hemogoblin

Just wanted to thank you, @Blue Phoenix Ace, for doing the work of hosting and managing these forums for as long as you have! < 3 I wish I'd found this place sooner, but I'm glad I got a short time here, at least.

You certainly could be - anyone could be!

It sounds like you've started doing some good thinking on this. I would look at asking yourself:

Why did you feel like aro was not something at all open to you? What's changed? Is there possibly still confusion here that we could help clear up for you?

Do you want to ID as aro(spec)? Are you curious about doing so? How does it make you feel to think that you might ID as aro(spec)?

Any answers along the lines of "I want to ID as aro" or "I think I might want to try ID'ing as aro" or "I think aro might fit me" or "I identify with a lot of other aro experiences I've seen talked about" or "Even though I'm scared, it gives me some sort of positive feeling to think about ID'ing as aro" are a good sign that you should let yourself ID as aro and explore what that could mean to you and how it makes you feel after you've had time to try it on!

It's not bad to be with two people. But that's not at all what cheating is. Cheating is not the same as an open relationship or polyamory, which are consensual and agreed upon relationships. Cheating is nonconsensual. Cheating is an outright lie to someone that crosses a stated/agreed upon boundary of conduct with each other. It's bad to lie and gaslight and cross boundaries (and often it exposes people to unsafe sexual practice that one or more parties is unaware of and therefore unprepared for) - all of which can seriously impact someone's mental and emotional health to be manipulated and treated like that.

I get how you feel because the one time I dated, I wanted nothing more than for my now-ex to have some of his needs met by other people more willing and with more energy to meet them. He had blanket permission to do whatever with whoever else from me (which upset and offended him very much), so there was not really a way to cheat on me.

But not everyone feels the same way, and that's the difference.

Think of a boundary that's important to you. (Maybe you have a boundary about being touched in a certain way or about a policy of honesty with friends or a certain level of contact with a family member or maybe even a boundary about interactions with your boss/another person in authority over you.) Think of someone you care about (or otherwise a relevant person in that scenario) in some capacity that explicitly knows you have that boundary and then specifically ignores and crosses that boundary and then outright lies about it, perhaps even gaslighting you to get you to believe them. Or even imagine that they secretly crossed that boundary and then later admitted to doing it, either by your confrontation or completely out of the blue because they felt bad about it. That might help you understand more how it feels when people get cheated on.

I don't see why this couldn't be a solid short story!

If you wanted to expand it, you could have them getting whirlwind married and something never feeling right until months or years down the road they realize that it was just the dance and the music and there was never really love there.

I think your idea for this being a small part of a larger story could also work fine. Like this is just one small moment in their life that seemed big and meaningful at the time but was ultimately rather meaningless.

That's good to hear Twig55! I hope this is the end of it.

It's definitely okay to be sad over this, as well. He was a friend before this, and friend heartbreak is as real and valid as any other heartbreak from any other relationship that ends. It can hurt to cut off a relationship even if you weren't that close because it changes the possibility of getting close. Give yourself some time to feel bad and grieve about what happened.

Whoa, how bizarre and upsetting!

If he sent a global 'f- you' to the entire company, I would suspect they'll be watching him pretty closely and likely speaking with him as soon as he comes into work again, which I think will help work in your favor.

I know you don't want to go to HR, but I would absolutely speak to your manager ASAP. Don't put it off. If he's ignoring your boundaries, your manager needs to help take steps so that you to are separated and someone is keeping an eye on him at the very least. Honestly, if you can contact your manager before Monday or go in early to meet with them about this, that might be best.

I would also block him on all social media and whatever else form of contact you have with him. If you can reach out to other friends of his who would be safer interacting with him, I would also do that. They can check in on him and help support him with whatever he's got going on. If he's experiencing some sort of breakdown, that's very sad, and I hope he gets the help he needs, but you don't need to "help" him by putting yourself in unsafe and/or mentally compromising situations around him.

I think it might be best for now to treat him as a work colleague and nothing more. Be professional but curt and hold him at a distance if he does approach you. Invoke your manager's name if you need help detangling from interactions, like "[manager] is really on me not to have so much downtime today, so I really need to get to work, so I don't have time to chat" or "I actually need to meet with [manager] right now, excuse me".

I'm really sorry you're dealing with this. It does sound pretty scary/uncomfortable. I hope it works out for the best!

8 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Then... What was your point? I’m not saying this to be rude, I’m just genuinely confused as to why you brought it up.

Ask @Mark, the user whose post I was responding to. They're the one who asked for proof of aro "stuff" on ace sites several times now.

