nisse

i'm "properly" out (actually stated in words "i am aromantic") to a few of friends, three offline and several online. otherwise, like a few others in this thread, i don't bring it up unless specifically asked, especially if i don't know the person. i've gotten questions like "are you a lesbian" to which i mostly wobble my head and say i'm queer (which i am! lol). 

coming out is a constant thing anyway, in a cisheteronormative world, especially with amatonormativity thrown in. so i don't really consider myself "in the closet" - i'm in the closet about my gender, but not my orientation - a lot of the time i just don't think it's the business of the other person hah. and on a pure personal level i hate how i feel like i'm attention seeking by coming out deliberately - took me aaaages to come out to my friends who i trust 100%, purely because it felt like i was doing a "pay attention to me now! look at me!". which is a personal issue, really.

5 hours ago, roboticanary said:

Wedding March - does anyone agree with me that the wedding march is a bit rubbish. Of all the classical music out there this is the thing that gets played at weddings. In a better world we could have the 1812 overture complete with party poppers. Or how about Vivaldi's Spring. 

It doesn't quite work in English, but when we were wee we would always sing "Now you're married, you can regret all you want because now you're married" to the tunes of the wedding march (i translated that poorly, good lord. for anyone who knows the language: "Nå erru gift, nå erru gift, nå kan du angre for nå erru gift"), which put a grim twist to it i think. mostly it came from kids bored at weddings hah.

It's not quite a song i hate, but lyrically I always liked Hey There Delilah a lot better when I imagined Delilah as his young daughter he was far away from, instead of his romantic interest. It doesn't work with all the lyrics, but overall i find the idea of a father sending his daughter songs he wrote and recorded for her while he's away a lot sweeter than the actual song. some of the wording just irks me? like "And we'll just laugh along because we know/That none of them have felt this way". alright dude, your feelings aren't superior.

There's a lot of possibilities here, and of course only you know the truth.

1. You might be craving a QPR (queer-platonic relationship), or something similar. A deep bond with this person, without making it romantic in nature.
2. Maybe you're experiencing a squish?
3. You're grey-ro, or demi-romantic! Worth looking into

I definitely get not wanting to hurt them, especially if you are unsure if these feelings might fade overtime, or you misinterpreted them. I'm glad you don't want to treat them as your test subject. The best way to avoid this is simply to be open with them! If it feels safe, tell them how you feel, and that you feel confused and don't want to hurt them. Maybe they would be willing to try something, fully with the knowledge that it may not develop into anything romantic? Maybe they're willing to try a QPR?

i believe squishes and crushes are similar in that way, they have the same "purpose" kind of? not quite the word i'm looking for, but.

for me, squishes have always faded as soon as we become friends/close in some way, or they've faded naturally if the person is no longer in my life. i believe it's similar with crushes, because having a crush =/= being in love, y'know? crushes and squishes can be a bit intense, while if you become closer that fades into a more comfortable love. which isn't worse or better than the squish, you're just in a different state of being. sometimes i've had squishes on people i really wouldn't fit with - they've usually only lasted a day or so, and they really made me question my orientation because they felt so intense and out of left field! it's only happened once or twice, though.

all that said, a squish is not a required step before a friendship/QPR/what have you, in the same way a crush isn't before a romantic relationship. 

your squishes could also be informed by different attractions, without making them non-platonic. i see you're aroace, but i do know allo-aros who experience sexual attraction but still wouldn't label their attraction as anything but platonic. sexual AND platonic, you feel? in that way, maybe your squishes are informed by an aesthetic or sensual attraction, but still platonic. 

