The Newest Fabled Creature

6 hours ago, Holmbo said:

That's nice to hear thanks. I can post the rest of it here as I go through it if you like.

That'd be really cool! No pressure, though!

4 hours ago, Ekaterina said:

Well I don't belong to a culture that has this tradition and know it only from Western media and stuff, but it kind of feels for me this way too? I mean, if people want to kiss each other they can do it regardless of mistletoe, and the point of the mistletoe kissing is that you cannot say no to whoever may want to kiss you, which is... not a good thing? And forcing the actual couples to make a public show for people to laugh at out of their relationship isn't good either? Or do I misunderstand it? (You said "I thought" not "I think", so your view changed?) 

Oh no, my view on it hasn't changed! I may not think of it as a "joke" necessarily anymore (since when I was younger I kind of thought that mistletoes weren't taken seriously for they were used as jokes in media way too often), but now I see them as inherently unnecessary. When I realized they were real things done at some Christmas parties, I would actually be nervous to attend any, because of the possibility of being "caught under one"; but, thankfully none of the people I would visit had any. It does feel like a very forceful thing.

5 hours ago, Holmbo said:

I have been thinking about writing fiction for a long time but have had trouble coming up with an entire plot. But recently I actually got a full plot together which when finished I think will make about 5000 words. I just wrote the first part of it. It just the first draft but I'll share it here because I had a lot of fun writing it.

Sweat glistened on the men’s skin as they dodged and jumped to avoid the flames. I knew it was a performance, arranged for ultimate suspense, but still I felt caught up in the excitement. One man veaved the burning staff around as if intending to strike at his dance comrades. They bent backward only to turn upright again before the flame seemed to even have fully passed them. At the side stood other men of various ages singing, beating drums and waving bells in the air to create a pulsing music. “Aaarahm! Aaarahm! They sang in different stämmor in a slow rhythm which were weaved around the drums.

I felt pride watching the men’s performance. They were our men, choosen to serve the leaders of Rikkanu Island. Their ability for song and dance was part of the reason for their selection, and they spent much of their time honing their skill. Because of this they were the best performers of the island and, since our island was one of the most populous, possibly the best of the entire Kena Archipelago. I hadn’t been to any other of the islands fire festivals, although I knew from my studies that most of them had one, but at this moment it was hard to imagine that anything could surpass it.

The rhythm went faster and faster and the men’s dancing increased, they did not make huge leaps anymore but rather just moved their bodies in snake like undulations, hands touching different parts of their bodies and almost convulsing with sudden movements. Then suddenly the music stopped all at once and the men froze in place to then slowly sink down to lay on the ground. Then the smallest bell rang and my mentor stepped forward. She was the voice of the fire god and so had the duty to bring us her message for the upcoming year.

Leana was tall and muscular with a stern face. In opposite to the men with their bare skin she wore a big robe, it was jet black, the color of the most faded fire, but with red streaks sown into the fabric to resemble the orginal origin place of all fire. She stepped out in the middle of the circle, her back to the other leaders and facing the rest of the crowd. I was happy I was only an accolade still and so could stand in the crowd with my friends to see it all. I looked to my side where Anida was standing. She was also an accolade but for a different voice. Next year I would be a full voice and not stand next to hear. Anida noticed my gaze and looked back at me, her eyes shining with excitement from the dance. She leaned in, her hairdo poking my face.

“Did you see how Sharina’s brother danced?”

I shook my head. Who could keep track of one specific dancer in that mayhem?

“He looked so beautiful and strong. I feel half in love with him”

Her smile looked expectant as if she treasured this new appreciation of Sharina’s younger brother. I just shook my head and looked at her with mock sterness. This was a thing with us, she falling in love with every other man and me pretending annoyance at her childish games. What was the use in thinking about men in our situation? It would be years until we earned big enough status to have anyone court us. And if they were they would be from another island, other leaders seeking to offer their brothers and sons to tie us closer together. I knew some women also were together with men from our own island, it was permitted, they just didn’t get any formal status as their courter. To me these women seemed immature, as if they couldn’t let go of their childhood sweetheart. Surely a man from another island would be much more appropriate. When the time came.

