DeltaAro

@hemogoblin

Yes, "vegetables" is an umbrella term, describing a group of human-edible plant parts. And this grouping is of no relevance in botany: An alien 👽 scientist studying Earth's flora would come up with a term like "fruit" but not "vegetable".

Vegetables = {tomatoes, carrots, spinach, onions, bell peppers, ...}

The elements of the grouping are quite scientifically precise, though: tomatoes are the fruits of dolanum lycopersicum, carrots are the roots of daucus carota, and so on.

Gender is not about plants, and instead about humans. But "gender" certainly does not describe a group of humans. Perhaps gender describes the set of all specific genders?

Gender = {women, men, enbies, ...}

So the specific genders refer to groups of people.

Now we notice two important differences to "vegetable":

1. A specific gender like "non-binary" is just as socially constructed as "gender" itself is. But what a tomato is, or a carrot, is not socially constructed!
2. We have no restrictions which groupings of people qualify as a gender. "Nerd" cannot be a gender. Why? But vegetables must at least be human-edible plant parts, not any plant parts. Cotton or oak wood is not a vegetable.

So I'd still agree with @Holmbo that gender kind of hangs in the air.

17 hours ago, hemogoblin said:

There is no clear, objective distinction of what makes a vegetable a vegetable and not some other categorization, as displayed by the "category bending" vegetables like tomatoes.

Same with gender. There is no simple, easy, or concise standard or set of standards that defines or categorizes genders/what gender is.

Let's make it complex, difficult and verbose!  😉

For now, genders describe groups of humans. Duh...

17 hours ago, hemogoblin said:

I can't tell you what scientifically makes us feel a gender (neither can science yet), but I can tell you the annoying vague answer to what's the difference between being trans and gnc or what defines you as a woman: a person's feelings.

I don't even think that's so vague. The real problem is that this isn't a general answer at all.

If someone feels their gender is "nerd", we would conclude that this person is very confused or trolling. Right?

"Nerd" is not even remotely contained in the concept of "gender". It's like calling cotton a vegetable - only that we have a good answer here: "Because it's not edible, stupid!"

Maybe you can still insert aroflux, aceflux or genderflux somewhere? If it means romantic/sexual orientation or gender are fluctuating, it should be combinable with other labels.

Btw, aroflux aceflux genderflux is the best...😄

Aro Ace Gender

TRIPLE 🌩️ FLUX

 Energy

18 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

In full honesty, I've been using Tinder for over a year and I've never encountered that, but I have seen that sort of thing on this very website. lmfao

Well, this website uses Invision, surprising that bots are written for that... but possible. The crypto scams on Tinder I admittedly only know from reporting.

Still, I always hear from the people who use dating apps, that because of those and similar occurrences, they strictly only accept people with other social media. So one begets the other. I would only have LinkedIn and a Facebook page I haven't used in years. 🙂

1 hour ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

I don't think wanting privacy necessarily has to do with being aro, lol.

As I said, it was kind of clickbait-y. Of course, you need already be secretive. But I still think that being aro is like the cherry on that cake. 🍰

1 hour ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

If someone hates social media I highly doubt they'd be willing to change that just for romance.

If they really hate it, yes (even I still use social meda a bit, because it's basically unavoidable).

But I've witnessed it, how people suddenly lose much of their reservations about social media when it comes to dating. Though most dating apps are positively scary and involve way more scams than "normal" social media.

Like model-type, high-achiever wants to date you and starts to chat with you about her crypto investments. "Today is my perfect day".🤑

It's safe to assume that aros use dating apps only rarely. I know aros can and often are super-extroverted and open. But what if you're not like this, and instead rather secretive, like me? Then this aversion extends to a lot of modern social media.

If you're a secretive romantic, maybe romantic desires give you the motivation to act against your character? But this won't happen for me.

I'm not a Luddite in the sense of being techno-phobic. But I hate a lot of social behavior that is enabled by modern technology. I mean, remember there was once, a long time ago, a Golden Age in which not every of your stupid mistakes was recorded and readily archived. The elders told me stories about this.

Do you suffer introverted + secretive + aro "Ludditism"?

