Firebird

On 2/17/2024 at 8:46 AM, Mult said:

I think men and women can and should be friends (I hate that movie How Harry Met Sally that just enforces the idea that they can't), but I will say it is difficult for me to stay friends in the same way after someone has confessed to me.

I've dealt with people not respecting rejection and still trying to get me to date them after I've said no that it has made me kind of paranoid. Now whenever someone whom I know was attracted to me asks for something like to hang out or for a hug or something, I get worried about whether they're trying to subtly convey their romantic interest and whether I am "leading them on". This isn't just between men and women though because I had this experience with a girl I've known since childhood who cried over me rejecting her, said she accepted it but then kept asking me if feelings were blossoming between us. 

As for dudes, I've had a coworker text me about how he finds me sexy and it's just hard to forget about that the next time I see him after rejecting him—he seemed to take it well, but then I found out from someone else that he's married with a kid? Like, bro? What?—I feel I need to worry so much about my body language or what I say to avoid giving people the wrong idea. And I also met and talked with a guy online who is an apprentice plumber like myself and we bonded over plumbing, but he still decided to send me a message out of the blue saying "I want you to sit on my face." How can things be the same after that? It's like trying to put toothpaste back into the tube.

It's a lot of stress to worry about other people's attraction or romantic/sexual interest in me that it makes a friendship more difficult or complicated. I can't control other people's romantic/sexual thoughts or feelings but I don't really want to hear about them in regards to myself.

I want people to know that I would say no to any relationship romantic or sexual and that I am not someone who can be persuaded on won over in that regard. It doesn't matter what their gender is, I am equally uninterested in a relationship.

 

I like friendships regardless of the person's gender. I like bonding over things like The Legend of Zelda or my work just as long as the relationship stays platonic. 

I guess the only way you can be safe is by only hanging around people that have no chance of being attracted to you. But then again, I can't relate well to straight women and gay men at all, I only feel at home when talking to other lesbians... but the romantic BS causes shit to devolve into the worst scenarios imaginable every time.

5 hours ago, DeltaAro said:

So if you're pan, you can't be friends with anyone?

Not what I implied, not going to clarify what's already clear.

6 hours ago, nonmerci said:

Nothing about what you say is normal. The only thing that may be typical is people pretending to love what you love, but I think it is more something young people do when they are still learning how to proceed in relationships.

So that's not typical alloromantic things, but big red flags. I'm sorry to see how unlucky you were with guys. Seem that you met a lot of toxic assholes.

I don't even date guys... I'm a lesbian

For once, I'm going to have to side with the men here, and say that gynophilic men and women can't be friends. I had to ditch all of my gynophilic male friends because of romantic feelings for me. It's easy to pretend that romantic feelings can just stay as nothing more than feelings. However, what eventually happens (in my experience) is the dude that has caught these feelings starts acting in a way that is toxic, manipulative, unethical, whatever the hell he thinks is necessary to make something happen that can't happen. I'm even starting to be sussed out by gynophilic enbies and women for similar reasons, except they are a lot less likely to catch feelings for me (because unlike men, they don't go for the first woman that shows them any sort of attention, even if it's platonic) but when they do... I am beginning to get more and more the feeling that I should just back tf away. As the saying goes: "All is fair in [romantic] love and war" and I am beginning to take this saying more and more at face value, in the sense that just like people at war can and will commit atrocities if they can get away with it, so too will people commit atrocities in the pursuit of a romantic goal, however unrealistic. Except the latter isn't judged as heavily as it should be, because "It's all in the name of love, how sweet/romantic".

I used to have only one male friend (the rest I dropped long before him because they tried getting into my pants), who I used to think is very close. Recently he started acting super toxic and manipulative, looking for every opportunity to put me down and complain about how I'm supposedly not giving him enough in the friendship. It later turned out that he's been living in a delusional romantic fantasy for about a year, and when I had to turn him down, he decided to retaliate by not being friends with me. So now I don't have any male friends, and I'm happier for it. I don't want to touch romance with a ten meter long pole anymore, because of how poorly I'm treated when I am the victim of romantic attraction. Next time there is even a slight sign of them, I'm ditching the other person.

