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Gay/bi aros, does anyone else get annoyed over people who identify as "just ace" or "just aro"?


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I'm a bi gray aro and like on the one hand I recognize questioning people exist and also using just ace or aro by themselves makes sense for some nonbinary people and I can't force anyone to identify as anything, but it annoys me so much sometimes when aros who aren't attracted to their same gender identify as "just aro."

First of all that tells me absolutely nothing about who you're attracted to since you can be a gay ace or a het aro. When I and most other people ask what your sexuality is they want to know who you're attracted to, not how you experience attraction.

Second, to me it's - and I say this as a nonbinary person - the equivalent of saying "I'm not cis, I'm normal" or "I can't have cis privilege because I'm a woman/gay/don't like gender roles." Or when straight women will call another woman their girlfriend when they'd never call their male friends their boyfriends. Or like, if I tried to say that I'm not white because I'm half Irish and my ethnic group has faced colonization and oppression (even though that doesn't negatively affect my life personally today) or if I tried to say that because I'm pagan I'm somehow just as oppressed as someone Jewish or Muslim.

I think if you're cis and not attracted to your same gender you hold privilege for it even if you're aro or ace. And while it's fine to prioritize being aro or ace as an important part of your identity it's also important to acknowledge when you're in a position of power - in this case due to lack of same gender attraction - and not treat your own life experience as the default, which is what I feel like aros and aces who aren't into their same/similar gender(s) might be (consciously or unconsciously) doing when they try to just call themselves aro or ace and just leave it up to interpretation who they're attracted to. It promotes the idea that aros just inherently feel no attraction at all or that we're all straight, which marginalizes aros who are gay/bi/lesbian/etc and ignores how we're more at risk because of homophobia. As a bi gray aro I need support from other aros and that includes prioritizing the marginalized in our community.

 

EDIT: I'm not talking about people who are strictly aroace and openly call themselves aroace here, but instead more like someone who's a cis het aro and says just "aromantic" when asked their sexuality.

Edited by Finn
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Hello i use only "aro", am not because i am privilegiate at all (sometime i id as aro allo, it's complex but i have the right) and i think that you should let peoples identify as they wish, you assume too much about them. 

 

Peoples can be "only ace" or "only aro" and it's not just bc they are privilegiate. There is many possible reasons. It's not because they are het. In fact, i find it disrespectful of you to slap "het" on someone who don't label their own orientation.

I don't label my sexual orientation bc it's blury and i CHOOSE to not. And it's fine. It's not bc i am questionning.

 

As a non binary "only aro", let me tell you that you are wrong on all the line there. 

Sorry if i get annoyed too, but wow. Hope you understand why it's not great If you get annoyed at peoples for an harmless self label, then it's on you. It's about us, how we decide for our own label. Not about you. 

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1 hour ago, Leton. said:

Hello i use only "aro", am not because i am privilegiate at all (sometime i id as aro allo, it's complex but i have the right) and i think that you should let peoples identify as they wish, you assume too much about them.

As I said I can't force anyone to identify as anything.

1 hour ago, Leton. said:

Peoples can be "only ace" or "only aro" and it's not just bc they are privilegiate. There is many possible reasons. It's not because they are het. In fact, i find it disrespectful of you to slap "het" on someone who don't label their own orientation.

There are non-aro, non-ace straight cis people who also don't label themselves as cishet either. Is it also disrespectful of me to label someone cishet if they literally say "I don't label myself, but I'm a man/woman who lives as and is totally comfortable being treated as my assigned sex, and doesn't identify with any nonbinary or culturally specific gender, and is only attracted to genders completely dissimilar from my own"? Like by definition that is both a cis and a het. It's not "disrespectful" to acknowledge that.

1 hour ago, Leton. said:

I don't label my sexual orientation bc it's blury and i CHOOSE to not. And it's fine. It's not bc i am questionning.