I never understood the romantic need for couple photos as profile pictures.

Yeah, you've got a partner, I'm impressed.... NOT.

PS: Oh no, I overtook @Apathetic Echidna in the number of posts. 😾I don't want to be an aro silverback!!!

On 11/30/2022 at 6:20 AM, Collie said:

Crona my beloved. They are my baby. I was so depressed when the manga ended.

Manga artist who created Soul Eater answers the question of Crona's gender:

11 hours ago, Arden said:

But as long as consent is given and there's no immorality integrated within the sexualisation, I'd say it's perfectly acceptable. It's part of the sexual community, and it can lead to people exploring their sexuality, and sexual attraction. I can't see once certain boundaries are implemented, and as long as it remains completely moral and respectful, why it should be seen as a bad thing. 

It is supposed to be a bad thing even then, because sexualization pushes harmful gender norms and stereotypes. And the notion that one's (or rather a woman's) value derives from sex appeal or physical appearance.

Of course this does not apply to Tumblr amateur artists or absurd niche commercial products. They aren't effective in shaping our culture.

This is about sexualization in media with some mainstream appeal, like movies or video games.

Importantly, not just media you cannot avoid like commercials or billboards. Dead or Alive was strongly criticized for its sexualized content. But you won't see the skimpy girls if you don't actively play the game.

That's the issue. Do I see some merit in it? Yes... but mostly not. I don't think there can even in principle be a solution. Freedom of expression (where I include freedom from pressure of non-state actors) with the disclaimer "but only as long as you are not successful" isn't worth anything.

The biggest paradox is that people get ever more worked up about assumed indirect harm, often forgetting about concrete, direct harm.

Take Cuties again: the movie is a critique of premature sexualization. But the 11-year-old girls starring in Cuties are still real 11-year-old girls. And I don't understand why it is simply assumed with absolute certainty that filming those short, yet disturbing scenes (think: Nicki Minaj performance) was not harmful to them. Maybe not, I hope so. But it wouldn't surprise me.

9 hours ago, Nix said:

I’m all for people expressing themselves in creative ways, even if what they make is not something I would like to see.

There is also morbid fascination and that's like "I want to see it and I don't want to see it".

I remember this feeling when I stumbled upon vorarephiliac art by an actual paleoartist.

On 1/1/2023 at 11:45 PM, TatzelwurmMilk said:

I decided to look up the textbook definition of "sexualize," which is, "make sexual; attribute sex or a sex role to." This definition is broader than what I was guessing people's definitions might have been but I'm still not positive that was the definition everyone was using.

IMHO this definition gets it right, that's how the word is used. But the emphasis should be on "make" and "attribute". What is sexualized lacks agency and so the word has a negative connotation.

But why is sexualization an issue?

1. You need consent for real persons anyway. So here it seems clear-cut.
2. There are fictional or stereotypical characters (e. g. nurses). Alice from Alice in Wonderland is a seven year old child. If you wear a sexy Alice costume on Halloween, you're sexualizing the character. But fictional characters don't feel anything. No harm done. Aside from respect for someone's creations, which is a general issue.
   (Though the license gives you the permission, do not even think of sexualizing the aro frogs , how dare you!)

So sexualization resides in a very murky area:

1. Consent was given, but something makes it questionable.
2. People push harmful social norms and attitudes, for example by sexualizing fictional characters or using sexualized stock characters.

And you can argue about this all day long. Because my sensibilities may be different than yours.

(Disclaimer: some of the linked material is mildly NSFW)

Some people see indefensible sexualization in Cuties (Mignonnes), others in chainmail bikinis. Some reject Ivy from Soul Calibur as over-sexualized but are totally fine with Mad Moxxi from Borderlands.

All this is heavily embroiled with the culture wars, so I can't really take it that seriously.

On 1/2/2023 at 2:28 AM, Neon said:

While sexual attraction is involuntary, sexualization is a purposeful action. By only seeing what people can offer sexually, you make it clear you do not see them as people.

This sounds bad. But it's still quite vague.

