Lovebird

1 hour ago, nonmerci said:

Yeah totally agree.

I may be wrong but I feel like a lot of people in the aro subreddit are still young or still figuring things out and discovering the community. So they are not aware yet of what is problematic to say or not. I think it is less the case here where people discuss for a longer time about the different experiences that exist, so they are more open to diversity. At least it is just a guess.

 

We also have good moderators here and we all thanks them for their work. So I think casual ableism would be soon moderated.

 

Oh yeah. Which is even more annoying cause from what I see, it seems to have more ND people in the a-spec communities than in the allo ones. So even if all ND people are not a-spec, denying the intersectionality is just weird.

Some people just want to have the perfect aro and will throw under the bus all the aros that don't fit or that deny their ideal. I suppose our community is not unique in that, you find people like that everywhere. But it is a problem that needs to be more addressed.

I agree, it's often a lot of baby aros, young ones at that, typically doing this. I think it's due to many being raised in conservative religious enviroments where the white cishet amatonormitive patriarchy was pushed upon them by parents, other family members and religious schools - they learn about LGBTQIA+ identities, culture and community, realise they're aro/ace and being unable to have a healthy outlet to let out their inner trauma, reinstill an anti-romance stance which I've noticed often manifests itself in ableism and sometimes outright homophobia & biphobia.

I've also noticed similiar sentiments among baby aces in the asexual community. All of this being used to instill a sense of pride and acompilation in being "unique" and how they're immune from bad things happening to them due to being aspec plus lack of accountability.

20 minutes ago, DeltaAro said:

Sorry for my long last post. What I mean is: for whatever reason, alloromantics really like to compare romantic love with madness. While paradoxically believing that love is what makes you human!

Both ideas are deeply entrenched in our culture, and aros feel forced to react to them. Of course, this harms neurodivergent people again.

But you would have to teach aros that they should not agree to the ideas of alloromantic mainstream and just interpret them differently. E.g. gleefully agreeing that love is madness. Or the "I assure you, I'm not a psycho because I experience this other type of love xy" groveling. Instead, they should reject those ideas completely.

Obviously, this is not going to happen tomorrow.

I belong to the 10 %.   😇 Who knows what emotions are, correlation doesn't mean it is the thing. Lightning isn't thunder.

I don't know what those aros are up to here. It's perhaps a reaction to mystical ideas like "soul mates" which exist for romantic love but not for other emotions like friendship. So saying "it's just chemicals" could exactly mean that romantic love is not fundamentally different from other emotions. I don't know.

While it is correct that it won't happen overnight, I just wished more people realised what they were saying on the internet and how they approched certain experiences different from ours. I do plan on making a post... somewhere calling it all out.

This forum has been pretty chill with not throwing around casual ableism, but other places are not so kind, the aromantic subbreddit is the worst contender for it and is the reason why I'm so hesitant to enter aro spaces as I don't want to seem like I'm worse than a serial killer for having a spouse while being arospec.

10 hours ago, nonmerci said:

@Lovebirdyeah true. I find the ableism big in this community. In the same idea, there is the "we are aro not psycho" discourse that is also ableist considering that psychopath is an outdated term for a type anti-personality disorder, and these people didn't ask to be evilized for no reason.

I also see someone say that "loveless aro" should not be a label cause for them being loveless is a neurodivergent thing and should not be associated with the aro community. So many problems in that I don't know where to begin.

 

In general I think the aro community discussed a lot how being aro impact your life in an amatonormative society, but we not discuss much about how we fit in the a-spec community at large, or problems that can rise in the aro community (such as allo hate, some amatonormative view on platonic love, aroallo erasure...). You see a discussion from time to time, but I'm not sure this was discussed in details. 

As a partially loveless aro, I disagree. It is a very important label, not all of us love everything in sight and that's fine. ND or not it's a good term and I don't understand the push back. It should absolutely be associated with the aro community as it was coined by ND people.

1 hour ago, DeltaAro said:

In Western culture, romantic love was traditionally compared to madness, so it's not something aros came up with. They just interpret it anachronistically and distort it.

This goes all back to Plato*, who calls "eros" (= translated: "love") a sort of "mania" (= "madness"). So aros hear this and think, "Yeah, this sounds on point". And then double down on it and voilà we arrive at "romantic love is a mental illness" (which lost all poetic charm and sounds 100 % clinical).

This is all wrong, since Plato also states that four types of madness are not a negative burden and instead divine gifts:

• the madness of the prophet from Apollo
• the purifying madness from Dionysos
• the creative madness of the poet given by the Muses

and finally the grandest and most excellent madness (you know what comes next...)

• the madness of the lover, from Eros and Aphrodite.

Plato was sex-negative, but his praise of love is so extreme, that it acquires a metaphysical dimension. Love is an appraisal of the Form of Beauty, which our soul has "seen" in another life. It makes the soul remember the realm beyond the heavens, lets it sprout wings and long to fly back to the divine banquet to "feast" on the forms (e.g. Form of Good, Justice, Truth, Equality, ...) and acquire immortality.