8 hours ago, DeltaAro said:

I guess that "confuses" them, to put it very nicely. But remember: it's not your fault!!

It shouldn't confuse "them", because I'm always very specific and explicit with what I want. When I want nothing more than a hookup, and I explicitly say that, it better stay nothing more than a hookup, etc.

14 hours ago, Neon said:

chess is not a balanced game because the pawns are worth less to the player than the rest of the pieces so the world implied by chess has no equality, and thus no balance

You need to drink water every day

You don't need to drink water every day, you only need to drink it every day if you want to live healthily.

Iced tea is good

16 hours ago, DeltaAro said:

1. - 3. could be a clumsy attempt at PUA / NLP manipulation techniques. Or behavior caused by mental disorders, sounds like borderline and schizotypal PD.

4. - 7. some allos exhibit such behaviors if they're extremely desperate and obsessively fixated, but this is considerably outside the norm.

I guess something like this: believing that you're that quirky, cheerful special girl that will lighten up their lives, pull them out of their depressing existence...

(looked at examples for movies here and found out that I instinctively avoided most movies with that trope)

Probably your aro-ness eggs them on. But to this degree? I would be scared.

 

Yeah, I currently am scared too. Going out into the dating world (dating used very broadly here, cause I still crave sexual relations) is terrifying due to the history of people, for some reason, thinking that they gotta use unethical behavior/manipulation tactics to get with me.

2 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

No, like everyone said, this is not normal. Are you a woman who dresses strangely or hangs out with a lot of nerds? They might be Manic Pixie Dream Girl-ing you.

Spot on 😅. I dress very unconventionally, and I hang out with a lot of nerds, because I am one myself. It's also important to note that this kind of behavior happens regardless of gender, however, women and femme enbies get pulled into it faster because I actually am willing to have sex with them and more, I presume. What exactly do you mean by Manic Pixie Dream Girl-ing?

The incomprehensibility of your statement makes it wrong.

Fried chicken tastes good.

I've had some alloromantics tell me that the following behavior is not normal, but considering how blinded by their own romantic feelings someone can be, I wanted to ask fellow aros if the following is typical alloromantic behavior, or if there is something more going on, and if so, what is it:

1. Ignoring any sort of boundaries set by me and/or agreements we had as to where we stand. For example, if I wanted to have casual sex with someone, and we agree that there is nothing more to it, right after we have sex, they start discussing moving in together, pursuing a romantic relationship, etc etc. I also notice that I can't be friends with people who have romantic feelings for me, because instead of trying to form a genuine connection, all that's on their mind is "How do I get her to like me romantically?", and it's so painfully obvious, even when they're trying to be subtle about it.
2. Delusions consisting of the following:
   1. I am the perfect person for them. Whatever traits they want in a partner, they automatically think I have them, or that I have them "deep down inside" or whatever. It's creepy talking to these people, because it feels like they're talking to a mirage, as opposed to engaging with me directly.
   2. Believing we have some sort of ESP. Then getting super pissed whenever I either can't read their telepathic messages, or whenever they discover that what they thought I communicated to them telepathically, and what I really wanted from them, are two completely different things. One thing they've tried doing was telling me we're "not meant for each other" as a way to get me to pursue them romantically back, which, surprise surprise, doesn't make me pursue them, and then they get pissed that I don't, because how could I have misssed their telepathic message asking me to pursue them!?!
   3. Believing that I have any sort of attraction to them, romantic or otherwise. My roommate lived in a romantic fantasy/delusion for a whole year, and when I told him that, surprise surprise, I have no romantic feelings for him, he "broke up" with me, and I had to remind them that we're not in a relationship in the first place. 🙄
3. Pretending to like the same things I do, think the same way I do, value the same things I do. It's such a mockery of the things I care about in life, to pretend to also be into them, and butchering the meaning and value of them mercilessly. Is this supposed to be attractive to alloromantics?
4. Mental capabilities go on a steep decline. Mfer turns from a mature adult to being dumber than a toddler.
5. They become my mental prisoner. I can tell them to do literally anything, and they'll do it. If I didn't have a heart, I could exploit the fuck out of this mechanic.
6. They start neglecting their friends, family, loved ones, work... everything in their life outside of me.
7. They lose all purpose in life, other than serving me. The smarter people on here can guess what dark spiral this mindset leads to.

