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Blue Phoenix Ace

Arocalypse is Shutting Down

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1 hour ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

But I would prefer not to have AVEN involved if there is literally any other possible solution, for a number of reasons.

 

If any of those reasons are a deal breaker, it would be better if I knew sooner rather than later. So, please just PM me.

 

1 hour ago, VoidArcana said:

I'm gonna say it outright, I'm not comfortable with AVEN running this site. I've been fighting for ages to try and stop people assuming my aromanticism means I'm asexual, and I don't think associating a major aromantic space with a well known asexual organisation is gonna help that.

 

What if the link between the two is not obvious? If these forums still appeared under its own URL "www.arocalypse.com", then where would the confusion be?

 

1 hour ago, aepaex said:

Agreed with the above. I think a merge with AVEN should only happen if there are no alternatives. I think it's nice that Arocalypse would keep it's own "space"/rules/etc. but I'd really rather it not be a sister site to AVEN, since aromanticism is still treated like a sub-category of asexuality by a lot of people.

 

Arocalypse would continue to be maintained as a separate set of forums, with its own unique membership. That is, registering for AVEN doesn't get you an Arocalypse account, or vice versa. So, rather than being seen as a sub-category, it would remain its own entity in most respects.

 

57 minutes ago, Coyote said:

If AVEN can provide some logistical support to Arocalypse, that would be a great thing.  But what I would be concerned about is if any of this "stable leadership" is provided by people who are directly elected by the AVEN community.  Just say no.

 

What if the administrator on the new infrastructure was one of our own, just that the backend of the web hosting was handled by AVEN? And the moderators are elected by the Arocalypse community.

 

58 minutes ago, Coyote said:

The second thing I would be concerned about, is that even if the AVEN leadership is competent, I don't trust the larger AVEN community to react appropriately.  You don't want to be exposed to the vagaries of AVEN internal community politics.  You might think ace tumblr has a lot of bullshit going on but imagine dealing with another strain of bullshit you never knew existed.  If it were me, I would only accept an Arocalypse/AVEN affiliation on the condition that AVEN does not advertise the affiliation to its community.

 

I don't understand. What kind of new bullshit would Arocalypse be exposed to that is is not already?

 

15 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:
12 hours ago, Blue Phoenix Ace said:

...The key here is that the community here on Arocalypse would remain in control of its own rules and culture, as long the core values between the two forums remain similar...

 

What does this mean, exactly? Because if "being inclusive of aros even if they do not primarily identify as ace" is considered a core value of Arocalypse, well, in many people's experience it sure ain't a core value of AVEN. 

 

I understand that's vague. We didn't discuss every last detail of that statement, but Arocalypse would still maintain its own Terms of Service. As for core values, it's for example being respectful of others, don't harass people, etc. That's already baked into our Terms of Service. What AVEN is saying is we can't edit the Terms of Service to say "you can threaten to beat people up and that's OK" (as an extreme example). We're already agreeing with the core values of AVEN, just with a slightly different flavor in that our focus is romantic orientation while theirs is sexual orientation.

 

My key takeways here are:

  • The link between AVEN and Arocalypse should not be obvious, Arocalypse should still use a unique domain name
  • Any new leadership for Arocalypse needs to be chosen by the community of Arocalypse

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16 minutes ago, Blue Phoenix Ace said:

 

If any of those reasons are a deal breaker, it would be better if I knew sooner rather than later. So, please just PM me.

 

 

I wouldn't necessarily consider any of them definitively "dealbreakers", so I'll just list my reasons here.

