nisse

conflating aroness and aceness is infuriating and just plain wrong, but i think the idea is the sharing an experience of not having an attraction many people deem inherently human. i wish alloaces wouldn't do this thing, because i genuinely believe there's sense in aspec as a community of aros, aces, and all the other folks in-between. the lack of an attraction is what we have in common, like. i gotta say, i don't understand HOW alloaces conflate us?? like... ye KNOW asexual =/= aromantic, that was a whole slogan at some point - not in as many words, but same sentiment. and especially the person OP is talking about, with the insistence even after you've told them? what's the cognitive dissonance here.

that sounds extremely tiresome omg

yessss oh my god.... how can they not realise the difference between giving up a job because you've never been happy in it, and giving up a job FOR another person?? kinda similarly, i saw a show recently where one person said to their significant other "you've given up so much for me, it's time for me to sacrifice something for you" (i think it was about moving cities and giving up careers/moving away from family or smth?) and i was kinda baffled like damn, y'all sacrifice your dreams for each other in a kind of equal exchange system? no compromising or talking stuff out beforehand??

you were talking about movie characters before though, not real people.

i do very much hahaha, i have QUITE the long list of these kinda movies and books :') i did recently listen to P&P on audiobook though, and it's really good! Austen was such a good writer, it's amazing how her little pokes at and observation of a society from 200 years ago is still relatable and funny. I heartily recommend the film. Most folks who are fans of the book first prefer the BBC series, but as a former film student, the film is better. the BBC series is more faithful, to be sure, but the film is better at humanising people who lived in the 18th c, and it is incredibly well made. They've mashed up some characters, cut others, and switched the roles of some, but that's just the nature of adapting a story into a film. The show had more time, so they could be more faithful in the adaption (it's very good! i don't want to bash on it, because it's not bad at all. but i saw it once and was happy with that, while the film i can rewatch over and over). SERIOUSLY hahahaha figuring out some big stuff about myself ALWAYS makes me look back at younger me and go oooooooh i see.

omg welcome!! i'm so glad you've figured yourself out a bit more, isn't it an amazing feeling? i'm not allosexual, but holy shit (almost) same hat! i never actually had crushes, but they were so the norm to chat about and everyone expected everyone else to have, or have had, a crush, i just made them up and assumed that's what everyone else did too. and i always picked a boy too, because yayy heteronormativitiy... Honestly, when i realised that most people DON'T actually just pick whoever is kinda nice and cool and declare them their crush, i found it incredibly funny. i rage about amatonormativitiy a lot, but to me this bit is just hilarious. i just made them up!! like wow @ self :'D BIG same!! I remember looking over my characters and realising oh.... these are all aro huh. not all of them are ace, but the aroness just shone through. i've actively tried making non-aro characters since, but the protags of my stories are almost always aro, or just disinterested in romance. some other things i realised! i LOVE romance stories. i don't read or watch a lot of them though, because i have very particular tastes. mostly romcoms are boring, but there are a couple i adore. Pride and Prejudice (2005) is among my top 3 films. Four Weddings and a Funeral is high up there, but i find Hugh Grant's character and love plotline incredibly boring lol. i think like you, i value a deep connection and platonic relationship more than the pure romance stuff of it. Pride and Prejudice I adore because 1) it's just a marvel of a film, from a craft standpoint, and 2) no insta love!! (and 3) that HAND TOUCHING SCENE). the idea of romance really appeals to me, but i'm very happy for it to remain an idea. kinda like folks who love horror but obviously would never want a horror story to happen irl* a tiny gremlin in my head doesn't believe in romantic attraction. like at all. a slightly more sensible gremlin, but still a gremlin, thinks a lot of the more dramatic points of romantic love is vastly exaggerated, and people half fake, half believe it because it's so entrenched in culture. i try not to say this out loud in allo spaces because it's a little too close to invalidation for my tastes - i don't know people's inner lives anymore than they know mine. but there's still a gremlin there and honestly i kinda wish i could have philosophical convos about this with my allo friends, without them potentially becoming upset and defensive (and like, i wouldn't blame them for it if they did) (THIS READS MORE SAD THAN I MEANT IT TO LMAO). i love being by myself! not like all the time, but living alone, having my own time, not sharing my whole life with someone. for a bit i tried really hard to find a QPR, before i realised i was using it as a replacement for a romantic relationship, and i would be about as happy in a QPR as in a romantic one (which is, not at all). and being at peace and happy with being by myself for the foreseeable future is so nice! *(not to compare romantic attraction to horror, oh dear)

@Oatpunk there are two wolves inside of me.... they're both grown men and they're yelling

@Jot-Aro Kujo and this is why the "asexuals aren't broken, we feel/fall in love" line chafes SO MUCH. it may not be in use anymore, i honestly don't know, but it definitely was when i figured myself out around 2011/2012/2013 (i am extremely bad at remembering years and what happened when, but i was ~15 when i started having inklings), and that isn't that long ago. i really wish there was a bigger push for aromantic awareness within the ace community, considering how big it is and the reach it has now, with AVEN and all. we really do need the reach and influence they have, if we want to be visible to kids (and adults!) in the situation you were in.

