The Newest Fabled Creature

I feel like my depression and anxiety were getting better over time, but my physical health has taken a nose-dive in some departments, and so my depression and anxiety has been rearing their ugly heads. I found that it's really hard for me to keep up with communication between friends, I totally forewent any contact with extended family members at this point, and it's hard for me to do things I really enjoy like writing, singing, doing theater, wanting to join diverse organizations, etc. To be honest, I have no clue what was making my mental illnesses "easier" to cope with before, but I can only hope to learn to deal with it all over again with these new tribulations.

I guess reassurances that things will be okay would be nice. Or seeing people who went through the same physical things I'm going through right now tell me that I can still have a life of my own, that it can get better, and if it doesn't then there are ways for me to live comfortably still.

I would say to do research. Learn what and what not counts as flirtatious dialogue, while also keeping in mind that some places may give you outdated or cheesy dialogue, or may be biased in what counts as flirting - so try to look into different places about it. You could also ask allo people/friends about what counts as flirting!

Welcome AroAceGamer! I hope you enjoy your stay on the forum! It's not perfect, but it's a really cool place here!

To answer your questions: I basically found out that I was aromantic from asking myself 4-5 years ago, "Why haven't I had a crush in literal years?" And then when I started applying the aro label to myself (after needing a while to accept myself), I realized that my past "crushes" were actually meshes (an alterous attraction version of a crush), since I didn't want romantic relationships with the people I liked and felt dread at the prospect of them liking me back romantically; even if in fantasy I "wanted" them to like me like that.

I came out to friends first, then to my brother who's very much a "Live your life as you want dude 😎" kind of guy and ally. I was hesitant to come out to my sister, because although she's very much an ally to the queer community and finds bigotry of any kind fucking stupid, she did show hesitance in accepting polyamorous relationships as actual valid relationships, and so I was worried she would view QPRs the same way, and in causation, view aspec people in the same way. I came out to her via text rather than face-to-face (which was how I came out to my friends and brother) and she accepted me! I did tell her how I was worried about her possible non-acceptance, and she said that she was sorry for making me feel that way, and that to her, it makes sense for aromantic and asexual people to exist. I still haven't come out to my mom, though, who I can see accepting me for the fact that my mom is completely done with any romantic relationships and had even confided in me about two very aro things she said ("I think people choose who they fall in love with all the time!" and "I think I was only ever meant to have kids and no partner what so ever"), but she's also the kind of person to literally say things about how people can change who they are like 180 in five years 🙄

So, I don't know if this should've been placed in "Off Topic," but "Sexuality and Gender" also seemed like a good spot, but has anyone else who is trans (or trans-adjacent) been experiencing this? It's not that you can't talk about being trans around certain family members because it's "shameful," or something that shouldn't be talked about, or that it's something little kids "aren't supposed to know about" or "couldn't understand," but because you're afraid of your little family members accidentally outing you to other people? Living in a Southern State makes it kind of scary to talk about being trans, and it's not that there aren't plenty of trans people, or queer people in general, in the South (I've met quite a few middle-aged-to-elderly transfems at my retail job which is located in a very conservative small town, so huge amounts of respect to those girls), nor am I saying there aren't any accepting folk, but there's plenty of intolerance here, too. I live in Kentucky, and although recently we've been shown to be the most queerest State in the U.S. and we've made governor a trans/queer ally, there are a lot of people who have been supporting politicians that are very transphobic and anti-abortion around here. A transphobic law prohibiting trans kids for seeking out gender affirming healthcare had been passed quite a long while ago, against our current governor's wishes (Drag Queens and Kings have been prohibited from having any shows, and "any female or male impersonators" are to be reported, which includes trans people indefinitely in that statement).

But, I was wondering if anyone else has been going through this kind of experience, regardless if you're trans or not, where it's not necessarily you sharing your experience with your family being the problem or enlightening them about your communities, but instead outside people possibly finding out?

As what is stated above, you should tell them that it's making you uncomfortable. I understand the feeling, though it comes from my family members more often than not. My siblings know of my aromanticism, so if they "shipped" me with anyone it is obviously a joke and it's actually never with irl people but fictional characters I hyperfixate on. My mom doesn't know about me though, and will actively try to investigate my platonic relationships with guys and even girls sometimes.

