nonmerci

1 minute ago, DogObsessedLianne said:

The latest one for me is that "I'm not allowing someone's love and affection because I have problems with my self esteem". Seriously, someone recently sent me a video about that thinking it would "help" me accept his love ?.

I'm pretty sure ithe video has the opposite effect. ?

2 minutes ago, El011 said:

What I don't like is the assumption that you must feel a certain amount, strength, or frequency of romantic attraction, or you're automatically arospec even if you have no desire to identify that way. Most non-aro people aren't falling madly in love with a new person every week or even every month and don't want to constantly be in a relationship, and the ones that do feel that way should probably get therapy because it sounds like attachment or abandonment issues.

I know non-aro people who didn't start dating until college or who prefer to take it slow or who only want to start dating when they meet someone they can see themselves marrying or who choose to prioritize other things over relationships.

As I said, it is to the grey person to decide if they condiser themself allo or aro. People who don't want to identify as aro don't have too, of course!

However, I don't think romantic attraction is falling madly in love every week (or there would be no difference between having a crush and being in love). ALso, often see the "attraction is not the same for all allos, there is no norm". But to take the example of @Queasy_Attention with colors, there is yellow, green, blue, etc, on a spectrum. And there is a lot of different blue. Some are even close to green. But at the end of the day, they still share some thing in common : they are all blue. That's the same things with allo people. They may be all different, not feel attraction in the same way, and that's ok because we never say they did. It doesn't change the fact that they are all allo in the end.

And I think saying to grey person who identified on the aro spectrum because, I don't know, they had felt attraction only ten times in their entire life,.. To tell that person that there is no difference with an allo people because "they don't fall in love every week" doesn't makes sense for me. The person probably identify like that because they feel a huge difference betwee their experience and the experience of people who feel romantic attraction daily. Or because they feel alienated by allo people. And we should not erase that.

Again, it is up to the person to decide.

6 minutes ago, Neon Green Packing Peanut said:

Not just puberty, this has been a thing for me since 3rd grade at the latest...

I think @Queasy_Attention was talking about the books. And indeed, there can be sometimes romantic connotation in some bookds for young children, but the romance becomes more important when the books are adressed to teens.

2 hours ago, El011 said:

How do we know, though? We can't read minds, we don't know how other people feel and can't assume they fit into a certain box just because they don't share our identity. And some things associated with aromanticism are slowly becoming more socially acceptable, like preferring friends with benefits or not wanting to get married or wanting to prioritize other things over romance. Wanting or feeling those things doesn't automatically make you aro.

I think this logic is flawed because, in that sense, what is the purpose of the word aromantic too? If we can't read minds, how can we know that alloromantic does feel romantic attraction and not just pretend? And on the other hand, that aromantic people don't feel it and are not just pretending because they are single (or not even single, some can be in couples too for their own reasons).

I think we can all see that a norm exists. Feeling attraction when we see a pretty person, being excited by certain things... We can see the norm everywhere and allo people don't seem to say it is false. And if someone tells me that they experience attraction like, once in a week, or once in a month, I can see that this person is not in the norm.

I think it won't solve anything to answering erasure by erasure, you know what I mean?

Grey area is not allo or aro per se. Some people consider themselves allo, others consider themselves aro. And we shouldn't say that one of them is wrong, because it depends to their personal experience of attraction. I think it is up to the person to define which group they feels closer to.

Also, I really don't see how saying that aro and ace are spectrum is watering them down? How could it do them wrong? I can get why a grey person would feel upset if they consider themselves allo. But alloromantic who are in the "norm"? That's not their role to decide where a person fits.

@cyancatthat's sad! Biological or adopted, no difference, they are their parent's children.

Found family is also one of my favorite trope.

Does Ready or not count? A woman get married and bam! everybody wants to kill her in a murderous hide and seek game.

Here's the trailer :

And to quote the end of the movie : https://i.pinimg.com/originals/db/fe/e8/dbfee8d0c6bde34ee7fe3908fceb26bf.jpg 

Marriage is dangerous.

I discovered when I was 23. (can't believe it's been three years already!)

3 hours ago, Skylord said:

Biracial here!! Hispanic and Caucasian, but apparently I don't look it unless I sit in the sun for a while, or if I'm compared to my family, since I don't really look like any of them (I look more like my biological dad, who I tell no one about.) 

Same here (except Black and Caucasian). My brother have a dark skin however. So I like to say, as he is older, that he is a selfish guy who took all the color and left nothing for me.