  1. AVEN has historically treated aros pretty badly. In fact, there are a good number of Arocalypse members who have joined specifically because they were looking for a more aro-friendly alternative to AVEN. (I can't name any in particular off the top of my head, but I've definitely seen plenty of intro posts along the lines of "Hey, I'm new, I used to be active on AVEN but..." etc.) For this reason, especially as an allo aro, I really don't feel comfortable associating with AVEN.
  2. As other people have pointed out- It still really does not do much for the notion that aromanticism is just a subset of asexuality. Yes, even if it's not openly advertised as part of AVEN. Arocalypse is one of the few examples of an aro space that isn't tied to an ace space in some way. As an allo aro, I really don't want to lose that.
  3. Look, the fact of the matter is, a lot of aros can't stand AVEN. Now, you say the community itself would still be run by Arocalypse, with AVEN only back end stuff- But here's the thing. Most people don't like to be shit-talked, yeah? So let's say a bunch of us are commiserating about how much we've been treated like shit by AVEN. Along comes AVEN User #307, curious about what aros are up to- And what do they see, but a whole conversation about how much AVEN sucks! So the higher-ups at AVEN get wind of it, and they decide, well, why spend time and money on some ungrateful moochers? And so they pull the plug on us.
    I'm not saying this is necessarily guaranteed to happen, but I am saying that I would feel a lot less comfortable speaking openly about aspec intracommunity discourse if one of the parts of the community that treats us poorly is in fact keeping the site operational. It's a question of security vs. freedom.
  4. This isn't really specifically a logistical thing, more a personal thing, but honestly? It'd just leave a bad taste in my mouth to be that closely tied to AVEN, even if it wouldn't change a lot. It would really feel like a slap in the face, and I'm sure other allo aros would agree.

So TL;DR yes, I would accept AVEN as our new owners if it was the only way to keep the site, in the same sense that I would eat cardboard if I had no food.

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Yeah, for the record, I'm also a bit handwavy on being associated with AVEN. To be honest, I don't know exactly what they've done to the aro community because Arocalypse was my first foray into this community, but I do feel very strongly that my identity is not at all tied to asexuality (because I'm allo). I get that's not for everyone, and that the overlap is a big part of the aro world, but if this site had been in any way affiliated with AVEN when I heard about it and I knew that, I would feel like I didn't have a place here, because I'm not ace. If it were truly a silent investor type deal where they paid the bills and never glanced over here or advertised that they were paying the bills, I'd be fine, but I really wouldn't feel comfortable any other way.

 

23 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Look, the fact of the matter is, a lot of aros can't stand AVEN. Now, you say the community itself would still be run by Arocalypse, with AVEN only back end stuff- But here's the thing. Most people don't like to be shit-talked, yeah? So let's say a bunch of us are commiserating about how much we've been treated like shit by AVEN. Along comes AVEN User #307, curious about what aros are up to- And what do they see, but a whole conversation about how much AVEN sucks! So the higher-ups at AVEN get wind of it, and they decide, well, why spend time and money on some ungrateful moochers? And so they pull the plug on us.
I'm not saying this is necessarily guaranteed to happen, but I am saying that I would feel a lot less comfortable speaking openly about aspec intracommunity discourse if one of the parts of the community that treats us poorly is in fact keeping the site operational. It's a question of security vs. freedom.

Even if AVEN were totally silent, it wouldn't necessarily solve this really good point. I like Arocalypse because it gives me a safe place to explore the community I'm part of and learn about the issues that affect my community without being constantly conflated with or compared to other LGBTQ+ people's struggles. It's a lot less likely to turn into the oppression Olympics or the kinds of really harmful gatekeeping that occur in other queer communities I'm part of if we're all on the same team, so to speak. Again, I don't have any specifics, but for instance, if there were a board for enbies that was owned by exclusively binary trans folks under an organization for exclusively binary trans folks, I'd think twice before joining.

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Man, you guys gonna make me sign in, so I can post and talk about this? Okay. Fine. I did the thing. Let's talk. Before I post, though, I want to say that I'm not talking on behalf of AVEN staff. I just feel the need to say SOMETHING because I'm the one that brought the issue of Arocalypse shutting down to AVEN staff, so I'm just trying to justify my actions.

