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LauraG

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About LauraG

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    Laura G
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    Greyromantic Asexual
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  1. Suggestion for the future: please include "neither yes nor no" as an option on future surveys whenever there's a yes/no/unsure question (for me personally, this was an issue on the "is your partnership romantic" question, but I'm sure it will be a thing for others on other questions) In general, the survey questions are difficult to answer as someone who doesn't find "romance" to be a personally useful category, but also I recognize it's really hard to write questions that accommodate that. Edit: just realized there's an option to add feedback at the end of the survey - whoops! Anyway, congrats about getting this out! It's exciting!
  2. Yeah, I kind of hate when people paraphrase? Because then it's hard to know yourself whether they're misinterpreting people or whether they have a point. For example, I know @Jot-Aro Kujo has gotten upset about how people bring up shared ace & aro history before, and my first instinct was that those complaints were talking about people making corrections when others make inaccurate claims about the history of certain terms (*cough* queerplatonic), until I encountered someone who just brought up that allo aros wouldn't have the words to talk about themselves without aces just at the mere mention of an allo aro person, and I was like "wait, wtf this happens this way? that's messed up" and realized that my interpretations of Alex's paraphrasing were probably inaccurate. So I've tried to give examples when I talk about things now, because I realize people's interpretations of paraphrasing is subject to both my interpretation as the writer and then the reader's imagination of what I must be talking about, both of which might be inaccurate. I also wonder how people from older conflicts would feel about things being brought up after a long time. Like, people might not want to get back into certain drama if you message them after a while has passed, and might get upset at you bringing it up if you were to try to approach them.
  3. So I've seen something new that I'd like to share on this thread, however, I've not contacted the two people involved in the conversation as per the discussion @Jot-Aro Kujo and I had earlier in this thread. The thing is, I'm 5,000% positive that me, as an individual, saying something would go over extremely poorly. Would Alex, or someone else (preferably an allo aro someone else) be willing to reach out to those people if I shared the post privately? Pending, of course, taking a look at the post in question. I'd understand if you didn't want to touch it. Mostly, I'm just concerned that these people will be considered right by a large portion of the community if there aren't people opposing those ideas, particularly other allo aros opposing those ideas, because aces just get dismissed.
  4. What would you prefer we call it? Harassment? Vigilante modding an unmoderated space? Somehow I doubt those two come across any better... (this is mostly a joke) I say this because I have received a slew of nasty messages of this variety for a post that was so relevant to aromanticism that in the notes there were people asking me what it had to do with asexuality (it was an ace week post, so it mentioned aces for that reason, people got confused about this once it was no longer ace week). It was a post inspired by my aro experiences, so I tagged it as aro for that reason, but also because I wanted to be able to find it again when I wanted to reblog my aro-related posts at times like ASAW! Tags have multiple functions beyond doing a sitewide search of the entirety of tumblr. Having a bunch of people come and tell me that my post, which was inspired by my aro experiences, wasn't aro, did feel like they were policing my identity. (And I got another person literally call me alloace over that same post for using the word queerplatonic and ace in the same sentence, so I was maybe also primed to interpret it that way, but it still felt really awful.) My point is that if you misinterpret the other person's post, and you tell someone that their post isn't aro, you run the risk of saying things that do sound like identity policing. I once saw a blog accidentally tag a post that said something like "it's okay to want romance without sex" as aromantic. Now, I'd agree that's inappropriately tagged. But how did someone correct that? By saying "this isn't aro"! Cupioromantic aros and aros who otherwise "want romance" exist, and when you say "this isn't aro" on a post like that, you're essentially calling everyone in that category "not aro." Which is identity policing, even if accidental (which I think it probably was in that case - it just felt icky to read). Do you have any suggestions for how people could continue to address mistagged posts in a way that won't put others through that awful experience I had? What's the connection here? How do mistagged tumblr posts, specifically, contribute to this misconception? This feels like a correlation not causation kind of thing. Maybe this is the source of disagreement here? I don't think that the misconceptions are caused by the mistagging, but rather vice versa - misconceptions cause the instances of real mistagging, which are usually done by baby aces or people who are not themselves ace or aro. I honestly do not believe that tumblr tags are enough of a community face to really contribute to this misconception, and we're better served addressing that misconception in other ways that would be more