nonmerci

12 hours ago, Queen of Spades said:

Dating a person doesn't necessarily mean you're also in a romantic relationship with them, right? Isn't it just like hanging out in order to get to know them better? I

Oh yes, I always forget dating in France and in the USA is different. Except the first (romantic) dates in France, it is not likely that you are dating someone if not in a romantic relationship. While in the USA if I get it, it is more common to have multiple dates and only become a romantic couple after a big talk about it. Which confuses me a lot.

12 hours ago, Queen of Spades said:

I mean, if you truly loved the person you've just broken up with, can you really come to love someone new in a matter of weeks, or even days? Aren't you supposed to be devastated? 

I think it depends. If you are the one who broke up, I don't think it's logical to be devasted because the relationship probably didn't work for you, so break-up was the logical thing to do. It is different if you are not the one you broke-up I guess.

I don't think people in romantic relationship are necessarily in love, or the "I love you" thing is ridiculous. They feel romantic attraction yes, but romantic love? I'm not sure.

Then I also think that some people are more in love with the idea of being in a romantic relationship than with their romantic partner. Some people have difficulties to live without a romantic relationship, which can explain why these relationships don't last.

6 hours ago, Queen of Spades said:

We are humans and sex is a need.

I would not say it that way (this way, it's like saying asexuals are not human... that's probably not what you meant, but it hurt a bit).

6 hours ago, Queen of Spades said:

I know a woman who throughout one year had no less than 4 boyfriends. It is these kind of people that one should be aware of. It is clear that such people are shallow if they are able to switch their (self-proclaimed) love from one person to another this quickly. It means they don't really know what they want, and if you risk dating them, it'll only be a matter of time (1-2 years at best) until they dump you, too. 

I think it all depends on the person. If the person they date know from the start they are for short-time relationship, then everything is clear and I don't think it's a bad thing, just their way of being. If the partner complain about that even if he/she/they were told from the start, for me the one to blame is the partner, not the one who explained it in the first place.

Now, if the person didn't say anything, it all depends on the intentions : did this person only wants to have fun for a few times with a romantic partner, or was the investissment in the relationship serious? If the person played with the other feelings, that's not ok. But otherwise, I think people can't really control their feelings, and maybe they are not aware of it and always think the next one will be "the one". Sometimes they experiment, I guess dating is a way to know if you get along or fall in love with the person in this case; and if not, well, it's logical to stop the relationship.

Besides, I'm not sure that a relationship is meaningfull because it's long. The fact that it didn't last doesn't invalid the feelings involved in the first place, in my opinion.

Don't get me wrong, I get when you're coming from. That's not fair that someone who has multiple sexual relationships is seen as a slut, immature, and everything else, when having multiple romantic relationships is not demonized, even if it is not different. However, I don't think that critcizing people with short romantic relationship is the solution. The best would be that none of this situation is seen as wrong, as long as the people involved are clear about their needs.

That's the difference between attraction and love. I can't realy explain as the line is a bit confused for me, but romantic love is more intense I guess. When someone has a crush, it is not in love yet, though it can lead to that if they explore this relationship That's how I see it : a crush grows into romantic love. That's why the "I love you" thing is such a big deal (wich confused me for a long time).

Maybe, it's a bit like the difference between thinking someone is nice and it would be good to be friend with, and actually be friend with this person.

Can't speak for allosexual of course, but I can say to you that sexual attraction and arousal are different things. I suppose there can be arousal when sexually attracted, but I'm not sure you have toi,  and you can just have that physical reaction without any desire to have sex.

True, a big fan of fantasy here.

TPBM prefers to watch movies rather than series.

EI011 received a warning for offensive or bigoted content. This behavior has been repetitive and did not cease after official moderator warning. Since this is his third active warning, he is now permanently banned. We don't think it is productive to continue this conversation, in particular now that the one who started it is not here anymore, so we will keep the thread locked.

22 minutes ago, HotRamen said:

sexual repulsion can also fluctuate. I also feel some fluctuation in that area. Nowadays I find myself to be on the favorable side but sometimes I’m indifferent and occasionally I’m repulsed. it can also appear towards different things, like I’m not really repulsed if it’s a scene in a comic or a book, but if it’s a tv show then I get very uncomfortable. when friends talk about it around me I tend to feel indifferent.