It's nice to meet you Jerry!

Here's a few more just for fun:

Too Sweet and Someone New by Hozier

What Do You Want Me To Say? by Dismemberment Plan

I Don't Want a Nuclear Family by Sharp Shock

Girl Alone by Mother Mother

Waterloo Sunset by The Kinks

People Will Say We're In Love by The Oklahoma Musical Cast

I Won't Send Roses by The Mack & Mabel Musical, Jerry Herman and Robert Preston (a problematic musical, but I thought this song was so aro)

I Like Being A Bitch! by Trip Kissing

Weird Girl by Mommy Long Legs

Pretty much what @Sili said. I only ever been in one relationship and it was a QPR, but me and my previous partner didn't hold hands quite as much, we never kissed, and we didn't say many romantic things to each other, nor pet-names. Most of the time, it felt like I was treating them like I always treated them, which was in a friendly manner from having had a platonic relationship with them first. It did very much feel like I was acting, but I was also translating everything into a platonic outing rather than a date when me and them went out, so most of the time I felt relaxed, but despite that I would later find out I was non-partnering and ended the QPR shortly after.

The only thing that made my relationship different from other typical allo romantic relationships, is not only because we didn't do typical romantic things, but also because we both knew it was a QPR, and because I just didn't love them like how they loved me. To other people who were in the know, they would have deemed that past relationship romantic, but me and my partner both knew that that wasn't so, and that was all that truly mattered at the time.

26 minutes ago, Cavetowns_fkin_awesome said:

That is way too real man, I see someone (even more so straight couples who are only gonna last a month) my brain goes "ew" and I feel like I'm being mean to them but like, ew idk.

Yeah! It's like, I don't mean to think ill of any couples, but I often times think too, "How long is that gonna last?" And I know I only think it because I don't experience what they're experiencing, but I also see too many times relationships fall apart.

Boyfriend by COIN

I Don't Wanna Dance by COIN (I love songs where people don't want to dance, and dance means "to mingle" in these songs)

I Don't Want Love by The Antlers

You Can Make Me Want You by Suzi Quatro

Call Me The Breeze by Lynryd Skynyrd

Alone and Sublime by Mother Mother

Me, Myself, and I by G-Eazy, Bebe Rexha

Myself by Bazzi

I Don't Want Kids by Thomas Benjamin Wild Esq, Ben Dawson

(I Got Spurs That) jingle Jangle Jingle by Kay Kriser and His Orchestra

Make The Grade by Jack Conte

I'd Rather Be A Stone by Thomas Hien

I guess a, "Wow I'm aromantic" moment would be when I recognize couples all around me and think to myself, "Why would anyone want that?" To which then I think to myself, "Wait, the majority of people want that, but not me. There's literally couples right in front of me. Wow, I'm aromantic."

Sometimes I'll straight up forget that I'm aro, and other times I'm too consciously aware of it.

Someone has most definitely already said this, but I always felt like reclaiming Aphrodite, just like how some aros reclaimed Cupid since he has lead arrows that can make people not fall in love. A part of me has never liked a pre-destined fate of being able to fall in love or not being able to fall in love, but taking deities that are supposed to be alloromantic allosexual and stating how they may not be has always been fun, because then it adds another layer onto them being deities of love or passion. It can still be amatonormative regardless, though, so that's why I felt like reclaiming these Gods but never actually have.

9 hours ago, A_Mess said:

I'm not some puzzle to solve where you get a prize at the end, so kindly shoot your shot at a range that's actually open.

This is so eloquent, I'll need to use it at some point if what I said were to happen again.

I think some people just need to internalize that you shouldn't have to literally convince someone to be with you, or to give you an explanation into something personal, or to do something romantic/sexual for you. People often forget that, because being persistent or chasing someone is normalized and defaulted (most of the time with men, but some cases with women or anyone, though it's a different kind of persistence); it's maybe not liked by everyone, but definitely normalized and defaulted. And I am not saying that being persistent or chasing is inherently bad, just as long as everyone involved actually wants to be chased or wants to be persistent, and has actually and actively communicated that. We see in movies and shows the Guy™️ character chasing the Girl™️ character, and either she literally doesn't know about it, or she's suddenly all bashful despite not having liked the guy in the beginning, and that has always confused me??

