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I don't know what percentage of people on here have heard of FYA, and frankly I don't know much about them myself (I had followed them on tumblr for about 6 hours before the whole thing that's the main point of this post and I'll hopefully actually get to eventually). FYA is a large asexual positivity blog on tumblr (actually called fuckyeahasexual but that's way too long to write out a gajillion times). Apparently they have a history of arophobia but I wasn't following until very recently so I can only speak for what just happened. Basically what happened is that they posted something that was blatantly targeting aroallos and yeah... not good. I'll copy-paste it here (can't link because they deleted it to try to cover it up):
 

I have some thoughts and they aren’t the best thoughts but it hurts to silently sit with them for so long. All I request is that these thoughts are considered what they are: incomplete half ideas half worries that I think could help our communities but emotion may be blocking the best way to word them.

 

I worry about how allo is used in aro spaces. It was never really meant to be directed towards any a-spec person. Aro Allo is used fairly commonly in aro spaces and this isn’t to scold the useage, I just worry if that’s a term that is empowering, most specifically on an individual scale. Allo was meant to be the stand in for “not an aspec identity” I’ve seen alloromantic allosexual people use it to set themselves up as specifically anti-ace, and allowed it to feed into their own sex negativity. It was never intended to be a replacement for the pride of your own sexuality. Just like how cis was not intended as a gender replacement. Of course, as an aro, if it is empowering or you feel like the etymology of how you are using it is better by all means. I just don’t think I’ve ever seen it discussed that aros don’t have to use even if they aren’t ace, especially when not discussing asexuality. (Think how kind of odd it is for a cis woman to go on about being cis when not addressing trans things.) I’ve seen allo used agaisnt aros and aces for being demi or grey which is why for aces who aren’t aro spec I try to use romantic ace. Because then it feels less like your own words used agaisnt you. I also think the aro community can feel it’s larger connection to other communities by focusing on the things they actively have pride in.

Which brings me to thought two. There’s no popularized term for a-specs who do not use the spilit attraction model. And because there’s no good term a-specs, who by definition both, but only use one word are in an odd often painful limbo. At times people see one label, and assume they aren’t the other. I don’t believe we should assume other people’s labels like that, but I understand why it happens. And I don’t think coining a new term for the person is the right move here, but maybe if there was a word for the phenomenon itself it might allow us to better linguistically build a bridge to better discuss it. Maybe “linked a-spec”?

Which brings me to my last thought. History wise “aromantic” as a term dates back to 2002. And first appeared on an Asexual forum. This is not to say the aromantic community started in 2002. For a long time it was linked to asexual or linked to that persons sexuality label if not asexual. I think as a community aros don’t feel like they have much because they can’t carbon date themselves by word as far back as sexuality focused labels. And I think the desired utter separation from “ace history” often robs aros of their own history. I think it makes people feel like asexual is always the focus. Aros don’t owe the ace community anything, aros we’re always a part of its community. You can’t steal from yourself, in reality it’s like taking 5 dollars from your left pocket and putting it in your right pocket. It’s always been your five dollars.

And I know there’s tons of grey aros aces who have wildly varied mileage to which community is more accepting to them. Which I feel is a truly heartbreaking problem because it causes, even a-specs who use both labels, to often still feel pulled part instead of the inherent oneness their identity more feels like.

If I had to make a visual metaphor I’d describe the two communities as a binary star system. Two things that can be viewed on their own, but their gravity effects each other. And for one astronomer living and viewing that bright beautiful thing it may look like a single star. And for others there may be more light between them.

 

 

 

 

So yeah, that really did not help anything at all, it really hurt my mental health and sense of self-worth (something I'd only just gotten to a decent place with). Thoughts?

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: | wow. very cool (/s). honestly im not wholly sure if i wholly parse what FYA was saying (it may just be me being Tired AF rn but like. it's Super poorly worded and confusing)? but if they're saying what think they are (that its weird for alloaros to describe themselves as 'allo' rather than a specific sexual orientation? or smthn like that) then like. what a fucking weird thing for them to get pissy abt. gross of them to police how a group of people they aren't a part of (i mean, i assume they're ace) label themselves.

(also please do correct me if i misunderstood what FYA was saying bc. again. tired af rn lol)

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??? was I the only one who really struggled to read that 😖 ??? I'm fairly confident only my reading comprehension skills, so idk if it was their writing or my inability to read atm. I think they're trying to advocate for individuals who don't strictly identify as aroallo or alloace? But the way they go about it seems to specifically target the aro community, particularly aroallos.