I mean good for you? This isn't about you though, considering that I said I can understand why nonbinary people would do it and that I'm referring mostly to cis people who aren't at all attracted to their same gender sexually or romantically.

1 hour ago, Leton. said:

As a non binary "only aro", let me tell you that you are wrong on all the line there. 

I have literally no idea what this is even supposed to say.

1 hour ago, Leton. said:

Sorry if i get annoyed too, but wow. Hope you understand why it's not great If you get annoyed at peoples for an harmless self label, then it's on you. It's about us, how we decide for our own label. Not about you. 

It's not harmless though.

I can't opt out of oppression for being bi, and honestly my experiences as an aro kind of...pale in comparison to my experiences being bi. I've never worried about being physically attacked, raped, fired, kicked out, evicted, or forced into conversion therapy for being aro. I've never worried about introducing my family to a sexual partner because I'm aro. I've never been told I'm a sexual predator or that I'm possessed by a demon for being aro. I've never been followed home or treated as a straight man's personal fetish or told it's my own fault if I'm abused for being aro.

But I have experienced all of that for being bi. So for someone who is, by definition, both cis and not attracted to their same gender to pretend that we're the same just because we're both on the aromantic spectrum, to ignore their privilege by just not labeling themselves when I will never have the ability to pretend that my bisexuality is insignificant and grayromanticism is inherently more important, to marginalize me in my own community by acting like their identity is the default and doesn't need to be explicitly stated as if that doesn't just contribute more to heterosexism and the treatment of same gender attraction as a deviation from the norm? That's a huge slap in the face to me.

As a community, we're weak when we leave our marginalized members in the dust. That means aros of color, aro women, trans or nonbinary aros, disabled aros, aro religious minorities, and in this case aros who are attracted to our same and similar genders. So yeah, sometimes hetero cis aros need to realize that they're not "just aro" and that they are privileged in a way I will never be, and they need to acknowledge that and not act like their experience is the default or something they can opt out of.

Edited by Finn
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No, it doesn't bother me. Why is it any of my business who they are and aren't attracted to? Fuck am I, a cop? If they don't want to label that experience, then they don't have to. I also find it deeply concerning that you would assume they're straight by default...

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5 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

No, it doesn't bother me. Why is it any of my business who they are and aren't attracted to? Fuck am I, a cop? If they don't want to label that experience, then they don't have to. I also find it deeply concerning that you would assume they're straight by default...

I don't assume that. But if they say, for example, they're not attracted to anyone or they talk about dating/having sex as an ace or aro but only in reference to m/w relationships, literally what am I supposed to think? Especially since most bi aros just...say that they're bi aro because they know otherwise they'll be assumed to be straight? It's not even an assumption, it's just a reasonable deduction based on what an individual has said about their life.

Also the cop thing is just really not fair or appropriate considering I'm not exactly shooting unarmed aroaces and getting paid leave for it.

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Just now, Finn said:

I don't assume that. But if they say, for example, they're not attracted to anyone or they talk about dating/having sex as an ace or aro but only in reference to m/w relationships, literally what am I supposed to think? Especially since most bi aros just...say that they're bi aro because they know otherwise they'll be assumed to be straight? It's not even an assumption, it's just a reasonable deduction based on what an individual has said about their life.

You're supposed to assume that they identify as aro. You DO realize there are bis who have only been in M/W relationships, yeah? You talk about being concerned about marginalized non-hetero identities, and here you are acting like it's up to you to decide who's ~really~ queer or whatever. It's literally none of your business. If they say they're not straight? Then they're not straight. You don't get to decide someone else's identity for them.