My thoughts ended as Leana began to speak.

“Fire god! We thank you for your gift of flames and ask that you keep them contained and not let them loose among us.”

She took out a flask from among her robes and held it out straight from her body. She turned it upside down and poured the liquid It pooled and ran in rivulets along the dusty ground, the reflection of the surrounding torches gleaming in it. Leanna put the empty flask back inside her robes and held out her hand to the side to accept a burning torch from one of the dancers. When she had it in her hand she swept it down towards the liquid at the same time as she stepped back in one fluid motion while the liquid caught fire and the flames spread in front of her. I knew how difficult that was to time, I had practiced many times during my training until I was allowed to do it with actual fire.

Leana stood behind the flames.
“Fire god! If you choose give us a message about your will and intentions.”
She stared into the flames. I did the same. I assume most of the other crowd did too but for me and Leana it was different. We knew what we were looking for. And I could tell that we saw it as the same time because Leana moved back at the same time as I hissed in a breath. My whole body tensed.

“What’s wrong?” Hissed Anida, gripping my arm in concern. But Leana begun to speak.

“Thank you god for your message!” She said in an even tone. She stood for a short while longer watching the flames as they burned out. And then she turned abruptly and walked back to take her place among the other leaders. The voice of present people stepped out to continue the ceremony but I couldn’t hear anything. Because I along with Leana had seen the fire gods message. Had seen it’s warning.

 

 

 

I'm really invested! I know how it feels to not have a plot/be able to come up with one sometimes for some short fictions, since I still struggle with that, but this first draft has left me deeply intrigued and wanting to know more about it!

I can't remember if someone said this or if I maybe said this, but one thing that I recently realized about myself and could indicate aro-ness or being aspec for others, is that when I was younger I would often think to myself, "Huh, I guess I don't have any crushes because I just don't want any." Allos can't stop their attractions out of sheer willpower, nor can they just "turn it off" like how I also thought I was doing. 💀

So, you might be aro if you thought that not feeling attraction towards others was you just not wanting to/having the will.

The sex ed at my high school was sadly very vague at best, to cis/hetero/allonormative at worst. The teacher I had would explain how sex worked between a man and a woman and that you should use protection, how to use protection, etc etc, and kind of only talked about sex as a means of reproduction and not because maybe two (or more) people would just want to do it for fun? and despite being more detailed about the hetero side of things when it comes to sex ed, it was somehow still kind of dangerously vague?? But, although I am not saying a sex ed class has to be perfect when it comes to talking about minorities (you can only demand so much out of the KY educational system, or an educational system maintained by (usually) white cishetallos), my teacher never once mentioned gay sex at all, nor even a pathetic passing sentence, "Some people are gay and may only want sex with the same gender, and so how sex works between a man and a woman will be totally different and not necessarily applied to them," or that some people may be trans or intersex and so sex would be different for them, too. Aromanticism and asexuality are literally not that well known at all where I live, unless someone is aspec themselves or a real good ally of the aspec community, so any mention of people who may literally not want sex at all, don't masturbate or only masturbate, or just want sex for fun and that's it, aren't mentioned; Hell, it's not even about mentioning aro and ace people sometimes, people in general that have a complex relationship to sex and masturbation, and relationships as a whole, aren't talked about in these classes, and it's allonormative in that the teacher themself believes that the students they're teaching are going to be wanting these things in the future or are already doing it.

6 hours ago, Lovebird said:

I don't read a lot of romance novels, though I started reading thru my first one recently -- a story by Ana Huang, her protagonists are of often Asian women of colour -- as she is one herself. It's a typical friends/rivals to lovers with an interracial twist, it's basic, but I find it tolerable. I like how she describes things.

As for favourite tropes, I like meet cute, and established relationship. I also like both friends-to-lovers & enemies-to-lovers equally (this statement is apparently controversial in the aro community, with people complaining they're both "unrealistic", like yeah of course it's gonna be unrealistic, it's fictional??). Another 'controversial' one is " fake dating" -- it's like a slow burn to me hence why I like it.

