The Newest Fabled Creature

Heya! So, I've been wanting to get a binder for a while now, but wasn't able to get one because I had yet to be able to get a job. Now that I have one, with some steady income, I was wanting to try to buy a binder either tonight or tomorrow, or in general the next few days.

The advice I was seeking, since I know the mandatory ways and time to wear a binder and what not to do in them, was from what website/organization I should buy them from? I know there's gc2b, but some people have warned against buying from them (or at least last year I heard a lot of trans folk saying that), since their quality supposedly went down, and has been prone to hurt people's chest, even when the buyer had made sure to get the right size. And then there's Underworks, which isn't heavily focused on transgender needs like gc2b, but still has chest binders.

The reason why I'm torn is because I don't know if maybe gc2b has upped their quality again as of late, and if Underworks (despite not being trans orientated) has good binders. Any advice from trans and cis people who have bought binders from either or, would be appreciated!

On 9/9/2023 at 1:44 PM, nonmerci said:

I think the alloro experience is more : chosing if you act on the feelings or not.

Now I don't talk enough about this stuff to know, but I have the story of a girl who told me trhat her boyfriend at the time had an appearance that she didn't look at all (she usually was into more conventionally attractive guys) and yet she was attracted to him. I guess she would not have chosen him if she could.

There is also a friend who told me that at first, she just wanted sex with the guy but then romantic feelings developped. I am also not sure that she would have chosen it if she could as it was not her initial intent. 

Also, heartbreak would be a lot more easier if people could just chose to not be in love anymore.

Thank you for sharing! And, yeah, I guess the alloro experience isn't as cut in dry as I originally thought. I also agree on what you said, where the only choice an alloro person may have is to act on said feelings.

Hello! So, I seen a topic related to this before, and have seen other fellow aros/aro-specs on here bring up how alloros never really have to try - they just do - with their romantic feelings (the same, I think, can be said for some aro-specs who can experience romantic attraction, but I digress), and it got me wondering just how true that can be?

I'm not trying to debate that that isn't true, I believe that alloros do just have their romantic feelings and can't really control it (hell, I had a conversation with my very alloro brother who confirmed he had crushes on strangers before, after knowing them only a tiny bit - mostly just the person's name), but despite knowing this - the reason why I bring it up, is because I had a conversation with my mom about aromantic people. The talk went as well as someone who doesn't know much about the community would go (she did make assumptions about certain people being aro, mainly just aromantic men *sigh*) and she doesn't know I myself am aro, but she said something really damning to me. Now, I'm not going to assume anything about my own mom in regarding her own romantic orientation, but she did say, "People choose who they have a crush on, or who they fall in love with, all the time!" And it looked pretty clear that she meant everyone when she said that and it looked like she very much believed what she was saying. But, we all know that not every single person chooses who they like.

And so, back to the topic at hand, I know by now that this forum can be limited in the experiences of alloros or romantic feelings, but does anyone have any examples of alloro people they know not being able to choose who they crushed on, or any aro-specs who have experienced romantic attraction who may be able to further explain this? Because, I did try to tell her that - no, people don't choose who they like romantically, or at least, not everyone does that - and she looked deeply confused and steadfast in her thoughts. I can't exactly explain further to her about how alloros can't control themselves, since I'm not exactly the right person to answer that, and it's not necessarily my responsibility to try to convince her otherwise, but I guess for future reference it be cool to know examples.

TLDR; Anyone have any examples of alloros not being able to choose who they crushed on, or any aro-specs who didn't choose who they crushed on? I just really want to know.

3 hours ago, Alysia said:

This presumption of the "normal" identities really irks me, and is so ingrained in my culture that even people who don't fall into society's defaults for identity presume them.

One trans person I know has recently got a new cousin and she used he/him pronouns for this 0 year old; I questioned her about how she would know this cousin's pronouns, and she said they were male sex, and they don't have a brain developed enough to know what identity is.

I mean, sure, maybe a baby isn't able to know what their identity is (though, that's just conjecture) but that is in no way a justification to force them into the little box that happens to be the one most statistically likely (the one where they are happy with he/him). What if they aren't happy with it, surely she knows that's possible?

My policy is that it's unknown until proven otherwise, not cis/allo/hetero/whatever until proven otherwise.

Sorry if I rambled, and for going off-topic.