7 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

 

I know you mean well, but the irony here is that FYA actually is strongly disliked by many aros for having posted a lot of subtly arophobic content. It's not just a matter of aces acknowledging that aros exist; They need to be careful to do so in ways that are respectful towards us, especially allo aros. So while I do agree that Mark seems to be... Getting a little lost, FYA is actually a great example of the point they were getting at- That content from primarily ace-centered sources is likely to be skewed in a certain manner that can be unhelpful or even outright harmful to aros.

I actually don't think that's ironic or that it goes against the point, and I am aware of the criticism of fyeahace. I wasn't disagreeing that aro-content in ace-spaces is going to have an ace-perspective, nor did I say it was universally appreciated representation. That was simply an example of aro-content being easier to find in ace-spaces, not an example of the kind of aro-content people might want in general lgbt+/queer spaces (as I got at in the paragraph after the one you quoted).

@Mark It feels like you're having a different conversation than everyone else? Like, I don't think what you're saying is incorrect or disagreed upon, it's just... not a relevant reply to anything you're actually quoting.

Like, I don't understand why you keep asking for examples of aro content on ace sites or keep putting "stuff" in quotation marks.

This thread is about aro inclusion and aro information in general lgbt+/queer spaces, so "stuff" would refer to anything you'd like to see about aromanticism: its definition, discussions of amatonormativity, how it interacts with other attractions/attraction components, how it interacts with other identities, aro-specific terminology that's been created, deconstructing anti-aromantic sentiments, etc.

There is something we clearly agree on: you're more likely to hear about aromanticism and get to participate in aromantic discussions in asexual-focused spaces. Which makes sense because for a long time, aromantic was a subset of asexual until we grew into our own community with a more defined sense of self and distinct separation of identity.

If you want examples of aromanticism being more visible in ace-focused spaces, go browse the tumblr fuckyeahasexual. It's an ace-focused blog, but they do talk about aromanticism and I believe a couple of mods also identify as aro. Or, of course, AVEN, which has a whole "Romantic and Aromantic Orientations" section. The asexual wiki even has its own page dedicated to defining aromantic and various aromantic identities. Compare those to, say, GLSEN. Searching "aromantic" on their site brings up three posts. I only checked one, but in that one, it defines aphobia/acephobia as discrimination against asexual and/or aromantic people, but then doesn't include the term arophobia, doesn't even define aromantic, or mention aromanticism at any other point in the article. And searching aromantic on HRC's site brings up zero results. (On the other hand, PFLAG does actually define aromanticism as its own thing, which was cool to find out!)

I'm also not sure why advocating for aro visibility in general lgbt+/queer spaces would mean just copy'pastaing content from ace-focused sites, nor do I see anyone actually suggesting that be what we do. Whoever provides the information will be the one providing the information. If you're advocating for aro content to be included in [x] space, you'd probably want to a) discuss and define what you want on your own terms, and b) provide resources they can use to learn more if at all possible (which thanks to the great folks behind AUREA will be a lot easier to provide an aro-focused resource perspective on aromantic resources). But also, we shouldn't discredit valuable aromantic resources and information just because they originated on an ace-focused site (since again, shared history).

I agree that there are a lot of assumptions people new to the terminology may confuse about aromanticism and asexuality and the two can be conflated... but I think in recent discussions about this, we've forgotten that there is a lot of overlap between aromantic and asexual experiences and issues and our two communities and histories are not 100% clearly separated and unique. Like, I've seen aros get mad that aces call Will Jay's "Never Been in Love" an ace song, but they're doing that because they also relate to the song. I'm caedro, so I wasn't always aro, but for a long time, I suppressed and denied my romantic attraction because I had no idea about asexuality, aromanticism, or the split attraction model but I knew I was different from my peers and so I felt my feelings were somehow fake or made-up because I didn't know what they meant. If I'd heard Never Been in Love back then or even right after discovering my asexuality, I would have related to the song very strongly just because of my asexuality. A lot of aces also struggle with feeling like they somehow love "wrong" or in a "broken" or "incorrect" way due to their asexuality and living in an amatonormative coercive heterosexual society in a similar way to how many aros are impacted by amatonormativity and dehumanization as a result.

Perhaps it's just tumblr, but non-ace aro voices have become way louder and more visible in recent months, which I think/hope is a good indication of a more balanced aromantic community where more diverse experiences are talked about. (Although by balance I do mean balance - aroace voices also have a place in our community, but I won't deny that we've been centered in the community thus far.)