Despite lot's of books I end up getting include romance in them, I fairly often don't try to get romance books at all, unless it's queer romance that intrigues me; I usually buy fantasy or fictional graphic novels, with a premise that I like, to where I get jump-scared by a romance that luckily isn't so bad most of the time. With some of these books, I end up loving how things are described and some of the fantasy series I have do this very well - almost to a fault of breaking apart simple dialogue or not getting to the point fast enough (lol). The tropes that often dominate these books, and which ended up being tropes that I like, are friends/enemies-to-lovers, destined-to-be (if written well), and opposites attract (this may be the only trope I'd say is my all time favorite, and doesn't have to be romantic at all, where as other ones are immediately seen as such). Like how you said, the first trope isn't liked by some aros and I completely understand, and in some cases, completely agree with that, but I am also a believer of if you don't see your romantic partner as a best friend, then if the relationship fails - what then? I don't think two, or more, people should stop talking to each other or stop doing stuff together just because a certain relationship dynamic ended; unless it's necessary to cut ties, of course.

So, this may be a niche type of romantic relationship, but in a book series called Red Queen by Victoria Aveyard, there's a side romance between two women that I couldn't help but "fall in love" with. I think it's them already being established and having already confided in each other about their own traumas, and their own messed up ideologies, that makes it bearable and waaaaaay better than the main character pairing, in my opinion; and that it feels more realistic? Same with another couple that consists of two men, and the main character's parents, etc etc. It isn't necessarily me only liking romantic couples that are already together, or have already confessed to one another, since in a fifth installment of the book series (this book is actually just short stories of what all of the characters are doing in the future, or some are about specific characters' pasts) there are couples where it shows them getting together or it shows how couples already established got together, and I liked it very much (my favorite would have to be the short story about a princess and a common river-boat captain getting together)! The author herself can write decent brewing romance, it's just the MCs that I have a hard time dealing with, I guess.

There are other romantic couples that I like in different book series (like the Dark Crystal series, Graceling series, Daughter of Smoke & Bone series, etc), but there isn't necessarily any ground-breaking reason for why an aro like myself loves them so much. Sometimes I just - I don't know - like the in-general romance without thinking too much about it, and then other times I know how glaringly obvious that a romance did not need to happen at all.

It is kind of funny, though. I often have a very potent aromantic perception of romance when it comes to writing things for myself or others, but when it comes to consuming media that has romance within it - I kind of just lose that perception? Sometimes? Unless the romance is ungodly awful. Or if the characters have clearly ambiguous feelings towards each other, that I often dub as non-normative attractions or tertiary attractions, to which then I headcanon the couple as a QPR.

I guess the best reaction I got (from my siblings) was: Makes sense.

So, I don't have much advice to give other than the fact that maybe you could bring up QPRs to him (if you're wanting that type of relationship with him ofc) or reinstate your boundaries to him. Because I understand, in my own way, how much it can suck to have friends say that you should break-up, or have other friends say, "Just communicate!" when you have been doing that already. The thing about him considering it a "win" that you fell in love with him despite being aro feels a bit off to me, since maybe he knows on a surface level that you're aromantic, but hasn't fully internalized it yet? And that could lead to problems for the relationship down the road, to which I wouldn't say that would be any of your fault. That's just speculation, though. From my experience with family members and friends, it took them quite a long while to actually fully understand what I can and cannot experience, even if they accepted me at face value for what I am from the start.

I guess one piece of advice could be that you said you confuse feelings of attraction and so may not know what type of relationships you want, and although I suggested a QPR I would say just go along with what made/makes you feel the happiest, or the most comfortable, and follow your gut with that type of relationship.

Out of Style by The Wrecks  has been looping in my brain non-stop. It's the beat for me, really, it itches something in my brain.