Anyway. "I worry how Allo is used in aro spaces." I wonder how they differentiate individual aroallo pride from an aroallo individual being anti-ace. As an aroallo, I 100% believe you can have pride without being anti-ace. I've never seen an aroallo parade around shouting "At least I have sexual attraction!!!!" (which if they did, I agree. that'd be pretty anti-ace.) They go on to discuss the notion that maybe aroallos shouldn't even use the term allos at all. They compare it to the term cis. Like how a cis woman doesn't go around specifying that she's cis because that is the norm. In this metaphor, I propose a counter example. Pronouns (aka also a former of identity.) Regardless if you are cis or trans, you are encouraged to label your pronouns with every introduction/email/speech/etc. We promote the posting of pronouns because it creates a more inclusive space. In my mind, the term aroallo (like the clarification of pronouns) acknowledges the existence of a-spec and aroace individuals. If we were to use solely the term aro, then that would signify that being aroallo is the default (thereby contributing to aroace and a-spec erasure.) But it's not. If I've misspoken please let me know, but I saw that and my brain questioned it immediately. I don't really comprehend what they mean with the words "because then it feels like your own words are used against you." I would love it if someone elaborated or explain, because I am quite puzzled. 

Also, I feel slightly offended by the following -->  "I also think the the aro community can feel it's larger connection .... pride in." 1) I'm not really sure I follow what "things" they're actively referring to. Are we talking about how we should connect over being aro, and rely on the identifying term "aro" rather than aroallo/aroace/greyary/arodemi/a-spec/etc??? Or rather sticking with "aro" unless you're aroace/greyaro/arodemi/a-spec/etc??? Because if so, I think that you can experience connection in a community while encouraging diversity of thought and identity. I think we can concentrate and celebrate our aro-ness, without annihilating an identity? 2) If they're not aro, then maybe they shouldn't try to tell aros how to feel and act as a community. ??? like, c'mon. that's basic knowledge ??? #oppressedminority101

??? once again confused by their statement. I think the a-spec community is more than capable of developing a vocabulary that fits their needs. They ought to be addressed however they want to be addressed, not however you think/want to address them.

I think in the next paragraph, they go on to address that aro/ace history is intertwined. Which yes, intersectionality exists. It always has and always will. But the issue I find here is the analogy of stealing from oneself? Who is stealing? Who is stealing from who? We are two communities who proudly intersect at multiple points. But?? We're not the same community??? 

I don't have much to say about the star metaphor b/c I'm not sure what the astrologer / light is symbolising. But I'd rather consider our community as independent, rather than two communities dependent on each other's gravitational pull to be spatially positioned. Like, if we were to place aro-identity and ace-identity as two cups of water, where empty of water is aro and ace respectively. How little or how much water one cup has is independent from the other. Will both those cups of water be on the half-empty side for some people? Yeah. But that's not because our identities are dependent on each other. It's just how it is. And the existence and identification of those who have one cup half full and another cup half empty (aroallos or alloaces) doesn't put anyone to shame??? 

lol this went super long. but I hope this made sense. if anyone wants to discuss further, my PMs are open 🥺 I don't mean any malice, I just genuinely disagree with this post.

 

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Oh, you think the original post is bad? It's only the tip of the iceberg. Allow me to recount the drama for those of you who were fortunate enough not to witness it in real time.

Part 1: The Fuckening

  • FYA posts the above horrible take; Initially, as it's an untagged post on a multi-mod blog, readers are uncertain as to whether this post represents the thoughts of one or multiple mods, or if it's even made by an aro at all. Later it is discovered to have been Mod Rose, also known by their personal blog url, frompawntoqueen.
  • Many aros respond with rightful criticism of the problems with said post, including: It singles out allosexual aros as using Bad Terminology™ without giving the same treatment to alloromantic aces;  It essentially says that allo aros shouldn't get to use the term allo because some aphobes have used it in a bad way, which is unfair; It presents allo and especially allosexual as a bad word, undermining all the efforts the ace community has made to convince people that no, it isn't a bad word, considering it was literally coined to replace the more uncomfortable "sexual" as an antonym to asexual; It inexplicably equates allo with cis in a context that makes no sense, because it's not possible to be both cis and trans, but it is possible to be both allo and aspec via the SAM; And finally, it essentially equates non-SAM aspecs with aroaces, or otherwise implies that there should be a way to tell what "type" of non-SAM aspec someone is, completely missing the point of not using the SAM.
  • FYA/Mod Rose later deletes the post, saying that it shouldn't stay up because it "wasn’t adding to the discussion in a positive way" and that by deleting it, only reblogs with criticism will remain available for people to see. At no point do they actually apologize or acknowledge the reasons why people were upset, only saying that it was "not their intention to speak over any allo aro voices".
  • Meanwhile, aros who criticized the post begin noticing that responses they have made are somehow disappearing from the notes of said post, as well as other related posts FYA has made...

