Mirrorreaper

12 hours ago, NullVector said:

I think you can find those discussions on here, if you dig around a little.

 

Myself and others have, for example, speculated on here that romantic love plays a significant ideological role in maintaining state-capitalist system hegemony. As in, people may be more likely to put up with the somewhat shitty 'stick' of our present social contract in the context a degenerating/failing overarching system, if the 'carrot' of transcendent romantic fulfillment is being ever dangled tantalisingly in front of them by that same system? In this sense, I think romantic love has come to take on a similar ideological buttressing role within late stage state-capitalist systems to the role that religious belief in the afterlife took on in a previous era (back when Marx was writing about it as 'the opiate of the people'). Romantic love gets taken almost spiritually, as something that can be expected to wash away all our worldly sins and troubles, finally bring fulfillment and wholeness to empty and fractured lives (just listen to the songs on popular radio and many of them strike me as having this underlying message). And, crucially, romantic love does this in a way that IMO presents no meaninful challenge to the ideological basis of the system that so disproportionaty promotes it (similar to how encouraging focus on fulfillment in the afterlife could be used to distract from agitations for fulfillment in this life).

Perhaps I could find them but I dont know what the rules are regarding necroposts. Personally I havent found ANYTHING in my searches specifically about dealing with hedonic treadmill stuff Which is why I felt fine posting it after searching.

i also think there may be a Cultural clash here as I am not from a country that treats romance as a (christian) spiritual element. That isnt to say amatonormativity isnt an issue but my country is not spiritual or religious so things like romance and marriage are treated in a more secular manner.

I do think this has affected how we perceive romance largely due to the idea of Beautiful Romantic Love Stories being popularised during the medieval in western europe Which was heavily religious. 

But Im looking more at how aromanticism can be seen as a natural neurological Orientation the way we perceive sexual and gender Orientations now(research with MRIs on LGBT brains and whatnot showing differences). 

I get you. Im very "sam" myself because Im very allosexual and it works for me but lately Ive also been wondering why Just Aromantic isnt "enough" for people. Is it because the split attraction model was so widely promoted online in earlier years? I dont have an answer but Ive seen a shift on tumblr toward embracing "nonsam" aromanticism due to a lot of people conflating aro with aroace. Im definitely NOT ace or Even demi but as Ive gotten older Im less inclined to pursue those types of relationships and what I want out of relationships in general has changed and Ive begun to feel more comfortable with seeing Aromantic as a whole identity.

I have the white aro ring. 

The rest I just generally dress in a very OUT way and am usually immediately clocked as queer. 

33 minutes ago, Cristal Gris said:

 

I must admit, this is the first time i hear that. I don't say i don't believe you, i am just very surprised.

 

I won't say i understand everthing (i actually read your links, but i am very bad with long texts and i think i lack context ). But about oriented aroace, i read the links i your links. I... think i can see what you mean? Well, i didn't really checked the coiner of the term themself. 

 

Now that i think about it, i think i remember why "angled" was coined in the first place. It would make sense. But since i am neither grey, oriented aroace or angled aroace, i dont have much to say about it.

 

I will keep it in mind that being said.

It's from the tumblr mogai community Which is incredibly loaded with arguments and callouts and collection of receipts. Another problem is most of them are VERY young (like 14-17) which isnt a problem in itself but there can be a lot of misunderstandings surrounding indentity politics and social things regarding the non-cishet communities on tumblr. Generally these days Im wary of any terminology originating on tumblr. 

Hey there friend! The scariest part is all this working up toward it. 

You arent lacking in anything and you arent being cruel to your partner. Thats what you need to know first off. I got married impulsively before I came out so I have a husband. 

The best thing you can do is have a frank talk with your partner about how you experience being aro, and what each person's expectations for the relationship going forward is.

In our case, we decided to try an open relationship, then poly, and then back to being open. Everyones relationships with their partners changes over time. That doesnt mean it can't still satisfy BOTH of you and your needs. 

And the positives: you also wont feel the dramatic drop after the honeymoon period that can really stress allos out. Most older allos who have been married for years dont experience the same level of drama younger allos do anyway, at least if theyve been together a really long time. 

And finally: the Internet makes this stuff scarier; most likely they will hear youre aro and then move on. 

But the best thing to do is just be really Frank about each others needs, and Id say you should do that with friends too. 