I know this situation has been cleared up, but I just wanted to say that it is a tempting thing to think that you would need a defining moment in your life that pinpoints exactly what you are, or that you would need a moment you could look back on to prove you're this or that identity, but genuinely, you don't need to have those experiences or those moments to know yourself; to "prove" yourself to people that may not even be listening to you, anyway. And if you need those experiences or moments to prove to yourself that you're a certain identity, then you need to look into why you feel that way. You shouldn't have to have put yourself into situations that would've made you uncomfortable, even if you did so unconsciously. It's valid to know that something isn't for you, or that something like romantic and/or sexual attraction just cannot happen with you, without ever needing to date or have sex; without the part of trying to "prove yourself wrong," or trying to "fix yourself." You should only be dating, or having any kind of encounters with other people, because you simply want to. If allo alloro people know what they want and who they are before they even start dating or have any kind of encounters with other people, then how come aspec people can't know themselves already without doing any of that?

Quite a few people here are saying Sherlock Holmes and John Watson, like, same, but no one is saying the 1984 show of Sherlock Holmes????? Which has very much QPR husband energy between Sherlock and Watson, including the 1954 version, too (which I doubt anyone has probably seen this version, but it's worth a curious watch, though 1984 is the best imo).

I also love shipping Bilbo Baggins and Thorin Oakenshield into a QPR. And whoever said Sam & Max, you're brilliant.

I relate to Gonzo from The Muppets a lot, because he's an adrenaline junkie (which I am, mildly), where's really gay outfits (which I always do), and is canonically non-binary. He's a Whatever and so am I.

On 4/11/2024 at 7:02 PM, Guest kazzle dazzle said:

So basically 2 1/2 years ago I learned what it meant to be aroace and it honestly cleared up so much in my life and I finally felt like I could explain everything that had been "wrong" with me up until then.

And everything was fine, until about six months later, when I started basically gaslighting myself into thinking I had crushes.

So basically one day there'll be a person I barely know and quite honestly don't give a damn about but then the next day they'll look at me and I'll get really bad anxiety all of a sudden and it feels the way a crush is supposed to feel except I know it's not a crush because I have no desire to date the person, I don't care if they date anyone else, and wouldn't care if they died the next day because I barely know them I just think they're attractive or funny.

But i have really bad social anxiety and intrusive thoughts so I start to gaslight myself into thinking it's a crush and I get really worked up about it and it's so weird cause i don't care about the person at all.

so basically i just need to know why i have some "symptoms" of a crush without it actually being a crush

I don't have any advice unfortunately, but I do relate with what you're going through. There have been times where guys at my job, or girls when I went to high school, would ask me if I'm single, or if I simply liked anyone, and throughout these encounters I would feel this anxiousness come over me and a fluttery-ness in my stomach that many would attribute to "feeling a crush" or with being "flattered." But, deep down, I knew that that anxiety and "fluttery-ness" was indeed just anxiety, and an aversion - that I did not want these people feeling attracted to me, or asking me out, at all. I know if someone were to feel romantic and/or sexual attraction to me that it's because they're not able to control it, and it will happen again and again, but because I don't feel any attraction towards people (I mean, I'm allosexual, but my aromanticism overrides it) I often forget that complete strangers may dig me in that way, and I often just try to ignore the implications of it. I'm not trying to say that for you it's aversion, but that is what it is for me.

Here are some books that you probably definitely heard of by now, but just in case you haven't, or if someone who reads this thread hasn't:

(1) Sounds Fake But Okay: An Asexual and Aromantic Perspective On Love, Relationships, Sex and Pretty Much Anything Else by Kayla Kaszyca and Sarah Costello, 2023

(2) Aro and Ace Journeys: A Guide to Embracing Your Asexual or Aromantic Identity by The Ace and Aro Advacy Project (TAAAP), 2023

(3) Against Love: A Polemic by Laura Kipnis, 2003-2004 (this book is mainly about amatonormativty)

(4) The Invisble Orientation: An Introduction to Asexuality by Julie Sondra Decker, 2015 (I haven't read this one, but I have heard it's good?)

(5) Ace: What Asexuality Reveals about Desire, Society, and the Meaning of Sex by Angela Chen, 2020

There are lot's of other books, but those are the ones I could think of off the top of my head.

On 4/22/2024 at 2:34 AM, Neon said:

These are really goofy strawmen of real exclusionist arguments I've seen.

