Do gender advantages influence your gender expression

[Ikarus]

First off what do I mean by gender advantages? Well It’s what you probably think but I will give an example.

I like wearing traditionally feminine clothes as an amab, the color pink, and tried acting more (some would say girly / having interest in things girls are usually interested in.) 

In public life though I find it more convenient to present my gender expression as traditionally masculine. I don’t like the way women are treated by men mostly for dressing cute/pretty, being even a little feminine would give me unwanted attention. 
 

For others gender advantages could be an added bonus for a non-binary afab androgynous looking woman to dress in suits and talk with a deeper voice, or even act more masculine. 
 

Here’s An added bonus for appearing/ expressing yourself more femininely. You can express your feelings more without appearing weak or being called names if your a man. 

There are more advantages and disadvantages but I think that gender advantages definitely influences peoples gender expression and the clothes we wear to some degree. 
 

How do gender advantages influence your expression? Can gender advantages play a considerable role in gender expression? 
 

Id love to know your thoughts.

[Jot-Aro Kujo]

Man I just dress like this cause I think it's cool as fuck lol I ain't strategizing anything. I just like skirts

[The Gray Warlock]

I think it all depends on "how" you wear it. I have a pretty plain t-shirt and jeans style. Now if I could pull it off, I'd like to be able to rock some of David Bowie's looks. No one did it like him!

[Deltalorian]

My fashion is literally just whatever clean in my wardrobe right now, and I daren't think too deeply about my gender and gender expression, as I simply do not have the energy to deal with a potential gender crisis right now.

[Nix]

No not really. I wear a lot of green and blue, plus pretty much all my t-shirts and sweaters have an illustrated print (either designed by myself or an artist online) This works well in my regular work enviroment as young children love it. Whenever I have to talk to officials for my work as an artist I usually throw on a nice jacket or a blouse. I don’t wear traditionally feminine clothing or make-up, but I have never felt like that it was affecting how people treat me. I guess they think ‘oh, she is an artist’ and just roll with it.

[Neon]

At night, I do my best to come off more as a guy for safety reasons. But other than that, I don’t think so.

[DeltaAro]

Gender 3D chess? What you describe sounds like how gender theoretically should work, if it had any internal logic. But how it does not actually work.

You must live in a very strange place, where many Anime gender tropes have become real. 😉

Edited July 4, 2022 by DeltaV

[Ikarus]

Anime tropes? The only anime I’ve ever watched was one punch man a long time ago. What are these anime tropes though because as far as I know they also may exist outside anime? 

7 hours ago, DeltaV said:

Gender 3D chess? What you describe sounds like how gender theoretically should work, if it had any internal logic. But how it does not actually work.

 

Well @DeltaVLets say a non cis person realizes a connection between certain clothes or a stereotypical personality trait. This connection is other peoples typical reaction to it. Perhaps they don’t want to risk being treated a certain way for acting / dressing that way in a specific context or in public. 

Then these non cis people play a little 3D chess. I don’t see why (how gender should work vs how it really works) should invalidate the 3D chess. What do you mean by emphasizing this idea vs reality thing? 

The non-cis person is simply going meta on gender and typical reactions. The non cis person can simply dig the clothes without feeling a strong gender connection with them. They can change their voice or personality for environments that could be either awkward or dangerous to act that way.

Example: A guy crying for instance may feel more comfortable expressing it with his woman friends than his bros. There’s a variety of situations where people can play 3D chess.

By the way im not trying to debate bro you, I just want to learn something new from your point of view. 

 

[DeltaAro]

17 hours ago, Ikarus said:

Anime tropes? The only anime I’ve ever watched was one punch man a long time ago. What are these anime tropes though because as far as I know they also may exist outside anime? 

For example, in anime it's more permitted for "femboys" (I hope that word is ok) to express their feelings and also exhibit other stereotypical female characteristics beyond their looks, like being "weak" (in the sense of lacking combat prowess).

E. g. Felix "Ferris" Argyle from Re:Zero – Starting Life in Another World looks/acts very feminine and cute, never uses male pronouns or the name "Felix", and serves as a personal knight, but is not very impressive with their sword. Instead they're one of the greatest healers of the kingdom.

19 hours ago, Ikarus said:

What do you mean by emphasizing this idea vs reality thing? 

Gender is usually regarded as a self-identity.

But it is only the gender as assumed by others that has social consequences. If some dude thinks Miley Cyrus and Cara Delevingne are hot, this doesn't trigger any deep soul-searching in him: "Am I really straight?"

Because though the gender (self-id) is NOT "female" for those two, the ASSUMED gender is.

So if a non-binary person is assumed to be / regarded as male and therefore held in contempt for expressing their feelings, trying to appear more feminine will likely not make the situation better.

Now even if you are some kind of human chameleon (like the famous Callidus assassins from Warhammer 40K) and can change your gender expression very convincingly, i. e. the assumed gender is always how YOU chose it, people are still going to remember you! And this strongly restricts the potentials of this gender 3D chess.

[Ikarus]

@DeltaV I remember seeing that character from the thanks my name is Felix meme.
 