No you didn't go off-topic, I completely get that and share the same sentiments. Yeah, things are unknown, but at the end of the day, when someone is old enough to understand identity then who they say they are must be treated with respect and believed - since, their identity may have been pre-existing, it's just they didn't have the language or words for it yet.

Someone has definitely said this already, but:

People believing you'll still fall in love, or would hold onto the hope you'll fall in love, despite explaining to them and even showing them how that won't be the case. Basically, false allyship.

Allonormativity is so ingrained into people, that coming out as aro to others who don't know about it, or barely grasp it, may say, "Okay, I understand, you just don't feel that way towards people," but would still hold onto this hope - this "inevitable" gotcha moment - that you'll still find someone and fall in love. Paying along with you essentially. And if someone who's aro ends up in a relationship of some sort, they wouldn't hear the end of it from these kinds of people. Hell, some aro/aro-spec people I know have heard their family members - family members who claimed to have "undying support" - say to them, "Why did you tell us if you were gonna end up being in a relationship anyway?" As if the aro person in question who chose to confide in them with such personal information, even with the possibility that maybe it wouldn't matter if they came out if they ended up in a relationship, was silly for doing that.

What also chaps my ass is the whole entire argument of, "Oh, a young person can't know if they're aro (or any queer identity ever) because they're a kid," while an allocishet kid is left alone, because that identity is so defaulted it's not questioned, at all. It's never questioned if Little Jimmy has a crush on Little Sarah. Like, if people are going to believe the whole entire, "Oh, it could be a phase!" or "Kids don't know that much about themselves!" then they need to apply that to straight cisgender kids, as well. Because there's many people who thought they were allosexual/alloromantic, or straight, or cisgender, for years, till they realized that they actually weren't; doesn't make their previous identity invalid, but people don't take these kinds of experiences into account at all; but oh, if someone identified as queer and either found out later that they weren't, or found that they were a different identity, then it's all "People are making it up" or "It's a phase" type shit.

I also find it incredibly creepy when a little girl and boy befriend each other, and their separate parents say something like, "Oh I can just see them married already 🥲" Um... excuse me? They're fucking three?!

I love these so much aaah  > <

A strong aro moment I tend to feel constantly, is like this psychological slap to the face whenever someone tries to ask me about my romantic life or if someone confides to me that they like me, or someone they know likes me.

It's a strange feeling. It feels like a part of me just shuts off tbh. I also feel it when people misgender me, too.

I read from someone else that being aromantic isn't necessarily an identity revolved around romance consumption, but it is an identity based on one's experience of romantic attraction and how one experiences, or views (or sometimes even how someone feels about) romantic relationships. It is a diverse human experience that someone can embody for any reason, a diverse human experience that is real and that is valid, and that someone who may have these experiences can state that is what they are, or not, because that's the power an individual has over identity. Same thing about asexuality, and if someone who is ace consumes media that has sex in it; the identity is based on experiences in both attraction and relationships, than media consumption.

Like, there's straight people who may like gay romances more than straight ones, and I have gay friends who tend to invest in straight romances more than queer ones, since said romances may come from a show, movie, game, or book that said friends really like. Both people in these scenarios are no less than who they are because of the media they consume.

And as an aroallo who loves romances, I may never experience romantic love ever, but seeing that that is a possibility for other human beings and seeing these amazing stories be crafted around the relationship of two or more people, is breathtaking to me; granted only if written well (^^'')

And I completely understand the romantic-relationship-candidate as pect; maybe not in the way you experience it, but I only really imagine myself in "romantic" relationships with fictional characters. And even then, I'm aro in my imaginations as well - so for the most part, I can't even imagine being in any relationship either for very long lol

22 hours ago, Ikarus said:

Allos just feel crushes they don’t have to put effort into making it happen. No lists of traits none of that.

Do or do not, there is no try.

Many important feelings and attractions or lack thereof happen outside the realm of conscious influence. 

I knew this already deep down, but I think I needed to see this still; and it reminds me of a conversation I had with my brother (who is very much alloromantic) about having crushes on strangers. I said something along the lines of, "I kind of get the feeling of crushes, since I've had intense grey emotions towards people. So, like, I'm almost able to undertsnad how it feels, but I don't get the "how" in having crushes that alloros have. Like... do you actually have crushes on complete strangers?"

My brother: "Uh, yeah, and it sucks -"

Me: "Wait, really? Like, you have a crush on them, even though you know nothing about them?"

My brother; "I mean... sometimes? I mean, for me, I could their name and you could know them a bit to call them a friend. But, like, yeah, I've had crushes like that. And it sucks."