Anyway, to get back to the original topic, I agree that I'd love to see aromanticism become more visible and well-known and not just as a subset of asexuality. I actually do think this is happening (AUREA's creation and everyone's work during ASAW in particular is a really good sign imo) - we just have to remember that it takes time and keep speaking up where we can and supporting those who are advocating and working for more visibility.

I think one thing that helps is connecting with more aromantic people, like you did by joining here, and could do by following more aromantic social media blogs/creators. Just realizing how you're not the only one who feels the way you do can help immensely, but also, you'll probably be exposed to a lot of talk about coping with and unlearning amatonormative messages - and that can really help. Finally, just give yourself some time and be patient with yourself! There's stages of processing and coming to terms with your identity - even if you've known how you felt, finding a term for it can make it somehow real and concrete and that can be scary and hard.

I'm actually caedromantic, so I did date when I was alloro, but even if trauma hadn't turned me aro, I still wouldn't date again after my experience. I just realized that people, especially romantic partners, just want more time, energy, focus, and dedication than I actually have the energy to give them. I personally found dating exhausting and limiting and, yeah, that is tinged by the fact that it was abusive, but spending time with others is something I struggled with even in friendships, where a lot of people just want to be together a lot more than I want to be with people and dating was just an exponential increase of those mismatches.

Look, posts and blogs by other aroflux peeps!

https://www.tumblr.com/tagged/aroflux

https://arofluxblog.tumblr.com/            (now inactive sadly)

https://aroflux-and-anxious.tumblr.com/

https://arofluxsupport.tumblr.com/

https://www.tumblr.com/search/aroflux/recent

Completely seconding everything LBMango said as well. Very well put!

< 3

Thanks for the clarification! In that case, I would try not to overly analyze what they're thinking because there could be any number of reasons they respond positively but don't start up the conversations or want to meet in person, but instead focus on what makes you happy and what are healthy decisions for your mental health right now.

Is it making you unhappy to do all the reaching out and not have it returned? Then maybe it's time to turn down how often you contact them! If not, then maybe you want to continue as you have been.

Is it making you exhausted to do all the reaching out and not have it returned? Then maybe it's time to step back and only contact them when you have the energy to do so and really want to. If not, then maybe you want to just keep doing what you're doing.

Is it making you happy to reach out but unhappy once it's over and contact isn't reciprocated? Then maybe it's time to step back and give you both some space to process some more before re-navigating your friendship. If not, then maybe you keep contacting them and keep just talking about whatever with them.

Is it making you unhappy or confusing your feelings to still be entangled in trying to navigate a friendship with this person so soon after breaking up? Then maybe it's time to take your own space - just until you've had more time to process and come to terms with the new state of the relationship! If not, then maybe it's okay to continue to explore what transitioning back to a non-partnered friendship means to the two of you.

Be honest about what you want and need, and let your former partner be honest about what they want and need. Maybe you should have a conversation specifically addressing the break-up and what this transition means between the two of you and set some new expectations for what you each want out of the relationship? I think it makes sense that things are a little awkward and weird, since you're re-exploring an old (yet "new") stage of your relationship to each other and how it will work, so maybe specifically addressing that and talking about it a bit could help you both share expectations and have smoother interactions.

1. How would you define gender?

An inner sense of self for how you navigate socio-cultural roles and classifications of people in an arbitrary and ambiguous categorical system that's loosely based on a combination of genitalia, body type, presentation, expression, and even personality.

2. Does it matters to you? Why?

Yes... and no? I don't have a strong sense of gender in and of itself, but I do noticeably navigate the world of gender in an obvious and thoughtful manner that differs from the so-called expected defaults.

3. How do you know what gender you are?

Introspection, exploration, and gut feeling.

4. For genderfluid people, how does it works?

Sorry, I actually don't think I understand what this question is asking!

These are popular ones, but Katniss Everdeen and Elsa both give me really strong aro vibes. The ending of The Hunger Games has always bothered me and a large part of that was Katniss getting married and having kids and being seemingly completely uninterested in both. >________>

I kinda like Mai from ATLA as aromantic as well.

I love the idea of Roën from the Orisha trilogy as aromantic and I know quite a few people in the fandom who hc Tzain as aromantic (which I love because I relate a lot to him).

I always felt like Christina Yang from Grey's Anatomy should be aromantic. A lot of the ways she acted in her relationships were really relatable and read as pretty aro to me.

I could easily see Scully from X-Files as arospec.

