Neon

Hi! I'm Neon and I use she/they/he pronouns. Welcome! And I love giving book recs so if you have genre (edit: used the wrong word, I meant age range like middle grade, YA, or adult) or any other specifications I can give you some!

That sounds a lot like my experience at that age! Had I known the word at the time, I'm fairly certain I could have confidently called myself aro when I was 12.

I encourage you to look further into aro experiences and learn more about the term if you haven't already (I literally cannot recommend Ash Hardell's videos on the a-spectrum enough, they were one of the best things ever when I was questioning) and don't hesitate to ask more questions as they arise.

Decreased

I think its a cool term though, take that with a grain of salt though as I don't label my platonic attraction, so I don't use it personally.

Ugh. I've been there. It sucks. I did a lot to quell my doubt, but the number one most important thing is TIME. It wasn't until about a year in that I could confidently say I was aromantic. But it got easier the entire time. You've only known you were aro for a month. That's not very long, and I promise it gets better. I feel doubtful very rarely now (it's been just over 3 years, and I can count on one hand how often I've tried to invalidate myself in the last couple years).

In regards to the other stuff, I took a lot of notes about intense feelings of all kinds, so I could look back and remember that the feeling I thought was romantic attraction I also got singing in the car and looking at a pretty abstract art piece (yes those are both true lmao). That way I had physical proof that I wasn't deceiving myself. I also used "arospec" and "acespec" for a while because they felt more comfortable. Without meaning to, I started using aro, ace, and aroace interchangeably with them, then started using exclusively aro, ace, and aroace. It wasn't conscious, I just eased into myself. That may not work for you, so I guess the nearest thing is just to give yourself space to explore your identity.

Finally, and this may seem counter-intuitive, but stay away from "am I aromantic" type questions, "you might be aro if" type posts, any kind of "what is your sexuality" quizzes, etc. for a while. They may validate you, but more likely, they will cause you to compare your experiences to other people's and even if you relate to 9/10 things, you will try to convince yourself you aren't aro because you don't relate to 1 of them. And to clarify, you can be aro without relating to anything in those discussions.

6 hours ago, Zariah said:

Wait - Barbie's aroace? I haven't seen the movie yet, but... this is interesting. In a good way. 

Margot Robbie confirmed that she's asexual, but didn't say or imply anything about aromanticism if I remember correctly.

1 hour ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

They got marketing spambots on queer forums now??? 😭

everything about those posts are bizarre. Like the first one, sure maybe someone made an account 5 days ago and have set nothing on their profile and found a 2 year old post and said that. It's probably happened before. But the second?

I don’t care. If I relate to something I relate to something. 

There are a lot of aro playlists out there with songs included I just do not get. But I have a feeling that if I shared mine people would be equally confused.

I generally only am interested in canon ships. There are exceptions, but they are rare. And even then, I don’t care in the way others seem too. Fictional relationships are nothing more than part of the story for me.

 

Yeah. To a degree we are all questioned, but I’ve seen so much vitriol towards arospec people that I generally don’t receive.

side note but we really need a better term (that isn’t a microlabel) than any of the ones I’ve seen on this thread. They all give off exclusionary vibes.

4 hours ago, Collie said:

My view is your business is your business

this exactly. I hadn't heard of it before, but it seems harmless and honestly quite neat of a concept. You certainly wouldn't be unwelcome here for talking about it and how it relates to aromanticism, at least if my experiences here over the past few years are anything to go off of.

Hi, and welcome!

I'm offended that you made me scroll up to understand and I got rickrolled

Mabel Pines from Gravity Falls gives me aro vibes (constantly jumping from "romantic interest" to "romantic interest", she doesn't show strong feelings towards anyone just towards the concept of romance, and at the end she stops dating in order to love herself).

True

TPBM has a garden

You should not come out unless you are completely safe and comfortable. From your post, it seems like you are not completely comfortable.

Also, do not come out for someone else. Come out for YOU, and you only.