effective than messaging each individual who doesn't understand the difference between asexuality and aromanticism. I believe that! I believe that it's not intentional - I think it comes more from not understanding how certain posts are relevant to aromanticism, or just how people go about making the correction. Personally, I believe the risk of causing harm to another aro is not worth it, but if you have suggestions for ways to mitigate that potential harm instead, I'm all ears. On this note - I believe posts that are about being aroace, where the "aro" part of that is a significant aspect of the post, but are also limited to aces in some way, would not be inappropriately tagged with "aromantic" - because even if they're about asexual aromanticism, they're still about aromanticism. I've seen some people tag police because a post was limited to aces, but still about aromanticism, which I don't think is okay, would you agree with that? Those spaces are important! But honestly? Tumblr tags are a terrible place to try to create any kind of community space. Why is everyone so focused on trying to turn them into a that? It's literally just a sitewide search of Tumblr! No different from a google search, except that it is limited to tumblr! It feels as ridiculous to me as writing letters of complaint to the essential oil company Aromantic telling them they are invading the community space that is my Google Alert emails. Additionally, tumblr tags are, by nature, unmoderated - and moderation done by people who are not designated mods does not lend itself to a positive community space. You want a place where you can create community guidelines, and have designated mods who reach out to people who don't follow the guidelines, and who can straight up delete irrelevant posts if needed. Why not put energy there as opposed to tumblr tags, which is like, the least productive community space you could possibly put effort into? I appreciate this, considering I'm 95% sure that that's me? Even if I'm not completely sure what you mean by this. But thanks
  5. I'm sorry if I did this in this thread at all? I know this is directed at @Coyote but I can't help notice the similarity between that and my own post further up this thread. I didn't reach out to both of the people I quoted up there, mostly because best case scenario I didn't think they'd listen to me... worst case I'd get hate mail... How do you suggest people balance making the effort to reach out to people yourself, when you are fairly certain they won't listen to you (or you've seen them fail to listen to others in the past), versus trying to reach out to others who might have a better chance of getting through to the people making the comments in question or at least try to draw attention to the issue so that others know it's not okay? I certainly prefer friendly one-on-one conversations where you're both trying to understand the other person, but sometimes I doubt that the other person would be willing to engage in that with me. (Edit: I also value giving evidence and examples to back up claims, that way people can know exactly what you're talking about. I've definitely thought people were talking about one thing when they were actually talking about another in the past, so I usually try to give specific examples myself so we're not talking around the issue too much.)
  6. Another type I've seen (that probably overlaps with all three of these?) is downplaying legitimate issues that aces face, or implying that aces, especially allo aces, don't really have it all that bad. I think this often happens simply because the people saying this don't know a lot about issues aces, especially allo aces, face (maybe they're thinking of issues aros face, and thinking that aces/allo aces don't have to deal with those, forgetting that there are additional issues that being ace/allo ace might add into the equation?). But when that's combined with "everything's always about aces all the time so I don't want to hear/learn anything new about aces because I'm tired of it" it doesn't work out so well.
  7. i sign under everything @Jot-Aro Kujo said in this reblog with both hands, that comment about sex-favorable aces was tone deaf. "Yeah, there are sex positive aces, but they’ll never be treated the same way that alloaros are. And like, it all started when allaros started getting mad at the fact that we’re literally the most poorly treated aspecs." on the other hand implies that aces are privileged over alloaros imo. I also agree that that particular commenter was out of line. I do think there are times that sex-favorable aces face similar issues to allo aros (such as finding community space where talking about sex is okay), but that fact should never be used to downplay those issues, it should be used to bolster them. (And also it shouldn't be used as "this is only valid cause it also affects aces" either) I would like to (gently) push back against the bolded sentence up there, though. There is a very long history in the ace community of shitting on sex-favorable aces. Broadly, I think the ace community does a pretty good job of addressing it when it comes up; so much so that I think the ace community as it stands now places too much emphasis on sex-favorable aces. But the reason that happens is because of that long history of people trying to kick sex-favorable aces out of the ace label or community. To take an example from early ace history, there was the Official Asexual Society (source) : I certainly don't want this to devolve into "who has/had it worse" but I just want to point out that it's a little more complicated than you might be thinking. (Alex I also don't mean to be talking about you in the hypothetical; I'm hoping this response doesn't come across that way?)
