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"friendzone"

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7 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

Well gay men, straight women, aros of any gender are less likely to fall for me? (Obviously there is no guarantee but you know, it's a lot less likely)

Well then I guess I'll have to stick with straight females until I move away because the amount of openly LGBTQ+ people is very low here. Every LGBTQ+ person I know moved away except for a bisexual ex-friend of mine.

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50 minutes ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

I think it's not so black-and-white. Romantic love is not always 'at first sight'. And regardless, the more someone crushing on you sees you or dreams about you, the deeper they're going to 'fall in love'.

 

Like sexual attraction romantic attraction can be either "primary" or "secondary"...

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2 hours ago, aroMa(n)tisse said:

I think it's not so black-and-white. Romantic love is not always 'at first sight'. And regardless, the more someone crushing on you sees you or dreams about you, the deeper they're going to 'fall in love'. Learning something they don't like about you early on would help them take the rational decision to stop fantasizing about you and do something else that will distract them from thinking about you, and would make their crush 'lighter' and shorter.

 

As you probably noticed, I have a very vague concept of how romantic attraction works, as I don't really have first hand experience.:D:aropride:

 

@Mark

What does primary and secondary mean in this context?

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7 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

 

As you probably noticed, I have a very vague concept of how romantic attraction works, as I don't really have first hand experience.:D:aropride:

 

@Mark

What does primary and secondary mean in this context?

 

Primary would be the "love at first sight" thing which alloromantics go out about a lot. (Also which they might confuse with another primary attraction, e.g. sexual.)


Secondary would be someone developing romantic feelings for someone they already have a non romantic relationship with.

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PLEASE PUT ME IN THE FRIENDZONE I WANT ALL THE FRIENDS xD In all seriousness, I get being disappointed that someone rejects your advances, but if you were only acting like someone's friend so you could be "upgraded" to something else then you're not just a crappy friend but also a crappy person. All through high school (before I knew I was aro), I was so terrified my guy friends were going to come on to me. I remember one time my friend group was sitting around talking about the friendzone issue and how saying "I'm so glad we're friends"  is code for "I'm not interested in you" so I stood up and half-jokingly told everyone something along the lines of "Just so you all know, I'M SO GLAD WE'RE FRIENDS" One of my guy friends that had a thing for me was grumpy but he got over it tolerably well.

 

"I'm so glad we're friends" is a nice code phrase to say every once in a while if you think a friend might be interested in you romantically, if what I'm saying. :D 

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On 11.6.2016 at 10:44 PM, hangryeowyn said:

"I'm so glad we're friends" is a nice code phrase to say every once in a while if you think a friend might be interested in you romantically, if what I'm saying. :D 

This is such a cool thing, I'll definitely use that xD

 

I feel uncomfortable if somebody get's interested in me pretty fast, but I've also accepted that the other doesn't have ill intentions. I even get that people in love sometimes want a relationship or nothing and if time away from me helps them to focus their affection on someone who'd reciprocate it, that's fine, too. It  hurts for sure, specially if you liked the person as a friend, but it's not like they fall in love on purpose either, so I guess I'll just have to life with whatever they decided for their own peace of mind. 

 

But if that person becomes clingy, want's me to emotionally tip-toe around them because I somehow "own" them, because they fell in love with me (something I have 0 control over). In other words, if they bother me with the "friendzone"-argument, I reserve the right to get royally pissed. I get that it's not their fault for falling in love, but it's also not my responsibility to somehow handle their feelings for them! It's a shitty situation for both parties, but you don't hear people complain about the "romance-zone"!

 

tldr; in my book, anyone complaining about the friendzone is a needy little fedora wearing asshole who can't handle their own emotions and need someone to blame for not getting their way like a toddler

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I had a friend who had a crush on me years before I knew I was ace/aro, and he very much had the "friendzone" mentality. He felt that I wasn't being nice for not liking him back, and he said I should "share" my body with people, among other things. Fortunately, he has since apologized, because I still see him once a year. 

