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opinions on the term "oriented aroace?"


río
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i've seen this term flung around, & for a bit identified w it. however, now, to me it feels like it's trying to erase a normal part of being aromantic by creating a new, more specific microlabel, basically insinuating that only people who are oriented aroace can experience tertiary attraction, or painting aros/aroaces who do not experience tertiary attraction as a separate group, essentially dividing us.

at the end of the day i really don't care too much, however it's interesting to hear others' takes.

 

edit: obviously if ur oriented aroace that’s cool! if that’s what u vibe w & it makes u happy that’s awesome lol

Edited by río
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i always saw it as aroace but with a preference (when it comes to QPRs), however i'm not aroace so it's not really my conversation.

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Speaking as a not oriented aroace.

 

I don't feel this way about the term. I just think some people have a strong connection for the attraction they felt and want this to be reflected in their label and speak about it, and that's fine. I don't think it separates us.

But I don't really go in other aro space than arocalypse so I don't know, maybe there is something specific that make you feel it does and I am not aware of it.

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I mean a lot of the other attractions are just personal preferences/resonances. Like who you are attracted to as a friend or who or what you feel comfortable with or or who or what looks pretty to you. Often that's based on personal tastes or even upbringing and that.

Putting that to gender is strange imo but then again I think some artists are attracted to drawing certain gender more based on aesthetic not necessarily aligning with their primary orientation and that kind of thing. I mean some of these things in this case aesthetic attraction and that can apply to objects ahaha. 

I mean in certain languages objects have genders.. except by language those genders vary and are culturally specific.

Some people are more comfortable hugging people of a certain gender or being friends with such, but then, for a lot of people that might be a lot of other factors for that as well for most people its usually more often people of the same gender ur comfortable with, it doesn't help there are social patterns ingrained in us that affect how we act.

I guess in the case of being aroace the lack of the those attractions you focus on others and the way you interact in this world and what you preference. And greater ability to see things without the other things most people have obscuring it.

But i'm not aroace so idk that. I think im even more confused now tbh ahh. Maybe someone who is an oriented aroace can explain it lol. 

Edited by mewix
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On 7/21/2021 at 10:28 PM, río said:

i've seen this term flung around, & for a bit identified w it. however, now, to me it feels like it's trying to erase a normal part of being aromantic by creating a new, more specific microlabel, basically insinuating that only people who are oriented aroace can experience tertiary attraction, or painting aros/aroaces who do not experience tertiary attraction as a separate group, essentially dividing us.

at the end of the day i really don't care too much, however it's interesting to hear others' takes.

I think it's interesting that you say it implies a divide. I don't think that's really the case, anyone can claim a label or choose not to. claiming a label marks it as important to you that that detail is provided. 

 

personally I don't get the point of the term. you're aro ace, you don't want an intimate relationship with anyone, so what is there to be oriented for? isn't that what orientation is about?

Edited by Ashe.
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I'm aroace but not oriented, I've never personally felt it was a divisive term? The only issue around it I was aware of was it specifically describing aroaces who experience no romantic or sexual attraction at all, which is how we got 'angled aroace' for aroaces who do. I don't think the term indicates other aroaces don't experience tertiary attraction, just that it's not significant enough or consistent enough to label as being bi or gay or what have you specifically.

1 hour ago, Ashe. said:

personally I don't get the point of the term. you're aro ace, you don't want an intimate relationship with anyone, so what is there to be oriented for? isn't that what orientation is about?

Aroaces can want intimate relationships, and regardless my understanding of the term describes a tertiary attraction (alterous, aesthetic, etc.) that the person feels important enough to label and include in their identity.   (Obviously anyone who is actually oriented aroace can correct me on anything I've gotten wrong, they know their experiences best)

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I'm a pan-oriented aroace and I don't see how would this term divide aroace people. Not every aroace person experiences terriary attractions, but many do. Some people experience all of them, some only one or two, others none. And all of those people are valid. It's just that some people are happy with just one or a few labels, and others want to have a lot of specific labels because it makes them feel better with themselves. And I fall into that last category. You should use labels which make you feel comfortable with your own identity! Or maybe you don't want to use any labels besides "queer"  but you know you're aspec? That's cool too. You do you, and I'll do me, but we won't do eachother, probably. It's just that for some aroace folks terriary attractions are an important part of their identity so they choose to identify with the term "oriented aroace", and other don't care about it at all so they choose not to label themselves in that category. But in both cases, those people are both aroace and valid! More specific labels don't divide our community, they just give more options for people who like using more specific labels. Oriented or not, you're not any less of an aroace! I hope you understand what I mean.

19 hours ago, Ashe. said:

personally I don't get the point of the term. you're aro ace, you don't want an intimate relationship with anyone, so what is there to be oriented for? isn't that what orientation is about?