  8. I definitely agree with all of this. One thing I'd like to mention is that sometimes, especially on Tumblr where everything's out in the open for everyone to see, it can be unclear which the op is trying to do. I don't have the exact link, but once I encountered a post that, based on how it was written, sounded more like an explaining/Doing Activism type post (it was written with the framing as if it were giving advice to non-alloaro folks), but it also had a dni banner that made it very clear that it actually wasn't for that audience? That post made me think a lot about the potential for confusing a vent post for a Doing Activism post, because without the dni banner I definitely would have misinterpreted that.
  9. Since a lot of your examples are simply people talking about it, I'd like to offer some specific examples. Probably the most egregious example I've seen so far is this bulleted list of criticisms of the word queeragamic. (Which to be clear, I don't like the word and think there are valid criticisms/concerns/worries to have about it, just, not the main point the person is making below.) The similarities between the sentiment being expressed here and anti-ace rhetoric that identifying as ace means you're "oversharing about your sex life" make me highly uncomfortable. Especially considering this was based on a conversation on a discord server that has over 100 people on it and apparently no one pointed out that this isn't okay? However, as an ace person bringing that up, my concerns get dismissed as an ace person who's ignoring allo aro's complaints, and I don't really know how to address this issue without that being the perception? One person recently called this out (which... not a huge fan of their approach, but agree with the point), and the op just dismissed them, then doubled down on the point by making this post. And another angle that people were taking with the queeragamic criticisms, which you can see a little bit of at the end of the above post, is that by being uncomfortable with others assuming that you're having sex, the coiner is somehow sex-shaming allosexual aros? Which again, to me just sounds like typical anti-ace rhetoric that says identifying as asexual is sexualizing everyone else (an argument usually made in the context of minors): note: this isnt me hating aroaces in general, this is about a qpr blog i used to like deciding that aroallos are ruining the term qpr by having sexual elements in their qprs, and decided to make a “new term” thats basically just a qpr except you cant use it if your relationship is sexual. which is completely unecessary because qprs have ALWAYS included only the elements the participants want and is a highly versatile and fluid term thats personal to a relationship. but i guess us filthy, depraved aroallos need a term we’re explicitly excluded from so that we don’t ruin the precious image of our community or whatever. i am so fucking tired. Like, the coiner of the word did coin it in reaction to realizing that there are plenty of people who use qpr to describe relationships that are also sexual, but I think they were just wrong for assuming that it wasn't sexual before? (Though, because the etymology of the word is weird, it's an understandable mistake.) Idk it's a really common experience for aces to be uncomfortable with others seeing them in a sexual way. Whether that's being hit on by others, having others assume they're having sex, realizing others are seeing their body in a sexualized way -- this is a really common ace experience, and it's totally separate from sex-shaming others. Being personally uncomfortable with others assuming you're sexual is very different from shaming others for being sexual, and confusing those two is a common anti-ace sentiment. The criteria I used for the above was whether or not the statement was something I've heard non-aro/non-ace people say before and considered it to be anti-ace sentiment at the time, excluding generalized statements of frustration that don't deal directly in issues (e.g. "I'm tired of aces" or something like that, which would be very different coming from a non-aro/non-ace person vs. an aro person who had been hurt by aces.)
  10. Yeah, it's just about done now, should be going up within the next few days. My goal was to just get something that would be a good primer on queerplatonic to compete with the bad one in the tags. I'm thinking the audience for that one is people who don't know what queerplatonic means at all - where I don't think who coined it is necessary. I was more thinking that this would help with combating a slightly different but related misconception - that (allo)aces use queerplatonic to refer to non-sexual romantic relationships (aka "aces stealing aro terms"). I have not personally seen any evidence that suggests that's a widespread problem, and that original infographic is the one post I've seen that actually does that. It's just one post, but it also has nearly 9k notes, which is a problem, and probably the root of that misconception. This was my way of trying to combat that problem at it's source. That's probably a good idea. I think that's aiming a bit more for an aro audience or at least a more informed audience, as opposed to a general audience like the previous infographic. Perhaps a second infographic aimed more at an aro audience that's about the history of the word queerplatonic would work better for that. I'd mentioned a while back that I might try to make a summary of Coy's history of queerplatonic post that's more digestible - this might be a substitute for that.