The most tragic fact about this all is, is that other than the spiral of obsession and self destruction they go down, they then start resenting me for literally something that is not my fault. They think I have asserted power over them to try and control them, because they start realizing that I do not reciprocate any of the above behaviors. They think it's unfair and that I'm manipulating them, but to be completely honest, all the delusions and mental prisons they find themselves in are not my doing, and is completely their own fault. They say things like "I can never be good enough for you" (after they try to do something for me, and it turns out, I never wanted them to do it and/or it makes things worse than if they had done nothing), "I do so much for you, and you don't do anything for me", and "I work so hard for you and you're ungrateful for it". Any time I tell other alloromantics about this behavior, they agree that it's toxic, unhealthy, unfair to me, so then why is it that every time an alloromantic engages with me in any romantic context, this happens? Why is it that whenever I try to have a relationship with someone (whether casual sex, serious long term, or just a friendship but with unwelcome romantic undertones) the other person withers away like a flower so easily?

Small update: I have finally been able to figure out what pure unadulterated romance is like, when everything else (sexual attraction, emotional attraction, sensual attraction, platonic love etc) is stripped away. It's called limerance, and when looking it up, the characteristics closely match what I've been describing all along. So yeah, it very much is normal behavior for alloromantics... sadly. I've joined the romance repulsed camp. I don't want anything to do with it anymore.

The problem is, in my experience, you can't just friendzone someone. Alloromantics seem to be deaf to the word "no", and being a friend still leaves them in the "If I just try hard enough, they'll realize we were meant to be together all along, they're just delusional, etc" mindset. Best you can do is just completely disengage, hell, even rudeness will spare both of you emotional trouble in the long run. There is nothing wrong with being rude in situations like this. To be completely honest, the behavior of this dude you described is pretty creepy, so the moment someone tries to invade your personal space, it's more than ok to tell them to fuck off.

On 9/7/2023 at 11:21 PM, alto said:

You know what, sure.  I'll take any Indian tea.

Laughs in ice cold pure black assam chai (no sugar or milk)

22 hours ago, alto said:

The Indian kind.  Milky with spices.

So any Indian tea?

On 8/30/2023 at 7:21 PM, alto said:

I like chai

What kind of chai? Chai just means tea

On 8/28/2023 at 2:03 PM, DeltaAro said:

I see ya!

2nd Flush Darjeeling. I also like to drink Da Hong Pao.

I have never heard of either of those 😭

On 8/28/2023 at 2:15 PM, CanadianBird said:

I love me a good lemon & ginger brew

An excellent choice. Haven't had that in forever.

Personally, I drink peppermint tea, an assortment of berry teas, hibiscus, lemon, and whenever I want to drink black tea, I strongly prefer assam. I often mix my teas too!

What kind of tea do you drink?

7 hours ago, roboticanary said:

nice.

as for topic nothing much on my in particular but there are a couple of topics on the old ideas doc that i think might be interesting

Intersection with gender identity

Intersection with relationship anarchy
What aro resources do we need? 

any of those would be interesting to me. the last one probably is the one i have more to say than others but perhaps try to stick one of these subjects in over the next few months.