 

I don't want to "take over" Arocalypse. I literally just want you guys to be kept alive. AVEN's been AMAZING for me, a panromantic asexual. I just want allo aros to have the same thing that I've got. 

 

Also, to anyone concerned about how aromantics are treated on AVEN, we really don't allow allo aros to be harassed or invalidated. I do want you to know we crack down on that.

 

Seriously, there's no sinister plan. It's really just keep Arocalypse running. That's literally it.

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1 minute ago, Faeriefate said:

Man, you guys gonna make me sign in, so I can post and talk about this? Okay. Fine. I did the thing. Let's talk. Before I post, though, I want to say that I'm not talking on behalf of AVEN staff. I just feel the need to say SOMETHING because I'm the one that brought the issue of Arocalypse shutting down to AVEN staff, so I'm just trying to justify my actions.

 

I don't want to "take over" Arocalypse. I literally just want you guys to be kept alive. AVEN's been AMAZING for me, a panromantic asexual. I just want allo aros to have the same thing that I've got. 

 

Also, to anyone concerned about how aromantics are treated on AVEN, we really don't allow allo aros to be harassed or invalidated. I do want you to know we crack down on that.

 

Seriously, there's no sinister plan. It's really just keep Arocalypse running. That's literally it.

 

I'm glad AVEN has been good to you. It hasn't always been to aros, and we're allowed to be wary of AVEN because of that. Our wariness of AVEN isn't a comment on you either, but you have to realise not everyone has the same experience with AVEN or the ace community as large as you do. I personally, as a aromantic who is not asexual, am uncomfortable with being associated with an asexual organisation, publicized or not, because of the experiences I have had with the ace community. This apparently is not an uncommon experience. 

 

Obviously I don't want Arocalypse shut down, but as people have said, this is a LAST DITCH option to us, because literally anything else would be better. 

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8 minutes ago, VoidArcana said:

Obviously I don't want Arocalypse shut down, but as people have said, this is a LAST DITCH option to us, because literally anything else would be better. 

 

Given the number of aro individuals and at least one aro organisation also interested in keeping Arocalypse alive, it really shouldn't be necessary. I'm not sure why AVEN is seemingly our number one option.

 

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@VoidArcana (Off-topic, sorry) WE HAVE THE SAME PRONOUNS OMFG HELLO

 

(Back on topic) Same. I'm really grateful that we have this option, but I also hope we don't need it. I've had mostly positive experiences with the ace community, but I'm also hyper-aware that it isn't my community and that people who are in my community have had less positive experiences. I appreciate the gesture and understand it's made in good faith -- I never thought there was any grand conspiracy -- I just want a space that I feel welcome in, and I don't think AVEN is at the top of the list to provide that.

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1 hour ago, Raphael said:

I just want a space that I feel welcome in, and I don't think AVEN is at the top of the list to provide that.

 

To this point, this isn't even about AVEN in particular for me. True, there's many people in the community who have personal experiences and that makes this a little more visceral for them. But I would be against any of the other big non-aro organisations getting involved as a first option. It's nice that those options exist, but if we can keep Arocalypse run by people inside the community then that will be my vote every time.

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Hey! I'm the person who made the suggestion (as a PT/board member of AVEN). I felt it was important to have the blessing of the community before making an official bid (we'd also need to check tech things on our side, and have the agreement of the board as a whole), hence Blue Phoenix's post. The reservations people are expressing is precisely why I wanted to have this discussion. Unless these are resolved to most people's satisfaction, we won't go ahead.

 

To introduce myself, my name is Michael. I've identified as asexual since I was 15. I first identified as aromantic live on UK national radio much later on (severely surprising myself - I'd always identified as heteroromantic before that): I was in my late 20s. Now a decade later, I will be the first to admit that my vis-ed/activism work is still far more asexuality focussed than aromanticism. I've never really felt like discussing my aromanticism for some reason, which is part of the reason I didn't join the site before. However I was always glad to know it was there, and the thought of it being lost was a very unpleasant one, especially as there don't seem to be many other major aro forums out there.

