NullVector

Hah. I do wonder though to what extent 'allos' also agree with this sentiment, but are just more easiy cowed by societal expectations than we might be? Random aside: I've always been (pathologically!) stubborn/uncompromising when it came to bending to popular pressures (it got me into some trouble early on at high school; until people figured out that I would stand up for myself physically and so left me alone...) But actually, bending to popular pressure does make a certain amount of sense to me. I suppose if you were in a tightly-knit tribal group (i.e. most humans for most of human history) then a degree of social ostracisation might be the difference between life and death. It's not so relevant now, but could go some way towards explaining the degree of conformity to societal expectations a lot of people seem to display? (as in: conformity has a sizeable survival advantage vs. my own idiosyncratic non-conformity?)

I know you're joking a bit here, but actually, gift buying in general is something that has always made feel me a bit uncomfortable. I knda feel here like I'm being emotionally blackmailed by society and/or coproprate advertising into expressing the 'worth' a personal relationship along narrow, market oriented lines. Being encoured toward commodifying human emotional sentiments. It almost feels like an act of sacrilige or idol worship (says the atheist, lol). I don't want to express my feelings towards somebody with a card, or a ring, or whatever. It's totally inadequate and kind of insulting and infuriating to feel manipulated into that (plus it's kind of saying: express your feelings towards this person by feeding the consumerist machine that's killing your planet - this is the only legitimate and generally socially acceptable way of doing so) I wonder if that's just me or something other aros or aro-specs can relate to? Probably I'm over-reacting

@Ice Queen 100 posts, nice work! . Here, have a contextually appropriate cookie: @Nai Here's one for you too, lol:

Today is the day you die I wish that the UN's 2030 Sustainable Development Goals are met ten years ahead of schedule.

@SoulWolf 200th post ^ Woop woop

Having this one word "Love" is super unhelpful, IMO. The Ancient Greeks were much more sensible about it. Philia, Storge, Agape, Eros. There I guess you could actually be reasonably clear about what you meant when you said "I love you". A bit like this popular notion that the Inuit have a bunch of different words for "snow". I think this also accounts for a fair amount of my resistance. I really don't like the idea of telling people lies - and ambiguously communicated intent is almost as bad. When I say "I love you" what do I actually mean? Outside of a lot of context, it's pretty meaningless - even then, there's scope to have what I'm meaning by it misconstrued by the other person. Kind of like when people tell you that they believe in God. Well, it generally takes a long follow-up conversation to tease out what they actually mean by that - and afterwards, you may still not really be sure you've understood one another. I'm fine with telling someone that I: like them, enjoy their company, would miss them if they weren't around, get a lot out of our conversations, want the best for them, their happiness is important to me, they have made me a better person, etc. But that I love them? Nah, I don't like it. It just feels somehow inauthenitc. As if you've just given me some phrase in Urdu to repeat back to you, where I have literally no idea what it means ("saying strange things" as @DeltaV put it). Also, there is often an emotional intensity, rawness and invasiveness coming along for the ride when people start talking about "love" that generally makes me uncomfortable. As if you're touching an open wound, like in this scene*. *Plus I don't really like what Karen Allen says there about caring more for someone else than you do for yourself - I don't think that's a secure basis for love. The Buddha had an interesting take on this, incidentally:

YES! THIS! I always felt this real resistance to saying "I love you" and couldn't figure it out (this was long before I read about the split-attraction model or anything like it).

That's actually pretty funny, considering what Sting said about that song

Yeah, I get that. I read your other thread about it too I (probably) don't want kids either; but for reasons having nothing to do with my being (probably) aro. I think it's not inherently toxic though - it depends on your romantic/sexual 'metabolism'. Like how oxygen is toxic to some microorganisms. Perhaps aros living in today's world are a bit like the poor anaerobes after the photosynthesisers came along?!

Aw, that's rough. Here's an ehug . Is that partly to do with the culture in Romania? I don't know what it's like there - is there a lot of emphasis on marriage and having a family?

Well, again, what's your definition of 'free will' here? From the context, it seems to be something along the lines of: I made a descision but I'm not sure why I made that particular one. But maybe calling that a "free" decision is a bit of an abuse of language - ignorance of external causes determining your actions doesn't imply the lack of such causes. Spinoza says something like this in The Ethics:

Also, Timon & Pumbaa's lament at the end of "Can you feel the love tonight" - that they are going to lose their friend to a romantic relationship - is something that a lot of aros can probably identify with.