Thanks! That's very helpful, it answers a problem that I had. I have two scenes right now where this is relevant : a conversation when this is a discussion (he has a little brother not aware of his asexuality and in need of advice, I let you imagine), and one when the exposition to sexuality is more direct. He was not comfortable with his brother's questions but it is nothing compare to the other situation. It's good to know that sexual repulsion can fluctuate according to the situation.

Thank you all for your responses, it was helpful.

On 12/16/2020 at 3:49 AM, El011 said:

It's gonna be different for everyone but for me it does. Not necessarily consistently with my romantic attraction, like I haven't had a crush in a few years but i still get random days when i think a romantic relationship sounds amazing even though there's no one I'd actually want to do it with right now or in the immediate future.

Thanks! So I'm going to keep his sexual repulsion.I may just give it a less intense, I don't know, I didn't imagine it would be so affected at first. But I think it could be a good way to do "show don't tell" in regard to his sexual orientation, even if of course not all asexual are sex-repulsed.

On 12/16/2020 at 12:01 PM, aro_elise said:

i can't give any insight into an aceflux experience besides to say that becoming not-attracted to a person or to people in general when you recently were does not match my allosexual experience. 

Thanks! So it may be consistent. I just wanted to know if his sexual orientation fits the label, but anyway I don't say the label (in a medieval universe he doesn't have the word), so knowing that it's not an allosexual experience is already useful.

On 12/19/2020 at 11:22 PM, DeltaV said:

As fleeting thoughts or fantasies I don't think it's rare to happen five times a day, if we take the studies about it seriously. It's an altogether different thing to actually want WANT WANT it, wholeheartedly. Or to experience really strong sexual attraction, so that it's the dominant feeling at a moment.

On 12/16/2020 at 12:01 PM, aro_elise said:

i wonder whether you might be thinking more of sex drive?  like if i see a hot guy, yes, i pretty much "want to bone" him, but not necessarily at that exact moment lol like i'm not about to just go up to him and try my luck, i just think 'nice' and move on.  not 5 people a day, no--i don't think 'regularly' means that often.  and like when i'm with my friend with benefits, i don't want to have sex all the time of course but i don't stop being attracted to him when we're just hanging out, or when we're not together. 

Thanks for that too! I also planed a scene with an allosexual explaining to an asexual what is sexual attraction, and that will be very helpful.

Please, keep it civile.

You apparantly don't know that but some people were actually raped because of their asexuality, by people who say they will cure them like that. And I think it is disrespectful to say it is just misogyny. In particular for the victime who are men.

And of course it is nothing compare to conversion therapy, but it is very difficult for an asexual or an aromantic to find a therapist, because most of the time asexuality and aromanticism is seen as a symptom of a pathology or of neurodivergency, and so the therapist will try to change that.

Now, do gay and bi people have it worse than aro and ace? Yes they are. But pretending that aro and aces face nothing, no real problem, no negation of their identity, or that it has another cause than acephobia or arophobia... that is simply not true. Maybe you didn't have to face it, fine for you, but it's not the case for everyone. You can find plenty of examples of negationism just here on this website.

1 hour ago, El011 said:

But how can you be oppressed for the exact same thing you're privileged for?

Because life is not black and white. It all depends on situation.

For instance, I am ace. For this reason, I am not priviledged compare to a heterosexual for instance... except if this an aromantic heterosexual. Because in this case aro allo face problems that I,  as an asexual, will never face (like slut shaming, impossibility to find a meaningful sexual relationship that will fulfil my need...). You also can find a lot of testimony about the ace community being offensive to and ease the aro (allo) experience.

And that the same thing for the LGBT. Gay people are oppressed because of heteronormativity. Aro and ace because of amatonormativity. This is different thing. In terms of heteronormativity,  being aro and ace is and advantage compare to being gay. But in terms of amatonormativity, this is the contrary. It all depends on context. And that's what you can find acephobic gay people, the same way you can find homophobic asexual. Because both group find societal problems who have not the same origins, and so depending in the context, one or the other applies.