Yes, I mean who amongst us hasn't heard - in real life or in media - "how do you know when you're in love?" -> "you just know!" like gee thanks! very cool & unhelpful! i wouldn't be surprised if there are quite a few aromantic people just waiting to fall in love, bc they'll know (realising falling in love and romantic attraction isn't necessarily mutually inclusive, but it illustrates this a bit i think). i've a feeling, too, that it is in a way easier for aces to figure out if we're aro as well or not. hence, i think, the over-representation of aroaces within aro communities @Mark mentions. i wouldn't be surprised if it's substantially harder to nail your aroness when you're allo-sexual, and maybe even feel even more "broken" (HEAVY quotation marks) than us aroaces. just because i think when you've figured out aceness, you've kind of passed that hurdle - not to say we don't have that internal struggle as well, i know i had a MUCH harder time accepting my aroness than my aceness, which is partly why i identify so much more with that part of me now, it took so much energy from me. but i hope my thought process here makes sense? i don't want to speak over aro-allos here, and no experience is uniform, but i wouldn't be surprised if this was the case for many.

oh no I think you're being very clear on why you want another term, and I completely understand why! and when it comes to flags, nothing can please 100% of people. I know several bi folks who finds solace in the flag*, but doesn't particularly vibe with it aesthetically. i love all the creativity surrounding folks making flags, i'm always blown away by the thoughts put into them. i think as long as new ones aren't being made for the wrong reasons i welcome any iteration of an aroace flag, same with terminology! and i wouldn't be surprised if this evolves, and aroace becomes obsolete. in which case i'll be an Elder Queer(TM) who uses the old terms, and loves all the young aroaces finding their own way and words ? *the Bi flag, that is!

welcome!! in my experience this is a very sweet and chill forum ?

that makes so much sense haha idk why i didn't think of this ? oh same, i'm not really bothered by people not immediately knowing or recognizing the blue-orange one - for me personally i'll prob use the aro one for recognition, i'm just not big on how it looks. this is like, pure aesthetic senses. i'm not big on green hahaha. the blue-orange one speaks to my tastes, and i love the reasoning for the colours, though i get what @Magni says with it not being recognizable as related to aro&ace. although (and this is a COMPLETE detraction from the original topic, apologies!) i kinda wish we didn't feel like we had to go for the vertical stripes in every pride flag. I get that then it's recognziable as a pride flag, but I wish we felt freer to be more creative lol. like the purple circle on yellow of intersex, or the Labrys flag and the many iterations of it. or even the triangle of the demi flag! i mean, we already have the arrow as a sort of symbol. arrows and spades....? i'm not a graphic designer, i'm always impressed by people who come up with any kind of flag

Same here!! I kinda love it ngl, it's also pretty self-explanatory (as long as the person knows what aro and ace means), which is a big plus for me personally. This is also why i love the orange-blue aroace flag that's going around - it's one for us who view it as one whole orientation. AFAIK some folks view their own as separated (i believe they've been referred to as oriented aro/ace?), which is a valid stance, so it's kinda neat to have a flag just for us! and since folks who don't view it as one whole orientation usually use aro/ace or similar, it works well in my mind ?

Honestly, I think it's in large part because romantic love is seen as intrinsically human. Do you remember how a big part of ace activism was convincing others that they (as in, allo-aces) weren't unfeeling robots because they can still fall in love? And I don't think this is intentional on their behalf, at the very least not in those "early" days (when asexuality became more widely known, thanks to the internet). A lot of humanity and the definition of being human and the human experience revolves around romantic love, in my experience. Finding "the one" to spend your life with, romantic love as a powerful feeling in stories, all these dating apps and pressure to find someone. I think a lot of people can wrap their mind around not feeling sexual attraction, but they cannot even begin to imagine living without romantic attraction. i said this in another post on here as well (i think my introduction post?) and i've found that this is true for lot of aroaces! it's very fascinating, and worth discussing - for funsies, between us aroaces, not as a ~discourse~thing, lol.

this is a very good point! i have some scribbles of conversations between them about aromanticism in general, but i really should have something about aromanticism as related to being allo. thank you! your whole response is very helpful, i'm taking notes ? tysm!! i'm very excited for it, it's fun so far!

I would encourage you to look up QPR/QPP! Queer-Platonic Relationship/Partner. Sounds very close to what you want I'm sure loads of folks on here has good insight into that!

don't worry about late replies!! forum response time is very different from social media response time god, these people. in many ways, (allo-allo)bis should understand the struggle more than anyone else? i saw a great post about that years ago, from an allo-bisexual man. he remarked on how a lot of the exclusionist/anti-aspec stuff he had read reminded him very much of biphobic arguments. i don't remember the specifics unfortunately, but if i find it i'll link you! i totally understand being too taken aback to be able to really understand what's being said! i really hope you get it through to them somehow, or at least that they'll understand how weird they're being.