Frederico Estaban Giuseppe Gonzoga from the GFL series hits with me as a fellow caedromantic. The main character Quentin Barnes also reads as demiromantic (and grayasexual) to me.

I've completely fallen out of the HP fandom, but when I was still invested in that story, the fandom turned me onto Harry as aromantic or gray-romantic, and I couldn't see him as anything else after that. (As well as Charlie Weasley and Oliver Wood.)

I wasn't there, and I don't know you or your (former) partner, but from what I'm reading, I don't think you irrevocably messed up or that you need to be so hard on yourself over what happened.

I think possibly you both didn't handle things perfectly, which - you're both human: that happens. It sounds like you got excited about where you were headed with this person and talked about something that you possibly knew was off the table (?) but thought that they may have changed their mind instead of asking them about it and having a conversation. It sounds like your partner could have chosen to talk with you about this at any point about how yes, they wanted to spend their life with you but didn't want that to include marriage. It sounds very possible that your partner was also having other doubts that they chose not to communicate with you and so things compounded and they panicked and chose to withdrawal as a defense mechanism. I think you both didn't have a conversation where a conversation could have really helped clear things up. (To be clear, the conversation still might have lead to a separation but maybe you'd both feel like you had more closure, if not any less hurt, if it had happened this way.)

I do think that the break-up and them avoiding you is a clear sign not to push things with them right now, though. I can think of several possibilities of why this person suddenly broke things off, but all we know for sure is that they decided to break things off and avoid you. That hurts. And I'm so sorry you're experiencing this. I know it can't feel good. One of the great advice columnists I follow has a saying, though: "closure is the gift you give yourself". Be gentle with yourself. Give yourself time to wallow. But don't ignore the boundary they're holding up now. By ignoring you, they're telling you - even if in a very hurtful way - that they don't want to engage with you. And don't hold yourself back from experiencing life by getting too caught up in waiting for them to realize you two can still patch things up. You have no idea if they want to patch things up or if they do, how long that would even take them. So how can you take care of yourself right now? What other relationships in your life (friends, family, other relationships) can you foster right now? What hobbies and passions did you perhaps not give as much time to when you were with this person? What new things are happening in your town that you want to participate in? What self-care habits would feel good right now?

No one can predict what will happen in the future. All you can do is live for the now.

Your former partner has cut off communication. It seems likely that they know you are open to talking and meeting up. If you haven't been contacting them a whole bunch and have been mostly leaving them alone, I do think it would be okay for you to leave them one last message wherever is most reasonable/within boundaries saying that you're open to talking if they want to but that you're going to respect their boundary and back off and let them be the ones to re-open communicate with you if they ever want to do that. As the person who has cut off communication... it's up to them to open it back up and approach you, especially since you're open to that. Which means, yes, I think you need to let your ex go. If they want to talk, they'll let you know.

And to answer the root question asked in your title: yes, I do think it can work between an allo and an aro... but that doesn't mean it will always work between an allo and an aro. ?

I think it makes sense that an identity that doesn't apply to them is only meaningful to them in understanding you! That's definitely reasonable.

I do have one friend from my past who unfortunately has taken to pestering me about getting a pet or mentioning she wants to hook me up with random men (and only men for some reason even though I was previously bi/pan before I was aro) in her life, including my boss and a friend of hers who they think is also rather aroace because I came out as aro and she "doesn't want me to be alone" even though I'm perfectly happy with my status and in fact would be unhappy if partnered up - even with a roommate.

Concise answers first!

Quote

If I’ve “been in love” enough to marry someone and have their children, do I fit the identity?

Yes, you certainly can! Nobody can really determine this but you, though. Identity is a personal thing. But having been married nor having children nor even being in romantic love precludes you from the aromanticism or the aro spectrum.

Quote

Given the fact that the choices I’ve made have been driven by seeking the love and acceptance I didn’t get as a child, does that mean I’ve always been Aro/Demi or Aro/Ace? 

Maybe! It's difficult re-analyzing your past through your current perspective, but again, this is something only you can decide, since it's your life and your identity and your experiences.

Longer answers, if you want some aro and identity-based analysis.