Me:  * shocked pikachu face *

Hello! It can be hard accepting being aro, and especially aroallo, I went through similar stuff myself in that regard. You're not alone, and it's okay to not be okay with yourself after finding out.

Having autism is just an experience, truly.

So, like, I stim, not quite as much as I did as a kid, but it transitioned to different forms to be less obvious (like, as a kid I played with inanimate objects instead of my toys, but then that turned to me fiddling with things like pens now or walking back n' forth in a room). I also eye stim? If that's a thing? Like, I'll pin point something with my eyes, and I don't do it as much as I did as a kid, but I would just look at something for the general feeling of either spacing out or for the sensation of seeing something out of the corner of my eye. But, most of the time, and I don't think I make any face at all while doing so? -  I would just stare and that's it.

I get overstimulated a lot, and often seek out a something for just one of my senses to be overloaded with (Loud room? find something that smells good or listen to music louder than the loud thing. Something smells abominable? find a rough textured something to feel aggressively or find something really soft to rub my face into. Felt a texture that is despised? bite something or make aggressive grabby hands in the air for no reason).

Don't even get me started on the hyperfixations dear God

@alto Woah! I'll check it out!!

Also, write romance songs if you want! If I had any instrumental prowess to go along with my voice, I'd probably write songs about romance and such. Like, there would be songs about being aro and gender, but tbh there would probably be lot's of songs like "oh I saw a butterfly today :)" lmao

Realizing that I experienced alterous attraction towards friends of mine as a kid, I labeled these intense bubbly emotions as "crushes," since I had no other way of describing what these feelings were, and usually it did feel like I wanted to be really close with them but not once did I think of that in the romantic sense. And although plenty of times I may have wanted to be close with them platonically, I never really labeled it as platonic as well. I didn't think of it as... anything, relationship-wise, just that I wanted to be close, but not in any exact way. It was this grey area. Alterous.

Only one time do I remember clearly and consciously choosing a crush, and it was on some random boy in middle school on our basketball team, but I think for the most part me labeling my feelings as "crushes" might be the majority of me "choosing" to have a crush. Not choosing to experience my emotions, which I really only experienced strong alterous attraction on two people in my life, but choosing in labeling said feelings as crushes.

I mean, although I do feel this strong disconnect with alloro people stating how they're happy being single, but can still very well experience romantic attraction, my aro playlist has plenty of songs by alloro artists. Most of them are about the singer's complicated feelings about relationships (typically the heteronormative monogamous types), or is about the singer going on about their close bond with their friends, or even their friendships falling apart, or is even about them experiencing a different type of emotional attraction that isn't romantic.

It's not the same as aro artists descrivbing their experiences, like Cavetown, Donovan Funk, others I can't remember at the top of my head, or alloro people dedicating albums for us like Moses Sumney, or people we don't know for sure are aro or alloro making songs for us like MaJiKer; but some of these songs touched a part of how I experience being aro, and so I add them.

There isn't a lot of aro artists to go around, and so we make do with the broad experiences that people who are alloro also experience (though, sometimes I wonder if there is more aro-spec people, and so aro-spec music artists, than we think there is, but I digress).

I literally have no clue where this shirt comes from, and I may have already stated somewhere how much I want it, but this is literally my gender identity:

I need this shirt

29 minutes ago, HelloThere said:

Or worse, Ron DeSantis gets in. Ron has actively declared his war on “woke”. He’s playing to the furthest right masses, and he’s just so much more extreme than I could’ve imagined.

Oh God, yeah, I forgot. It's going to be a disaster during elections if we're not careful.

AAAAYE

I definitely have this feeling a lot; usually when I'm hyperfixating really hard on something (it's been that damn barbie cowboy game for over two months now (RDR2)).

But I usually feel more like wanting to be in the story or in the universe when it's a piece of media with fantasy elements or takes place in a completely fantastical world. The Wolf Among Us for example, is a game with lot's of fantasy elements. It has a comic series called Fables, where the fables escaped their homelands when it was crumbling/being invaded and ended up in the Mundy world (our world) which hasn't been too kind to them either, and that the fables have to hide their identities from. But basically, all of the fairy-tales and fable stories we were told of are real in this universe. But the game, TWAU, is mainly about the character Bigby Wolf, who was a villain in the Homelands because he's the Big Bad Wolf. He became a Detective/Sheriff in the Mundy world when he was pardoned for his past actions and you navigate the game still trying to earn other fables' trust; he also kind of wanted to redeem himself, so he wasn't just put into an authoritative role despite being a past villain.