That situation in the vid demonstrates your point. Dude assumed the cosplayer who dressed femininely was female, then Felix spoke. Classic… Although this encounter could have triggered some deep soul searching, am I really straight?!?haha..

 

5 hours ago, DeltaV said:

 

So if a non-binary person is assumed to be / regarded as male and therefore held in contempt for expressing their feelings, trying to appear more feminine will likely not make the situation better.

 

You can’t have your cake and eat it to. Although if the non-binary person expressed themselves as male at work  and while in public without expecting or needing emotional support or not interested in knowing their fellow employees well in those situations then they could benefit I suppose. 
 

If the non-binary never invited others from work or from their local restaurant into their private life then I don’t see a problem with the whole “your being a girly man” thing
 

It can be very easy to avoid people knowing you well these days unless you post your whole life on Facebook/ Twitter every day. In my opinion at least I don’t find the 3D chess game as a mostly restrictive strategy for some peoples lives and needs.

This is just one situation, there are many situations but the one I described seems like it could happen for a lot of people.

If we where living in a small town in the 1800s without so many people, workers at jobs, short distances. Everyone could know people a lot easier.

Weird idea, what if I dressed androgynous, expressed myself with an androgynous personality/ voice. Assuming I also looked androgynous with my face and body, never dressed this way yet.

Any gender advantages with being super androgynous? Would I be treated half male half female? How would society treat someone who is full on androgynous?

I think people would think, are u man or woman, what’s between your legs. Beyond that though Idk. Would people allow androgynous people to express their feelings? Apparently androgyne is a androgynous type gender identity as well hmmm. 
 

 

Edited July 5, 2022 by Ikarus

[dewy]

I'm trans and I don't really play this gender 3d chess. Usually I dress more traditionally masc/androgynous but sometimes I dress fem simply because I want to. If people see me as a girl, fuck it, not like I don't get that all the time already (I'm not fully out). Really all I think about when I'm choosing clothes is if it's comfortable, looks nice, and matches :p

[DeltaAro]

17 hours ago, dewy said:

I'm trans and I don't really play this gender 3d chess.

I don't want to leave the impression that I'm against anyone trying such methods. I just found the whole idea a bit far fetched.

[dewy]

11 minutes ago, DeltaV said:

I don't want to leave the impression that I'm against anyone trying such methods. I just found the whole idea a bit far fetched.

Oh don't worry, I get you.

[DeltaAro]

23 hours ago, Ikarus said:

That situation in the vid demonstrates your point. Dude assumed the cosplayer who dressed femininely was female, then Felix spoke. Classic… Although this encounter could have triggered some deep soul searching, am I really straight?!?haha..

Didn't know this meme. Yeah, this Cosplayer just nails it. He looks so cute. 100% Felix. Except for one detail: Felix would NEVER say "I'm Felix". 😺

So it seems Felix is well-known beyond fans of the anime / manga. Is the same true for ... Astolfo?😉

23 hours ago, Ikarus said:

If the non-binary never invited others from work or from their local restaurant into their private life then I don’t see a problem with the whole “your being a girly man” thing
 

It can be very easy to avoid people knowing you well these days unless you post your whole life on Facebook/ Twitter every day. In my opinion at least I don’t find the 3D chess game as a mostly restrictive strategy for some peoples lives and needs.

At first it was Gender 3D Chess, now it's Gender Machiavelli... 🙃 if you can pull that off, all those machinations, more power to you. The people who hold those stereotypes had it coming. But I imagine it to be a bit... taxing.

And ... another point, which should be interpreted as a plain statement of fact and not as a moral judgement: many people want to be cared for or respected as the person they truly are.

For me, if I cannot open up to someone, because my gender expression is too masculine, then I personally would not want this person's "empathy". If I'm not respected, just because my gender expression is too feminine, then I do not care about this "respect". FO, done!

On 7/3/2022 at 10:56 AM, Deltalorian said:

My fashion is literally just whatever clean in my wardrobe right now, and I daren't think too deeply about my gender and gender expression, as I simply do not have the energy to deal with a potential gender crisis right now.

As a grumpy old agender person I see all the yang wans talking about stuff like "aesthetics", which I don't understand. I looked it up on Wiki and now I'm prepared to make a dad joke: Maybe your aesthetic is ... don't-care-core?

Edited July 6, 2022 by DeltaV

[dewy]

10 minutes ago, DeltaV said:

 As a grumpy old agender person I see all the yang wans talking about stuff like "aesthetics", which I don't understand. I looked it up on Wiki and now I'm prepared to make a dad joke: Maybe your aesthetic is ... don't-care-core?

I feel the same, my aesthetic is comfycore (which is probably actually a thing)

[Deltalorian]

3 hours ago, DeltaV said:

As a grumpy old agender person I see all the yang wans talking about stuff like "aesthetics", which I don't understand. I looked it up on Wiki and now I'm prepared to make a dad joke: Maybe your aesthetic is ... don't-care-core?

3 hours ago, dewy said:

I feel the same, my aesthetic is comfycore (which is probably actually a thing)

I don't think I really have an aesthetic, beyond just the colour green lol.