1. 5-19. This was a hard one though, as I didn't know about "squish" for a long time and assumed it's just how people experience a precursor to friendship. I'm kinda wondering if 0-4 would be more accurate, oops. it's also been so long since i last had a squish, for uuuh several reasons, i've kind of forgotten how it feels?? weird.
2. 1-4 weeks. Again, hard to determine, but in my experience my squishes have faded as soon as we are friends, or if we never hang out regularly (not hang out as in, we plan and meet up on purpose. Being at the same party, e.g., and talking while there also counts). The squish fading when we are friends doesn't mean I don't want to be their friend anymore, btw. it's just that initial "aaah they're so cool i wanna hang out with them always!!" intense feeling fades, and i settle into a more comfortable "we're friends :) that's so nice" state.
3. Squishes on different genders feel different. BUT, this has less to do with attraction, and more to do with society. I'm afab, and very much still gets read as a woman in my day-to-day, and have for a long time had a hard time making friends with men - not because of anything the men i get squishes on do, or how they act, but just because of a good mix of amatonormativity and heteronormativity I've a crippling fear that any affection I show will be interpreted as flirting. This hasn't happened yet (i hope - no one has told me they thought i flirted with them, anyway), but the fear is there. Because of that the squishes feel different.
   That said though, there is an element of attraction/orientation in there as well. My squishes are often heavily informed by sensual and aesthetic attraction, and I've definitely experienced some kind of weak sexual or romantic attraction (just never enough to bother with any other ID than aro). What attracts me in women vs men vs nb, masc vs fem vs GNC, all that good fun stuff, is definitely different and not equal across the line.

that was a too long answer i feel, haha. i mostly tried to parse through my own thoughts here, as i haven't really thought much about this before! 

Keep in mind that wanting to be in a conventional romantic relationship is different from experiencing romantic attraction! It sounds to me like you've never experience that, in which case aromantic would fit best. But as Holmbo says, demi goes under the umbrella!

ooh i just read the Circle by Dave Eggers (good book, but unfortunately already irrelevant kind of? ending was good), and the MC has two romantic interestests that are both.... meh.

I couldn't decide if I didn't like how it was written because of my orientiation, so I just didn't click with it even though I've enjoyed plenty of fictional romantic plots in the past, or if Eggers just cannot convincingly write that kind of relationship. I've landed on the latter, it veered into "men writing women" too much. (that said though, he doesn't really for the rest of the books! besides that plot point, his female characters are solid and well written. no "boobily breasted down the stairs" lol). 

legal stuff is a huge reason, it's one of the reasons marriage equality was (and is, in many countries) such a huge milestone in queer activism. it's a big thing in disabled activism now too - in the UK and USA (and to a degree, here in Norway as well, I believe) among other things you lose benefits as a disabled person if you get married (making you dependant on your spouses income, which is both a huge blow to your independence as an individual, and your spouse might not make enough for two in the first place). if you don't get married you lose out on certain things, like visitation if you get hospitalized, or inheritance rights.

imo, best case scenario would be to do away with all of that and normalize throwing a party for your commitment if you want to. that would help poly folks too. i definitely get wanting the spectacle around a marriage, i've been to a few and they can be very fun! and wanting to publicly announce your love an commitment for one or more people is understandable. if it wasn't as expectant as it is, and didn't bring so many legal benefits when just as committed relationships don't get them simply because they don't want to get married, or they're too unconventional, it'd be better imo. 

i know for a fact my mam only got married because it was expected and it brought certain benefits (my dad, her second husband, wanted to adopt my sister so she'd have the same legal rights as his daughter as i do, which he only could if him and mam were married). she's twice divorced now and very happy that way!

2 hours ago, YXSHINN said:

Would it be okay to identify as lesbian as well?

i mean, i'm a bit of an anarchist when it comes to labels haha, so i'd say yeah if that makes sense to you, go for it. for me, it makes sense to use lesbian as well as aroace, so i don't see why it wouldn't be the same when using lesbian and (non-SAM) aro! if you just say lesbian aro you might have to clarify that you don't mean homosexual aro sometimes, but like ?‍♂️

generally i see queer labels as inherently made to ruffle up the accepted way of things, so i think using lesbian and (non-SAM) aro is more than fine!!

oh, ADDENDUM: i don't think you will find much consensus among non-SAM aros, because in general what it means to use it is so personal, you know? anything from trauma to squicks relating to sexuality, to a disconnect from asexuality, to "just like it". imo, there's no need for a consensus because what it means is up to you. 

then again, ironically, many might disagree with me there haha. those are my Thots and Onions though!

not alloaro, but recently started using just aro myself! have you looked into non-SAM aro? what precisely it means is different for everyone, but for me at least  just don't connect with the ace bit that much. i sometimes still use ace, if it comes up, just to make it clear to allo-allos that aromantic =/= automatically asexual, you know. the general feeling of connecting more to their aro part than their ace part is a sentiment i've seen from a lot of aroaces (not all! but quite a few), especially the ones who hang out here more than AVEN.