I absolutely do not need any kind of attraction to feel non-romantic love. IDK about romantic love, as I have never personally felt that.

I feel quite a bit of non-romantic attractions (too complicated and messy to try to neatly label everything so I just call it non-romantic lol). But I don't have to feel those to feel love, and vice versa.

As for fitting into the discourse, I have a feeling people wouldn't like me to say that when talking about aromanticism. But it's my experience, and I think it's related to me being aromantic. My experiences are my own and I'm not going to shy away from being honest about them just to make people more comfortable.

This is something that has been stewing in me for a while. And it's something that I think has a lot of complexity. But hey, I'm going to try and do it justice. And I would genuinely appreciate responses challenging/adding onto anything I bring up.

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So, there are like 5 whole aromantic characters in popular media. And pretty much all of them are aroace. And pretty much none of them get that part of them explored.

And that's ridiculously disappointing. Because representation is essential for feeling comfortable with oneself.

So when I see a canon aromantic character, I get so incredibly excited. And for a while, I expected the fandom to be just as excited. To celebrate it with as much enthusiam as they do when a character is confirmed to be lesbian/gay/bi/trans.

But instead, with one exception, I've been met with "well, it's still okay to ship them" and "well, it's not really canon".

If there's celebration, it's from other aro fans. And it's a few posts in the tidal wave of "let's just ignore this".

I really want to dive into that response, and why it is so hurtful.

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"It's okay to ship them"

...tends to come in a few ways.

1) aromantic people can still date

2) just make it a QPR

3) they are just fictional characters

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The first is pretty insidious to me, because it IS true. Aromantic people can and do date. And people can and should write about that.

However, it's one thing to say that, and genuinely think of them as a partnering aromantic person. It's another to say that, and then proceed to completely ignore that the character is aromantic.

So, for example, [character] is canonically aromantic. Fanfic Writer 1 writes a story about them realizing that they still want a relationship and navigating being unable to return the exact feelings of the person they are dating. Fanfic Writer 2 writes a story about them as demiromantic and falling in love with their closest friend. Fanfic Writer 3 writes a story about them getting together with another character. Both characters are written the same way that Fanfic Writer 3 writes two alloromantic characters getting together. [Character] being aromantic is briefly mentioned, if at all.

People ask Fanfic Writer 3 if they know that [character] is aromantic, and if so, why Fanfic Writer 3 would write this story that so clearly erases that [character] is aromantic.

Fanfic Writer 3 says that "aromantic people can still date". Maybe they even throw in a little "aromantics are clearly the REAL aphobes if they don't even know that aro people can date".

And that is the difference. Fanfic Writers 1 and 2 write stories where [character] is aromantic. Fanfic Writer 3 did not.

I don't think that it is inherently wrong to ship aromantic characters. In fact, I think it's good that people (for the most part) don't see aromantic characters and just assume they are non-partnering. Partnering aros deserve to see themselves in media just as much as non-partnering aros do. And they shouldn't be used as human shields and weapons by alloromantics trying to deflect valid criticism.

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Just like the first, the second isn't literally wrong, just how it's used.

There's nothing wrong with finding out that a character you ship is actually aromantic and seeing that ship as a QPR from then on.

However, QPRs aren't just the aromantic version of romantic relationships. They aren't romantic-relationship-lite.

Just taking your ship and going "oh it's a QPR now" just shows that you don't understand what a QPR is.

Furthermore, just saying it's a QPR doesn't mean much if you are just still seeing them as alloromantic, in a romantic relationship, but just slapping a different label on it so you don't get backlash. Fanfic Writer 3 above could just as well say "I meant it as a QPR" as "aromantic people can date". In that context, they hold the same amount of meaning, and serve the same purpose. Just because you say something was your intention doesn't mean it's true.

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And finally, the third. In my opinion, the worst.

Because you would think that it just demonstates a complete lack of understanding of the effect of representation, and importance that people see themselves reflected in media, especially popular media.