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10 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

You're supposed to assume that they identify as aro. You DO realize there are bis who have only been in M/W relationships, yeah? You talk about being concerned about marginalized non-hetero identities, and here you are acting like it's up to you to decide who's ~really~ queer or whatever. It's literally none of your business. If they say they're not straight? Then they're not straight. You don't get to decide someone else's identity for them.

ok but most bis aren't going to exclusively talk about wanting to be in m/w relationships. because they don't exclusively want m/w relationships. and this affects my community so it is my business.

do i get to just say i'm irish and not white, even though I'm literally never going to experience the same oppression as an irish poc and our lived realities are totally different? No. should poc assume i just identify as irish and refrain from pointing out that I'm white and need to take a back seat in discussions of racism, and ignore that my whiteness is already perceived as the default both in and out of the irish diaspora and by not acknowledging my whiteness I'm just perpetuating that and centering my feelings over oppressed people's needs? Again, no.

why is aromanticism one of the only identities where you can just decide you're not privileged and it's totally socially acceptable and encouraged even by progressives? why is the aro community one of the only ones where the most privileged members are prioritized by everyone involved, including those who claim to center marginalized people?

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2 minutes ago, Finn said:

ok but most bis aren't going to exclusively talk about wanting to be in m/w relationships. because they don't exclusively want m/w relationships. and this affects my community so it is my business.

do i get to just say i'm irish and not white, even though I'm literally never going to experience the same oppression as an irish poc and our lived realities are totally different? No. should people assume i just identify as irish and refrain from pointing out that I'm white and need to take a back seat in discussions of racism, and ignore that my whiteness is already perceived as the default both in and out of the irish diaspora and by not claiming my whiteness I'm just perpetuating that and centering my feelings over oppressed people's needs? Again, no.

why is aromanticism one of the only identities where you can just decide you're not privileged and it's totally socially acceptable?

Get A Load Of This Guy | Know Your Meme

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2 minutes ago, Finn said:

so you have no actual response. got it.

It's more like I respect myself more than to waste my time and energy holding your hand while I explain queerphobia and heteronormativity 101 to you, lmao.

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5 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

It's more like I respect myself more than to waste my time and energy holding your hand while I explain queerphobia and heteronormativity 101 to you, lmao.

Do you have literally any experience with social science besides seeing tumblr blogs that insist you're a mean bully uwu if you don't constantly validate privileged people? because you clearly don't respect yourself enough to not do that.

That said, I don't need you to explain """"""queerphobia""" to me because unlike cis people who aren't into their same gender, I actually experience it and it doesn't just end at people being kind of rude on the internet. Go "waste your time and energy" on them. 

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Just now, Finn said:

Do you have literally any experience with social science besides seeing tumblr blogs that insist you're a mean bully uwu if you don't constantly validate privileged people? because you clearly don't respect yourself enough to not do that.

Yes, in fact, I am a community activist who has spoken at World Pride and an active member of TAAAP. Thank you for asking!

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3 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Yes, in fact, I am a community activist

not a very good one, apparently. As long as we're on the subject, I'm also a community activist - and a member of the national social work honor society, with extensive experience studying psychology and sociology from actual accredited researchers, experts in social science, that mysteriously never talked about the alleged widespread violent oppression against cis aro aces. Wonder why.

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Just now, Finn said:

not a very good one, apparently. As long as we're on the subject, I'm also a community activist - and a member of the national social work honor society, with extensive experience studying psychology and sociology from actual accredited research that mysteriously never talked about the alleged widespread violent oppression against cis aro aces. Wonder why.

Get A Load Of This Guy | Know Your Meme

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3 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Get A Load Of This Guy | Know Your Meme

your literal only purpose in this thread seems to be antagonizing me, validating the privileged, and now ignoring that I actually know what I'm talking about. why are you even here? literally why? you're acting like an ignorant child and I would hope someone who claims to be a community activist is better than that.

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Just now, Finn said:

your literal only purpose in this thread seems to be antagonizing me, validating the privileged, and now ignoring that I actually know what I'm talking about. why are you even here? literally what purpose does it serve?

Reassuring others. When members of their own community keep shitting on them, it's good for people to see others acknowledging what scaldingly cold takes those are. For every dipshit who thinks it's cool to gatekeep, I want people to know that there's still those out there who recognize that gatekeepers don't deserve anything more than a Wayne's World meme.