7 hours ago, Ekaterina said:

Yes, exactly. "No means no" and "people don't owe anyone romantic feelings" is a topic on its own a lot can be said about, for both aros and non-aros. 

And can relate to an extent. Luckily I wasn't persistently pursued by a "potential romantic interest", but during school times certain other girls won't let me breathe with "which boy do you like?" and "why don't you have a boyfriend?" over and over again despite me telling many times that I'm just not interested in that. Those two girls in particular literally didn't have another conversation topic with me, well also "why don't you use cosmetics?" all over again too, which also wasn't their right to "fix" me about. Through probably a situation when someone does the "why don't you have a partner?" thing implying "why I am not your partner" is worse.

Sorry for everyone who had dealt with this kind of people. 

I've had "friends" like that too, though mainly in middle school. In high school some people had crushes on me, but no one ever actively pursued me, and that felt great. In middle school, though, lot's of guys kept on asking me if I was dating anyone, including girls - who either were just confused as to why I told them I never dated anyone and don't want to, or some of the girls I knew had crushes on me too - and some even asked why I didn't use makeup and I knew they were jabbing at my acne, though I would tell them that I simply didn't like using makeup, which is still true; Hell, a guy friend of mine asked me, "How do you not feel insecure at all?" and for a while I thought that that was an admirable trait of mine to not care, but then that question only started to make me feel more insecure than I ever did in my school life for a good long while. I think I was made more insecure about why I didn't want to date though, since everyone kept wanting to know why.

I would suggest confirming if this is a date or not. I know that can be nerve-wracking, but if you do want to hang out with her, you should make it clear that it's just platonic from your end. It's perfectly fine to go by gut instincts and to second guess if this is a date, because honestly some people just don't flat out ask others in a "Do you want to go on a date with me?" fashion anymore; this has always got on my nerves, but the people that do this don't do it out of malicious intent. To her (if  it is a date), she may be thinking that she is being loud and clear, but in my opinion if she still has feelings for you and is trying to go on a date with you, then she should be way more clear; because this also ends up as a detriment to the allo person in not calling the activity as it is to the other, because then the person they like may still just view them as a friend, and in this case that's literally so. For some allos, going out with them on what you don't know is a date would look like you're reciprocating to them, and it's just how I've seen some allos act and plus I have had this happen to me before. Hell, some allo friends of mine that had crushes on me would turn something that originally wasn't a date into a date during it and would still somehow end up surprised when I didn't return their feelings.

On 3/6/2024 at 9:13 PM, Fox said:

I've come to understand that, really the only gender identities I shied away from labeling myself with were 100% male and 100% female. I've felt close to it, and perhaps demiboy/demigirl or fem/masc nonbinary could describe me on different days. I've realized gender fluidity is just about a changing gender, and I don't need to necessarily identify as 100% man or 100% woman at any given point to be considered gender fluid. (If I am mistaken here though, please correct me, this is just how I'm understanding it right now.)

There are some genderfluid people who may feel and even call themselves male/men, female/women, or non-binary when their fluidity lands them experiencing those genders, but then there are genderfluid people who only identify as genderfluid, even when they may feel some type of maleness or masculinity, or femaleness or femininity, or neutrality. A genderfluid individual who experiences being a  man or a woman is a valid man or woman, but a genderfluid person who only labels themelf as genderfluid is completely valid as a genderfluid person, and is valid as non-binary(spec).

9 hours ago, Ekaterina said:

Oh I see, thanks for explaining. I didn't know this part about sexual explanation symbolism (how does this explanation work though if you don't mind telling, do people use analogy to pollination to explain sex? Would make sense, through it's more about the flowers that are engaging in their version of a reproductive act than the bees that provide the service. Also, what part do birds play in the explanation? Birds, especially songbirds and birds like swans, are often associated with romance, but what's about them that allows to explain sex easier?)

And great to hear I gave you an idea for a poem, good luck with it! Sounds like it would be a lovely one. 