 

To address a few things, as far as I'm concerned aromanticism and asexuality are two different but highly related things. Sexual and romantic orientation are separate but there is no denying that the history of the two movements is highly interconnected, and most likely this will continue no matter what happens with Arocalypse. People still often learn about aromanticism through the asexual community. Many ace conferences are now explicitly ace & aros focussed (the UK asexuality conference being an important current exception, though this is under review). I see the relationship between the ace and aro community as much like that between the ace and broader LGBTQ+ community in many ways. I think we amplify each other's voices, though there is always a danger of a lesser known identity (such as aromanticism) being drowned out - something we need to work to prevent.

 

Second, the point about core values. This is something we have struggled with a lot on AVENen. The key core value that causes a LOT of controversy is our stand on allowing people to self-define their sexual, romantic orientation and gender identity, and asking people to respect that in others. You may have seen the statement we made a few years ago on this topic and the heat it generated:

https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/152709-a-message-about-avens-values/

 

Or more recently:

https://www.asexuality.org/en/topic/190885-avens-policy-on-invalidation/

 

The stand also extends to anti-elitism and the inclusion of grey-asexuals and grey-aros as part of the asexual/aromantic spectrum. This is really important to us - the board of directors. We have been trying to effect a culture change on AVENen in this direction, but it's a long and gradual process. Similarly we'd expect the same here, if we took the site on.

 

We can be really flexible about a lot of things - the ToS and its enforcement would largely be upto the site admins/mods here, who may not even be AVENen members. The admin/mods would still be Arocalypse community members: AVEN would only step in and help recruitment if that was needed. However the invalidation thing is one area we would always take a strong line.

 

To summarise, if the reservation is that the invalidation/gatekeeping subculture on AVENen might come over to Arocalypse, we'd do everything in our power to prevent that. If the reservation is the opposite - namely that a takeover would mean the mod team has to clamp down on invalidation or gatekeeping or elitism on Arocalypse, and that isn't wanted here - then yes, that is a good reason AVEN shouldn't take over, as this is a point we are not going to compromise on.

 

I do hear what people are saying about wanting independence, which is again why we're having this discussion. A similar thing happened with transyada.net - a group of trans people migrated there from AVEN many years ago because of the transphobia on the latter. The transphobia was absolutely not something the leadership of AVEN at the time wanted, though arguably they didn't do enough to clamp down on it. The same may well be true of anti-aromanticism on AVEN, though I haven't seen as many complaints about that over the years as transphobia. The only assurance I can give is that the leadership of AVEN are uniformly supportive of aro visibility and inclusion. To those who have had sh**ty experiences on AVENen, I can only say I'm sorry, and we take responsibility for that.

 

I'd be interested to know if any of the above goes some way to addressing people's concerns. As already noted, the AVEN takeover is only one idea and I'm sure there are other ways of keeping the site running if the community as a whole prefers to avoid this route.

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if we can keep Arocalypse run by people inside the community then that will be my vote every time.

 

Same. I can be absolutely zero help with technical things unfortunately as I don't have the required skills or knowledge but several members have already offered to help with this. I would be happy to chip in for fees and help moderate the forums. Is there a Patreon/gofundme set up yet? If not that might be a start to allow those of us who have said we'll assist with money to actually do so.

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1 hour ago, cluebat said:

Is there a Patreon/gofundme set up yet? If not that might be a start to allow those of us who have said we'll assist with money to actually do so.

 

There is not because it's still an open question as to who will take over and who should run any sort of fundraising attempts if they are even needed. AUREA have discussed opening one of these if we do get the reigns, but we're holding off on things like opening donations till we know they're going to the right place.