I'm aroace and since I'm a kid I said I wanted 3 kids. Now only one would be good already.

I thought about sperm donation too but this being legal for single woman is only in discussion in my country (they debate to make it legal for lesbian couple and the debates were extended to single women). I don't really want to justify myself all the time, my family is not really open about that (create a child without a father, etc). Don't want to fight them.

However I think I may adopt someday.

I like to think even if I don't experience it, I kinda understand it, as a concept, if you see what I mean.

I want to write books and there is some romance in it, so a better understanding would be useful for me. Just so the last time I describe a kiss I don't have to Google it to know what it's supposed to feel like and why people like it, you see? (Yeah, that actually happened).

Can't really help because my parents are the only one I am scared to come out.

11 hours ago, Elle28 said:

. I even thought of pasting up pride flags all over my room and waiting for them to notice and be too uncomfortable to say anything and be forced to accept it, but again that's not it.

I thought about something like this, by an explicit aro shirt and wear it on Valentine's day.

Maybe the best is to "prepare the field" as we say in French, by saying things that implied you will lever get married before coming out officially. 

Tired  

I may adopt someday too. Sadly I think it is harder for a single woman (at least I'm not a single man, I'm pretty sure it is even harder).

9 hours ago, Blake said:

Will watch it then. Was reluctant because of fanfic I read about it year ago...needless to say fanfic involved lots of romance and other things. Also I heard it was cut of budget and ended earlier than expected so was

I'm not sure it was cut earlier but the ending was kinda open and maybe not that satisfying (in general the first 3 seasons are good, season 4 and 5 are less good), so a lot of fans expected a season 6 to fix this. I'm not surprised about the romance part : the amount of youtube videos about Merlin and Arthur being a couple (though they aren't in the show)... a lot of people ship them. And in general, I think people love romance in their fanfictions.

There is a bit of romance in the show of course, but not for the main character.

9 hours ago, Blake said:

And yeah, finding boring the same line of romance. hate to love. And I think like you, the "no isn't no" is a very problematic thing I am watching more and more. It lines on a very social theme that consent can be changed and nothing is final. That you can keep nagging until the opinion of the person changes. It perpetuates a social and psychological problem and it can end in violence at some cases, which is scary for me.

Yeah that's what bother me. This is a vey dangerous thought that leads to harrassment, or worse.

In fact, isn"t there just a problem with the current orientation system? What I get from this discussion is that people are trying to push non-binary people into a system that is meant to be binary. (chich is what you was saying @cyancat if I understood). The current system was made, at first about sex rather gender I guess, and then for only two : man or woman. It's lik, one divided the world between people who like black chocolate, people who like white chocolat, people who like both or any... and suddenly people decided to include the existence of milky chocolate and they don't know how because there is no place for people who like it in the categories. (hum, I'm not sure of this comparison, just remember that my point is it can't work)

The only solution would probably to change the categories, but to create what? And with what criteria? In particular as the problem is that we can only assumed someone gender, we never know for sure except if the person tell us. Maybe, by defining it by gender expression rather than gender identity?

Just a suggestion. I'm aroace and cisgender so I should probably not talk about all this stuff, sorry. I'm just trying to understand better all of this.

2 hours ago, Blake said:

I agree with most of here. It is the repetitiveness and just so similar stories that gets to me. Almost all relationships in movies and series are romantic. I crave for a platonic relationship, one that shows how much the character cares for each other without an ulterior motive. If I want to befriend you is to have a great time with you. Go eat, watch dumb things together and just have a good time, no kisses, no sex, no development from "I don't feel anything for you" to "Oh, i guess I did had feelings for you". Idk how can it be so hard to show friendship without romance, or people of opposite sex having a great relationship without having having feelings for each other.

I like to recommand the British show Merlin about that. Of course the fandom romanticize it, but Merlin and Arthur never dated in the show but they have a very funny friendship and a strong bound, always there for each other. (though they have the love/hate relationship and began by disliking each other before learning to know themselves better, I think that's part of the reason the fandom like to ship them)

Also Merlin never dated or show interest for that so he is totally aro for me. (and I think this is the only show I can think about where the main character has zero love interest... he just wants to protect his friends and Camelot, no need for romance)

Aso I think this is totally true that most of the romance begins like that. They don't like each other (sometimes hate each other), they spend time together and immediately they start having feeling for each other. As if it was that easy to make someone change their mind. I think it add a lot to the "no isn't no" idea. Either this trope, or immediately the two person involved things the other is "the one" (but it will still take an eternity for them to be together because otherwise, it would end too soon).

