss said:

"aro stuff" would be like what is aromantism and what isn't aromantism. You don't need links for that. Again: It won't have anything to do with asexuality. 

If it originates from an asexual site it will have everything to do with asexuality. Due to having been written by asexual people for asexual people.
Please read up on intersectionality. Because it's essential for understanding here.

 

23 hours ago, Morgenfluss said:

Also, I like using memes to explain stuff, but I would most likely make most of them myself -- as I already do. And I distinguish that by saying stuff like you don't need to be asexual in order to be aromantic and many aros can still have relationships without romantic intimacy.

Existing aro ace material already has these kind of #notallaros disclaimers.
Which doesn't help because these memes, articles, etc mean little to other aros.

The experiences of cis aro lesbians, trans aro lesbians, cis aro gays, trans aro gays, cis aro bis & trans aro bis differ even from each other. As well as differing markedly from those of aro aces.

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17 hours ago, Mark said:

If it originates from an asexual site it will have everything to do with asexuality. Due to having been written by asexual people for asexual people.
Please read up on intersectionality. Because it's essential for understanding here.

im not sure what would originate from an asexual site, what are you imagining?

 

On 2/17/2020 at 7:27 PM, Morgenfluss said:

you don't need to be asexual in order to be aromantic and many aros can still have relationships without romantic intimacy.

i appreciate that you're doing it so much! it's great that people can see that aromanticism exists in the first place. i think a better way of wording it would be "aromantic people can have any sexual orientation, i.e. bi-, a-, heterosexual, or may not have sexual orientation" bc then it doesn't bring the reader's attention to asexuality and doesn't suggest that the reader should be especially connecting the two; and "many aros can have relationships of various nature (with emotional and/or sexual components) without romantic intimacy" bc it explicitly spells out the connection to sexuality too

 

I agree that sometimes debunking myths on a platform where it's possible that people come without having heard of those myths, can make them appear in their heads in the first place

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21 hours ago, Mark said:

If it originates from an asexual site it will have everything to do with asexuality. Due to having been written by asexual people for asexual people.
Please read up on intersectionality. Because it's essential for understanding here.

Im am confused. If there is no link and doesn't come from any website as @Morgenfluss said, how can it come from an asexual website? 😕

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1 hour ago, nonmerci said:

Im am confused. If there is no link and doesn't come from any website as @Morgenfluss said, how can it come from an asexual website? 😕

I think that the idea is that if it originates from an asexual website, then it was written from an asexual viewpoint, and will have asexual biases and assumptions... 

 

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On 2/19/2020 at 11:56 AM, bydontost said:

im not sure what would originate from an asexual site, what are you imagining?

It is stated here.

On 2/13/2020 at 4:53 PM, Morgenfluss said:

it's easier to find aromantic stuff on Ace sites,

However they seem unable/unwilling to provide links to the "stuff" in question.

 

On 2/19/2020 at 11:56 AM, bydontost said:

i appreciate that you're doing it so much! it's great that people can see that aromanticism exists in the first place. i think a better way of wording it would be "aromantic people can have any sexual orientation, i.e. bi-, a-, heterosexual, or may not have sexual orientation"

This kind kind of thing is more likely to work as a prefix, rather than a suffix.

 

On 2/19/2020 at 11:56 AM, bydontost said:

bc then it doesn't bring the reader's attention to asexuality and doesn't suggest that the reader should be especially connecting the two;

How that work when the rest of the resource mentions asexuality? e.g. identifying the author as "ace" or being on/from an ace website.
(This can also happen implicitly through describing things which are common amongst aces than non-aces or omitting things which are more common amongst non-aces than aces.)

 

On 2/19/2020 at 11:56 AM, bydontost said:

I agree that sometimes debunking myths on a platform where it's possible that people come without having heard of those myths, can make them appear in their heads in the first place

I think a big part of the aro and ace conflation myth is the idea that aro ace experiences of aromanticism are somehow typical or baseline.
This is also something I'd expect perioriented people to struggle to recognise and understand as being a problem.

 

On 2/19/2020 at 4:13 PM, nonmerci said:

Im am confused. If there is no link and doesn't come from any website as @Morgenfluss said, how can it come from an asexual website? 😕

They have claimed both

On 2/13/2020 at 4:53 PM, Morgenfluss said:

aromantic stuff on Ace sites

and

On 2/17/2020 at 6:27 PM, Morgenfluss said:

You don't need links for that.