So the source of "love is madness" is actually extremely exclusionary to aros.

And while I'd say romantic love in the acute phase can involve altered states of consciousness, this is temporary and something most people experience (and therefore accepted or even expected). Romantic love may involve negative feelings, but overall it's more positive or at least a mixed bag, which is not typically true for mental illnesses.

* of course, he was inspired by older Greek myths. But he was the one who systemized it. And also via Plato it seeped into Christian culture.

Plato 😉

I don't really where it came from because it needs to be stopped regardless. The feelings of disabled arospecs should prioritise the bad takes of those who are obviously NTs who are looking for an excuse to throw people under a bus.

But what makes no sense to also is the people who DO say it's just a feeling you can get rid of that it's just a chemical, when you could say that about literally any emotion! "Romantic attraction is just a chemical!!" so is every other human emotion ever, what do you think serotonin is?? I swear 90% of the aro community fell asleep in psychology class.

More of a complaint, but elitism & ableism within the aro community

Idk who needs to hear this but calling people psychos/crazy/mentally ill for experiencing romantic attraction and saying romantic love is the equivalent to a mental illness or a curable disease is a spit in the face disabled, neurodivergant and mentally ill folk of all stripes, especially those who have been fighting for marriage & relationship equality.

Also what needs to be heard is that attractional and lack thereof is morally neutral, a person cannot be "bad" for simply being romantically attracted to someone and vise versa.

ASMR/mukbangs

Astrology

Religion

Reader self-inserts

"Cheesy" romantic stuff

Dark fiction/tropes/ships

'Weird' hentai & kinky stuff

I do feel both romantic and sexual attraction, though weakly and rarely. I do experience very high aesthestic attraction to people. Though I am aplatonic and do not experience platonic attraction, I still like hanging out with my friends tho.

Welcome! And hello fellow aplatonic spec person.

greyaroace gang rise up!

2 hours ago, DeltaAro said:

Every community has/had those ... accusations? Problems? Let's say "issues". So the personal question is, does X do more harm than good? Stay and change X, or leave?

Aplatonic is a hot button issue, because contrary to romantic relationships, you have some non-optional relationships, like with your parents. So that's the logic behind it for those aros to fundamentally distinguish aromanticism from aplatonicism and regard the latter as a character defect.

Generally, we live in a time when everybody presents themselves as absolutely, firmly believing the right thing, without even a shred of doubt, and then frame their opinions in a language of victimhood. E. g. just browse J. K. Rowling's Twitter posts.

So there is really serious contradiction, but no accepted meta-theory to settle those disputes. You can use history as a guide. But that's obviously imperfect since we live in a globalized world, while the history of societies differs greatly.

TW: very flame war prone material

  Hide contents

 hijab = a symbol of gender oppression VS. hijab = a symbol of freedom

Also, some issues simply lack any historical precedent. Maybe we should just all be more reticent and less judgmental. OK, I start with this now... This is one of the post that I regret posting, though I have much more material. For a whole book... 😆

You make some great points. Also, I'd love to see like, a history of aplatonic people, but that would be hard as it's not that well known of a label and it could be "debatable" on who would be a prominant aplatonic individual.

greyaroace gang rise!

19 hours ago, hemogoblin said:

Yeah, I think traumatic experiences made it more intense, but I've always been at least on the spectrum of aplatonicism. I still remember the day in high school I learned that my friend group only invited me to about a third of the things they did together because they knew I'd still turn down at least half of those. It's the day I really realized that my social needs are VASTLY different from most other people's. I was just like "y'all seriously spend that much time together!? how!?" Forcing ourselves to try and feel any type of attraction never works.

 

Yeah, I realised I also have completely different social needs. Also adding in that I'm autistic and find it hard to realise certain social cues.

9 hours ago, DeltaAro said:

It never happened to me (or I gladly forgot about it), but many people told us here that they were literally (!) called heartless, robots, psychopaths, serial killers (seriously... wtf). So this explains the overcorrection that aros want to portray themselves as not this way, i. .e very social and interested in other people as friends.

Of course, I don't mean they just pretend, no they (except for a few aplatonic aros who want to fit in) really feel like this. But otherwise they wouldn't feel the pressure to make a big deal out of it.

The aro community is lowkey full of hypocrites, they claim to support everyone on the aro spectrem yet freak out and call anyone whose aplatonic or loveless psychos/mentally ill/crazy and other borderline ableist terms. One of the many reasons why I don't go on aro forums much anymore is due to trash like this. Stop trying to palatable for allos because it ain't going to work and in the end, every aphobe hates us equally.

14 hours ago, hemogoblin said:

Hi!