If we're talking about intersection, intersection with sexuality is certainly big too. Asexual and allosexual aros are gonna have wildly different experiences being aro, gay, bi, lesbian and straight aros will vary between one another too

If it looks just as good, if not better, than human made art, why the hell would it not be real art? I don't remember there being a prerequisite for who made the art for it to be considered art, so why are ai suddenly gatekept from this?

Also, to people whining about AI taking lots of art, and recompiling pieces of art into one piece being a way to "steal art"... what the fuck do y'all think human artists do? There are no original ideas, and everything our "creative" minds generate is the product of other things we've seen broken down and put back together in some other form. When humans do this, it's perfectly ok, but when an AI does this, it's arts theft. Seriously the double standards are baffling.

On 8/19/2023 at 6:05 PM, CanadianBird said:

As long as you aren't having lunch with a bunch of TERFs, I think it's awesome (if circumstances allow). Possibly meet other aros, or a subtle way to politely tell people where you stand. 

Wait, TERFs are going after aros now? What the actual fuck 😭

On 8/19/2023 at 3:20 PM, bluster kong said:

Title is pretty self explanatory, is there any reason? I feel like all it would be would be a semi awkward conversation that wouldn’t end up having any real affect on anything but I could be wrong. Being aro doesn’t really affect me in my day to day life so I don’t see why it would affect anyone else

I can't not tell people I'm aro, because I see it as a way to set a boundary. I have been the unfortunate target of romantic BS too many times, and it's so traumatic, that any arophobic BS people might say is nothing compared to having to deal with romanticism. Not to mention, I feel like I can assert my boundaries a lot more easily if I declare the reason for the existence of said boundary in the first place. Not to mention, having an explanation for my behavior and way of thinking just makes it so much easier to connect with people, as opposed to putting on a mask of being someone I'm not.

On 8/16/2023 at 6:24 AM, me_kachu said:

I'll eat anything but pizza

 

Eyes speak and mouths see

I think it's fairly obvious what's wrong with the statement.

Glasses make you look nerdy.

Try an aro ring. It's super subtle, and as far as I know, is identifiable almost exclusively by fellow aros. It's simply a white ring worn on the left middle finger, simple as that. Such an item is widely available and easy to find a good price for.

2 hours ago, me_kachu said:

OH MY GOOOOOOOOD

That happened to me sooooooo much as a kid. It was so annoying! So I had to sit next to this kid I did not like, no siree due to the seating arrangements and my BFF,I won't say names, said "OMG! What will your kids be called?" Then the whole class was singing "Me_kachu (no name reveal) and Kid(that's not his name) sitting in a tree" you know the rest. Has that ever happened to you?

 

 

Me_kachu, signing off

 

Yes, when I was a kid, even before going to preschool, this kind of shit would happen all the fucking time, and looking back, it creeps me out.

Wrong, dress codes are critical to be followed in historical reenactment.

Pizza tastes great.

I think a key difference is the attraction aros face (platonic) is based on objective factors that are felt proportionately to said factors. The more we have in common, the more we understand each other, the more platonic attraction there is. On the other hand, romantic attraction is an arbitrary fudge factor that can feel alienating and objectifying. Someone may have zero reason to like or be interested in me, due to us having nothing in common, but yet they are head over heels and willing to commit to a lifetime of being with me, completely ignoring who I really am as a person. I believe the rationality of platonic attraction and sheer irrationality and randomness of romantic attraction is a clear way to distinguish the two, and is a great way to probe the question of aromanticism. Romantic feelings are not stronger than platonic feelings, they are simply a completely different mechanism of human psychology, and I would argue, are much weaker and much more easy to break than a close platonic bond that doesn't go through the idealization to disappointment cycle.

I made sure to come out and tell everyone the moment I figured out I'm aromantic, in order to make it perfectly clear to a society that puts romantic attraction on a pedestal, that such a concept should not be applied to me. If someone decides to ignore this clear boundary set by an aromantic, that means said person ignoring the boundary is a piece of shit, and is best to keep out of your life at all costs.