NullVector

Hmm. Romantic interactions in general seem to involve a lot of this subtext. This makes it a real challenge if you're seeking something akin to a sexual friendship, when: Romantic interactions are seen as the exclusive gateway to any sort of sexual relationship Subtext is seen as an important and necessary aspect of romantic interactions. You personally aren't very good at reading into (or broadcasting) 'subtext' in the context of interpersonal interactions anyway. The social consensus is, apparently, that there is a hard dichotomy between 'Platonic' friendships on the one hand and romantic, sexual relationships on the other (with strictly no intermingling of components from either side of the dichotomy). It's a trap! I could try an activity like dating (would that be incredibly dishonest? Is 'aromantic dating' an oxymoron?) but then 2 and 3 would probably bite me in the ass, as dating is 'romantic', right? (well, I could try communicating my extremely non-normative expectations subtextually, given that that's the expected interaction dynamic here, but how the hell would that even work? y'know, given that people cannot read one another's minds... doesn't 'subtext' here tend to just imply 'default to socially normative behavior'?). Then again, I could try an alternative route through the morass; make friends with the aim of it developing into a sexual friendship. But then 4 will probably screw that up instead.

And, why not, let's add a few cherry-picked song lyrics to support my case And then leaning on your window sillHe'll say one day you caused his willTo weaken with your love and warmth and shelterAnd then taking from his walletAn old schedule of trains, he'll sayI told you when I came I was a strangerI told you when I came I was a strangerI told you when I came I was a strangerI told you when I came I was a stranger [Stranger Song] And then you got away, didn't you babe? You just turned your back on the crowd You got away, I never once heard you say I need you, I don't need you I need you, I don't need you And all of that jiving around I don't mean to suggest that I loved you the best I can't keep track of each fallen robin I remember you well in the Chelsea Hotel That's all, I don't even think of you that often [Chelsea Hotel #2] I did my best, it wasn't muchI couldn't feel, so I tried to touch [Hallelujah] Ah baby, let's get married, we've been alone too long. Let's be alone together. Let's see if we're that strong. Yeah let's do something crazy, something absolutely wrong while we're waiting for the miracle, for the miracle to come. [Waiting For The Miracle] Steer your heart, precious heart Past the women whom you bought Year by year Month by month Day by day Thought by thought [Steer Your Way] Everybody wants a box of chocolatesAnd a long-stem roseEverybody knows [Everybody Knows]

Any Leonard Cohen fans here? I was speculating that he may have had some aromantic tendencies/attitudes. I made a whole new thread for it, but then @Holmbo pointed out that this thread already existed. So, um, apologies for the duplication of content, but... Watch and draw your own conclusions I also found this interview where he is directly confronted with "a difficult question" and the response is... interesting...

I guess for me, I experience the "pure lust" forms of sexual attraction as being like a kind of hunger. It's a raw, animalistic, frenetic energy, whereby seeing a body shape that those more primitive parts of my brain categorize as desirable triggers a kind of magnetic pull of intention towards that body and a sub-verbal feeling that, were you able to articulate it verbally, would just sound something like "want" (as in, picture if you hadn't eaten for several days and then some sort of warm and delicious food was placed in front of you; you'd experience an immediate, involuntary and bodily sense of want-ing that food. The experience of raw sexual desire a.k.a. "pure lust" feels somewhat like that to me. So, nothing intellectual going on there whatsoever, lol. My neocortex is probably not coming along for the ride But then, like @LunarSeas wrote further up, you can get to know a person and the more "cerebral" forms of attraction she mentioned become entangled with the "pure lust" forms and it all get extremely convoluted and confusing! I've also experienced cases where I wasn't really sexually attracted to a person initially (or else it was borderline) but then the person said or did something(s) I found interesting and after that I noticed an attraction developing. Another interesting question would be how these experiences differ for male vs. female sexual aros, or with male vs. female hormones cascading around in your body systems. I remember now I was watching some documentary years ago where one of the female researchers was saying that she (it might have been accidentally) took some testosterone and that the effects were very noticeable! And her comment was that it made her more sympathetic to the way the teenage boys she remembered from her schooldays had behaved . Because she experienced it as a very powerful urge to, ahem, engage in certain behaviors! In Iain Banks' sci fi novels, it's common for the characters to spend years at a time in bodies of the opposite gender to the body they were born with and I was thinking that that must give you an interesting insight into the opposite gender's experiences. It would probably make you a better lover, for instance! I was reminded of all that by @LJ_84's comment: So (and only answer if you don't mind me asking, as it's pretty personal!) did you experience that as a purely quantitative difference; or was there a qualitative difference there as well?