 

1 hour ago, flergalwit said:

Sexual and romantic orientation are separate but there is no denying that the history of the two movements is highly interconnected, and most likely this will continue no matter what happens with Arocalypse. People still often learn about aromanticism through the asexual community. Many ace conferences are now explicitly ace & aros focussed (the UK asexuality conference being an important current exception, though this is under review). I see the relationship between the ace and aro community as much like that between the ace and broader LGBTQ+ community in many ways. I think we amplify each other's voices, though there is always a danger of a lesser known identity (such as aromanticism) being drowned out - something we need to work to prevent.

 

This is precisely why I would rather keep Arocalypse run by aros for aros. AVEN's offer, while appreciated, is similar to one of the big gay or lesbian organisations coming and offering aid to AVEN. Think how you would feel in that situation, should it ever come up. It's not that it isn't appreciated, but there's been enough support from existing members that I am, personally, confident we could easily see the forum into the future on our own. That is of course just my opinion, but the number of people responding in this thread with offers of money and time is testament to the viability of that, at least into the 12 month sort of time frame.

 

That said, I'm always open to consultation with the folks at AVEN. I'd just rather that the people running the show are foremost aros themselves - it feels too much like a potential conflict of interest otherwise.

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I don't mean to be rude, but like... This is part of why I don't want AVEN to be the ones to take over Arocalypse. You don't understand how toxic it is to allo aros to have aromanticism constantly tied to asexuality like this!

"People still often learn about aromanticism through the asexual community." YES. That's why I fucking hated myself from age 13 to age 18! That's why I thought I was fucking broken! That's why we CANNOT continue to let aromantic resources constantly go hand-in-hand with asexual resources. The connection between the aro community and the ace community may be important to aroaces, and yes, it is a part of our community history that cannot be denied, but what about the rest of us? Why is no one waxing poetic about, for example, the history between the aro community and the bi community? Because you do not view aromanticism and bisexuality as being tied together the same way you view aromanticism and asexuality as being tied together, even though, for me, a bisexual aromantic, they are tied together. 

In my experience, yes, the relationship between the ace community and the aro community is very much the same as the relationship between the ace community and the wider LGBTQ+ community- As in, some members of the larger community are welcoming to members of the smaller one, but in general the larger community rejects the smaller one and is full of microaggressions against members of the smaller community who don't fit their mold of what they think it should be, what they want it to be.  The fact that AVEN folks apparently think they have some holy sanctuary of enforced rules supporting allo aros shows just how much this is true; If your site is so well moderated, why do so many aros leave due to a hostile environment?

 

I know AVEN's intentions are good, and I appreciate that. I really do! I know you're not acting out of maliciousness. But you are acting out of ignorance. Before you start talking big, you need to put yourself in an allosexual aromantic's shoes- Yes, I do mean an allosexual aromantic, not just looking back on being an alloromantic asexual. Those two things are very different.

What may have done you a world of good may have done a world of harm to us, and if you're not even going to believe us when we express this... That really is not making a good case as to why we should let you handle the site.

 

Again, I know your intentions are genuinely good, and I thank you for reaching out. But it really would not be good for this community, and you need to understand why if you are to strengthen your allyship with the aro community. You need to understand that we are allies, not conjoined twins.

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OK, this is not the response I expected, but I respect what you all are saying. AVEN will become a backup plan if nobody else can get it working. I've already got a couple of candidates from inside the community and I'm just waiting until the end of day to see if any more volunteer. I plan on holding a general election between the candidates so you all can vote for your favorite.

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I'm not sure I understand what "AVEN folks apparently think they have some holy sanctuary of enforced rules supporting allo aros" even means. Maybe you can expand?

 

I don't think I've said the site is "so well moderated". As it happens I have a lot of time and appreciation for the AVEN admod team as I think they do a difficult and thankless job. That said, the moderation can definitely use improvement. The line between wanting open discussion and wanting a safe space for all sexual, romantic and gender identities can be a difficult one, and the admod team do not always get it right, in my opinion. The board intervened in a big way last year - see the above thread I linked on our invalidation policy.