Hope all the non-SAM aros and aces out there are having a good day! Y'all keep kicking ass!

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why is it more their community than mine? what about the homophobia and transphobia I've experienced when they shat on ME? and how am I gatekeeping?

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6 minutes ago, Finn said:

I'm also a community activist - and a member of the national social work honor society, with extensive experience studying psychology and sociology from actual accredited researchers, experts in social science, that mysteriously never talked about the alleged widespread violent oppression against cis aro aces. Wonder why.

They don’t talk about oppression against cis aro aces because aro and ace are still pretty invisible to a lot of the population I’ve seen more research about aces but not a lot about aros. and there’s still a lack of research about aces compared to other sexualities. Also cis doesn’t mean het those are 2 different things it seems like you might be conflating the two.


And to answer your question I don’t see anything wrong with identifying as just aro or just ace. It’s none of my buisiness anyway to know who someone is attracted or not attracted to unless they want me to know and it’s not really any of your business either. Sometimes attraction is complicated so using just ace or just aro is the only label that really fits. Also bi doesn’t really specify which genders people are into either it means attraction to 2 or more genders and there’s a lot of genders out there.

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12 minutes ago, HotRamen said:

They don’t talk about oppression against cis aro aces because aro and ace are still pretty invisible to a lot of the population I’ve seen more research about aces but not a lot about aros. and there’s still a lack of research about aces compared to other sexualities. Also cis doesn’t mean het those are 2 different things it seems like you might be conflating the two.

or maybe because it doesn't happen? also what oppression are you talking about? is there a widespread social problem of cis aroaces getting fired, kicked out, and forced into conversion therapy for being aroace? are cis hetero aro men being kidnapped and tortured in Chechnya and Saudi Arabia? was there ever a widespread public health crisis disproportionately affecting cis hetero aces while the government laughed because all the people were dying were people they never wanted to survive?

also, I know what cis is. i'm nonbinary lmfao. I'm using both here because trans and nonbinary aces and aros are obviously not going to experience the same privilege as our cis counterparts, regardless of who we're attracted to. like, we're still going to be affected by policies that make it illegal to be lgbt. we're still going to experience violence at the same rates as other trans people. and cis aros who are gay or bi are still going to experience homophobia at the same rates as cis gay or bi people who aren't aro.

but like, if you're a cis aroace in bumfuck alabama and you tell your homophobic boss that you've never been attracted to anyone of any gender and don't really consider dating a priority, they probably won't care too much in comparison to if you said you were gay. i have literally seen fundamentalist christians be completely chill about cis aro aces when they thought gay, bi, and trans people were sexual predators who deserved to be tortured and were possessed by demons. when i said my experiences as an aro have paled in comparison to my experiences as a bisexual, that wasn't just for funsies.

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2 hours ago, Finn said:

First of all that tells me absolutely nothing about who you're attracted to since you can be a gay ace or a het aro.

Maybe it doesnt't tell you about who they are attracted to because they don't want you to know!!! Aro people don't owe you jack shit. Why are you mad? 

There are many reason someone might want to use aro as their only label. Maybe their sexual attraction just isn't as important or relevant to them, maybe they're questioning, maybe they're not comfortable with their sexuality or they just don't want others to know. All of them valid and perfectly fine reasons. I don't understand why you are mad!

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52 minutes ago, Finn said:

why is aromanticism one of the only identities where you can just decide you're not privileged and it's totally socially acceptable and encouraged even by progressives? why is the aro community one of the only ones where the most privileged members are prioritized by everyone involved, including those who claim to center marginalized people?

I think you need to ask yourself why everything coming out of your mouth on this thread is something you could read on an aspec exclusionist's discourse tumblr lmao. 