I'm pan-oriented, which means I experience all of terriary attractions towards other people regardless of their gender. What is there to be oriented for? QPR, for example. I'm a pan-oriented aroace happily in a QPR with a nonbinary person. I don't experience sexual and romantic attraction, but I still have queerplatonic attraction. And I still want a committed, intimate relationship, just not romantic or sexual in nature. I hope I answered your question right.

Edited by Alexander
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"Romantic attraction occurs when someone finds an emotional connection with another person, and this can include appreciating their personality, valuing their opinions, and looking to them for support." link

 

"attraction that makes people desire romantic contact or interaction with another person or persons." link

 

"Romantic attraction is a form of emotional attraction based on a desire for a romantic relationship, or doing romantic activities with a particular person. This can include things like being physically close, affectionate speech, living together, making lifelong commitment decisions, doing things together exclusively, valuing the relationship more than others, and other forms of romantic affection" link

"What Is Romantic Attraction? Understanding The Urge To Seek Out A Mate" "The most stripped-down definition of romantic attraction is that it is an emotional response which most people experience at one time or another. This feeling results in the desire for them to have a romantic relationship with the person who makes them feel that way." link

"Romantic attraction is an emotional response, which most people experience at one point or another, that results in a desire for a romantic relationship with the recipient" 

Romantic attraction can be based upon various traits, qualities, or aspects. Physical qualities, ... [and] Qualities that are not instantly available, such as psychology, genetics, and cultural influence more often lead to a romantic interest as opposed to sexual. This form of interest develops into attraction over time, depending on how each individual relationship evolves and the formation of an emotional connection with the person of interest." "Romantic relationships are typically defined by the involvement of romantic actions while disregarding any sexual actions. Romantic actions include dinners, movies, long walks on the beach, sharing hobbies, and even kissing or cuddling." link

"Romantic attraction is an emotional response that most people often feel that results in a desire for a romantic relationship with the person that the attraction is felt towards. " link

"To me it isn't desire for a relationship, but leads to a desire for a relationship. The attraction is just a pull towards a particular person, wanting to spend time with them, wanting something from them that I do not want from any friend (a closeness, intimacy level, etc that isn't in my friendships). That may lead to a desire for a relationship, if all other variables match up - shared values, etc. " - a friend in another forum

"I have no difference in neediness between friends or The One who I have romantic feelings for, I just know it's not the usual familial/friend feelings" - another friend

 

What is romantic attraction but the emotional experience that revolves around the desire for a relationship? if someone desires a relationship with someone else, and selects a partner based off that desire, they are experiencing romantic attraction.

 

A squish and a crush are not different experiences. the only difference is that aa squish leads to the desire for friendship only, whereas a crush leads to a desire for an intimate relationship.

 

 

@Alexander @Autumn

Edited by Ashe.
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2 minutes ago, Ashe. said:

"Romantic attraction occurs when someone finds an emotional connection with another person, and this can include appreciating their personality, valuing their opinions, and looking to them for support." link

 

"attraction that makes people desire romantic contact or interaction with another person or persons." link

 

"Romantic attraction is a form of emotional attraction based on a desire for a romantic relationship, or doing romantic activities with a particular person. This can include things like being physically close, affectionate speech, living together, making lifelong commitment decisions, doing things together exclusively, valuing the relationship more than others, and other forms of romantic affection" link

"What Is Romantic Attraction? Understanding The Urge To Seek Out A Mate" "The most stripped-down definition of romantic attraction is that it is an emotional response which most people experience at one time or another. This feeling results in the desire for them to have a romantic relationship with the person who makes them feel that way." link

"Romantic attraction is an emotional response, which most people experience at one point or another, that results in a desire for a romantic relationship with the recipient" 

Romantic attraction can be based upon various traits, qualities, or aspects. Physical qualities, ... [and] Qualities that are not instantly available, such as psychology, genetics, and cultural influence more often lead to a romantic interest as opposed to sexual. This form of interest develops into attraction over time, depending on how each individual relationship evolves and the formation of an emotional connection with the person of interest." "Romantic relationships are typically defined by the involvement of romantic actions while disregarding any sexual actions. Romantic actions include dinners, movies, long walks on the beach, sharing hobbies, and even kissing or cuddling." link

"Romantic attraction is an emotional response that most people often feel that results in a desire for a romantic relationship with the person that the attraction is felt towards. " link

 

 

 

What is romantic attraction but the emotional experience that revolves around the desire for a relationship? if someone desires a relationship with someone else, and selects a partner based off that desire, they are experiencing romantic attraction.