 

On 2/19/2020 at 5:43 PM, LBMango said:

I think that the idea is that if it originates from an asexual website, then it was written from an asexual viewpoint, and will have asexual biases and assumptions... 

This is exactly the issue.
With those kind of biases and assumptions (which may be implicit) continuing to be part of the resource even if it is copied elsewhere.
This is also likely to happen with resources authored by aro aces, regardless of where they were first published.
 

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15 hours ago, Mark said:
On 2/19/2020 at 12:56 PM, bydontost said:

im not sure what would originate from an asexual site, what are you imagining?

It is stated here.

I still don't understand. @Morgenfluss talks about adding information about aromanticism to general lgbt sites as far as I understand, bc the information isn't there yet, as opposed to ace sites, where it's usually mentioned? At least that's how I understood that.  @Morgenflusson 

 

15 hours ago, Mark said:

This kind kind of thing is more likely to work as a prefix, rather than a suffix.

What?? You mean... beginning the whole introduction with that, or you mean the "bi-, a-, homosexual" thing specifically??

 

15 hours ago, Mark said:

How that work when the rest of the resource mentions asexuality? e.g. identifying the author as "ace" or being on/from an ace website.

Uh I thought we're talking about adding info on aromanticism to general lgbt websites. And as for credit, if an author who's aro and ace steps up to do it, well, i guess no one who's allo aro has??

 

15 hours ago, Mark said:

I think a big part of the aro and ace conflation myth is the idea that aro ace experiences of aromanticism are somehow typical or baseline.

Can you give an example of exclusively aroace experience that is thought of as a baseline for all aros?

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On 1/23/2020 at 11:29 PM, bydontost said:

Honestly what you can do is check out your local queer orgs and see if they're trying to say something about identities beyond the LGBT, like even intersex people, nonbinary identities, aces. If they're in touch with what's happening in the wider world (and they should be), they could be including identities like those. And then it's my expectation that they'll also accept aros :) As far as AUREA can provide some legitimacy and official contact, regular aros getting involved is invaluable too!

 

On 2/13/2020 at 8:53 AM, Morgenfluss said:

Personally I'm on a few LGBTQ+ sites and always try to include aromantism, but that's often difficult to make visible because of arophobia.

...

Therefore it's easier to find aromantic stuff on Ace sites, since aces face similar problems and because of aros and aces often getting tied together. I do plan to do some more aro information stuff on LGBTQ+ sites, but I don't expect anything to come from it.

 

If there were more aros on such sites, we would be getting more visibility and acceptance, I guess, but since there aren't many aros on such sites, many aros don't want to join, unless it ties in with another part of their identity.

 

I just wanted to generally agree with both of these responses - right now, the best way to increase acceptance of aromanticism in LGBTQ+ communities (or in any communities, for that matter) is for aro individuals to start by getting actively involved in those communities - not just in advocating for aromanticism or seeking support as an aro person, but also in generally supporting those communities' missions as a whole, whether that's by attending meetings to learn about other identities under the umbrella, organizing a social event like a potluck or movie night, donating time or money to causes they support, etc.

In general, groups are likely to be much more open to taking in new knowledge from people they already know and trust - and the best way to gain that trust is to show that you are invested in supporting the wider LGBTQ+ community just as much as you hope that they will in turn invest in supporting other aros like you. It also gives you time to learn what approach might work best for that group, especially since LGBTQ+ groups can vary so much in their attitudes and approaches to learning about new things - often to a much greater extent than when working with aro or ace communities, which are unusual in their level of centralization (which comes in part from being smaller, and in part from arising in a post-internet age).

While new aro organizations like AUREA can help by creating vetted materials like FAQs, Brochures, and Presentations for other aro activists to use, actual activism works best when there is also direct support from local volunteers who are already embedded in potential ally communities who can serve as a bridge to make that connection.

Once you've built that trust, the next step is to finding something that you can use as a sort of "launching off point" to turn the conversation to aromanticism - ASAW is a great event for that, but if you don't want to wait all the way until 2021, you could also look for any new interesting news articles that come out, or maybe a thoughtful piece of writing from an aro blog, an interview from an org like AUREA, or a new video about aromanticism - basically, you want a hook that can tell people why they should be interested now, so timely things like annual events or newly published media can work well there.