honestly i'd love a label for aroace that isn't aroace. i've seen a couple of others talk about this before too, people who want that orientation to be seen as a whole identifier, and not a mashup of two. that's where i'm at too - it's not that i am aro AND ace, i'm aroace. and for now, for me personally, that idea comes across better when using just aro, or non-SAM aro. 

but yeah just wanted to chime in that i'm technically aroace, but i've decided to just use aro!

on the main page, where you see others' status updates (right hand side underneath "topics"), you can post your own! i've grabbed a screenshot for ya

yeah i'd say straight up block his number, don't even engage tbh. you've already rejected him twice, he doesn't need more engagement (good that you're ignoring him! but in case he calls again)

i also want to add, i think you made the right decision not saying you are aro. I've several lesbian friends who have been in similar situations, and have told the man "I am a lesbian, I will never be interested", and the man has just taken that as a challenge. it's unfortunate, but as you say i think he would just start arguing that he could fix you or similar. 

absolutely agree with Autumn there 100%. Ghosting is not harsh at all, especially as this guy is a stranger. He's the one in the wrong here. You said you were uninterested, he pestered you for a phone number essentially. I wouldn't even want to be an acquaintance of his knowing he acts like this.

Here's a secret: you can use these labels however you want. You can combine up and down and to the left, you can use Aegosexual and not Asexual, it's completely up to you! Me, for example: I am not a man, but i am a genderqueer man. I am queer, and aromantic, and asexual, I usually just say either queer or aro. I'm gay too! That's just how it is. So yes, if you find that these labels work for you, use them! Combine them!

Two points:

1. Asexual is both a sexuality in itself, and an umbrella term/a spectrum. Most people use aspec or asexual-spectrum to clarify. So aegosexual would be under the asexual umbrella, as it is an offshoot of that, but that doesn't necessarily make someone asexual, if that makes sense?
2. Just as you can use and combine labels at will, you don't have to label every little part of yourself. Labels, and microlabels, are super helpful - BUT it is very easy to get lost in the sauce. I've stopped looking for labels that precisely describe me, because I am very happy and comfortable with those I use right now.
3. Some labels are just for you, others you tell people around you. So, for example: you could say you're neptunic to let people know what kind of people you're attracted to, but not really say aegosexual unless someone asks or it comes up*. 

I hope this helps you somewhat! You're also free to totally ignore this, of course. This is just how I think about labels, and how the philosophy I live by. Absolutely no need to follow it yourself if you don't find it helpful!

*This is not to say you need to do this! Just an example using the labels you mentioned. You're free to do whatever (:

I try every year because I enjoy the game-aspect of it (filling out a number and watching the statistics go up is FUN) but I never manage to follow through fhjgkjd. I'm sure there's some discord groups though! And the forums of nano are p active too as I remember :)

1 hour ago, Jedi said:

You have concluded that women don't want friends?? for some reason?? and that all allo women are bound by fate to have jealous boyfriends? And then you admit you never even had any female friends you just made this whole thing up. Don't assume the intentions of people you don't even know.

it's a bit clumsily written, but I think Ikarus was trying to express an inner fear/subconscious bias, not something he logically thinks, if that makes sense. Like, I know that the guy friends I have wouldn't suddenly think I'm flirting out of nowhere, but I still have that fear.

that's how I read it, though, I might be wrong.

but to add on: yeah, Ikarus, you should try to get some women friends. they're pretty great (:

I grew up in a mix of muslim, christian, ex-christian, and atheist environment. Which is to say, I grew up in the poorer area of my city, with a bigger percentage of immigrants and multicultural stuff, and more muslims. My country is culturally (lutheran) christian, so that was very much present too; my mam grew up christian and (her words) broke up with Jesus when she was 15, so she is that particular ex-christian atheist; and my dad grew up in an atheist family.

As well as that I was brought up by feminist and otherwise leftist parents. As such I think I've been extremely lucky? I've been exposed to many different ways to view (romantic) love and sex, both religiously and otherwise - I don't know why this is, but my area also has a higher amount of parents who are either divorced, never married in the first place, or single parents. I've seen many combinations of families through my friends growing up: parents who got married at 19 and are still together, people who co-parent their child but the child was a result of a one night stand, divorced parents who still have sunday dinner together every week and bring their new partners. And less blissful ones too. My parents never pushed me nor my sister into thinking we HAD to get a partner. Even now, when my sister has been in several committed relationship and I have been in none, and I've never straight up told them my orientation, they've never questioned me about that. 