The game also has this grittiness, sense of survival, and noir style that, I feel, makes the story more "real." It's a good example of "modern fantasy" imo and so when I hyperfixate on it I can't help but think about inhabiting that world.

23 hours ago, Synthetic Adrenaline said:

Especially as he had male friends but still considered himself extremely lonely. I know these were close friends because I heard clips of them casually singing together and producing harmonies. If you know who is the baritone and who is the tenor and you can just casually open your mouths and form a working male choir...you know each other pretty damn well. But society had shoved it down his throat that relationships were everything and his male friends were just chopped liver.

Yeah, it utterly sucks. I'm not saying that someone shouldn't have a romantic partner, but when it comes to these situations where they're afraid of being alone, or if they aren't alone (like how that guy has close friends) but are scared of experiencing any amount of loneliness, that's when they actually need to be alone via having no romantic partner, for a while. Because it just goes to show that they don't know what to do with themselves when alone and have become so dependent on another human being (unless it was a situation where a person had to be dependent, but in this scenario that's not the case).

4 minutes ago, Synthetic Adrenaline said:

In his case I think he had this unrealistic idea in his head that a relationship would magically solve his depression. And then when I didn't want a serious relationship that was too painful to accept. Oh no! His antidepressant was getting away from him!

Yeah, it's kind of horrible that people are taught that relationships and especially those of the romantic kind are meant to solve your unhappiness, or are the answer to ~everything~

Oh, you're constantly sad and don't know the exact cause? Go find a partner!

You don't know what to do now hobby-wise, or you have spent all of your energy on so many interests? Time to try dating :D

And maybe, sometimes, finding a partner can help someone, but the toxic ideology that someone else's mere existence is supposed to remedy everything "wrong" with you is so horrible.

1 hour ago, Synthetic Adrenaline said:

I was stone cold honest about not wanting anything serious and he still kept saying I love you and mentioning that he was going to move to my country. I think possibly he deluded himself that I'd change for him.

That sounds very concerning (him wanting to move to your country). And it could be that he did delusion himself into thinking that maybe you were playing "hard to get" or he had a "I can fix them" mentality; both equally infuriating ways of thinking when the person is dead serious.

I don't know if anyone here knows the music artist/screamer songwriter Stoj Snak, but one song I associate with aro-ness is "State of Mine." It's very good, has this feeling that reaches my soul. Some other songs I suggest aren't necessarily "aro feeling" to me but just good songs, is "Forgotten Phone" ( a song he submitted and had entered into a game where you find a lost phone and find out that the og owner was a trans girl), and "Fuck!" (which is basically a song he wrote for his support of the LGBTQ+ community. It is a song that says 'people should be able to sleep with whoever they want' and I know that those types of songs could be a turn off for some, which is understandable, but it's overall a catchy song).

5 hours ago, Synthetic Adrenaline said:

I had to have so many talks with him about not moving to my country. The crunch came was when he was trying to be mushy and saying I love you after sexting and I was privately exploding with frustration because I wanted to go play some rapid chess. He just kept talking and talking about his feelings and I got more and more annoyed and just thinking can I PLEASE go now? That was the reality check I couldn't ignore.

That certainly sounds frustrating. Especially so when you try to tell the other that you can't feel the same or don't want anything serious, but then they start liking you like that anyway. I know that alloros can't control that I guess, but at least know that that's when you may have to stop if feelings start forming still.

3 hours ago, Synthetic Adrenaline said:

Here we are. It's a series of songs I wrote to vent various turbulent emotions after I rejected someone. To cut a long story short...I wanted a bit of casual fun and he desperately wanted a serious relationship. I was honest with him many times but he escalated to saying I love you and talking about moving to be with me. NOPE. In hindsight I should have seen the signs but my lizard brain thought 'mmm deep voice and sharp cheekbones' and ignored the fact that he clearly wanted serious. I felt gloriously free afterwards but also very guilty for messing with someone's emotions.

 

https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLioSl7MsydvOmEPXzjSHAC-cVF4Us0A7E

Oh no, that sounds like a tricky and exhausting situation. Despite all of the maybes, I think you did the best you could to convey that you just didn't want that type of relationship and couldn't feel the same way. Thank you for the playlist too!