From there, you could try sharing the link to start a new discussion thread (for online activism), or by reaching out to organizers to see iif you can schedule an event (for ASAW next year, for example), or seeing if it would be ok to drop a link to an aro piece into their next newsletter, or for you to bring it up in announcements in an upcoming meeting, etc.

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Also, regarding making handouts and other materials that might be more relevant to non-asexual communities - while I think I understand the main point (that it would be good to showcase a wider variety of non-ace aromantic people, experiences, and relationship), I would be very, very careful about how that is phrased - for example, I would avoid the use of the word "lust" at any cost. "Lust" as a term still carries strong connotations of Christian sin, and since LGBT communities are often targeted and harassed for being "sinners", that kind of language is just likely to stab at some major hurts for a lot of people and will likely not go over well. 

I would also be careful about the implication that LGBTQ people can't relate to discussions of friendship or platonic relationships - setting aside the fact that many LGBTQ spaces these days have active ace members who you might also want to target as potential allies, LGBTQ people in genera have long faced accusations that they are incapable of being true friends because of the myth that all queer people are just predators who are incapable of being "just friends" and will secretly just want to target you for sex. While I don't think that was the implication intended, it evokes similar themes enough that we should be careful about how we discuss that. (For example, suggesting instead that we add more examples of the experiences of aromantic folks and their sexual desires and relationships - especially stories from LGBTQ-identified aros - is perfectly fine. Let's just be careful about not implying that the reason for that is that we think LGBTQ folks are incapable of understanding anything else, because that's really underestimating LGBTQ communities and their own histories of exploring various types of non-romantic and non-sexual relationships)

-


Also, on the topic of whether aro ace speakers are going to be "relatable" to various audiences....I wouldn't worry as much about that, because frankly, no one is going to be 100% relatable to everyone, so any aro activist is going to face that problem on some level: whether they are straight, bi, lesbian, gay, male, female, nonbinary, cis or trans, young or old, white or a person of color, disabled or abled, everyone is going to experience some kind of intersection that will make their experiences different from their audiences. But frankly, the whole point of most LGBTQ communities is to be able to build coalitions across identities, and to find shared solidarity even with people whose  identities and intersections you don't personally understand or relate to. Intersectionality is all the more reason to uplift the voices of people who face intersecting experiences of oppressions, whether it's aro aces, lgbtq+ aros, aros of color, disabled aros, or other experiences that audiences may not have encountered before.

So basically, while it is definitely still important to try and present a wide array of aro experiences, it doesn't matter as much who is doing the presenting.

Also, at this point aro is activism is so new that it's not even a matter of choosing between sending in asexual aro activist vs. allosexual activists (or even folks who fall elsewhere on the spectrum) - it's a matter of choosing between the few volunteers who are already available and willing to do the job, or sending no one at all - and in most cases, having at least someone willing to put in the work and link back to the voices of others is far better than doing nothing at all.

 

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On 2/18/2020 at 7:39 PM, Mark said:

If it originates from an asexual site it will have everything to do with asexuality. Due to having been written by asexual people for asexual people.
Please read up on intersectionality. Because it's essential for understanding here.

It does not originate from any ace sites.

On 2/19/2020 at 12:56 PM, bydontost said:

i appreciate that you're doing it so much! it's great that people can see that aromanticism exists in the first place. i think a better way of wording it would be "aromantic people can have any sexual orientation, i.e. bi-, a-, heterosexual, or may not have sexual orientation" bc then it doesn't bring the reader's attention to asexuality and doesn't suggest that the reader should be especially connecting the two; and "many aros can have relationships of various nature (with emotional and/or sexual components) without romantic intimacy" bc it explicitly spells out the connection to sexuality too

Thanks! I'll be sure to do that!

On 2/20/2020 at 10:35 PM, Mark said:

It is stated here.

It's not.

On 2/20/2020 at 10:35 PM, Mark said:

However they seem unable/unwilling to provide links to the "stuff" in question.

Because there aren't any. As I've already said several times.

On 2/21/2020 at 1:59 PM, bydontost said:

I still don't understand. @Morgenfluss talks about adding information about aromanticism to general lgbt sites as far as I understand, bc the information isn't there yet, as opposed to ace sites, where it's usually mentioned? At least that's how I understood that

That's exactly what I'm talking about. Thanks!