So while I've still felt that pressure of finding romantic love (I don't know anyone else IRL who are aro, AFAIK), I've been incredibly lucky in not having just one example of life - husband and wife and two and a half kids, like. It took a while for me to realise and accept that I am aromantic, but I've always felt surprisingly fine not dating and finding an SO. 

YES absolutely. and I feel you on the man thing - i'm not out gender-wise in my day to day life. i also have a hard time parsing what's flirting and what's just friendly talking, so sometimes i'll think someone is flirting and i figure i should shut that down soon-as, but then i have a little goblin in my head go "oh don't you think highly of yourself, thinking they're all flirting with you, as if"

it's almost worse when i see allo friends having no issue keeping that platonic friend relationship with people of genders they are attracted to/that are attracted to their gender. it becomes this intense self examination and i get stuck in my own head, over-analyzing everything i say.

love that circle ?  

absolutely :) and if i may, you should look into queerplatonic relationships and see if that vibes with you! it might not, and that's ofc totally okay.

i've been thinking about the same thing! i'm no sure for myself, but i've a wee inkling i'm not as ace as previously thought, it's just that i hate being read as a woman. i was never that attached to my ace label anyway, i mostly use it to clarify that some aros do have sexual attraction, i am just not one of them. but maybe i am, actually, now that i'm more open to myself about my gender. which feels weird after ten plus years!!

this was perhaps unhelpful haha sorry if so! but you're not the only one with these thoughts. 

11 hours ago, Scoop said:

I can't comment on Tapas so here will do. I really fucking love the use of colour in the first episode, I would have thought greyscale would be kind of distant, but the scene feels really warm. The shape of your characters are so appealing, v nice to look at.

thank you so much!! i think i'll go back to greyscale - defo less work. 

11 hours ago, Scoop said:

Baz's cats are the best thing about the comic, hands down. I am curious about what kind of world they live in if the cats can be taken out and about and into places of work haha - and how do I get there btw???

haha her cats are my favourites as well. my friend came up with the name Hughey Louie and the Sneeze and I had to incorporate it somehow! I've actually seen a couple of pubs with the Pet Friendly sign - not many though, and I'm unsure about laws and rules? but i think as long as they don't have access to areas where food is prepped, legally it's fine and it's up to the premises! i DON'T think people usually bring their cats, just dogs, but this is ~vague unnamed comic strip city~ so they do there ^^

11 hours ago, Scoop said:

Bruise is my favourite episode so far. The relatability, the dramatic faces at the end, the way you wrote the dialogue (both the word choices and the placement of the words) gives the scene a lot of movement. Do you have a consistent update schedule? Otherwise I'll just check in at random probably. 

awww thank you so much!! i'm still insecure about both pacing and punchlines/endings, so this is so good to hear! 

i don't atm - i really should work on that buffer, but i get so excited when I finish something I just want to post it immediately. i am currently working on a new one which will probably be finished today or tomorrow? but yeah for now, checking in randomly is fine! my plan is to eventually go weekly or twice a week

thank you again for your kind words!!

Whelp folks, I took the leap. There's only one out so far, and I'm partly using it as a way to get better at both drawing and comic-making. I'm kinda unfamiliar with Tapas, so I think it got too compressed. 

https://tapas.io/series/CupidsAro

check it out if ye want to, feel no obligation to keep up with it ?  i'm currently working on a buffer!

On 10/5/2020 at 9:55 AM, Rolo said:

The existence of the term "aspec" which includes both aromantic and asexual identities is confusing.

conflating aroness and aceness is infuriating and just plain wrong, but i think the idea is the sharing an experience of not having an attraction many people deem inherently human. i wish alloaces wouldn't do this thing, because i genuinely believe there's sense in aspec as a community of aros, aces, and all the other folks in-between. the lack of an attraction is what we have in common, like.

i gotta say, i don't understand HOW alloaces conflate us?? like... ye KNOW asexual =/= aromantic, that was a whole slogan at some point - not in as many words, but same sentiment. and especially the person OP is talking about, with the insistence even after you've told them? what's the cognitive dissonance here.

that sounds extremely tiresome omg