 

 

@Alexander @Autumn

I don't experience romantic attraction. That's the whole point of me identyfing as aromantic. Please, stop trying to invalidate my identity just because you don't agree with me. I can see the difference between queerplatonic attraction and romantic attraction. And the one I'm experiencing towards my queerplatonic partner is definitely not romantic, because I'm fully aro, which mean I have never, ever experienced romantic attraction to any gender. The only people who can tell me what I'n feeling and what labels fit me are: me, myself and I. So stop it, please. I know what romantic attraction is, and I definitely never felt it. At least try to learn more about the term "queerplatonic" before responding to me like that, trying to convince me that my feelings are romantic in nature, even though they are clearly NOT. @Ashe.

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21 minutes ago, Ashe. said:

why are you so trigggered? I'm trying to explain romantic attraction, not invalidate anything. if you think romantic attraction is something else, what is it? how does romantic attraction and queerplatonic attraction differ? imo if it looks romantic, it is romantic. @Alexander

I'm "triggered" because you're literally trying to invalidate my experience as an aroace individual and telling me that my label is pointless, on a forum related to aromanticism. You just experience being aromantic differently than me, and that's fine. For me, romantic attraction is when you want to go on dates with a person, you want to be in a romantic relationship with them, you want to give them romantically coded gifts, you want to celebrate valentines day in a romantic way, you want to do the things that couples do. Romantic attraction to someone = a desire to being romantically involved with another person. Not every strong emotional bond is romantic in nature. Just as platonic attraction and romantic attraction are separate, the same goes for romantic attraction and queerplatonic attraction. For me, queerplatonic attraction is a strong, emotional attraction to someone. Desire to spend time with them, because they are an interesting person, but not romantically. I trust them, so I tell them everything I feel. When I feel bad, they cuddle with me to make me feel better (again, sensual attraction doesn't equal romantic attraction). But neither of us has a desire to be involved romantically with the other. We don't want to kiss, go on romantic dates and give eachother flowers or chocolates and tell other people that we are a couple. Queerplatonic relationship isn't the same as romantic relationship. Just because you can't understand it doesn't mean it isn't true. Only people who are in a QPR can define their relationship.

@Ashe.

Edited by Alexander
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7 minutes ago, Ashe. said:

how am I doing this?  you're putting words in my mouth. If someone explaining what romantic attraction is is a personal attack, you need to rethink identity. someone explaining romance should not invalidate you. 

 

Not everyone romantic wants these things. These are what is typically considered to be romantic activities; assuming that is what romance is and nothing else is kind of strange. Romance is all about being with a romantic partner, and sure doing romantic things with them, but what that entails can be as simple as "hang out with friends" and "go on vacation together" and "talk about our day" and "share our lives together" and things along those lines. Most couples stop dating at some point, not every couple gives gifts, and some couples don't celebrate valentines day. In fact, the stereotype is that men forget about the anniversary!

Are you trying to say that romantic attraction is wanting to participate romantically in someone else's life? I can agree with that.  But I don't agree that the things you listed are the end all be all of what that means. It's only the stereotype of what couples do. Couples share their life together, that's what it's all about. Being with someone else. 

Don't think of it as what teens do when dating; think about what adults do when married. 30, 40, 50 60 years of age. Do your parents go on dates? Do they give gifts outside of birthdays, Christmas, and anniversary? They probably don't. Mine don't. I don't think they even give gifts on anniversary, just go on an actual date for once. And I'm pretty sure they don't celebrate valentines day together. But they do do things together; they spend time with other couples as friends; they go do stuff together like plays and going for walks and going on day trips. They do things together as a pair. Is that what you do with your qpr? Do things together? Because that looks romantic. Why isn't it romantic? Do you feel like your partner matters to you in a meaningful and significant way? Why isn't that romantic?

 

This is no different from romance. Just saying. Romance looks like this too. 

 

I like kissing, but don't find it romantic. I don't like going on dates. I don't like giving each other gifts. Yet, I am romantic. I know I'm romantic because I desire a significant other person, I want someone who cares about what I did today, someone who cares when I feel bad. I want a best friend who is also my partner. Bottom line is, I want someone to spend time together with. Someone who is involved in my life more than a typical  friendship would be. 

 

This looks a lot like relationship anarchy, which is breaking down relationships and challenging the typical rules of such relationships. Defining a relationship with the person individually, not defined based off stereotype. 

Maybe you can't separate romantic and queerplatonic attraction, but I can. And it's not romantic, it literally has the word "platonic" in it. And here I end this conversation. We just can't understand eachother so it doesn't make any sense to continue. Just don't say that my feelings are romantic because they aren't. Just because it looks romantic to you doesn't mean that it's actually romantic. Things look different from different perspective Have a good day and just learn to respect and not question oriented aroaces and people in queerplatonic relationships.