On 2/21/2020 at 1:59 PM, bydontost said:

Uh I thought we're talking about adding info on aromanticism to general lgbt websites. And as for credit, if an author who's aro and ace steps up to do it, well, i guess no one who's allo aro has??

Exactly!!!

 

in short: either you start doing the same thing as what I'm doing @Mark or please stop complaining and misunderstanding my posts. Thank you very much! From now on, I won't reply to you anymore, since I'm just repeating myself.

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On 2/21/2020 at 12:59 PM, bydontost said:

What?? You mean... beginning the whole introduction with that, or you mean the "bi-, a-, homosexual" thing specifically??

Something like "This was written by an aro ace. YMMV especially if you are an aro of a different sexual orientation" at the start. Rather than "not all aros are ace".

 

On 2/21/2020 at 12:59 PM, bydontost said:

Uh I thought we're talking about adding info on aromanticism to general lgbt websites. And as for credit, if an author who's aro and ace steps up to do it, well, i guess no one who's allo aro has??

Does this mean creating resources specifically for LGBT sites or  "cut and paste" of existing resources? These could look, very, different in terms of both content and style.

 

On 2/21/2020 at 12:59 PM, bydontost said:

Can you give an example of exclusively aroace experience that is thought of as a baseline for all aros?

The omission of relationships based around sexual attraction from articles on Non-romantic relationships.
Over focus on platonic, including squishes and QPRs, would be rather indicative of a lack of aro allo perspective.
Ditto for erasure of other non-romantic and non-platonic attractions.

 

18 hours ago, Morgenfluss said:

It does not originate from any ace sites.

Also

On 2/13/2020 at 4:53 PM, Morgenfluss said:

it's easier to find aromantic stuff on Ace sites

Which is why I asked for some examples of the "stuff" in question.
What is it and where does it originate from?

I'll stick with my assertion material on an ace site is likely to have an ace bias. Ditto for material with an ace author.

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@Mark It feels like you're having a different conversation than everyone else? Like, I don't think what you're saying is incorrect or disagreed upon, it's just... not a relevant reply to anything you're actually quoting.

 

Like, I don't understand why you keep asking for examples of aro content on ace sites or keep putting "stuff" in quotation marks.

 

This thread is about aro inclusion and aro information in general lgbt+/queer spaces, so "stuff" would refer to anything you'd like to see about aromanticism: its definition, discussions of amatonormativity, how it interacts with other attractions/attraction components, how it interacts with other identities, aro-specific terminology that's been created, deconstructing anti-aromantic sentiments, etc.

 

There is something we clearly agree on: you're more likely to hear about aromanticism and get to participate in aromantic discussions in asexual-focused spaces. Which makes sense because for a long time, aromantic was a subset of asexual until we grew into our own community with a more defined sense of self and distinct separation of identity.

 

If you want examples of aromanticism being more visible in ace-focused spaces, go browse the tumblr fuckyeahasexual. It's an ace-focused blog, but they do talk about aromanticism and I believe a couple of mods also identify as aro. Or, of course, AVEN, which has a whole "Romantic and Aromantic Orientations" section. The asexual wiki even has its own page dedicated to defining aromantic and various aromantic identities. Compare those to, say, GLSEN. Searching "aromantic" on their site brings up three posts. I only checked one, but in that one, it defines aphobia/acephobia as discrimination against asexual and/or aromantic people, but then doesn't include the term arophobia, doesn't even define aromantic, or mention aromanticism at any other point in the article. And searching aromantic on HRC's site brings up zero results. (On the other hand, PFLAG does actually define aromanticism as its own thing, which was cool to find out!)

 

I'm also not sure why advocating for aro visibility in general lgbt+/queer spaces would mean just copy'pastaing content from ace-focused sites, nor do I see anyone actually suggesting that be what we do. Whoever provides the information will be the one providing the information. If you're advocating for aro content to be included in [x] space, you'd probably want to a) discuss and define what you want on your own terms, and b) provide resources they can use to learn more if at all possible (which thanks to the great folks behind AUREA will be a lot easier to provide an aro-focused resource perspective on aromantic resources). But also, we shouldn't discredit valuable aromantic resources and information just because they originated on an ace-focused site (since again, shared history).