You got this! Good luck.

Let me preface this with the fact that this is an idea I have and if you Google it nothing comes up so Im starting from scratch here but I think it could be a valuable discussion for us aros to have:

Among alloromantics, the panic surrounding the hedonic treadmill and the return to baseline after the high they feel over romantic sensations can create a toxic feedback loop of demanding emotional labour or leaving a partner when the relationship changes.

Some aros like me simply dont have that response, or our treadmill loops are smaller/or more stable, and thus the stress of romance/losing the "honeymoon period feelings" simply isnt there for us. 

Some allos I think are obsessed with chasing the high point of the treadmill that baseline can feel traumatic because amatonormativity tells us that it's a failure on your part, or well on anyones part for not loving someone the way it tells you that you must(Im sure you've seen it before play out in the trope of some people having kids to keep a marriage together, or in the standard "I dont want our relationship to change" TV trope.

Some people neurologically and psychologically are less sensitive to the loops of the hedonic treadmill. There have been studies Which show that emotionally romantic relationships can be quite rocky and the pursuit of romantic "happiness " can be stressful for couples/polycules/allos. 

Whats the hedonic treadmill?

The hedonic treadmill, also known as hedonic adaptation, is the observed tendency of humans to quickly return to a relatively stable level of happiness despite major positive or negative events or life changes.^[1] According to this theory, as a person makes more money, expectations and desires rise in tandem, which results in no permanent gain in happiness. Brickman and Campbell coined the term in their essay "Hedonic Relativism and Planning the Good Society" (1971).^[2]During the late 1990s, the concept was modified by Michael Eysenck, a British psychologist, to become the current "hedonic treadmill theory" which compares the pursuit of happiness to a person on a treadmill, who has to keep walking just to stay in the same place. From Wikipedia

The reason for this post: I see a LOT of the dominating discourse being about our validity and legitimacy, or glossaries of terms, and little to nothing discussing the state of being oriented aro, or, how, like other oppressive societal regimes, amatonormativity as it stands today hurts everyone. I just wish to see more in depth and more mature discussions being had about being aromantic. 

On 7/26/2019 at 3:38 AM, Mark said:

Potentially yes. Given that I lean towards to definition of "platonic" being something entirely non physical. Though it's self evidently possible for affection to be expressed in non physical terms.
 

I think having "higher in commitment" being in the QPR definition to be a bad thing. Since it buys into the, amantonormative, notion that some types of relationship are "more than" other types.
(It's possible, though rare, to find alloromantics who are more commited to non-romantic relationships than romantic ones.)

 

I specifically omitted Friends With Benefits from the options.

Partly because of the all to common (mis)assumption that "benefits" equals "sex(ual)".Though also because, especially allos, can treat the "friends" part as euphemistic.

 

Some of these aspects notably that romantic partners also be "best friends" appear to be recent additions. I don't recall encountering it 20 or so years ago.
It also appears to have become more the norm for those in romantic relationships to do everything "as a couple". Essentially "soclal monogamy" taken to an extreme.

The second paragraph of this article describes the current kind of expectations.

Wow a lot happened in this discussions. im reading the research now but yeah I really Vibe with this idea of "social monogamy taken to an extreme". I am so independent I couldnt tolerate having to "do everything as a couple" and I remember a particular kind of grief in young adulthood and adolescence when I discovered boys were using me as a wingman without my consent to get to a girl(when I perceived us as being very close friends) and essentially never speaking to me again once they started dating said girl because now they were a "unit" a single "item". Thats an aspect of modern romance i find absolutely intolerable. 

I would advise ANYONE to talk to the person their interested in in ANY sort of relationship about expectations/needs/desires. 

Im married and got married before I knew the word aro(no kidding i legit decided to go for it cause "wow he doesnt annoy me as much as other people"(I was a teenager)) and Im now out with him and did some polyam dating for a while before deciding it super wasnt for me. The thing is, there was no honeymoon period or like losing interest romantically or anything like that so in some ways I am a loyal and devoted partner for LIFE. It's all about perspective and the individuals.

But really i think we need to teach people to communicate our expectations.

As a baby aro i was obsessed with "oathtaking" and made friends when they passed a certain threshold of closeness sign a handwritten oath based on medieval chivalry and Even turned down a friend who wanted to sign with me(Ive relaxed a LOT since then but it does speak to my aroness and my openness toward speaking about expectations regardless of romantic Orientation).