If I go shopping in the supermarket I sometimes wonder if using self-checkout is going to be faster than lining up in the manual cashier lane. In this moment do I not only see what those real humans can offer for me in efficiency? Do I still see them as people? I compare them with lifeless automatons!

18 hours ago, The Gray Warlock said:

I going to be honest. Only someone who has never felt completely bereft of love, or felt the remaining presence of love left in their lives threatened, and has never struggled to love themselves, would ask that question. The early traumas of my life left me with these struggles to overcome. And having overcome them there is no doubt in my mind as to the importance of love in our existence.

Looked at it this way, love is like wealth. We assume it's good to have it. Few people do not desire it. Losing your wealth is an existential threat. People cry themselves to sleep over it. Yet strangely, the correlation wealth-happiness is not clear-cut.

The only difference is: being wealthy is not associated with being a good person.

12 hours ago, The Gray Warlock said:

I stand by the points I made though. And I think there is an interesting discussion to be had. These things you speak of, caring, empathy etc. it is my opinion that these things come from love. Whether or not we realize it, even if it is only momentary. And it doesn't necessarily have to involve full on devotion as in a friendship. It can be a simple gesture of kindness to a stranger. Why can that not be a form of love? Surely there is a place of love that this welling of kindness must have come from.

I'm psychic, I knew you would defend love!

Anyway, I imagine a wandering sage helping people on the way. Never developing any deeper ties. In a broader sense, this is also love, for all humans. Must be an unequivocally good quality, right?

But in the modern, narrower sense, love is love to a specific person.

It's surprising that arguably the biggest pop culture phenomenon of all times contains the idea that such love may not be so 100% positive:

9 hours ago, Nix said:

but turns into something deeper (?) after a while.

I love that question mark.

Nitpick: question wasn't about romantic love, but all kinds of love, including those that don't give you a drug-like high, like platonic love (except for those who feel squishes).

10 hours ago, nonmerci said:

Why is love seen as this pure thing that makes us nice and kind, or humans ? Why did our ancestors look at love and say "hello you, you will be the feeling that I will elevate above all qualities and declare the most important thing in the world ?"

I don't know how old the idea really is. "Ancestors" sounds like paleolithic to me. 🙂

Love is a big thing in Christianity. But other cultures valued honor, wisdom, temperance and courage more.

Cynically, one could argue that love won because it is an extremely vague concept, and in one form or another comes easy to all but a few people.

Also everything horrible is subsumed under "hate" (though perhaps hate is sometimes good... 😄 ok, seriously maybe not against persons but against bad deeds). And "hate" is the antonym of "love".

The Eastern philosophy of nothingness.

In Western philosophy nothingness is very neglected. It seems the 'argument' that goes like "there's nothing to say about nothingness" was too convincing. 🙃

1 hour ago, The Gray Warlock said:

The history of bodybuilding. I find Bronze Era the most interesting.

They look the most believable and healthiest. 😉

5 hours ago, Storm_leopardcat said:

.....What does that mean, again? In a fishing-related context?

Silly attempt at humor. Don't try to put too much sense in my posts here. 😉

More seriously, I wonder if this job advertisement is even legal. AFAIK in the UK you need an objective reason for discriminating by gender.

 And I really don't see why gender should be relevant to selling fish 🐟!

On 12/21/2022 at 1:32 AM, DeltaAro said:

I sometimes stole grapes🍇 from local vineyards

😬

1 hour ago, Cloud said:

Hii I'm cloud.

Hi! First Cloud I meet after Cloud Strife!!!

17 minutes ago, roboticanary said:

I get what they want to say  but the phrasing on this is fantastic

They just want a genderflux person for their fish store. Pretty normal, imho. 🤷‍♂️

On 12/19/2022 at 11:56 PM, roboticanary said:

I remember once I tried grapes that are the grapes from a few common wine varieties and for some reason it really surprised me that they tasted somewhat like the wine they make. Which should be really obvious but I just didn't expect it.

I sometimes stole grapes🍇 from local vineyards, purple and green, and while they tasted like the wine produced there, table grapes taste way better.

Anyway, I like green ones more. Oh yes... which ones? They must have names, too, like the wine ones, right? But as this thread shows nobody knows them.