 

I agree that there are a lot of assumptions people new to the terminology may confuse about aromanticism and asexuality and the two can be conflated... but I think in recent discussions about this, we've forgotten that there is a lot of overlap between aromantic and asexual experiences and issues and our two communities and histories are not 100% clearly separated and unique. Like, I've seen aros get mad that aces call Will Jay's "Never Been in Love" an ace song, but they're doing that because they also relate to the song. I'm caedro, so I wasn't always aro, but for a long time, I suppressed and denied my romantic attraction because I had no idea about asexuality, aromanticism, or the split attraction model but I knew I was different from my peers and so I felt my feelings were somehow fake or made-up because I didn't know what they meant. If I'd heard Never Been in Love back then or even right after discovering my asexuality, I would have related to the song very strongly just because of my asexuality. A lot of aces also struggle with feeling like they somehow love "wrong" or in a "broken" or "incorrect" way due to their asexuality and living in an amatonormative coercive heterosexual society in a similar way to how many aros are impacted by amatonormativity and dehumanization as a result.

 

Perhaps it's just tumblr, but non-ace aro voices have become way louder and more visible in recent months, which I think/hope is a good indication of a more balanced aromantic community where more diverse experiences are talked about. (Although by balance I do mean balance - aroace voices also have a place in our community, but I won't deny that we've been centered in the community thus far.)

 

Anyway, to get back to the original topic, I agree that I'd love to see aromanticism become more visible and well-known and not just as a subset of asexuality. I actually do think this is happening (AUREA's creation and everyone's work during ASAW in particular is a really good sign imo) - we just have to remember that it takes time and keep speaking up where we can and supporting those who are advocating and working for more visibility.

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2 hours ago, pressAtoQUEER said:

 

If you want examples of aromanticism being more visible in ace-focused spaces, go browse the tumblr fuckyeahasexual. It's an ace-focused blog, but they do talk about aromanticism and I believe a couple of mods also identify as aro.

 

I know you mean well, but the irony here is that FYA actually is strongly disliked by many aros for having posted a lot of subtly arophobic content. It's not just a matter of aces acknowledging that aros exist; They need to be careful to do so in ways that are respectful towards us, especially allo aros. So while I do agree that Mark seems to be... Getting a little lost, FYA is actually a great example of the point they were getting at- That content from primarily ace-centered sources is likely to be skewed in a certain manner that can be unhelpful or even outright harmful to aros.

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7 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

 

I know you mean well, but the irony here is that FYA actually is strongly disliked by many aros for having posted a lot of subtly arophobic content. It's not just a matter of aces acknowledging that aros exist; They need to be careful to do so in ways that are respectful towards us, especially allo aros. So while I do agree that Mark seems to be... Getting a little lost, FYA is actually a great example of the point they were getting at- That content from primarily ace-centered sources is likely to be skewed in a certain manner that can be unhelpful or even outright harmful to aros.

 

I actually don't think that's ironic or that it goes against the point, and I am aware of the criticism of fyeahace. I wasn't disagreeing that aro-content in ace-spaces is going to have an ace-perspective, nor did I say it was universally appreciated representation. That was simply an example of aro-content being easier to find in ace-spaces, not an example of the kind of aro-content people might want in general lgbt+/queer spaces (as I got at in the paragraph after the one you quoted).

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1 hour ago, pressAtoQUEER said:

 

I actually don't think that's ironic or that it goes against the point, and I am aware of the criticism of fyeahace. I wasn't disagreeing that aro-content in ace-spaces is going to have an ace-perspective, nor did I say it was universally appreciated representation. That was simply an example of aro-content being easier to find in ace-spaces, not an example of the kind of aro-content people might want in general lgbt+/queer spaces (as I got at in the paragraph after the one you quoted).


Then... What was your point? I’m not saying this to be rude, I’m just genuinely confused as to why you brought it up. No one is saying ace sites don’t mention aros ever, and that’s not the point of this thread, so I’m a little confused as to its relevance. (And, as an allo aro, I’m quite tired of seeing arophobic ace spaces get praised for doing the bare minimum, ngl.)

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On 2/28/2020 at 1:08 PM, Mark said:

Does this mean creating resources specifically for LGBT sites or  "cut and paste" of existing resources?