But more often than not, this is thrown around by people who are ALSO underrepresented. So they know. They just don't care.

Yes, [character] is fictional. But that doesn't mean that [character] being aromantic doesn't have a very real, very positive effect on the aromantic people consuming that media.

Furthermore, I mostly see this thrown around by other QUEER people. Who would be shocked and appalled if they saw people shipping lesbian characters with men (or erasing any other identity). As they should.

But for some reason, when a character is aromantic, it's not erasure. Because that would be bad for their ship.

I genuinely do not understand it, but some people genuinely see their ship as more important that representation. But it's not. And it will never be.

Aromantic stories and representation are ALWAYS more important than ships. They are ALWAYS more important than coddling alloromantics. They should NEVER be erased for any reason.

Again, it's not inherently bad to ship aromantic characters. But the fact that they are fictional holds no weight.

A few weeks ago, I saw a Tumblr post going around in which people found out that Peridot from Steven Universe is canonically aroace. A few weeks ago. Filled with SU fans. Who didn't know.

Because the vast majority of the Peridot content is content in which she is shipped with various other characters. And somehow, almost none of that content even indicated that she is aroace. To the point where you can be really into the show, consume a ton of fan content, and still not know.

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In conclusion, it's fine to ship aromantic characters. It's not find to erase aromanticism.

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oh. you thought I was done. nope. I've got more to say. keep reading for the one fandom that didn't blatantly erasure a character's canonical aromanticism.

Now, onto the next big one that I see.

"It's not really canon"

Generally, this is about characters who were confirmed via word-of-god and/or weren't confirmed explicitly, but instead through implication.

And I am here to tell you that it is still canon. Yep, just because you personally didn't pick up on it doesn't mean it wasn't intentional, and doesn't mean it wasn't there.

That's not to say that some creators don't abuse word-of-god confirmation for diversity points. But that is the exception to the rule.

The simple fact of the matter is that it is VERY difficult to get explicit confirmations of queerness into mainstream media. Creators have to fight tooth and nail for the tiniest of implications, much less definitive affirmation.

So when a creator says "I intended this character to be aromantic" (or any queer identity) they should be believed. Especially, but not only, when they point to moments in the narrative where the implication was slipped in and/or when they have a track record of having diversity.

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Now, you may be wondering, what the opposite of this response looks like. In my opinion, it looks like The Owl House fandom's reaction to Lilith being confirmed to be aroace (though I feel that the crew's announcement was.......lacking....*cough* aromantic isn't a dirty word *cough*).

Pretty much all I saw was people celebrating, making icons, making edits, telling their friends, etc..

Yeah, there were a few angry people here and there, but they were few and far between. To this day, if I see a Lilith ship, there's a 98% chance it's not meant to be taken seriously.

And it's nice. It really is. But I do wonder, would they have reacted the same if instead of Lilith, it had been a character that is heavily shipped?

Or would they react as every other fandom who find's out a heavily shipped character is aromantic does? Would they defend their actions with half baked understandings of aromanticism? Would they be blatantly cruel?

I don't know, and I hate that I don't.

Because, look at the Steven Universe fandom. The Hazbin Hotel Fandom. The MCU Fandom. Fandoms I don't even know about. They all have significant overlap in viewer bases.

I just don't know. And I think that's sad.

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So, yeah. Thank you for reading this far if you have. Like I said above, I am mostly likely far from completely correct on anything I wrote here. I would love criticism/agreement, so I can get a gauge if I'm way off base.

Also, I wrote this at midnight (to 1:30), so please don't judge my writing lol.

banned for shaming someone for editing a message

I panic and just try to be nice. Someone asking you out is someone being INCREDIBLY vulnerable with you. I would prefer to not hurt them more than they already will be by my rejection. Of course, thinking of their feelings just makes me panic worse.

I love the sunset flag. Color wise, and meaning wise.

I used to not use it, and only use the combined one, but over time the sunset flag has become much more meaningful to me.