I could get into how aros didn't 'decide' we're privileged. I could get into the social and legal oppression we face, regardless of other labels we have. I could explain how your experiences of being bi versus being aro are just that, yours. I could try to get you to understand, as someone who only ids as aro myself, how gross it is that you assume me straight by default and how invasive it feels that you assume you're entitled to know the ins and outs of my experience with attraction. Frankly I don't think you're worth the effort. If you reflect on the hurt you're dealing to your own community, it will be because you yourself realise you're in the wrong.

Let me instead tell you that I feel empowered as a queer person by opting out of sexual orientation. It's not a concept that helps me understand myself. Maybe it will one day, but for right now it just doesn't apply. I have no sexual orientation. I am not asexual. I am not anything other than aro. The fact that makes you so uncomfortable is honestly part of the appeal :) I'm 'just aro' as in fuck you. 

Edited by arokaladin
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2 minutes ago, Vhenan said:

Maybe it doesnt't tell you about who they are attracted to because they don't want you to know!!! Aro people don't owe you jack shit. Why are you mad? 

There are many reason someone might want to use aro as their only label. Maybe their sexual attraction just isn't as important or relevant to them, maybe they're questioning, maybe they're not comfortable with their sexuality or they just don't want others to know. All of them valid and perfectly fine reasons. I don't understand why you are mad!

you're talking about aros as if I'm not one. this is what I mean when I say aros who are gay or bisexual are treated as deviants in their own community, while aros who aren't are treated as the default. it's our community too and we're treated like outcasts. and what you're not taking into consideration is that aros who are into our same gender don't generally have the luxury of treating our sexual attraction as irrelevant to our experiences.

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13 minutes ago, arokaladin said:

I think you need to ask yourself why everything coming out of your mouth on this thread is something you could read on an aspec exclusionist's discourse tumblr lmao. 

I could get into how aros didn't 'decide' we're privileged. I could get into the social and legal oppression we face, regardless of other labels we have. I could explain how your experiences of being bi versus being aro are just that, yours. I could try to get you to understand, as someone who only ids as aro myself, how gross it is that you assume me straight by default and how invasive it feels that you assume you're entitled to know he ins and outs of my experience with attraction. Frankly I don't think you're worth the effort. If you reflect on the hurt you're dealing to your own community, it will be because you yourself realise you're in the wrong.

what social and legal oppression do we face that is based on being aro and only on being aro, that doesn't also widely affect non aros? and, again, I specifically said multiple times that I was mostly talking about cis people. would you read the post at least before throwing a tantrum?

also, you said that sexual orientation is something that doesn't help you understand yourself but also said my experiences with sexuality don't apply to anyone else. why do your experiences apply to other people and mine don't? why do you only use that argument when it suits you? do you actually think that there aren't a shitton of other aro bisexuals who feel more common ground with non-aro bis than with aros who aren't into their same gender? I've literally had multiple aro gay and bi people approach me quietly to thank me for calling out the homophobia from the aro community that we are so frequently screamed at for even daring to acknowledge without a million disclaimers validating people who don't experience the same level of discrimination as we do, and tell me that because the aro community is so homophobic and treats them like deviants and outcasts and they no longer feel safe participating in it. and yet I'm the one hurting our community?

why is it that I, a bi trans aro, am expected to "reflect on the hurt" that I'm supposedly dealing to people who are cis and don't experience homophobia, but if anyone ever fucking dares to acknowledge that the aro community is anything less than perfect, they're an arophobic monster? why are gay and bi aros treated like shit so constantly for simply addressing homophobia in a community where we deserve to feel safe? how does ignoring our needs make YOU and everyone else in this thread not an arophobe? If any of the most marginalized aros among us feel unsafe, we're no kind of community, just another tool of oppression, until we fix the issue.

 

Edited by Finn
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  • Magni locked this topic

Making judgements against the validity of people's identities is not permitted.  People identifying as non-sam aro/just aro is perfectly valid, people are allowed to identify in the way that is comfortable for them.  This thread is locked because it was never a productive conversation so it is best to prevent escalation.

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