Part 2: Upsetti Spaghetti

  • Tumblr user deepinthedirt sends FYA an ask saying that if they really want only critical versions of the post to be seen, they should actually reblog some of them. Mod Rose refuses, and even goes so far as to say "I’ve made no attempts to block people from reblogging and following where the conversation is going themselves", despite the aforementioned disappearing notes. They also claim that they will try to boost allo aro voices "in the future", with no details as to whether that means that same day, or hypothetically at some point before they die.
  • deepinthedirt points out just how vague and unhelpful this claim is, and that Mod Rose did not actually apologize for the hurt they caused. Deepinthedirt also makes a post on their own blog calling for people to stop supporting FYA, a sentiment that is shared by many aros in light of both this incident and many past incidents. Mod Rose says that they don't want to sort through "aggressive" messages (i.e. tone policing people who are rightfully upset) and also says "You are not allowing me to safely listen, process, and understand how to better serve my community." Presumably if Mod Rose needs time to process things they are perfectly capable of disabling the ask box temporarily, or logging off Tumblr.
  • An anon responds that Mod Rose is not listening, and points out the issue of the disappearing notes. Mod Rose insists they are not blocking anyone or deleting notes, and goes on to say "You monitoring the notes of our posts to see how many people are saying negative things and accusing me of getting in the way of that when you cannot find them as easily as you want is triggering to me". Again, Mod Rose is presumably perfectly capable of logging of Tumblr; While triggers should always be respected, in general if someone finds that they're in a triggering situation online, they do have a responsibility to remove themselves from that space and do what they need to do to calm down. Mod Rose apparently did not want to do this, and instead, as in the previous post, put the blame on those who had been hurt for not sitting quietly and giving the person who hurt them time to calm down.

Part 3: Damage Control

  • 10 hours after the most recent post on the subject, Mod Rose posts an apology. However, instead of making a new post, they append it onto the response to the previous anon ask, meaning that only people who are specifically looking several posts back on the FYA blog will actually see it. The apology also, once again, does not actually acknowledge the majority of problems with the post, only the fact that it phrased things in a way that put the majority of the focus on allo aros. So essentially, a hidden apology that more or less boils down to "Sorry you were upset that I phrased things badly but I still stand by the things that I said". 
  • The next day, an anon politely asks if any acknowledgement is going to be made of the responses to the now-deleted original post, or the vanishing notes. A different mod, Mod Dew, responds that no one at FYA was blocking or deleting anything, and that fae were very concerned with the possibility that this may have been happening. (It should be noted, however, that it's entirely possible that someone could have lied faer about doing this.) Fae also asserts that FYA will be boosting voices, and "on a personal level", fae plan on reaching out directly to some of the people who were hurt. While this is certainly an admirable thing to do, it's... A bit telling that Mod Rose, the person responsible for the fiasco, is not doing this, while Mod Dew, who presumably was not involved, is taking the initiative to right Mod Rose's wrongs.
  • An anon points out that Mod Rose has been responsible for a lot of issues, including the racism controversy with Yasmin Benoit (the details of which can be found here). They question how this can be seen as acceptable, and why Mod Rose is still a mod. Mod Fae responds that Mod Rose created FYA, and is the only person running the Twitter. They... Don't actually answer the anon's question, and rather give what appears to be some sort of explanation or justification for the Yasmin Benoit situation. They also claim that "Rose - and none of the mods here - would never even imply that black aspec people are worth less, or deserve less." This completely ignores the fact that just because someone doesn't intend to be racist, or doesn't actively sit down and think "Yeah, I think black people are inferior", does not mean they're incapable of engaging in racist actions. The proper response to being told you did something racist is "I didn't know that was racist, I'm sorry and I'll avoid doing that in the future", not "Uhhhhh well I didn't intend to be racist so actually it's not racist!".
  • Two days after the original post was made, an anon asks just when FYA is going to start following up on their promises of boosting allo aro voices, and points out that the longer they wait, the less people are going to trust them. Mod Dew responds that fae's personally compiling posts to reblog on the subject, and that rather than posting them immediately, they will be queued to be posted slowly over long periods of time between FYA's usual posts. Whether or not this is the right way to go about things is a matter of opinion, but it is rather telling that once again, it's Mod Dew who's taking the initiative, rather than Mod Rose, who was responsible for the actual problem.

TL;DR: Mod Rose of FYA makes a post that's ridiculously shitty to allo aros and non-SAM aros, then when it starts getting criticism, deletes the post and tries to claim they're doing it for a good reason. Mod Rose also seemingly deletes critical responses to the post, though this is later denied. When more criticism pours in and allo aros become fed up with the years of bullshit we've put up with from FYA, Mod Rose completely dodges any responsibility and insists we're not "giving them time to process things" or something (when, if they need space and time to think, they should step away from the situation themself). Later, a completely different mod starts taking initiative to make up for Mod Rose's mistake, while Mod Rose themself does not seem to actually do anything to take responsibility for their own actions.

In conclusion,

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Posted (edited)

This is... something.

Does this person really try to tell allo aro what they should use or not? Compare being aro allo to being cis as if being allosexual means aro are not oppressed by society? Say that allo is a bad term because some idiots use it in a bad way (and only targetting aro allo, not allo aro who uses alloromantic too). Also, this person wants to say what direction the aro community should take, though not part of the community...

 

Yes, the aro community share common history with the ace community.  But does this means we are condemned to be a minor part of a-spec forever? I feel like the aces who use this historical argument when aro ask for more visibility and recognition just refuse to see why aro need their own community or acknowledge why people want more "independance ".  Maybe they are scared to recognize that the aces had hurt aros too, and in particular allosexual, I don't know. But they should let the aro community define what is good for them and recognize their wrong when they say things like this, because this arophobia is disgusting and only create mire gap between the two communities. 

 

Edited by nonmerci
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