@aro_elise thank you! all of these responses are so great, i feel like i'm getting a better understanding of aro-allos and the unique challenges ye face. i'm still developing this, and i'm under no deadline except what arbitrary ones i might set for myself, so it's a way off yet. i'll be sure to hit you up if i have more questions!

No I get it! So cutting ties is not viable, but they aren't close friends. But you kinda need to get along with them, because they are in your life regardless. Jeez. I get doubly why you're frustrated now. I think the best I have to offer is 2 things, if they start this up again: If they're monosexual, ask if they've experimented with other genders (especially if they're straight; gay folks often have, in my experience.) If they haven't, well. How can they *know* they're hetero/homosexual, y'know? If you'd rather not take that route, or if it fails (they have experimented/they want to) they need to understand that their line of questioning is invasive, invalidating, and infantilising (that's a lot of in- words!! whoops). It's not their role to get you to "understand yourself" better or whatever. They're being incredibly annoying and invasive (I genuinely can't get past this invasiveness - they're not even close friends of yours?? why are they so invested in this!) and they kinda need to back off. It's not their business!! It harms no one, even if you had been emotionally numb. I would normally want to harp on this, because it's an annoying stereotype, especially of aros, but these two seem like a lost cause. Damn, dude. I'm kinda stuck on this, and kinda really frustrated at them myself lol. I hope you get some kind of resolution, I wouldn't wish this on anyone

i haven't had a look through to see if anyone has mentioned her, but i've always headcanoned Miranda Barlow from Black Sails as aro-bi! ETA: How could i forget the OG Varric Tethras from Dragon Age!!

just read through it there @emmafriendly, very well written as always!!

I've been thinking about this lately. I'm very comfortable in being aro, and sometimes even relieved - both bc i'm not that confused "WHAT AM I??" teenager i used to be anymore, and because sometimes there is seemingly a lot of drama for allo-romantics. But i don't think i've ever felt grateful for it? I started thinking about it because i've seen various other people with different labels be grateful for their identity. Autistic people (which i realise isn't a label in the same way sexuality is, but it illustrates my point) being grateful for how they view/experience the world differently, queer people in general grateful for their amazing various communities that they've gained. And that's another thing, I am grateful for my queerness. I identify as wholly queer, and I love it, and I'm grateful for how much more joyful and diverse the world is for me as a queer person. Me being aro.... I'm grateful for the community, not necessarily the identity. My aceness is irrelevant, like many aroaces on here i don't really think about that bit much lol. I've typed the word "grateful" so many times now I'm starting to forget what it actually means lol. I hope my point comes across ok?? Maybe happy would be a better word. Do you feel happy for your aroness? idk if this makes any sense lmao sorry folks

@stas heteronormativity strikes again!! it sucks big time, bc it's not like anyone says out loud that i seem really flirty, but i'm SUPER anxious that i come across as such, and i just wanna hug 'em! love a good hug, me. i've just come to a point where i can say "i love you" and it will be taken purely platonically with a male friend, bc we're very much each other's ~ queer friends ~ , which feels super nice. bleh. heteronormativity PLUS a big dose of amatonormativity makes for one anxious aromantic huh

Welcome!! we're glad to have you this one is difficult, for sure. if you value their friendship, or for some other reason there is no way to cut ties, i'd say the best you can do is be firm with them that they need to respect that you know your own inner life. they can't dictate that you "just need to experiment", that you don't know yourself, that it's just a phase of "emotional numbness" (wow, that one is new ?) you can offer to educate them if they're open to it; send them some literature (lots can be said about AVEN, but they have done a lot of activism and have a lot of stuff on asexuality at least). i had a bisexual friend who had a difficult time conceptualising aro-ness especially. now, i'm lucky with her: she's very open minded, she just couldn't wrap her mind around it. i asked her if a tiny part of her had a hard time fully believing monosexual people are fully monosexual (i.e. homo/heterosexual), she did. she doesn't say it out loud, bc she doesn't want to invalidate ppl naturally, but it's still there. i explained it's the same with me and allos, but i still accept it bc obviously it kinda has to exist. so while she maybe doesn't 100% get it, she does accept it now, which is all i ask for me personally. idk if this helps really. it sounds like the people you mention are very unwilling to believe that you can know yourself well enough to know this about yourself, which sounds.... not good? i don't know them, of course. it's never fun, anyhow, and you have my sympathies ?

oh big same. i love being touchy feely with friends, but that's a huge anxiety point. especially as someone who's AFAB and not at all out as n-b, i'm anxious to do that with male/more masculine presenting friends, because of heteronormativity. it's good you have an understanding with your friends at least! but yes, i feel you big time on that whole. pressure? anxiety? whatever it should be called