It always gave me a weird feeling, but yeah "pollination" is sometimes used as symbolism to not only sex, but usually conceiving a child. I wouldn't know exactly how it works other than the act of a bee pollinating a flower, to which that flower then has the potentiality of having babies, is probably why some people use it; but as Holmbo said, people don't usually actually talk about bees when using pollination in this format. The analogy is not used a lot, but I've read that type of symbolism in old literature before that was trying to kind of censor sex scenes. The bit about the flowers engaging in their own reproduction would be a lot more accurate and I believe in hindsight it would've been better to use than only using bees for any kind of alloromanticism/allosexuality or service, but there's just this weird insinuation about bees when they pollinate flowers that people often make sexual?? (As I stated above) It gets weird and I never found it ""sexual"" for a bee to do that, but with the symbolism of pollination some people have used the actual act of bees pollinating flowers to symbolize sex in some form or another, too. And the bird part I used to further the "birds and the bees" analogy and because they are typically the actual romantic "counter-part" to bees, where if people used "pollination" to describe sex then I just used birds since they're considered "romantic" (or at least some birds are); but other than that I kind of just threw birds in for the analogy.

And thank you, I'm going to try to write the new poem very soon! I also think I could probably write something about how bees (aspec folk) are often having their actions taken as something romantic or sexual when we're not tryin' to be (like the act of a bee pollinating a flower).

On 3/15/2024 at 12:53 PM, Ekaterina said:

Good poem from the point of idea, but bad symbolism. Bees aren't "romantic", most of them - the worker bees - are actually unable to reproduce and don't mate and aren't supposed to, their life revolves around all kinds of different things (building, food gathering and pollination, standing guard, raising the young which are their siblings not their kids). The queen and the few males are the only ones that deal with mating (since the species needs to reproduce to survive). The bees (collective bees like the bumblebees and the honey bee, and ants that work the same way) are among the most aromantic/asexual-coded animals ever. 

Oh, I didn't write about the bees because I thought they were romantic-coded, although I can definitely see as why someone would see the poem as associating them as romantic creatures; so, I did fail in making that clear in the poem. I chose bees (and birds) because of the "birds and the bees" take that parents typically use to explain sex to their kids, which in a sense would tie back into romance because although sex isn't inherently tied to romance at all and is it's own separate thing, parents will usually tell their kids that you'll have sex with someone you "really love"; forgoing all nuance and complexity, such as people who have sex simply because they want to with no romantic love attached. I think I could write a poem about that all on it's own, actually. But, I don't truly know if this explanation is even a good concrete reason for the poem since as you said I could've potentially used vastly different symbolism that would've worked a bit better or more beautifully (especially with all of the facts centered around bees), but it's what I had in mind when writing it; but of course all kinds of interpretations are going to be born which I find amazing.

Ooo, actually, you've promptly inspired me to want to write a poem about the aspecuality of bees. To be honest, I could've wrote a poem about the non-romantic life of a bee compared to a bird's, which usually there are birds who mate for life and definitely have babies.

On 3/15/2024 at 1:11 PM, Fox said:

I like it! Is there perhaps asexual representation with not relating to "the birds and the bees"? 

Now that I actually re-read what I wrote, although I'm not asexual myself, I can see that it can definitely be read as such! I'd say it's both an aromantic and asexual poem then! Or however else someone wants to interpret it really.

A Bird Beak and Bumble Wings

by Memphis Lucas  (original poem)

I cannot understand the bumblebees

Who fly in pairs, or more, to pollinate and make honey

Who make more of themselves to love themselves, and to be proud of something

I cannot understand the bumblebees

Who can do great and beautiful things, sure

Born out of passion and a love for birds

Who settle down for life to raise young till they're matured

I cannot understand the bumblebees

For I would not be described as thee

A reptile they'll call me, for lacking the love that helps those birds soar above to the trees with those bees

A reptile I'll be, yes, for I am not a bird nor a bumblebee

I've longed to be, for me I thought dead when I discovered that lack of passion in my heart

A passion that made everything dubbed a bee or a bird, from the very start

I cannot understand the bumblebees

Because my passion is wrought with absorbing the sun

Not from an internal feeling that I constantly see burned and burned till that light is completely done

I myself can't fly, though I have seen others alike me able to rarely

I wouldn't fly, I found, if I were able to

No, I wouldn't fly, not even barely

I cannot understand the bumblebees

And I am not sorry for stating so

It is not wrong to be a bird or a bee, of course, but it wrong to be a reptile, though?