On 10/27/2016 at 4:08 PM, Miles said:

Okay, I'm a mental health major and sociology nerd, there's a chapter on gender in my psych textbook, and I'm a dysphoric nonbinary person whose first binder should arrive within about three weeks. When people are uncomfortable with expectations to be feminine or masculine, that's called gender role strain. And if they want to do something like bind, take hormones, get surgery, use different pronouns, if they're uncomfortable with people seeing them as strictly male/female, if they want to use a gender ambiguous nickname...well, they might want to look into whether they're actually cis.

You know, I never knew there was a term for it and I am very thankful for your expertise. I sometimes have cis people tell me they "never think about their gender(But being expected to (insert gender role stereotype here) annoys them too) so what makes them different than me who is nonbinary" and I didnt know there was a term to describe it so thank you. 

I have dysphoric hypomania as well as gender dysphoria so to me it was always a clearly definable feeling for me so pinpointing it didnt take a lot of effort/existential angst.

On 7/3/2019 at 12:44 PM, Spacenik86 said:

 

Sounds like schizoid personality disorder.

I would refrain from this kind of armchair psychology. 

I want a BFF like a medieval warrior and his lord kind of relationship. Someone who always has my back, and we can have beers in pubs and shoot the shit, or go camping together. I think I would have fit into to an older more outdated relationship model. 

I have a theory that aro wasnt as politically necessary in eras before the rise of the middle class, privacy, and noblemen marrying for love rather than political positions.

In older societies many people lived in the same home, or on the same plot of land, and raising children was a community situation; there was lordly devotion and queenly devotion from knights and of course, falling in love with those outside your stations- these types of relationships were coveted, rare, and well, romanticised in fiction precisely because they were not as easily accessible.

My theory is that many of us still fit well into these outdated relationship models but the way we form family and tribal groups now centres on monogamous or romantic pairings and small family units and we now stand out/dont fit into the mould. 

I always think my ideal would be something chivalric- chivalric devotion and protectiveness or being close platonic bros but not "romantic" as we see it today. 

On 6/17/2019 at 3:48 PM, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

 

I... I am aro-allo, and I literally invented voidpunk. Voidpunk is not just for aroaces, nor just for aros in general. Please don't perpetuate the problem of crediting all of aro culture to aroaces.

Also, like, voidpunk shouldnt be something thats gatekept based on label. If Im not mistaken, anyone whose identity has been dehumanised because of some perceived lack can use voidpunk; this includes autistic people, nonbinary people, schiz-spec people, empathy fluctuating people, physical disabilities,  you name it(this includes allo-aros, non-SAM people, and allo-aces I would think). The idea of a punk movement(and punk itself has never been "apolitical") like this isnt some checklist or box you have to fit into, and people are making voldsonas with some current trending aesthetical characteristics, sure, but it's about far more than that. Why would allo-aros be excluded(the only exclusions should be of course Terfs, pedos, bigots, people who wouldnt get it anyway tbh).

Just my thoughts but Joto-Aro-Kujo still has the best articulation of an idea they founded and Im inclined to stick with it.

I think I was like... mid 20s. I didnt know the word existed and I never really was able to imagine myself with a romantic partner and had a (rather amatonormative) rule in my Youth that Id just marry the first person I could stand to live with.

But it wasnt until I became very close to a friend who very much wanted something romantic with me, and I knew I felt something very strong for him that definitely wasnt romance(we are still deeply loyal to each other even though our lives have long parted paths and diverged) and Googled it. I found the word "squish" on AVEN and found aro and that was that. I started being out this year on tumblr, and bought a white ring.

To be honest i dont think you need an "age". You can be any age. If you feel thats you, then use the label. I also dont believe theres anything wrong with young people exploring their identities and maybe Even changing labels later in life. 

Hi, Seren!!

4 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Voidpunk!!

Ive been referring your tumblr to people Asking me what voidpunk is since it's my top hashtag ?

Hey there. Ive known about arocalypse for a while but havent joined. Im an "older aro" (in my 30s) and super resonate with the while voidpunk thing being neurodivergent and nonbinary as well as aro. Im not on any of the grey parts of the spectrum but I am bisexual.

Im hoping to become a music therapist. 

Anyway, I sort of missed the forum format of social media so hello!