 

It's worth saying, though, that not everyone who uses that term means it the same way. I know several people who use it, but use it in a "Aww, I got friend zoned, sad!" way instead of a "How DARE they not be interested in me!" way. 

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4 hours ago, Quinoa said:

It's worth saying, though, that not everyone who uses that term means it the same way. I know several people who use it, but use it in a "Aww, I got friend zoned, sad!" way instead of a "How DARE they not be interested in me!" way. 

Very much agreed. Though there seems to be a fair amount of erasure of the former group of people. I'm  more "I wanted  QPR I was offered purely platonic. What did I do wrong?"
Where does the fedora thing come from anyway.

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4 minutes ago, Mark said:

Where does the fedora thing come from anyway.

The fedora thing comes from "nice guys". That term meaning guys who only act nice to women in order to get into a romantic and/or sexual relationship with them. These "nice guys" are stereotyped to like wearing fedoras (and to be fair, the stereotype isn't exactly unfounded).

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I hate it when guys put me in the "girlfriend zone," where they can't see me as a potential friend only as potential dating material. Please, by all means, stick me in the friend zone where I'll be happiest. I've had a friend who friend zoned a guy and as soon as she made it clear that she would not date him he turned into a raging a**hole. 

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On 2016. 06. 15. at 7:51 AM, Mark said:

Where does the fedora thing come from anyway.

The association of the hat and the type of person is weird.

I usually see those guys wearing a trilby not a fedora.

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I had to explain "squish" to my classmates once. One of them said something that really hurt. He was basically like, "but isn't that really mean though?" and something along the lines of being a bad friend if because squishing meant I immediately friendzoned the person. 

I really wanted to retort and everything but like, that really hurt? And being quite introverted I couldn't gather my thoughts fast enough for a counter argument and it still rankles.

I don't understand why people don't want to be in the friendzone. I personally find it very nice. 

Sometimes I think I need a sign above me that say like "anyone I socialize with is automatically friendzoned"

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I thought I'd share for some positivity =D

Seems relevant enough! :icecream:

Spoiler

 

 

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"So, you were friendzoned... So try to move on. They aren't interested in you bud, stay friends with them and find someone who wants your romantic advances! I get that you may have had a crush on them, and that rejection stings, but remember that there are plenty of other people who might want to end up in a relationship with you, so don't focus on this one person. You may need some time to grieve for the-relationship-that-will-not-be, that's fine, but try to move on. And don't ever become mean, because meanness has a way of making you below most people's standards of friend or romantic partner. Just go with the idea and be nice to everyone, you'll probably find somebody who you love and they'll love you back just as much. Take care!"

-- my response to somebody who says that they were friendzoned in a non-aggressive fashion.

 

If they were mean, I'd probably try the same thing, and if it didn't work I'd either invite them to a cup of tea to get them firing on all cylinders again (if they were my friend/a nice acquaintance) or just decide they aren't worth my time being so rude.

 

But friendzone tends to be used in a very selfish manner, like "They friendzoned me, f#@$ them, f#@$ all the things!" That's just rude and they should keep in mind that the other person had a reason to reject their advances.

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On 5/19/2016 at 9:04 PM, omitef said:

A lot of allos, I've noticed, seem to see friendship as a precursor to inevitable romance

Yeah. Both in the sense of friendships inevitably leading to romance, and only having friends (of the gender(s) they're attracted to) as a means of romance.

Like this:

On 6/11/2016 at 9:44 PM, hangryeowyn said:

In all seriousness, I get being disappointed that someone rejects your advances, but if you were only acting like someone's friend so you could be "upgraded" to something else then you're not just a crappy friend but also a crappy person.

On 5/16/2016 at 9:59 PM, Simowl said:

I kind of understand why people would be upset if they're only friends with someone and not dating, but if you start complaining that you're in the friendzone, there's about a 99% chance I won't take you seriously.

Most people who say it use it as an excuse to shame the person ((typically women)) they asked out into feeling bad for not wanting to date them, and just generally being an ass ¬¬

Yeah. For me, if someone says "boo hoo I'm in the friendzone!" then it's difficult for me to take them seriously as far as relationships are concerned. Negative outlooks are OK, but why not phrase them differently - like, "I was rejected" or something?

