NullVector

On 19/11/2017 at 10:37 AM, Holmbo said:

However, the other day she brought up that she doesn't believe the earth moves around the sun because the Quran says the sun moves around the earth. I couldn't help to respond that it's not true

It's not quite as cut-and-dried as "the Earth moves around the Sun and that's that!" I think about the worst you can say about a geocentric model (vs. a heliocentric one) is that it's a perverse coordinate system to use in a rotating system where most of the mass is in the sun. It makes the calculations harder. But my understanding is that it's not "wrong" as such. This article goes into more detail.

Martial arts edition:

36th Chamber of Bacon

Bacon in the Eagle's Shadow

The Legend of Drunken Bacon

Way of the Bacon

Crouching Tiger, Hidden Bacon

Ong Bacon

4 hours ago, Lex Barringer said:

Representing is just a boastful way to get in peoples' faces about our orientation, that doesn't actually help us, rather it creates more trouble for us down the line. I look at it as immaturity, in the same light and to the tune of Aromantic Pride parades. I don't feel the need to toot my horn for being aromantic; it just is.

Hmm. You got me thinking about "representation". What is it? Is it needed? Etc. Does it make sense to be "proud" of being aromantic? Perhaps not. I didn't put any effort into "achieving" it, after all. It's an orientation, something innate, as I understand it. I'm not "proud" of having brown eyes, for example.

I still think aromantic representation can be helpful, but it probably works best when it's as a "by the way..." rather than a "look at me!" statement. What do I mean by that? I admire people for certain talents or qualities that they've worked hard to cultivate. The admiration stems from wanting to cultivate similar things within myself. So it's more an admiration of something the person has done or become, rather than something the person is innately. But I think it helps here to have acknowledgment within popular culture (and just culture in general) that aromantics are equally capable of cultivating worthy human qualities. Equally valid as humans. This is where "by the way..." statements can help, I think. For example: "I make beautiful art, look! (by the way, I'm aromantic)"; "I'm involved in this really cool research project, look! (by the way, I'm aromantic)". Etc. Perhaps that's all this thread is about? Identifying people who are likable for various reasons (personality, achievements, whatever) but just happen to be aromantic? So that everyone can go "oh, right, aromantics are just people like me too".

On 15/05/2017 at 3:19 PM, SamwiseLovesLife said:

Lauren prefers to be seen as a girl than woman

I just watched some and the first 30 seconds of her GIRL, NOT WOMAN video is perfection 

4 minutes ago, Untamed Heart said:

Batman v Bacon

This would have to be a mockumentary about an obese, retired batman battling against a crippling food addiction 

1 minute ago, Untamed Heart said:

Harry Potter and the Chamber of Bacon

That one was already baconed earlier, by @Zemaddog 

Fantastic Bacon and Where To Find It

Also, I just noticed that on the food emojis, no bacon is provided  This shocking oversight must be remedied in the site suggestions thread posthaste!

Horror edition, part 2:

Night of the Living Bacon

Attack of the 50 Foot Bacon

The Bacon Chainsaw Massacre

Bacon Without a Face

The Bacon Rides Out

Curse of the Bacon

1 hour ago, time-is-ticking said:

• Straight by default
• Bad at being straight
• Not interested in dating
• Not interested in dating yet because of being immature, "I'll just try again in a few years, I'm still young"

Haha. YES.

And for me the "I'll just try again in a few years, I'm still young" excuse/procrastination has lasted into my 30s  (unfortunately I'm not ace. oh well)

@DeltaV Best song from Halfaxa? I've had this stuck in my head all day! 

6 hours ago, Apathetic Echidna said:

One I forgot to mention before is dancing. I don't particularly think of dancing as romantic, probably because when I was prepubescent I did years of modern dance training and took formal dancing lessons. Dancing with someone else strengthens a connection, be it friendship or sexual........so I tend to only dance with people I already like

I tried some salsa classes a while back. I quite enjoyed them, but one thing that bothered me was that it was extremely heteronormative - traditional male and female gender roles were very much built into the way you could/should express yourself during the dances. Men 'lead', women 'follow', the hand gestures, the way of moving, etc. Are the modern dance styles you did like that as well, or is freedom of expression outside of the heteronormative 'box' more encouraged there?  