I'm aplatonic in the way where it's not about having or not having platonic attraction but because friendships are difficult, exhausting, and overwhelming for me. I do have some people online that I have maintained long-term relationships with that, and that I can deal with because we can disappear and re-appear in each other's lives, it's rather casual, there's no offline meet ups...it's overall just a lot less pressure and expectations. I always knew the way I related to the people in my life was different from the way they related to me. Like they could hang out every single day after and outside of school, and I was the one who joined in maybe once every couple of weekends. They all openly said they loved each other and hugged and cuddled each other, whereas Love has always felt like something I was disconnected from and uncomfortable saying, and I was touch averse. I care about them all as people. I knew them well - their ticks and likes and personality, and I respected them for all of that. But my needs around social interaction has always been muuuuuuuuch different from everyone I've interacted with. And for a while, I was pretty shielded from that because I was a loner and the people who tended to make me their friend were people who were alone and lonely and saw me alone and figured I'd be better to make friends with than trying to insert themselves into an established and cliquey group. So they were always very tolerant of my needs for distance (even if not of my disinterest in becoming friends, lol), even though they wanted more. But more and more people seem to be expecting friends to change for them instead of figuring out if they can just fit into each other's lives for who they are.

Oh yeah, I've never seen anyone outside of the aro community identify as aplatonic, much less respect it! And I've never seen anyone outside of the aspec communities yet identify with platonic attraction. I'm sorry you're also struggling with feeling fake and invalid. <3

I'm greatly enjoying about hearing all the different ways aplatonicism can manifest and be experienced as! Thanks so much for speaking up! And thanks to everyone else for joining in as well!

It's super validating to meet other apl arospecs. I felt alone for the longest time because all aros would talk about is how friendship & platonic attraction is "more important" than romance and such. Which made me feel a bit unwanted I slowly realised I was apl, so I tried forcing myself to experience platonic attraction, didn't work lol.

Hello there!

Religion and sprirtual stuff. I like learning about the niche parts, like local Catholic saints or how religious practices vary between different countries.

A lot of my fave girl names are either space themed (Celeste, Luna, Stella, Astrid ect) or Greek mythology themed (Calliope, Athena, Iris, ect). I don't have many boys names I like but I quite like Atlas. Bird themed names are great for unisex names imo, Wren, Birdie, Avery, Jay ect.

29 minutes ago, Storm_leopardcat said:

Huh, which country or region is this, if I may ask?

I'm Australian!

17 hours ago, nonmerci said:

Yes true.

I think it is important to remember that it is not necessarily easier to understand an aro who doesn't date and an aro who does, in particular when this is in representation and not just definitions (everything is harder without examples) : seeing the characters's experiences show how they differ from the "norm", so it is easier to understand what it means.

Also, there are people who will get romance-repulsed aros, and not at all romance-indifferent ans romance-favorable aros or the aro spectrum. But there is also the contrary : people who think it is impossible to be repulsed by romance, etc.

 

Experiences are different but not necessarily more complex.

I've had both allros & aros completely not understand why I date people. In case I have to spell it out for some of youse, I am romantically attracted to people on occasion, and that means I sometimes date people, but only if they are also attracted to me and we have good chemistry. 

Hmm, not really a fan of the idea that me dating people as being labled as "complex", it's actually quite easy to understand, people are just too ignorant to not want to hear it.

3 minutes ago, whatistheromance said:

Any specific examples you can link?

Ugh I cannot find it anymore, but there are posts where it's like "this new tv show has no romance! perfect for us aromantics!" like no?

15 hours ago, whatistheromance said:

Some fuck in a discord server I'm in said "any movie that doesnt have romance in it is aro representation" which is just flat out wrong

You would despise r/aromantic then, they think any piece of fiction with "no romance" is peak representation. I remember being so pissed when Squid Game came out and everyone on the sub praising it for its "no romance" rule when it bullshit because as a person who actually watched it:

1. Spoiler

   1.  One of the supporting characters has a wife and kid, though only shown for a few seconds. It's obvious what he entered the game for.
   2. Two other supporting characters have an enemies-to-fuck buddies relationship, and even an outright hate sex scene. Maybe one could see it as aroallo rep, but it barely passes that. But it makes no sense because if something has to have a "no romance" rule than surely there would be a "no sex" rule to balance it out for the aces?

    

Bless you for this post. I've been begging for romo-arospec representation for years now as I myself am in a romantic relationship and really want to see more characters like me. But I'm scared that if a thing like that becomes true, the aromantic community will either shout over how much they hate it or even attempt to outright cancel it as I've noticed half the community has gone from "we need more aro/non-romantic queer rep" to "no romance should ever be portrayed in fiction ever" regardless of where ever it's well written of if it makes another arospec feel validated.  

1. Anti-Hero - Taylor Swift
2. Don't Call me Angel - Ariana Grande
3. Shinigami Eyes - Grimes
4. Travel - MAMAMOO
5. Arrival - The Alchemist

• I'm in a romantic relationship, we've been together for nearly 5 years
• I listen to love songs
• I read shipping fics, even the "cheesy" stuff I enjoy
• I don't like cuddling but I love kissing 
• I'm aplatonic, don't care too much about friendships