So much relatable stuff on this thread! To answer OP's question, I guess at various points I've thought I was: broken socially retarded (despite my never really having problems making and maintaining friendships...) emotionally immature too 'picky' too proud/aloof/smart for anyone else (yeah, I know! especially that last one ) a coward Well, maybe I still think some of the above I'm still figuring this thing out after all... I'm wondering if this is something anyone else has done: inventing bullshit rationalizations for why you could never pursue a romantic relationship with somebody? (y'know, when it seemed like it might be an actual possibility) As is: well, I like this person, they are single, but there is REASON X which means it would be a VERY BAD IDEA. And at the time, REASON X seemed like an oh-so-logical reason, highlighting some fundamental incompatibility between us that could just never be bridged. But, looking back now with 20/20 hindsight, it was actually something incredibly trivial! Anybody else ever been 'played' like that by their own subconscious?!

Cool thread! Reading through all this has motivated me to pull a few different people's thoughts together and offer up my own perspective. Male heterosexual & suspected aro-spec-something-or-other here! I think the negative stereotypes @Cassiopeia mentioned re. the types of relationships @LunarSeas and @cute kitty Meow! Mewo! mention above are very real. I'm thinking recently that maybe what I'd find desirable is some form of sexual-close-friendship type of relationship (friendship++ if you like), but one where the sex is seen as an expression of the friendship (rather then the 'friendship' being seen as secondary to the sex, or as a kind of 'ruse' to get it - which is a negative stereotype often applied to heterosexual men, perhaps). And I'd want us to have established trust and some level of deeper emotional intimacy beforehand. But I wouldn't want all the assumptions of a 'package deal' that go along with any longer term sexual relationship (i.e. one where you actually feel strong bonds of companionship with the other person and care about their happiness, as opposed to something more 'disposable'). Assumptions like (as others have mentioned): if we're having sex then we should also be living together. If we're living together, we should also be sharing a bedroom together. Etc. (as in: why should the person you're living with, sleeping with, best friends with, raising kids with, etc, all have to be the same person? Isn't that a lot to expect from just one relationship? If it works for you, then great, but surely there should be other options as well...) It strikes me that the paragraph above is basically invisible as a choice for a relationship archetype within this society. I hadn't occurred to me until recently (reading stuff on here, etc.) that it was even an option to choose a relationship along the lines I've just outlined. Probably why I've subconsciously avoided pursuing relationships to a very large extent! This 'amatonormativity' thing makes it essentially all-or-nothing - you either get to choose the entire 'package deal' of absolutely everything with one person (sex, your closest friendship, co-habitation, childrearing, etc.) or, in the case where you want the sex, but not necessarily one or more of the other things with the one person, you can choose sex where the other person and the relationship surrounding the sex is seen as largely disposable and/or unimportant to you. If you're female and choose the latter option you'll be stereotyped as a "slut" and, if you're male, as a "player" (eww! as a hetero guy I would not see this as at all complimentary, it would actually make me very uncomfortable!). And in both cases you'll be seen as "immature". How to ask for what I think I actually want, in a social context where it is largely invisible and there seem to be few if any positive role models to emulate, feels like a fucking minefield right now. One I have little idea how to even begin navigating