1 hour ago, Holmbo said:

Ex machina

Haha, nice

On 28/09/2017 at 9:02 PM, James said:

I'd describe it as pressure. When someone tries to get emotionally close to me, it hurts in a bad way, like my lungs are being slowly crushed. I get a fight-or-flight response as I think of ways to escape

It has been like that for me as well sometimes. I find it really interesting how all the metaphors I've heard people on this site use to describe the experience of romance repulsion are kind of thematically similar. Drowning; suffocation; crushing (lol, that last one is a little ironic isn't it? ) And definitely 'fight-or-flight' can kick in for me too.

@Ryan I guess it can seem pretty "alien" if you don't experience anything like the above, but it's really cool that you're making some effort to understand it intellectually  Spread the word! 

1 hour ago, DeltaV said:

You experience that you're male? Like subjectively, internally…? So how does that feel like?

Hah, fair enough. I guess all I meant was that I don't experience any internal conflict between my male anatomy and my internal experience or conception of 'self' (which some people do and it might even motivate them to modify their sexual anatomy through surgery). So in that sense, I'm happy enough to accept the designation of 'male'. But, yeah, I don't really think about it much either!

Wonder what some of our trans or agender folks make of this? 

1 hour ago, James said:

Gender, sexuality, and romance are all easily tangible subjects.

Hmm. I personally find the concept of romance to be a lot less "tangible" than either sexual orientation or gender identity. But I wonder if that's just because I don't really experience romantic attraction, whereas I do very clearly experience my gender identity (male) and sexual attraction (to women) (hehe, I remember descibing the latter to @pastelprincess in her welcome thread and how she replied )

So how are you defining romance here? As feeling a strong urge towards engaging in long-term monogamous pair-bonding and life-merging behaviors? Please go right ahead and bombard us with the science behind this 

16 hours ago, DeltaV said:

Hand-holding doesn't seem sexual to me, though. More like mostly romantic and sometimes platonic.

Linked palms during some of the more "interesting" positions could seem sexual  But I take your general point. In the west, it's seen as mostly romantic. Although I understand that in India it's much more seen as a sign of platonic affection between male friends, so these things aren't culturally universal.

16 hours ago, DeltaV said:

Better yet, to experience it in completely non-romantic contexts.

Yes, I think that would probably be the preferred form of "therapy" for me 

16 hours ago, DeltaV said:

For all the supposed LOVE, at least in the early phase, romance seems like missionary activity by Scientology²: lots of careful maneuvering and emotional manipulation with the goal of “absorbing” you. Like, when a friend asked me “Should I tell my girlfriend <dark secret X>?” … I'm just thinking: “Well, you already told me! If you love her sooooo much why is this still a question?!? ”

Haha, yes, I love the way you've put this. Observing all of that initial "maneuvering" and "manipulation" (and feeling repulsed by it) lead me to have the thought: "I'd probably make a pretty good romantic partner, if I could just fast-forward past the early stages of the relationship somehow, which seems to often involve a lot of game-playing and economical truth-telling " (as in, I'd basically be fine once the initial "romance" was over with!  which makes a lot more sense to me now).

To put the "strategy" that some allo-romantics seem to intuitively follow here in rather brutal economistic terms, it's something like: "Get them sufficiently invested in this joint venture such that Sunk Cost Fallacy kicks in and takes care of any emotional fallout once I actually start to tell the truth about myself"*

*Note for any allo-romantic allies reading this:  it's again "phrased in a slightly hyperbolic way" as @DeltaV put it earlier! I'm certainly not meaning to imply that most or even a significant fraction of allo-romantics actually behave like this. It's a negative stereotype that probably only applies well to a small subset of allo-romantics. Similar to the negative stereotype that (sexual) aromantics would likely mislead allo-romantics about being interested in "more" than "just" sex in order to get the other person to agree to have sex with them in the first place. I guess all types of human (allo-romantics, aromantics, etc.) are capable of manipulative behaviors, it's just that how it manifests in terms of concrete actions would vary depending on the context of what they are trying to achieve through the manipulation.

40 minutes ago, Mark said:

I don't always find it "fine" if others just want romance. It can make it impossible for me to have much to do with people I like.

Right. I meant "fine" in the context of not feeling repulsed. But in other contexts, yeah, not so fine! I don't like the "exclusive" aspects of romance (particularly romantic couples). Just one example of this: I have a female friend and back at university we used to have protracted hugs/cuddles. It was nice. Now she has a husband and I don't know if this is still "allowed". This sort of thing doesn't trigger any repulsion though. I just find it a bit sad. Then there's also the standard "I'm in a couple now so now I'm going to ignore you and do everything as a couple rather than a group" romantic trope. Which also "can make it impossible for me to have much to do with people I like."