I thought about having kids (I wanted three, two girls and a boy), but funny enough, I never thought about marriage (and even less about the husband... except maybe to think about genetics, like "he should have blue eyes and red hair because I like blue eyes end red hair so it will be nice if my chilldren get a chance to have them too").

Later I sometimes thought about the dress, the cake and the meal for the wedding, but that's it. And that's because the dresses are cool and I love to eat, not because I actually wanted a husband (which was completely absent).

I'll never say this enough, but even if Will ends up not being aromantic, he will forever be an aromantic icon.

(But he better be aromantic because I'm not sure I could recover if he isn't)

Don't know if I said it before but Cinderella from the musical/movie Into the Woods. She doesn't seem to love the Prince, but the castle's life.

In the song A very nice prince, she is just your fellow aromantic trying to talk about an amazing festival, but is constantly annoyed by her allo friend who wants to talk about the Prince instead.

Thanks for clarifying. I understand better now.

@Finn I may say stupid things because I don't understand a lot of things about attraction and gender, but isn't what you describe true for any gender? We can't know a person's gender for sûre except if we ask. We can think someone is a woman but they are non-binary, or even think he other way around, why not.

And also, if we say that a person who felt attraction for people who happened to be women and non-binary, isn't it denying the non-binary identity to say that such a person is only attracted to women and non-binary people (even if the non-binary person are woman aligned as you said)?

Just asking, I don't understand a lot about all of these questions and I am very confused right now.

That's like the serie You (inspired by a book; a weird mix of romance and thriller).

In the show, we follow Joe who is a complete psychopath and do everyting in the name of love. In this cas, I didn't find it boring (at least the first season), because we really enter his logic which is completely deranged and it's kinda fascinating how they managed to do that : making you enter the characterr's logic and at the same time dismissing it. Though we follow him, the show clearly portray him as a psycho. He does awful things in the name of "love", and by awful things I mean it begins with stalking and end with murder. It shows how someone who can seem perfectly normal and as the ideal boyfriend can in fact be crazy.

BUT there are people who will tell you that Joe is the good guy! That the girl doesn't appreciate him enough and all the things he does, and that he is so romantic. And yes, for their defense we could say that the show plays with the lines (Joe never kill a likeable character and is sweet with his neighboor), but at the end of the day, the guy lies, manipulates, stalks, kidnaps, and kills people. (major spoiler)

How is that romantic?

People can be really blind when it comes to romance.

On 11/12/2020 at 6:17 AM, eatingcroutons said:

Passengers. I think this article says it well: "It’s a story about a woman inexplicably falling in love with a stalker who ruined her life. And for some reason, we’re meant to root for this relationship." Marketed as a love story, described as a love story by the director, actually fucked-up beyond belief.

True! I kinda enjoyed the movie but the reason why she stays with him in the end is mysterious to me. I get why the guy wakes her up (even without the romance part, being alone with no hope, one could become crazy), but :

-it was very selfish for him and he has to face no bad consequences for that

-no matter the reason I would never forgive the person who do that

-he ruined her whole life! She was promised to do interesting things and instead she'll be stuck in a vessel her entre life with just that guy

-she choses to stay with him, she could have gone back... are you telling me that saying with the guy who stays her life is more interesting that wakes up in the future (or I don't really remember what they were doing, but it seems more interesting)? The trope "love is more important than anything else" is annoying but with a guy that lies the whole movie and ruins her ambitions and life, that's even worse

-it is treated as a happy ending!

Never really thought about it before but that's very unhealthy.

I don't like romance when it is abusive or treated as "all the rest doesn't matter now". And also things like "romance requires sacrifices", in particular if the sacrifices are one-sided. One of the things I hate the most : when one of the character says clearly they are not interesting, but the other kept pushing until the first character realizes he is the one (I say "he" because usually, it is the man who flirt with the woman). This is harrassment, not love!

But I like romance when the people involved grow together, when people have thing in common that justifies the relationship, and when it is useful to the plot (as a motivation for characters for instance).

I also love one-sided romance. And the phase before people get together. Maybe because I am not interesting a lot to see people doing stuff they do when they are a couple.

True. Right now they start Christmas movies, which are mostly romance Christmas movies, and it's like watching the same movie in different places and different characters.