Personally I identify as greyro for a few months or maybe a year before identify as aro. My case was different (I had felt romantic attraction once and I thought I may have not very intense crushes because I chosed cute guys and decided "why not have a crush on them?"). It helps me to accept my aro identity, because saying that I felt not intense and not often romantic attraction  was less scary than saying I felt none, at all. Then when I made peace with the idea, I naturally stop thinking myself as grey and say I was aromantic.

6 hours ago, Guest - aro? said:

It just seems a lot less risky to regard myself internally as aro than to let it be known to others when I can't prove it's true.

I think it may be even harder to prove you are greyro, because greyro is less likely to be seen as a true label. They face even more negationist comments I think, because people think it doesn't exist, that it doesn't different from allo experienc, etc. So it is more risky to have people who say that you are just looking for attention with this label. This is sad but this is what I see people say.

People who refuse to understand will be hard to convince but there are some supportive people in this world.

On 12/23/2020 at 6:17 PM, Guest Bluebird said:

After I figured out that I was aro, we had the sex ed unit in health class. That class is the worst thing for everyone, but it was even worse for me. The lack of mention of lgbt made it soo much worse, and all the videos and textbooks are all like , "everyone wants romantic relationships". But the moment I remember the most is when our teacher asked the class what we liked in a romantic partner and we had to go around the room and answer. When she got to me I just shrugged. She then insisted "you must have something." Once again, I just shrugged. Then we had to write it up on the whiteboard and of course didn't know what to write, a whole mess f il called with anxiety. I wanted to honestly run out of the classroom in that moment. It's moments like that one where you really hate being aro and wish that you could just be like everyone else.

That's sad. They should not do that, in particular now that we know everybody don't want a straight relationship. It forces kids to suffer in silence, or to come out and educate people so to suffer at loud. Not great.

I only have one squish in my life I think and it was like @hermi1e described. As a crush instead I wanted to be friends, not to date. Very weird. I just look at that girl and felt a urge to befriend her.

It was the only time, usually I don't get squishes.

Sorry you had to hear that.

I can be wrong but I think in this context it was more "she misses something if she doesn't date you" rather than "if she doesn't date women". Which is still confusing. We can have meaningful relationship with people without dating them!

When someone says that, I try to think about analogy. I do think that people who don't love Harry Potter (books or movies not the character ha ha) are missing something. Are they less than me for that? No they are not. And they probably have other interests that I don't have and think I'm missing something too.

Same with romance. Maybe we are missing something? Maybe. But we are not lacking of something that would make us more human. We are not less for that. We just have others focuses and this alright.

That's what I'd say when people think my life is miserable  because of aromanticism.

5 hours ago, Black Sesame said:

He seemed quite taken aback by this concept. For him we are just making things too complicated, after all, he himself is "simply hetero" (that's what he said) and he grew up during a time period where there was hardly any positive awareness for people who weren't. That's why he can't keep up with the differentiation of gender identity, sexual and romantic orientation. So, I guess it's not the right time yet to break the jar

Remind me when I talk about asexuality with my mother. I don't know how to translate her reaction in English but it means "another new concept probably useless that this modern society created". And she is the open-minded one (well, she has an "as long as they are happy this way" view, which is better than my dad who screams "pédé" (insulting French word for homosexual) everytime a homosexual is on TV...) ! I think there is a gap of generation too. I am always more at ease to talk about that with people my age because I know that they were educated about LGBT+, though not about aromanticism necessarily. Well, not all of them, but a lot more than before.

5 hours ago, Black Sesame said:

I do have to say that I know my family only wants what they think is best for me. It's just that they sometimes end up measuring that by standards stipulated by our society, which ends up failing its purpose...

Same for me. I know that want the best, but we don't have the same definition of what is best. Just like when my father criticize me for being a teacher because I was good at school and look for a job with a better pay. Two different opinions of what makes me happy or not.

I'm 26 too.

My parents are not as annoying (pardon me I couldn't find a better word), but it's clear that they are frustrated that neither me or my brother have never dated (my brother is 30, don't know if he is aro or not, he says he doesn't see the point of having a girlfriend if they always fight... yeah my parents fight a lot).