• Must not feel any kind of romantic attraction
• Cannot have dated anyone in the past, or even wanted to date someone
• Cannot have even thought they had a crush
• Cannot be aplatonic, afamiliar, loveless, or similar
• Must be romance repulsed
• Must not have sex, even if they aren't asexual

Those are all the ones I can think of at the moment.

(Also the term "gold star asexual" references "gold star lesbian" which was really used for exclusion, and it meant "lesbian who has never slept with a man")

Yeah, I would not have made for a "gold star aro" since I technically dated someone in a QPR before, thought I had crushes when I was younger, am loveless, and I'm not really romance-repulsed at all.

16 hours ago, Neon said:

I'm taking this as a challenge. I will exclude everyone on this site from the aromantic community. There's not enough space for all of us in this 100% definitely physical space (I have already been kicked out).

• Must have or want a QPR
• Cannot have or a QPR with multiple people at the same time
• Must have never been asked out
• Must be the go-to person in your friend group for romantic advice
• Must hate all romance in media
• Must not have ever done anything that can be interpreted as romantic

I fail this version too, lmao

I fail the whole entire list

14 hours ago, Nagito said:

I personally dislike it when there's canon romance in works of another genres – especially when it's heteronormative romance that is pushed down your throat and I'm really, really picky about ships. Someone would think that because most of my ships are slash then I ship anything between two (or more) male characters, but I don't. There are many ships (and tropes) I just can't stomach.

I get that. Two of my most favorite fantasy book series ever (Daughter of Smoke & Bone by Laini Taylor and Red Queen by Victoria Aveyard) does have that heternormative-it-really-doesn't-have-to-be-there romances. They are great fantasy examples, don't get me wrong, where DOSB has Chimera, Seraphim, resurrection, and soul magic, and Red Queen has revolutionary-people-with-powers shit - both I do believe are worth it to read, but the romances are only really good for the side characters? Like, the main characters in DOSB have a very soulmate type romance which is somewhat stomachable in how it's written, but I do see that trope a lot and get tired of it sometimes, and Red Queen's main characters are very unstable and I feel like should've had way more time to be by themselves and to heal. Both series' side character romances I was way more invested in, to be honest, and especially Red Queen's who has some queer relationships that feel way more organic then the straight ones.

On 4/14/2024 at 4:55 PM, Raininspring said:

Another thought came to mind for how I realized I was aroace - being asked multiple times throughout my life what type of person I look for in a partner and/or what type of person I'm into and me having no real answer. One time I made a crappy attempt and the only answer I gave was, "um, maybe not someone too tall."

I legit have had more people ask me that now than when I've come to terms with being aro, where I swear - no one confessed to having crushes on me, or tried to ask me out, or asked about my romantic life, before I even thought about questioning myself on being aromantic. Now, if someone ever asks me in what I would find appealing in a future partner, I would say, "The capacity to walk away."

I do find it that lot's of aspec people don't like romantic and/or sexual media, and it can be liberating to talk about that dislike or disconnect, which can lead into emotional and important topics associated with amatonormativity and allonormativity. All of that is completely valid! But, it's also 100% valid to like those kinds of media, too! I'm aroallo and I still love romantic genres (although, I am quite picky), and sometimes I ship characters romantically more than platonically, or queerplatonically (unless a character is blatantly aspec, then I ship them queerplatonically with others). There's nothing that makes you any "less" aroace, like how me loving romance every once in a while doesn't make me any less aro. Think of it as this: if you don't consider other aspecs any less because of the media they consume, then that means you're not any less for the media you consume.

There could be other terms that I'm just not aware of, but in my opinion, I'd say that you can definitely call a potential relationship a QPR even if there's romantic attraction involved sometimes! QPRs are supposed to be liberating relationships that consist of non-normative feelings, relationship styles, or identities. You don't have to be aspec to have a QPR, nor do you even have to be queer, and sometimes romance (whether that be the action or the feeling) can be incorporated into these relationships. Being aroflux is just another beautiful part of the aspec community, and another sacred queer identity, and however you want to define a future relationship is entirely up to you and your partner(s). Some arofluxes may define their relationship as romantic when they do experience romantic attraction to their partner(s), and some don't at all and may still define as it was before. There's no need to sweat it though. Your identity, and any relationship you may or may not have, is valid and welcomed here, no matter how you want to define it; and if anyone says otherwise they're wrong.