I have found so many passions of what I make, of what I love

But that love doesn't make us what we are, for we would be naught if not for the sun above

To be me is to free my skin of the prerequisite to being "alive"

My aloneness is free, yes a loveless reptile me

Than what could ever make a bird's beak sing or a bumble wing fly

On 3/1/2024 at 2:08 PM, Rook on the Hook said:

Personally, I find it pretty easy and interesting writing established couples--especially those who are well past the honeymoon phase--but I cannot for the life of me write a story about people actively falling in love because I just don't have that experience. Like, the experience of caring deeply about a person and the challenges of dealing with all their idiosyncracies and difficulties is something I've lived, and don't think changes all that much between romantic, close or queerplatonic, nor familial relationships, but it is very hard to write a traditional love story because such stories are actively alienating to me. It's like trying to paint a picture with colors I can't see. I might get the shape of things right, but it's just not going to be emotionally resonant in the same way.

I relate so heavily to how you write romance. I typically gravitate to writing my OCs already together, because it's really hard for me to write anyone falling in love. I have the picture in my mind of what it could potentially feel like and so look like, for two characters to fall in love, but at the same time I end up either writing some form of the characters experiencing alterous attraction (since that's what I mainly experience) or I write them as having a kind of familial bond that would be hard to label as "romantic" because of it. I love writing those types of emotions and relationships, but it's a real ass kicker if I had to write romance and someone who was astute enough recognized the emotions these characters are feeling as non-normative.

On 3/14/2024 at 12:45 AM, Leistorm said:

I'm really good at romantic scenes. My allo friends who are avid romance readers can vouch for me. But I have a hard time developing it realistically because I don't know how the pacing works. Is it too rushed? Too slow? This is one thing I have to consult my allo friends on. But I read and write fantasy with romance as a side-plot (contemp romance is annoying and I don't like when romance is the central focus, which is why I prefer books like Percy Jackson, Six of Crows, etc) so I have some exposure. 

I sort of evade the boundaries of "romantic vs platonic" because I establish intimacy between characters no matter the type of relationship. People could interperet my female MC and her male friend's relationship as semi-romantic if they weren't an aroace woman and a gay man. That's how it should work. The people in question determine their relationship, not labels and standards held up by societal norms. 

But I cannot, for the life of me, describe sexual attraction (needless to say I can't write smut because I'd just cringe and slam my laptop shut before I even touch the keyboard). Which makes it difficult to write characters who are asexual because that would mean implying that sexual attraction does in fact exist in other characters who are not asexual. That's the difficult part and I'll need a lot more guidance on that. This is why asexual representation is so hard to find in media, because you'll still have to mention sexual stuff to talk about the absence of it. Most media, at least for younger audiences, try to avoid it. But even between my allo characters, I won't write sex. I'm probably going to avoid even implying that they had sex. I'll just say "oh it's a time period where the culture is to to wait till marriage" or some garbage excuse lol (it might work though since it's a fantasy).

I often write intimacy between characters no matter the relationship, too, and my alloro friends often assume the pairs as romantic immediately (which can get quite annoying), and you stating how you wrote a platonic pair that were an aroace woman and a gay man reminds me of the aroace man and questioning lesbian I recently wrote lol

But that aside, I haven't dabbled into writing smut, nor explaining sexual attraction, in my works just yet. I think I would be fine at it? Like, Hell, I'm allosexual and I struggle in explaining sexual attraction all the time. Going a long time without writing can kind of hamper any confidence, especially in that regard, though. But, despite havin' no experience in that form of writing I think I could write more organic and sane sex, and even sane BDSM for that matter, than what 50 Shades of Grey or any Colleen Hoover book has.

So, I'm still questioning if I'm aplatonic(spec), and most of what I said earlier on this topic is still true. I have friends and I care about them deeply, but I don't have a desire necessarily to form new friends; I often let new people continue and maintain platonic contact with me at the start of knowing them, and usually that's kind of how I form new friendships. I found that I just have been growing more and more uninterested in making these new friendships, despite still liking meeting new people? People who I have known for quite a while, or a long time, I'll still maintain my own end of contact and routine, though it can feel like a contract of some kind sometimes, but it usually doesn't bother me as bad with the people I've known for a time. It's rare for me to want to suddenly be the person wanting to uphold a friendship via constantly texting, making up plans, or checkin' in on them when the relationship is fairly new, but it still happens from time to time. I guess that would be when I am experiencing platonic attraction. I'm a loveless aro and often completely remove myself from any kind of love rather radically, and so don't base my aromantic identity around experiencing platonic feelings or loving my family, even if those things could technically be applied to me.