My father always complained about the fact we are not dating, in particular everytime my brother has a new job he asks if there is women who have the same age as him, if they like the same things as him... Lucky me, he doesn't do that with me... for now at least.

Recently (I'd say for a year), he complains frequently about him not getting grantchildren soon. Sometimes I say that I am happy alone and he says things like "but you say since you are a kid that you want 3 children" (didn't try to explain the husband was optional in this scenario, and that when I was a kid I also wanted a hors and I change my mind).

My mother try to be supportive I guess. She must think we are homosexual because she says things like "I don't mind if you date a person of the same sex, it's better than being alone". Of course she is not supportive at all and completely misses the truth.

That's kind of annoying because I'd like to be out, but I know they won't understand and I don't want to fight. So I am just dealing with that and get angry in silence.

Do you know the label wtfromantic/quoiromantic? Only you can decide your label, but your confusion about the concept of romantic attraction made me think about this one.

I can't really tell you what romantic attraction is I don't feel it. People seem to describe it as the desire to date someone, thinking about them all the time, having butterflies in the stomach... But in my opinion, romantic attraction is almost impossible to describe because we always do it by giving signs that the attraction is there, and that signs can be interpreted differently. So I think the best is to read people talk about their attraction and see if it fits your experience or not.

For me, the most difficult is that this is not well-known. Things get better I think, but a lot of people still don't know what it is. So to coming out to my parents for instance, saying "I'm aromantic" is not nough, I should explain what it means, and probably face their disbelief that it is actually a thing and that I am happy that way. (I'm pretty sure my mother must think I'm a lesbian because she says to my homophobic dad "that's not a problem if your children are homosexual if it makes them happy, and that's better than staying alone".. which of course, is not helping me to come out).

19 hours ago, Venuxxx said:

Because, from the moment I discover that they want to have something more than just friendship I end up alienating them and I end up losing their friendship. And sometimes I fell like what I fell is always insufficient, that people always expect and deserve more than I can fell for them.

Friendship is already beautiful and meaningful in itself. That's sad some people don't realize that.

19 minutes ago, Guest - aro? said:

One of the things I hear people talking about a lot on here is that they didn't understand romantic attraction and acted accordingly, but I don't know if this fits me. Whenever I would, say, watch some romantic movie with a friend, I wouldn't love it but I wouldn't hate it? I just viewed it as something different, something somewhat fictional (dramatized for effect), something that didn't involve me. 

Personally, I do enjoy romance in fiction (of written well, bit like everything I watch if I can say). A lot of aros don't like it yes, because they can't relate I guess (if not repulsed), but that's not an obligation to identify as aro. ?

16 hours ago, roboticanary said:

p.s. if you argue for 'all i want for christmas is you' I will reach through your computer screen and set fire to your lungs

Lol. Actually I like the rythm of the song and Mariah Carey's voice, but I do admit the lyrics do not sweet my aro side.

I like "Vive le vent" (French version of Jingle bells) and "Petit Papa Noël". For both I mainly know the chorus only, but they are so iconic in France, we learned them when we are young, that's the first thing I think about when someone says "Christmas song".

I heard Feliz Navidad and I thought it was a good song!

Hi everyone!

So, in a book I am writing, one of the character has a fluide sexuality : sometimes he is "fully" asexual, sometimes on the grey area. I think it is the label aceflux in this case. A scene I just wrote made me wonder some things :

1) Is it common for grey people to be sex repulsed? I was wondering if this was possible as my character can sometimes feel sexual attraction though not in an intense way, so it could change how he feels about change I guess.

2) Does sexual repulsion can fluctuate the same way sexual attraction  fluctuate?

3) For what I read, for some aceflux sexual attraction can be something one day and another the next day. Now for my character, the fluctuation takes more time, like period that can last during week.  Is it consistent?

Thanks for your answers.

That shirt is ICONIC.

False. Well, it depends on the meaning of the term, but if we talk about pantin,  sculpture etc, I'm the kind of people who get bored in museums.

TPBM loves Christmas time.

Fantasy

Mort was the first I read. Was fun and no problem to understand.

I also read a book he wrote but not in his usual universe : the nome trilogy. Kind of a religious parody.

And of course Good Omens that he wrote with Neil Gaiman.

Vampire.