For me, the way I understand my orientation is that I am aro, ace, and aroace. Aro and ace are separate and not the same, but they also interact in impactful ways for me. Furthermore, aroace is different than being aroallo and alloace, just like being homoromantic and homosexual is different than just being one of those. The sunset flag is made to represent experiences like mine, unlike the combined flag.

Not that one is objectively better than the other, just that one is better for me.

6 hours ago, Queerdo said:

I feel that's exactly it. There's a fair number of people putting sex and romance on a pedestal, and treating anything else as either unhealthy or a disability accommodation.

yep. I am of the opinion that one of the reasons that many alloros who know about aromanticism don't seriously engage with aro people is because they know (internally) that if they actually consider what we are saying, they would have have to majorly revise their worldview. So it's more comfortable to continue the relationship hierarchy, say that aromanticism is a mental illness (even if they don't use that term), insist that even if everyone doesn't feel romantic love they feel platonic love (not true), etc..

I think there may also be an issue with alloaces who only recently realized they are ace coping with it by saying "at least I can still fall in love". Hell, I saw that in some AVEN FAQ when I was first accepting everything (that did not help me feeling isolated from alloaces). And that's ground that is very unsteady to me, because I want to go in there and explain how it is hurtful. But I also want them to be able to accept this big thing about themself.

And with that, I KNOW that it is helpful to alloace people. I just don't think that aroace's ought to be thrown under the bus to make alloaces more comfortable.

34 minutes ago, The Aro Mando Echo said:

I just wish that there was more clarification on the fact that both alloaces and aroaces exist. I get the alloaces wanting to express that they still want a relationship, but I wish that the way it was done was a bit less of .. exclusivity (for lack of a better word), and more just defining how the alloace in question identifies personally. Both are perfectly valid of course and both face similar hardships, so I think it's important to support one another, where ever you are on the aromantic or asexual spectrum.

And this is also why I feel more connected to aroallos/non-sam aros/etc.. For the most part, they don't really treat aroaces as a subsect of aro, and/or as "not aro enough".

On 3/19/2023 at 11:23 AM, Queerdo said:

I have a bad habit of reading AVEN, and see way too much of people (mostly very outspoken allosexual people) expressing very spicy personal takes as universal truths about what sex is and isn't for everyone else. In spite of a "no invalidation" rule, there's a lot of it going around.

11 hours ago, Alaska Native Manitou said:

Part of the reason AVEN exists is to educate non-asexuals; so it has an inclusion policy.  Personally, I wish it was more of a safe space, but it is what it is.  Also, the membership includes gray/demi sexuals, people who formerly thought that they were asexual, & relationship partners.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's important that it's not just asexual people on AVEN. And more often than not I found them to be supportive and kind. Most of their responses that made me uncomfortable came from my insecurity in my sexuality. It was just a couple of people who pretty much always responded to "am I asexual"-type posts (and sometimes even posts were someone was just talking about their experience and not asking for commentary) with everything but direct no's.

I have complex feelings about AVEN, and no real conclusions. I'd probably have to sit down and write a lot of conflicting things to fully parse everything out, and maybe I will. Overall though, I'm glad it's better, and I'm glad that if I need that community they will be there.

 

Also, I think it's important to add that this post was mostly about the asexual subreddits (I deleted my account a few months after the initial post here for unrelated reasons). I went there after I realized how uncomfortable I felt on AVEN, but only ended up joining the meme one. Which had this problem too, but hidden behind "there's too many posts about aroaces".

IDK, I wish I had an actual call to action, something we could do to make asexual spaces more comfortable for aroace people, rather than just complaining.

2 hours ago, Ace_of_Spades said:

Feeling uncomfortable as an aroace in asexual spaces the precise reason that I decided to come to Arocalypse and left AVEN years ago.

Same. I technically still have an account there, but haven't used it in 2 years. There were other reasons (like the main people on there being allos who constantly invalidated people), but that was a big one.