 

"Why is no one waxing poetic about, for example, the history between the aro community and the bi community" - well I think that would be for bi people (or those involved in the bi community) to wax poetic about, if there is indeed such a history between the aro and bi communities. I don't know nearly as much about the bi community as the ace community (though I know there were actually many early connections between the *ace* community and the bi community, because we both fell outside the gay/straight binary, and especially early on many aces found a home in the bi community as they were equally sexually unattracted to any and all genders). I'm certainly not saying there isn't a long intertwined history between the aro and bi communities in the same way there is between the ace and aro communities, but if so I don't know about it, which is why I didn't bring it up.

 

We would be very receptive to amplifying / giving a platform to those who do wish to wax poetic about the connection between the bi and aro communities incidentally (whether or not Arocalypse has any formal assciation with AVEN).

 

Blue Phoenix - AVEN is only even going to be a backup plan if these issues are resolved to most people here's satisfaction (which so far isn't looking likely), and also with the agreement of the entire board. Please do look into alternatives; we'll support them if we can.

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We have also previously suggested another option. @Momo has agreed to handling the technical end of things, while finances would be covered by several people.  @Lokiana and @Magni have offered to be moderators indefinitely, although ideally we'd like to take on dedicated mods who could devote their time more fully to the forums, as both Lokiana and Magni are committed to other projects. The downside of this plan is that this team would have less experience running a forum specifically. The upside is that we're in touch with aro communities and our members have been active on the forums. It would also stay unaffiliated with AVEN, it's culture, and asexual communities in general by keeping the forums separate. There were originally hesitancies over whether we should take over as AUREA, as we don't wish to monopolize the aro communities, or let our offer be just be a few members lending a hand.  In light of the developments however, it is possible for the AUREA team to take over maintaining the forums. We'd like to know what other offers are on the table eventually, too, as maybe there is one that would be more beneficial to the community.

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19 minutes ago, AUREA said:

We have also previously suggested another option. @Momo has agreed to handling the technical end of things, while finances would be covered by several people.  @Lokiana and @Magni have offered to be moderators indefinitely, although ideally we'd like to take on dedicated mods who could devote their time more fully to the forums, as both Lokiana and Magni are committed to other projects. The downside of this plan is that this team would have less experience running a forum specifically. The upside is that we're in touch with aro communities and our members have been active on the forums. It would also stay unaffiliated with AVEN, it's culture, and asexual communities in general by keeping the forums separate. There were originally hesitancies over whether we should take over as AUREA, as we don't wish to monopolize the aro communities, or let our offer be just be a few members lending a hand.  In light of the developments however, it is possible for the AUREA team to take over maintaining the forums. We'd like to know what other offers are on the table eventually, too, as maybe there is one that would be more beneficial to the community.

 

@Momo is one of the two candidates I'm considering. @Phoenix the II is the other. I'll have more details tomorrow.

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6 hours ago, flergalwit said:

AVEN is only even going to be a backup plan if these issues are resolved to most people here's satisfaction (which so far isn't looking likely)

 

On the contrary, I think most, but not all, people here have been welcoming of AVEN as a backup plan, just not as it has been presented: as the best possible option.

 

 

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7 hours ago, flergalwit said:

Why is no one waxing poetic about, for example, the history between the aro community and the bi community" - well I think that would be for bi people (or those involved in the bi community) to wax poetic about, if there is indeed such a history between the aro and bi communities. I don't know nearly as much about the bi community as the ace community (though I know there were actually many early connections between the *ace* community and the bi community, because we both fell outside the gay/straight binary, and especially early on many aces found a home in the bi community as they were equally sexually unattracted to any and all genders). I'm certainly not saying there isn't a long intertwined history between the aro and bi communities in the same way there is between the ace and aro communities, but if so I don't know about it, which is why I didn't bring it up.