I can see why you think there's no point in romantic relationships because of your aromanticism, and I relate to that. I do see aromantics who enter QPRs or who enter romantic relationships, though, and there are aromantic people who are already married when they discover their aromanticism and may still want that relationship, or some who already know they're aro but still want to get married to their partner(s). To some, as @organs and bones said, they just want a connection and may even feel a strong attraction toward who they're with but it's just not romantic. QPRs are usually the types of relationships I see aros and aces enter, though you don't have to be aro or ace to enter one, nor do you have to even be queer to have that queer relationship; and QPRs can consist of neither romantic and sexual things in the relationship, or only sexual things in the relationship, or only romantic things in the relationship, or a secret third thing, or include romantic and sexual things in the relationship. Some people ask, what makes a QPR that has both romo and sex in it any different from a romantic relationship? The partners deciding that it's a QPR, that is.

It was nearing Valentine's Day, I was at work and some random customer asked me if I was dating anyone, and I only ever seen this guy one other time in the store, and so technically one other time in my whole life. I told him (while smiling to lessen the blow) that no I wasn't dating anyone, but that I was not interested in dating. He smiled, said, "Okay, I just wanted to know," and walked out. A few days later he comes back in and I hit him with the cold treatment, and I haven't seen him since. I don't know if it's because of that last interaction with him, or if he found someone else to bother (because yes, I find situations like these as bothering me), but I have been placed on night shifts for a long while, so it could be that he has been frequenting the store but I just never see him. I literally dress so butch though and have a boy's cut, and go by a gender neutral/masculine name, so I to the Gods above, don't know how he was attracted to me, but it could be that he's a straight dude that's into that, or that he isn't straight. I know it's not right to assume something like that of a stranger, but this happens quite a bit. Not to say that there aren't straight people with gaydars, but I have seen that it takes a lot more for straight people to know that who they're talking to isn't like them.

I guess in summary, just say you're not interested in that kind of thing, lie and say you are seeing someone, or just say a stern "No" and leave it as that.

The thing is, with the concept of a "late bloomer," it's meant to be considered someone being late to something "important," when romantic attraction and relationships aren't the most important things in the world, really (though, I'm not saying that to try to diminish the relationships that minorities have fought for). It can be important to an individual, but for the whole world to experience? No. In my opinion, there is no late bloomer, there's just people who experience romantic love later on, and people who never do experience it later on. You do seem stressed about potentially being a late bloomer right now, and so you need to ask yourself, "Is it important to you for you to experience romantic love? or "Are you afraid of not being aromantic "the whole time""? Because, I can tell you two things: (1) There are arospec people who experience romantic love and relationships rarely, or under certain circumstances. (2) There are people who "faking" being queer in a certain way wouldn't be worried about becoming "un-queer" or "not being queer enough," they would be more concerned about faking it right or enough.

You can absolutely sing love songs as an aro! In fact, I find it empowering when someone who can't feel romantic love sings romance songs to steal it from the allos (lmao). Some of my favorite songs that are supposed to be love songs I can actually see it being about a different kind of love (i.e. "Till Then" 1958 by The Mills Brothers, I really only see being about familial love), and there's some love songs I just love singing (i.e. "The longest Time" by Billy Joel).

I feel like my depression and anxiety were getting better over time, but my physical health has taken a nose-dive in some departments, and so my depression and anxiety has been rearing their ugly heads. I found that it's really hard for me to keep up with communication between friends, I totally forewent any contact with extended family members at this point, and it's hard for me to do things I really enjoy like writing, singing, doing theater, wanting to join diverse organizations, etc. To be honest, I have no clue what was making my mental illnesses "easier" to cope with before, but I can only hope to learn to deal with it all over again with these new tribulations.

I guess reassurances that things will be okay would be nice. Or seeing people who went through the same physical things I'm going through right now tell me that I can still have a life of my own, that it can get better, and if it doesn't then there are ways for me to live comfortably still.