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@Ashe.the problem with "if it looks romantic then it is romantic" is that 1) what's look romantic osn't the same for everyone and 2) it doesn't say anything about the feeling involved.

For instance you say

3 hours ago, Ashe. said:

ut they do do things together; they spend time with other couples as friends; they go do stuff together like plays and going for walks and going on day trips. They do things together as a pair. Is that what you do with your qpr? Do things together? Because that looks romantic. Why isn't it romantic?

Doing things together is not at all romantic for me. You can do things together with a lot of people. A friend, a best friend, your family... And there are people we'll see mire than others because we get along more woth them, but it doesn't mean it is romantic.

In fact, a lot of things couples do, we can do it with friends too.

 

It is not the actions that makes the relationship romantic but the feelings involved. Which is the problem with the definition you gave. It kept talking about an "emotional response" but never defines the nature of the emotion, as if there were only one type of strong emotion. Of course describing an emotion is very difficult. But that's still a very important point because when we forget it, it leads to a lot of confusion. For instance, it is said that twins have a strong connection, a "meaningful and significant way" to interact to take your words. Are twins romantically attracted to each other? No.

 

To make it more clear I'll use an analogy.

Let's take the action of crying. Usually, it is associating with an emotion : sadness. So people will see someone cryong and assume they are sad.

Except that sometimes, people don't cry because they are sad. They can cry because they are relieved. They can cry because they laugh too much. They can cry because they hurt their body. A lot of reasons.

So even if we usually associated crying with an emotion, it is not necessary this emotion that leads people to cry.

That's the same thing with romantic coded things.

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1 hour ago, nonmerci said:

In fact, a lot of things couples do, we can do it with friends too.

this is very true. with the exception of kissing and cuddling, anything romantic is typically seen done with a friend. Makes the whole thing rather confusing, doesn't it?

 

1 hour ago, nonmerci said:

actions that makes the relationship romantic but the feelings involved

and desire for a romantic relationship is a romantic feeling involved in this stuff. Someone who desires an intimate committed relationship with another person, that's romantic attraction. What else would romance be but desire to bond with someone? As more than just a friend?

 

1 hour ago, nonmerci said:

Let's take the action of crying. Usually, it is associating with an emotion : sadness. So people will see someone cryong and assume they are sad.

Except that sometimes, people don't cry because they are sad. They can cry because they are relieved. They can cry because they laugh too much. They can cry because they hurt their body. A lot of reasons.

So even if we usually associated crying with an emotion, it is not necessary this emotion that leads people to cry.

That's the same thing with romantic coded things.

attraction isn't like crying. It's a pull towards someone that leads to something. With romantic attraction, it's any kind of pull to another person that leads to a desire to be emotionally intimate and committed to be with someone. You desire sharing your life with this person, whatever activity that means. I can see how you're making the statement that romantic coded activity does not necessarily mean romantic feelings are involved; someone could do these things with a friend after all. But if you desire to partner up with someone, that desire is labelled everywhere I look as romantic attraction.

 

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If you think any kind of intimate relationship has to be romantic, all I can say is: Sorry about the internalized amatonormativity bro, get better soon. (Also might wanna work on the ableism with that “triggered” comment, but hey, one thing at a time.)

Edited by Jot-Aro Kujo
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Arocalypse does not tolerate racist, queerphobic, or sexist bigotry, as these create an environment that is hostile to the reasonable exchange of views. You may not post hateful, abusive or disparaging content about people's race, national or ethnic origin, colour, religion, gender identity, sexual orientation, romantic orientation, age, or mental or physical disability. This includes, but is not limited to, anything bigoted against 'asexuals', 'allosexuals', 'aromantics', ‘alloromantics’, ‘ace-spec’ or ‘aro-spec’ as identifiable categories.

Play nice and ask good faith questions. Bigotry will not be tolerated, nor will explaining other people's experiences to them.

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tbh i thought angled aroaces more applied to people who were a-spec. it wasn’t meant for aroace more a-spec who felt a non romantic/sexual orientation was strongly part of their identity as well. i don’t rlly see the controversy in that? maybe it’s the naming but eh

also i don’t necessarily refer to myself as an oriented aroace simply because it’s kind of a mouthful. also bc i see ace as more of a technicality that i don’t experience sexual attraction, but not necessarily a label i’m particularly excited to claim ig? but i do experience alterous attraction. once. which ig that one occasion was enough of an impact on me where i’ve considered referring to myself as pan alterous or smthing other.

in the end tho, i think it’s just a way for people to emphasize their experiences outside what is typically talked abt. it doesn’t have to be divisive if you don’t see other attraction aside from sexual/romantic attraction being divisive 

Edited by cyancat
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