 

Are you seriously gonna sit there and say 'there is no denying that the history of the two movements (asexuality and aromanticism) is highly interconnected' and then turn around and talk about the connection between the bi and ace communities while claiming you don't know of any such connection between the bi and aro communities? 

 

Yea the ace and aro communities have been very connected in the past, to the point where we SHARE the connection with the bi community you're talking about. The bi community housed aros when we didnt have a name, just like it did aces, and many aros (like myself) thought they were bi before realising what aromanticism was. 

 

You really gonna try and claim our shared history while ignoring it one post later? 

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8 hours ago, flergalwit said:

I'm not sure I understand what "AVEN folks apparently think they have some holy sanctuary of enforced rules supporting allo aros" even means. Maybe you can expand?

 

Sure. What I mean is, myself and others mentioned that many aros have left AVEN, or never joined in the first place, due to hostility towards aros and especially towards allo aros. You and the other AVEN rep here said the following:

 

17 hours ago, Faeriefate said:

 

Also, to anyone concerned about how aromantics are treated on AVEN, we really don't allow allo aros to be harassed or invalidated. I do want you to know we crack down on that.

 

 

11 hours ago, flergalwit said:

The only assurance I can give is that the leadership of AVEN are uniformly supportive of aro visibility and inclusion.

 

These two things do not line up. If AVEN truly does "crack down" on such behavior, then why have so many aros distance themselves from AVEN? Why does so much of the aro community so strongly sideeye AVEN? If AVEN was completely welcoming towards aros, then the question of "should AVEN take up Arocalypse" wouldn't be nearly as controversial, because people would feel much more comfortable knowing that it's an inclusive and welcoming site, and thus we would be able to trust the people who would be working with us. But that's not the case.

The fact that everyone says "Yo, AVEN is horrible for aros" and everyone from AVEN says "Oh no no, that's not true, we definitely don't let that happen!" shows a. a level of unawareness towards aro issues and the aro presence on AVEN, and b. a lack of respect for the Arocalypse userbase, by denying our experiences or acting like they're some strange fluke. And while, again, I'm sure that's not done out of maliciousness so much as just not thinking carefully enough about it... That's still a thing. And it's not cool.

 

I hope that explanation made sense?

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9 hours ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

Why is no one waxing poetic about, for example, the history between the aro community and the bi community?

 

59 minutes ago, VoidArcana said:

The bi community housed aros when we didnt have a name

 

Sidenote, since I'm not familiar with what y'all are talking about, can I get a source where I can read up on this?

 

 

 

7 hours ago, AUREA said:

  @Lokiana and @Magni have offered to be moderators indefinitely

 

I see.

 

In that case, since ze's volunteering for the responsibility of moderation, I think now's an especially pressing time for Magni to demonstrate that ze can resolve the conflicts of zer own.

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19 minutes ago, Jot-Aro Kujo said:

I hope that explanation made sense?

 

Kind of. My opinion is that the moderation of AVEN is far from perfect, and yet I do have a lot of respect for the admod team, because they do a difficult and thankless task probably better than I could. No-one has said AVEN reaches any "holy sanctuary" standard of moderation.

 

In any case, it seems clear from feedback here that coming under AVEN isn't the right solution for the community. I wish the site well going forward.

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1 hour ago, Momo said:

 

On the contrary, I think most, but not all, people here have been welcoming of AVEN as a backup plan, just not as it has been presented: as the best possible option.

 

 

 

I'm not sure you're reading this thread Momo. :) So, here's the deal. There is no longer any deal with AVEN. It is not a safety net or backup plan for us now, and I don't see us bridging the gap of opinion in the next week.

 

I'm going to lock this thread for now, let y'all cool off a bit. Tomorrow, I'll be posting a new thread with some exciting news about the election for administrator.

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For those who have subscribed to this thread, this is a bump to let you know to go ahead and vote here:

 

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For posterity, the forums were migrated to a new server and live on! Reports of Arocalypses death have been greatly exaggerated.

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