@sarcastic kitten Lol. Needs more bagpipes tho:

You, sir, have very good taste Thanks! I was actually speculating in this thread a while back that he might be 'one of us' I liked the song you posted - despite having no idea what they are singing about! Maybe you can shed some light on it? Otherwise, I guess I should go ahead and learn French! Anyway, it's interesing to hear a rap song where the 'beat' is piano driven... I'm kinda running out of French song ideas now (you have the home advantage ) so I guess I can just go ahead and post an old classic:

@sarcastic kitten Does this count? It has French lyrics Leonard Cohen is my God

I think we might be the only ones playing But sure. Kavinsky, he's French

I'm a heterosexual guy. And my ring fingers are quite noticably longer that my index fingers on both hands (probably by around 1cm) Theory proven, case closed

@sarcastic kitten Nice! And I like what they do with it around 2 minutes in. From now on, we shall only post French songs

I used to be pretty touch averse. But after a fair amount of 'exposure therapy' (from one friend in particualr, lol) I quite like hugs/cuddles now. The idea of kissing still weirds me out a lot (I reckon its due to its assumed 'romantic' connotations - unlike hugging, it's generally seen as something reserved for romantic partners - and is portrayed that way in a lot of popular media. Also, for some reason it makes me think of this ) But hey, hopefully that could follow a similar pattern to the hugging? Naaah - it's everyone else 'out there' that's strange You're new here, but you'll soon learn!

Here's a few more: Waiting For The Miracle (Leonard Cohen) After The Goldrush (Neil Young) How To Disappear Completely (Radiohead) Undo (Bjork) Ameila (Joni Mitchell) It's Alright Ma (Bob Dylan) Running Up That Hill (Kate Bush) Hazey Jane I (Nick Drake) Ribs (Lorde) If Children Were Wishes (Wye Oak) Skin (Grimes - thanks go to @DeltaV for introducing me to Grimes on these very forums! ) Bankrupt On Selling (Modest Mouse) The Desparate Kindom of Love (PJ Harvey)

This song means a lot to me. <emotional outpourings> </emotional outpourings> @LunarSeas I approve of your song choices ?

I did actually read a fair bit on Myers-Briggs a few years back, when I first stumbled upon a few of the online tests (I got INTP on them as well) - and it was the cognitive function stuff that was the most interesting to me. For example, if we consider introverted vs. extrovered thinking processes: the way I often experience conversations is that I'm still thinking how I should structure my reply to what was just said - meanwhile the conversation has already jumped ahead another 16 new topics! Introverts (like me) would tend to do their thinking in their heads and then vocalise a finished 'output' (I'm thinking of Paul Dirac here, for example: "I was taught at school that you should never start a sentence without knowing the end of it." - well, that is a very 'introvert' way to look at conversing!) Introverted thinkers might not 'show their working', so sometimes their final vocalised thought isn't easy for other people to follow without some additional elaboration. Whereas extroverted thinkers would tend to 'think out loud' and submit any intermediary steps to the group for feedback, so as to arrive at a more finished and coherent final thought by a kind of process of consensus (maybe - bear in mind I'm not an extrovert - but at least some extroverted friends have told me that they do something like this) Or, say, the perceiving/judging function - I think of this a bit like 'collapsing the wave-function' in quantum mechanics, lol. Just how much data do you need to take in before you can make a final decision one way or the other? With me, the default answer tends to be "a lot!" I'm paranoid about jumping to an incorrect conclusion before all the facts are in, so I'm extremely indecisive - even in terms of really trivial matters like picking a restaurant to eat in, for example! (much safer to defer that decision to somebody else so that I can't be blamed for any catastrophic outcomes ) The good side of it is that any important life decisions I make tend to be quite well thought through (well, assuming I'm able to actually make the decision one way or the other, despite myself! ) I still think it has its potential problems as a properly 'scientific' theory. I mean, telling an interesting internally consistent "story" that seems to account for a fair amount of subjective psychological experience is one thing; but getting very specific and falsifiable predictions out of that same framework is something else again and I'm not sure how well Myers-Briggs cognitive functions theory succeeds here. I also worry about sentences like this one from the blog you posted : I don't really know what that sentence means. What is the "you" that is being referred to in this context of doing the overriding? Movements of the Pineal Gland, perhaps? I have never anywhere seen a definition of "free will" that I could make any sense out of, so I'm not sure what business it has in outlining a properly 'scientific' theory of cognitive processes... My views on Myers-Briggs overall as a system/framework are probably similar to those @James posted earlier in this thread:

@Ice Queen Totally agree with everything you said about dating! I've never done it myself (I'm not really comfortable with the concept and I just don't think it would work for me - for the reasons you said). I tried to make new friends instead (with that potentially leading to something sexual - or not). I think somebody should make a 'dating' app that lets you 'date' as friendship groups. So, your group of friends meets up with another group of friends and goes out on a 'date' together. I think that would get rid of a lot of the assumptions, expectations and games that seem to exist around conventional dating. And it would be less pressure than a one-on-one situation (then maybe if you get to know someone well in that context you might want to see them one-on-one as well - but since you already know each other fairly well by now, there won't be all sorts of pre-assumed nonsense!)

I always saw it as romantic rather than sexual. I think probably due to the trope in so many romantic movies about that 'magical first kiss' that 'changes everything between us'. I think for that reason the idea of kissing has always weirded me out a bit and triggered a degree of romance repulsion/anxiety in me. Um, yeah, now you mention it, always really wanted to try this The idea of it appeals to me way more than kissing does! (and doesn't trigger any repulsion/anxiety ; quite the opposite, actually!)