Gender

[Karst]

On 12/1/2019 at 8:06 AM, nonmerci said:

Sometimes I feel like there is more non-binary or trans people here, but maybe it's because I never met in real life (I think)? Sometimes I'm wondering if aromanticism or asexuality affect gender Identity. I Don't know, but I feel like some gender coded things are linked to seduction and gender-role in a couple Not everything, of course; but for instance, it seems for me that when it comes to clothes, a feminine style is often associated with seduction (like a boyfriend complaining because his girlfriend is not feminine enough, he thinks she doesn't seduce him without "feminine" clothes).

I think that more people are out as trans/NB on the internet than in real life, especially in queer-oriented spaces.  It's easier to express your identity in a space where you aren't going to be beaten up, lose your job, etc. over it.

Historically, there have been a fair number of cultures where long hair is/was considered masculine or gender-neutral aside from the ones already mentioned on this thread.  The Celtic and Germanic tribes of Iron Age Europe had warriors with long hair- here's an example where the hairstyle was actually preserved on a bog body (spoilered for human remains).

Spoiler

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Osterby_Man#Osterby_Head

Sikhs also don't cut their hair, but the prohibition applies to both men and women.

[mewix]

On 12/1/2019 at 1:06 PM, nonmerci said:

Sometimes I feel like there is more non-binary or trans people here, but maybe it's because I never met in real life (I think)? Sometimes I'm wondering if aromanticism or asexuality affect gender Identity. I Don't know, but I feel like some gender coded things are linked to seduction and gender-role in a couple Not everything, of course; but for instance, it seems for me that when it comes to clothes, a feminine style is often associated with seduction (like a boyfriend complaining because his girlfriend is not feminine enough, he thinks she doesn't seduce him without "feminine" clothes).

Yeah I noticed that.

Like even in the communities I am in with an overall greater number of lgbt in them and several who do identify as such (and not many straight people) here I still seem to see more people identifying as alternative identity. 

Or maybe it's more that those people are more exposed to that idea of it. There are people around who wouldn't label aromantic at all and who could theoretically fit into it. 

But yea a lot of gender coded things are linked to the whole romancing idea I think. Personally tho I wouldn't want anything to do with someone who complained just because I am not wearing the certain sort of clothes they want oof. I think some of that is just unrealistic expectations. You shouldn't have to dress or act a certain way that is not natural to you, if someone doesn't like you as an authentic person then there isn't much point. 

[Karst]

On 7/10/2020 at 8:25 PM, DeltaV said:

 

It would be interesting if there was a culture where women had shorter hair than men. I vaguely remember that Spartan men had all long hair, but the married women had short hair.

Actually, in traditional Maasai culture, men wear long hair and women have short hair.  It's done in order to resemble lions.

[Storm_leopardcat]

On 12/1/2019 at 6:06 PM, nonmerci said:

Anyway, I am a ciswoman, tough I am not a "feminine" woman. For instance I don't understand make-up at all.

I don't get make-up either.

On 10/3/2020 at 3:43 PM, 2 Spirit Cherokee Princess said:

Contrary to what is shown in movies made by the majority culture, chiefs were usually women.  After all, the oldest person in a village is expected to be the wisest, & women live longer than men...though pioneers often refused to talk to a Native woman (unless they wanted sex).  At a modern dance in a Native community you may see girls asking boys to dance rather than the other way around; that reflects a tradition where women were aggressive & men were the gatekeepers.  Pioneers were sometimes shocked to see women fistfighting; the sight of men in makeup was so offensive that they made up the term "war paint" to explain it.  Long hair for men is so important that court rulings have said that a Native Person can't be forced to cut his hair even in prison.

Fascinating stuff! I didn't know half the things here!
mosty, chiefs were women? Girls used to ask the boys to dance? women fistfighing? Women being more aggressive, and men being gatekeepers (what do you mean by gatekeepers here?)? 

Warpaint isn't an actual thing; it was simply make-up on men? huh!
Dang, long hair is that important for men, huh?

I would love to know more!

[The Gray Warlock]

Here's my two cents. All this talk of gender identities is just another way for human beings to do what human beings do best: make life way more complicated than it needs to be. If modern society was really as individualist as we like to think, there would be no need for categories to fit ourselves into. Not even gender ones. People would simply live their lives, thinking believing, and behaving as they see fit and best for them. But, because we are human beings with egos that want to make damn sure everyone believes what we do, and have an intellectual grasp on everything, we have to come up with all these complicated systems to pigeonhole people in artificial categories.

Now having said that, history and mythology provide some fascinating examples.

In Babylon, there is the well known practice of sacred prostitutes devoted to Ishtar. Turns out the majority of these devotees were physically male, and dressed as women, but were not regarded as male or female, but a third gender called "womb people."

In Ancient Egypt men and women alike wore cosmetics on a daily basis. It was a kind of religious practice imitating the faces of the gods, as it was believed facial features symbolized the creation of the cosmos. In fact the word "cosmetic" means "create the universe." Gives a different meaning to "makeup" doesn't it! Also, women of high status often wore false beards.

From pre-Christian Northern Europe there are records of the priests of Freyr dressing as women and celebrating with the dancing and ringing of bells. It's thought the goddess Nerthus was similarly worshipped. And of course there is the tale of Thor, the most quintessentially hyper-masculine of all deities, dressing like a bride to be married off to the giants as a ploy to infiltrate his enemies' camp and retrieve his stolen hammer. And there is at least one tale of none other than Odin disguising himself as an old woman.

In Hinduism there is a story where Vishnu changes into a woman, Mohini, as a way of helping Shiva (who also becomes female on occasion) to overcome a demon.

So, if nothing else, I say if gender fluidity is good enough for the gods, it's good enough for me!

[Alaska Native Manitou]

11 hours ago, Storm_leopardcat said:

I don't get make-up either.

Fascinating stuff! I didn't know half the things here!
mosty, chiefs were women? Girls used to ask the boys to dance? women fistfighing? Women being more aggressive, and men being gatekeepers (what do you mean by gatekeepers here?)? 

Warpaint isn't an actual thing; it was simply make-up on men? huh!
Dang, long hair is that important for men, huh?

I would love to know more!

Gatekeepers means the ones expected to exercise self-control. 

[Procrastinating]

On 11/26/2019 at 3:17 AM, BlueKumul said:

Not sure what all these terms are for. Human bodies come in two basic varieties, male and female. For personality and presentation, three terms seem helpful: masculine, feminine and androgynous. Everything else seems sort of scholastic.

There's actually quite a wide variation of gender expressions and how people experience gender. It makes a lot of sense to me that there are so many terms for gender.