So a wine connoisseur is a person of culture. But a table grape nerd... I feel it might prompt unsolicited, amateur diagnoses of Asperger's. Weird humans.

On 12/7/2022 at 6:29 PM, The Gray Warlock said:

Thelemite. 

So if you're sitting in a pub, this is a meeting of the Grand Lodge of Aro Thelemites in South Dakota?

On 11/27/2022 at 8:01 AM, whatistheromance said:

WHERE IS IT DANGIT

Reminds me of those looted post-apocalyptic supermarkets.

Where there's always something that remains. Like shrimp-flavored waffles or pumpkin latte hummus.

So if you look hard enough, you probably come across a nice canned unoped aroallo representation (expiry 1/1/2013).

4 hours ago, The Gray Warlock said:

Ever since I was a kid I've had a fascination with mushrooms.

Pedantic nitpick: Mushrooms 🍄 are not plants but fungi.

I like the Ink Cap:

it looks soooo ... Goth? Also edible when young.

And the Green Brittlegill:

because it's gray-green and very tasty.

6 hours ago, Storm_leopardcat said:

Islam doesn’t have a concept of sexual orientations, or romantic orientations. It never says that any attraction is wrong. It only talks about actions and behaviour. 

So, yeah, Aromanticism as a concept does not exist in Islam, but neither does the concept of human beings having to be straight, or being attracted to the opposite sex. 

Please don’t come at me with arguments for this and saying that it’s wrong or something, I know everyone here isn’t a Muslim, most aren’t. I’m not expecting any of you to have the same views. I’m simply stating what Islam says about this. 

A huge chunk of LGBTQIA+ is about acceptance of other people's consensual sexual behavior as something morally neutral.

So there is an obvious conflict to mainstream, contemporary Islamic teaching, which regards homosexual acts as sinful.

On 11/26/2022 at 6:47 PM, Nix said:

Maybe she could lose love letters? No idea about the slogan though, I’m more of a drawer… I’m gonna go sketch something :)

Yes, this is really difficult. Especially in a foreign language.

"When it rains, it pours" is a twist on the saying "It never rains but it pours" which means that troubles rarely come alone. But here it also means that Morton's Salt doesn't cake in the container at high air humidity.

I wish I would find something that creative in an aro version. 🤔

On 11/26/2022 at 7:31 PM, Nix said:

Just a sketch now, maybe someone has a better idea than the love letters? I guess she is going to recycle them 😅

I love the idea. I imagine they did some Valentine's project at school and aardvark got assigned to deliver the love letters. Carelessly loses them in the rain. She's in a lot of trouble, poor aardvark.

On 11/25/2022 at 11:08 AM, whatistheromance said:

Title. If this is a thing I want it. I want it right now. When I say "literal aro umbrella" I mean an umbrella that has the aro flag on it

Oh yes! I'd like to have one, too!!

And you gave me another idea. Since there are so many parodies of the classic Morton Salt advertising:

we should definitely do an aro version of it!

Like maybe with an "Aardvark girl" and definitely with an aro umbrella... still thinking about the slogan and what she should carry / lose. 🤔

35 minutes ago, roboticanary said:

fantastic! just added this

I wonder if it would be better to remove the leftmost black stripe... it wasn't present in the original, and it now looks kind of packed.

Hello and welcome!

On 11/21/2022 at 9:13 PM, whatistheromance said:

If you do, don’t use an emulator. Disregarding the legality of it, most emulators are just bad. I tried and accidentally erased all my data because of a misclick.

I have to add: this isn't true for all emulators.

I used ePSXe to play Final Fantasy VII (after having played the remake) and this emulator is better than a real PlayStation: improved graphics rendering and save-snapshots.

Also Snes9x for Final Fantasy VI worked flawlessly.

Yes, downloading original ROMs / ISOs is theoretically illegal.

But I'm an aro outlaw assassin 🏴‍☠️, and it's abandonware and Square Inc. got my money for the new games anyway, so ... duh, I don't care. 😉

Ok seriously... Ace Attorney is PS4, I only have a PS5 but it should run in compatibility mode... should try it out...

What about platonic or ... aesthetic 😉 orientations?