Identity is complicated and weird. This is because it's personal and completely subjective. You can't take any test and have it spit out the "correct" identity for you. There is no such thing as labeling yourself incorrectly, imo, only outgrowing a label or exploring labels and deciding they're not longer right for you. Howe we label should be based on what label we want to use, what label comforts us, what label feels most right to us, what label helps us best communicate with others how we feel, and/or what label best connects us with a community who has had similar experiences to us/that we can personally connect with/understand. How we label can be determined by whichever of those is most important to us at the time. But how we label is also totally determined by: our exposure to and knowledge of certain labels, not to mention it can be impacted by our overall headspace, place in life, who're we're around socially, etc. And we don't always have a clear understanding of what draws us to one label over another. It's like... you may crave spaghetti and eat it for a week straight and then the next week find spaghetti unappealing even though you like it perfectly fine and always have. Or it's like starting a new TV show but not having the headspace to take in new content and end up not liking the show, even though you try it again six months later and fall in love with the show. Our emotions and feelings are so subjective and impacted by so many little things and big things, and this can impact how we feel even about our own identity on a small scale and certainly in the long-term.

When I was 21 - 22, I started questioning my gender for the first time in my life. Around 23, even though completely unsure and doubtful and not feeling valid enough, I decided to label as nonbinary. At around 25, I finally came to terms with being nonbinary and was completely comfortable identifying that way. Then at 26, I realized I also identified as genderqueer. For a while, I thought my gender, like my romantic attraction, was impacted by the abusive relationship I had recently escaped at the time of my questioning. In the following years, I know for sure the relationship did impact my romantic attraction (as well as me becoming aplatonic), but I've started to realize that the same probably isn't true for my gender. Looking back, I can now see several signs that could have pointed to me being nonbinary when I was younger and just not having the language for it or a big enough reason to cause me to really think about it enough to realize it. But in the end... I'll really never know if I was really nonbinary when I was younger or not because our identities? They're also largely impacted by our perspective and understanding of ourselves.

We are continually discovering more about ourselves as we grow and understanding ourselves and our desires in different ways. We also experience more and what we experience can impact us, who we are, and who we understand we are, changing our understanding of our identity or making a certain aspect of our identity more or less important to us (in recent times, my aromanticism has become a bigger part of my experience than my asexuality, which was previously a much bigger component of who I was than my romantic attraction), or giving us new understanding of how we feel and what we want, making different labels seem more appealing/more accurate to us.

So regarding your past. Maybe you were aromantic with an exception. Maybe you were a little more gray-aromantic and now you're less gray due to time and experiences and even natural fluctuations that could have happened with your aromanticism. Maybe you were in love but it was more queerplatonic or platonic than it was romantic, but a romantic relationship was something you desired and felt fulfilling to you.

Whatever it was, whether past or present you feels aromantic is a good application for your past self or not, you are valid! It is valid to use a different label when you feel that different label suits you. It is valid to ID in different ways over the course of your life. It is valid to feel aromantic fits you now even if it didn't in the past. It is valid to not know if aromantic fit you in your past or not. You are valid.

Identity is weird and confusing and complicated. It's never simple, even when it feels simple - or maybe it is simple sometimes but that doesn't mean it will always feel simple to you throughout your whole life. People are never clear cut. We're complex. We're enigmatic. We're walking contradictions, and that's okay. Labels aren't some inherent part of our existence. We create labels because we think deeply and like we patterns and linear understanding and sorting things into easier-to-understand boxes makes it easier for us to navigate the beautiful mess that humanity and the world at large is.

I'm really glad you've found the label aromantic and that it's providing comfort to you! That's what labels should do for us. < 3

Hope this made sense and was helpful!

Your sexuality isn't a diagnosis or test - it's not about being quantifiably [label], so other people can't tell you what label is best for you. That's totally self-determined. How you label is down to: how you want to label, how you're comfortable labeling, what label makes the most sense to you, what label helps you best communicate with others, what label best helps you connect with a community of people with similar experiences, etc.

Not wanting romance or anything romantic certainly sounds like an extremely good reason to explore what being aromantic might mean to you! Maybe check out Early Signs That You Were Aro and You Might Be Aro If... here on the forums and see how those threads make you feel and if you relate to anything in them.

I can tell you that your experience certainly gives me aro vibes, but I can't tell you if you're aro or if aro is the best label for you because that's something only you can decide. So what if you tried out calling yourself aromantic? What if you let yourself see how it felt after a couple months of doing so?

I don't want to throw too much information at you, but I think you might also be potentially interested in learning about queerplatonic relationships when you're ready. ^^

My "friend" is constantly equating aromanticism with loneliness and I'm so. got. dang. tired.

Either I'll "be alone forever" so it's fine for her husband to leave work early (leaving me alone) to celebrate Valentine's Day (they didn't even want to do a date thing, she just wanted to go home...) or she's "scared of [me] being completely alone" and constantly pushes me to get pets that I do not want.

It's things like this that make my aplatonicism reeeaaaally clear.