Someone stated how they weren't a pet person, and I'm the same way. Truly? All I want is a cactus (I had succulents but they kind of died on me 🥲), and not an animal I have to constantly pay attention to; like cats, dogs, rodents, or birds. I do often gravitate towards creatures that people advise to not pay any physical attention to at all (other than feeding them and cleaning up after them), like tarantulas, snakes, and fish. But, I usually just have a mild interest in them that quickly fades away.

For any poetry, prose, or short fiction enjoyers or writers on this forum, I thought we could have something to share our writings here that may, or may not, be connected to our aromanticism! If you don't have a poem, piece of prose, or short fiction yourself, then you can share your favorites from authors and talk about what makes you love the piece of literature so much!

I was inspired to create this topic from a bar that has poetry nights and I recently have been getting back into the groove of writing because of it! This may not go anywhere, or has already been discussed before, but regardless welcome!

My dream job as a child was singing/becoming an actor, and although I have joined choirs and theater multiple times, I don't think having that as a career would be suitable to me, even though I think I'm somewhat good at both. One dream job that didn't change, even when I had become interested in other avenues, was writing. I'm not entirely sure if I can have a sustainable life off of my writing, but I'm going to try to earn an Associate of The Arts for English/Writing, and then hopefully transfer from my technical college to a four year school where I can just do my Junior and Senior years to get a Bachelor's degree. If I can't exactly live off of writing, I do want to venture more into social work and help organizations that fight for human rights. I did try to look into schools near me that had majors or minors in social justice, but sadly none did; but I can always do voluntary work, and have done some before, and could potentially get an actual job/role with an organization in the future.

On 11/2/2023 at 7:28 PM, Guest said:

Literally bc thinking I was alloromantic and heterosexual was a phase😭 And I hate it when ppl say ¨ if you decide to date...¨ like I just explicitly told you that I do not have the parts for the machine and you still think it will run??

Right??? Even when you thoroughly explain to someone how it would not work they still don't seem to grasp it?

Like, it's alright if you don't understand, just don't tell me to fix myself basically.

On 2/14/2024 at 1:48 PM, Mult said:

I'm going to say a misconception that I have come across is that some people think that we are do not want but are willing to give. Like, I do not want to engage in romantic relationships, but some people think that "love" triumphs over that, so if I "loved" them enough, I would give them what they want and date them and all that without expecting they "return the favour".

A rejection from me is simply a rejection. I am not willing to "compromise" within a relationship because I am not willing to be in a relationship in the first place. I also will not be someone's doll to hang around make someone feel better about themselves by identifying as their significant other. 

I had a girl I knew since we were kids beg me to be in a relationship with her even if I didn't feel attraction towards her. There were tears involved. I don't really understand and I don't think she understood what she was asking. Being in a relationship with someone to make them feel better while lying to everyone and saying that we are dating—it makes me feel ill.

Some people act like being single means someone is "available" for a relationship and that as long as that person is single, there is time to convince or change someone's mind about rejection, so I suppose people assume that saying one is aromantic is just a convenient excuse to reject someone rather than a real orientation.

I actually hate the idea that "love triumphs over all" when it comes to robbing someone else of their agency. I do not like people that think I'll change my mind, just because they got their feels hurt from forming a crush on me, and I rejected them. I'm "sorry," but no one is special enough to make me change my mind. For me, not being interested in dating and not being able to fall in love is utterly non-negotiable. There is absolutely no compromise. I have told people that I'm single but that I wasn't interested in dating at all, and a few times people have come back to just bother me about it as if I would ever change my mind, and some had become harassment issues until I had to "act like a bitch" to run them off.

On 3/5/2024 at 4:34 AM, dordor said:

omg thank you for thissss! 

i really want to read more aromantic books but there aren't manyy

It's no problem! I've been trying to find aromantic books for quite a while now, too.