My original idea was to create contents specifically for LGBT sites. That may just be me thinking this was common sense, but if there is any aro in these places they are more likely to identify as bi, gay, lesbian, etc than ace... so create content that actually adress the experience of being aro while not being ace was just logical to me.

 

Also, there is other things that concerned all aros. Like the Wikipedia page about LGBT symbol who present a lot of flag,  including the ace flag, but the aro one (there is not even an aromantic article or at least I don't find it; if you google "Aromantic wikipedia", the first response is... the article about asexuality;  I'd like to write one but right now I don't feel legitimate to write an article on a site where I never write anything).

 

There is still a lot of things to do, but my original idea was indeed to create aro content, not link to ace websites...

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8 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:


Then... What was your point? I’m not saying this to be rude, I’m just genuinely confused as to why you brought it up.

 

Ask @Mark, the user whose post I was responding to. They're the one who asked for proof of aro "stuff" on ace sites several times now.

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On 2/28/2020 at 1:08 PM, Mark said:

Something like "This was written by an aro ace. YMMV especially if you are an aro of a different sexual orientation" at the start. Rather than "not all aros are ace".

 

Does this mean creating resources specifically for LGBT sites or  "cut and paste" of existing resources? These could look, very, different in terms of both content and style.

 

The omission of relationships based around sexual attraction from articles on Non-romantic relationships.
Over focus on platonic, including squishes and QPRs, would be rather indicative of a lack of aro allo perspective.
Ditto for erasure of other non-romantic and non-platonic attractions.

 

Also

Which is why I asked for some examples of the "stuff" in question.
What is it and where does it originate from?

I'll stick with my assertion material on an ace site is likely to have an ace bias. Ditto for material with an ace author.

Cool, I actually understand more about what you meant now. I don't agree that general descriptions of aromanticism should be prefaced with "an aro ace person wrote this", and even between one aro ace person and another, the mileage may vary. I'm thinking just of general "aromanticism is a romantic orientation that means x, y, z" style information, not "i'm aromantic and this is my story". I've seen allo aros say that they thought romance is sex and friendship, so maybe this could be a narrative we could mention in basic introductions too.

 

I know we have a different definition of platonic too - I was surprised to learn, as allo aro, that platonic also can mean "non sexual", bc I always used it to mean "non-romantic, can be sexual". It's sth that requires a clarification in any case.

 

On 2/29/2020 at 5:03 AM, pressAtoQUEER said:

If you want examples of aromanticism being more visible in ace-focused spaces, go browse the tumblr fuckyeahasexual. It's an ace-focused blog, but they do talk about aromanticism and I believe a couple of mods also identify as aro.

I know this is just an example of the fact that ace spaces mention aromanticism more often,

but I have to second  , bc my experience with fyeahasexual is mostly one of frustration at the innacurate info (see: when they said asaw changed the name from aro awareness week to arospec awareness week last year) or ace centrism (see: "don't force yasmin benoit to say she's aro too"). I feel AVEN is doing better in this regard.

 

On 2/29/2020 at 5:03 AM, pressAtoQUEER said:

Anyway, to get back to the original topic, I agree that I'd love to see aromanticism become more visible and well-known and not just as a subset of asexuality. I actually do think this is happening (AUREA's creation and everyone's work during ASAW in particular is a really good sign imo) - we just have to remember that it takes time and keep speaking up where we can and supporting those who are advocating and working for more visibility.

I'm quite hopeful about this too!

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Just popping in with a couple of sidenotes:

 

1) Kinda disappointing to see FYA named here, since I'm unimpressed with them too, for additional reasons entirely separate from the aro angle. As an alternative, I'd have named The Asexual Agenda as an ace-focused blog that might be a more productive example here and that deserves more recognition. Not trying to sidetrack the conversation though, so I'll leave it at that.

 

2) More on-topic, maybe.... Dunno how germane this is, but for those of you invested in the academic side of things:

 

If queer theory counts as a "LGBT place," and if you'd like to see aromanticism introduced explicitly into queer theory scholarship, you might be interested to read about some existing perspectives on romance in queer theory. Short version: while "romance" isn't really a key word in the field, I'd say queer theory is overall pretty friendly and supportive of nonromantic sexual relationships, which could be a promising start for introducing more of an explicitly aromantic perspective.

 

....Granted I figure this thread is more about in-person community centers and activist orgs and such, but putting that out there just in case.

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