40 minutes ago, Mark said:

Also seen people putting themselves through awful things trying to find "the one"

Yes. But understandable, I suppose, when there is a lot of cultural messaging that this is the only way to be happy.

Like a lot of people have already said here, I'm basically fine with romance in the abstract, but get squicked out by just the idea of doing it to somebody, or having it done to me.

E.g. I think it's quite cute when my parents (married 30+ years) hold hands, but the thought of someone doing this with ME kinda squicks me out. Same with kissing. Not sex though. That seems like it would be fun to try  I don't know why it is that my brain has categorised hand-holding and kissing as "romantic" and sex as "sexual"  As they can all be some combination of the two... 

I think the underlying reason for my repulsion is that "romance" for me is associated with loss of an autonomous identity. So behaviours that my brain flags (rightly or wrongly) as "romantic" trigger my repulsion due to that underlying fear of becoming "merged" with another person and losing my separate identity. That's also, I think, why it only bothers me when directed at ME. If others want to "lose themselves in another", well fine, whatever makes them happy I guess, nothing to do with me, why should I care!  But if they want ME to "lose myself" then no thank you! Romance Repulsion TRIGGERED 

The album is called Aromanticism. Nice 

He sounds like an intersting person too. Quoting from the interview you linked:

I think that romance is very obviously a political tool, and a capitalist device. I’ve even thought recently, it’s quite good for the economy: the amount people spend on weddings and gifts. Also, [romance] just can’t be separated from a patriarchal structure — like the idea that in a homosexual couple, one person is the masculine, and the other is the feminine. Ultimately we keep going back to those two figures on the wedding cake as the archetype, even for alternative relationships.

Amen to that. And I suppose if/when those same hereto-romantic couples start having kids, it's even more of a capitalist economic bonanza 

Maxwell's demon

1 hour ago, Chloé said:

Clearly, he has no idea what to do with his feelings

Yep, sounds like a teenage boy to me 

I used to be one of them, so let me try to help out here! Unless things have changed a lot since I was one, teenage boys:

1. Have all these new hormones that are making them totally crazy (I'm sure this applies to girls as well, hehe, but it generally manifests itself in a different way...)
2. Have LOTS of social pressure to get girlfriends, so that they won't be "losers" anymore (pressure that they put on one another and on themselves)
3. Must NEVER EVER talk about their feelings (and ESPECIALLY not to other teenage boys!)

So,  just bear these things in mind. Don't get me wrong: I'm not saying you should let him take liberties with you because of them. Be a nice supportive friend, but stay firm about your boundaries, is what I'd suggest. I don't think you need my suggestions though, you seem to be doing a great job there already  

@Apathetic Echidna Posting stuff from The Mighty Boosh in a "totally random" thread should probably count as cheating  

On 8/24/2017 at 4:10 AM, Apathetic Echidna said:

As you can probably tell from my rant I think most of our offspring will be doomed and I don't want to subject my bloodline to the horror of the future. Plus there are plenty of children already existing who have been abandoned or neglected that I would much prefer to spend time with rather than trying to make my own. 

Pretty much this.

I wonder: have you also found it a lonely and isolating experience sometimes, having these sorts of "dark" thoughts about our likely future? I read your fellow Australian Clive Hamilton's book Requiem For A Species a few years back and found it enormously helpful, particularly this paragraph from the final chapter:

Quote

Some people live largely for today and give little thought for tomorrow. Others have a deep sense of attachment to the healthy evolution of their societies, the natural world or civilization. Those with an interdependent or metapersonal self-construal are more likely to feel distressed by the threat posed by climate disruption to the future welfare of other people or the natural world. In some cultures, people feel a much stronger attachement to their ancestors and descendants. How we mourn will be influenced by how our society and those around us are responding to the loss. At present, the early mourners feel lonely and isolated, sometimes keeping their thoughts to themselves for fear of alienating those around them with their anxieties and pessimism. It is as if the doctors had declared there is no hope of recovery for a sick child, yet all around friends and family are saying, "Don't worry, she will be fine."