  11. I think that makes a lot of sense. Since I think Coy was asking in order to find a replacement phrase for "aro reparations" in the title, here are a few possibilities for that one: Building Aro Community Aro Community Building Building Aro Community & History (Maybe too long) Also if this is the ending, I think "proxy" doesn't quite make sense... perhaps a word like "vehicle" would get it across a bit better? QPR Misinformation Is Not an Appropriate Vehicle for Aro Community Building We could also play around with the sentence order a bit, which could shorten it more, and potentially allow for more detail in the part talking about motivations: Aro Community Building Deserves Better Than QPR Misinformation Building Aro Community & History Deserves Better Than QPR Misinformation I wholeheartedly agree that I'd like the communities to relate to each other as equals, rather than as either of the two framings you mentioned. If we're being super careful in this thread about not taking people's words out-of-context by making sure to acknowledge why people say the things that they say, which it seems we are, I do want to add that the person you're quoting there said that statement in response to having her own identity and community membership erased. Whether or not people find that motivations are more important than the impact such statements have will vary I'm sure. I just encourage everyone to consider the motivations for everyone involved, if that is something that's important to you. I also wonder whether the entire framing of "indebted and benefactor" would even exist if it weren't for misinformation being spread about the origins of the word queerplatonic (or more broadly, attempts to separate aro history from ace history where that would be impossible). One of the benefits of addressing the misinformation in our community is that it would help prevent this kind of framing from happening as a reaction.
  12. Would you consider the phrase "platonic relationship" to be a synonym of "friendship"? Do you consider all friendships to be platonic relationships? Do you consider all platonic relationships to be friendships? (I'm intentionally asking a question I know people are going to have different answers to. I'm curious what everyone's first instinct is!)
  13. That sounds good. Does anyone have any suggestions for how to make this more concise? Maybe we can take out "in aro circles"? I don't think that alters the meaning too much. Maybe also "real problems between aro and ace communities" can just be "community relations". So "misinformation on qprs hinders conversations about community relations" Perhaps this might also be a substance over style situation where it's better to have a wordy title that gets across the right impression. True. We can definitely make sure that happens too.
  14. One thing that I think is important for us to keep in mind as we discuss intent... Just because someone does this intentionally doesn't mean they are doing so with bad intent. While we all seem to be in agreement that spreading this misinformation is not a good thing, I think it's important to realize that recognizing that there may be intent behind some instances of this happening doesn't mean that that intent can't be good. One thing I took away from Coyote's post was the entire idea that the intent behind misinformation on qprs (whether done knowingly or unknowing, and I believe both happen) is positive intent. People feel genuinely hurt by the ace community and worried that they'd lose a word that's important to them if they admit that it was the ace community and not the aro community that created the word. As someone who's been hurt by the misinformation, it was hard to keep this in perspective, but Coy's post helped me do that and I'm grateful. (And one final note - if assuming positive intent is a value of yours, I encourage you to take a moment now to check in with yourself to make sure you are applying that principle evenly in this thread.)
  15. Hm... I'm not totally sure whether to read this as potential solutions to the "real crimes" or "fake crimes" - I'm thinking maybe you meant both? That's how I'm going to respond to it. In terms of addressing misconceptions, I wish that there was more of a community-driven effort to not tolerate this kind of thing - much the way there is about not tolerating anti-gray nonsense. Though, I'm thinking this is a situation that requires a bit more delicacy, since, as your blog post points out, there often is a legitimate hurt there that deserves attention and to be addressed. Unlike the anti-gray bigotry which warrants a stronger response. If you'll excuse the ace community example, I'm thinking much the way the ace community self-polices sex-negativity. In all the ace communities I've been a part of, bad mouthing others' sexual behaviors is unacceptable, but when its corrected it's often from a place of "I get why you feel this way, but saying that still hurts other people. Try framing it this way next time." Something like that.(And there may be some people already doing that, which is awesome!) To move a bit away from the context of coinage and towards another common greivances relating to qprs - that alloromantic aces use the word to mean non-sexual romantic relationships. Personally, I haven't seen evidence to suggest that this is as pervasive a problem as it is sometimes framed as, but what I have noticed is that the one post I've seen that does this is one of the first results when you search queerplatonic on Tumblr. Which is a problem. Seeing as the op has not responded to any of the corrections, I was thinking of ways of trying to combat that, and I think the best course of action there is to create a competing post (that's equally pretty, since I think that's a factor in why it spread). It wouldn't take down the other post, but it would hopefully provide enough conflicting information that people stop to think about which is correct. I'd been working on that with a couple other people and it fell through the cracks - I'm thinking it's time to start working on that again.
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