Context: the "loss" he's referring to us "mourning" above is the loss of the kind of future we've been culturally conditioned to expect; for ourselves and for our descendants. I see a lot of environmentalists patting themselves on the back for not being stuck in the "denial" stages of climate-change grief, but, to me, they look like they're just stuck in the "bargaining" stages instead! Too much of the discussion is focused around how to avert catastrophe, whereas catastrophe is probably already upon us now, IMO, and so the the discussion should shift to how we go on living through it. "The wind is rising! . . . We must try to live!" (from this poem)

Hi Chloe, welcome to arocaylpse  

6 hours ago, Chloé said:

Now, I'm fourteen (in 8th grade), and I'm considered "too young" to know anything about my sexual or romantic orientation or my gender

You'll learn more as you get older, of course - but that applies to all of us, however old we get  Too young to know anything is a bit nonsensical to me, like saying you've learned nothing in 14 years! (has somebody actually said this to you?)

6 hours ago, Chloé said:

So now I'm starting to think they are right, and I need more time to find the right person for me.

They might be right. Then again, they might not! For example, by way of analogy, I've read things written by people who've said from quite a young age that they didn't ever want kids. Everyone told them they'd change their minds once they got older. Then, at some point, they became adults who'd never had kids. So it's probably possible to have ideas about this sort of thing from a young age (see this thread for some aro-specific examples). Just remain open to both possibilities, I guess (and hopefully your family can do the same).

6 hours ago, Chloé said:

And the fact that everyone laughs off who I am -or who I think I am- really hurts me

Is there anyone more neutral/nonjudgmental that you can talk to, that will give you more space to talk about your feelings? Like a close friend that you trust, for example? If not, you're welcome to continue talking to us here as well, of course.

6 hours ago, Chloé said:

My mother even said that if you don't love romantically, you're almost not human.

Hmm. I can see how a comment like that could be hurtful for you (I hope for your sake that she didn't mean it that way). The human experience is pretty broad. Some humans experience romantic love, some don't. They're both equally human; their humanity just gets expressed in different ways. At least, that's how I look at it. A great scientist or spiritual leader, for example, might not 'love' in a traditional 'romantic' sense, but they can give love back in other ways, like to humanity as a whole (their kind of love can be more general, rather than being directed towards a specific person).

6 hours ago, Chloé said:

Just the thought of liking him back filled me with utter dread, and made my stomach feel sick

I think I can relate here and recall feelings like this when I was your age. Although, unlike you, I would never have identified as asexual, I would become very anxious in situations where there was the slightest hint of 'romantic intent! (in my case, whenever I was with a girl I was attracted to, I both wanted something to happen and didn't want it to happen, at the same time - but since I'd never heard of sexual vs. romantic orientations, I was very confused for a long time!) So, even if it doesn't feel like it right now, I think you're lucky to have found some words and concepts to help understand some of these feelings, at a reasonably young age still.

6 hours ago, Chloé said:

So I wanna try talking to someone, even if they don't believe me. It's just, how do I explain to someone who thinks "true love" is 99.99% of being human what aromanticism is? Someone please help me!

You can try explaining and communicating your experience of being human to them , but really it's outside of your control whether they listen or try to understand - so don't beat yourself up if/when they don't make much effort to do so! Some people are just a bit closed-minded, unfortunately, or tend to over-generalize their own very specific ideas about what it is that makes people happy. Maybe they'll change their minds when they're older, eh?  Like I said, you can always carry on talking to us on here, if you're short on 'real life' people and you find it helps to have some people to bounce ideas off?

On 14/08/2017 at 10:21 PM, Eklinaar said:

Like, we'd be doing something sexual and simultaneously just saying things we liked about each other.  Sometimes they were related to the sexual experience and sometimes they weren't.  That had a noticeable change in sex for me as an experience of mutual appreciation and shared empathy

There's this cute scene in Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (a romantic movie that I actually liked, lol) which is just Joel telling Clem over and over again that she's pretty as they have sex (helping her to overcome some childhood complex she had about it, IIRC). Your comment above reminded me of that a bit, anyway. 

On 17/08/2017 at 7:47 PM, DeltaV said:

I managed to get rid of very, very peculiar preferences (or less euphemistically, strong aversions) by “exposure therapy” in the last months.

What did you try? Just forcing yourself to interact, or more exreme measures?! I did try out some salsa and life drawing classes recently - both uncharacteristic activities for me, but you get to touch girls and see them naked, respectively. Which is nice

On 17/08/2017 at 7:47 PM, DeltaV said:

I'm basically approaching it like Yalena ‘Dutch’ Yardeen from “Killjoys”, though she once stumbles and, regretting it, says:

 

I usually know better.
Shouldn't have slept with someone I care about

I haven't seen the show. So, does she have bounty-hunter-specific reasons for taking that approach, or is it just a personality makeup thing?