On 6/11/2016 at 9:44 PM, hangryeowyn said:

 

PLEASE PUT ME IN THE FRIENDZONE I WANT ALL THE FRIENDS xD

 

WE ARE THE SAME PERSON!

 

 

On 6/15/2016 at 3:06 AM, Quinoa said:

He felt that I wasn't being nice for not liking him back, and he said I should "share" my body with people, among other things.

"Sharing" a body is as awful concept - "oh now that we're a couple you're no longer your own person" O.o

On 6/21/2016 at 10:22 AM, Kojote said:

I thought I'd share for some positivity =D

Seems relevant enough! :icecream:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

This video is so awesome!

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Oh my gosh, I know. I always ask myself why people get so upset over only being friends with someone. I also wonder why people find it so weird when I am only friends with someone of the opposite gender or want to be freidns with them without it leading to a romantic relationships. I always get down talked when I make a big deal about a friendship and degraded when I talk about how much having freinds means to me. Its like it offends people for no good reason that I want deep, meaningful relationships without ever having a romantic one.

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On 14/09/2016 at 7:59 PM, Kaiger Pufflehugs IV said:

For me, if someone says "boo hoo I'm in the friendzone!" then it's difficult for me to take them seriously as far as relationships are concerned. Negative outlooks are OK, but why not phrase them differently - like, "I was rejected" or something?

 

 

Unfortunately the concept of friendzone carries a certain sense of entitlement. Its kind of implied that this is only stage one, they plan to keep trying until they "get out of the zone", PUAs teach this bullshit.

Spoiler
Quote

"UNDERSTAND THE PSYCHOLOGY BEHIND IT

In order to get out of the friend zone, you need to first work out why she might be doing it and this will give you a better understanding of how you can stop it from happening any further.

  • If she has a boyfriend (or even if she doesn’t) she still likes the comfort of having a guy like you pandering to her. You buy her drinks, call her and listen to her moaning about stuff for hours, buy her dinner… and give her the attention she craves.
  • She doesn’t want to start a relationship with you mainly because it could ruin the relationship she has going with you. The easy ride.

BREAK THE PATTERN

By breaking the current pattern, you will kickstart feelings she wouldn’t have felt for you before (the same feelings you have for her)… but you need to cool throughout the process. Don’t turn into that needy little bitch that she uses.

  • When on the phone, make an excuse to end the conversation mid flow. Like “Hey listen, I need to go I’m cooking at the minute and something is burning, I’ll speak to you in a bit”.
  • When you’re busy, don’t meet her or make special plans for her. Treat her like a normal friend “Hey, yeah sorry I have plans already… maybe another time though”.
  • When you hug her, hug her like a friend would… no creepy needy stuff. Pat her on the back, hug her with one arm and throw her off the scent.
  • Make remarks about other girls when you’re with her. “Oh she’s hot” and “Do you have any hot friends you can introduce me too?”
  • Talk about dates you’ve been on with other girls (don’t rub it in too much though).

SHOW HER YOU’RE A HIGH VALUE MALE

  • Be the guy that’s in demand – When she tries her usual tricks, block her and make her think that you’re a high value in demand man. This will make her want to chase you and work for you.
  • Stop being predictable – If you speak at a certain place… stop going there. If she calls you at a certain time, don’t answer the phone. Don’t reply to texts too quickly, just make her feel like you’re cool without her and have a life.

GETTING HER INTERESTED IN YOU

Now you’ve thrown her off the scent, you want to spark some interest and make her think about what it would be like if she dated you.

  • Look for signs of attraction – Is she asking you whether she looks good in a dress? Is she touching you a lot more than she used to? Is she flirting? These are all signs that she’s starting to like you more than a friend.
  • Meetup with her – Now that she’s interested you need to create a situation where you’re both alone having a drink together so you can escalate physically, but in a playful way.
  • Kiss her – Mid-way through the interaction, give her a quick kiss on the lips (hold her face and do it in a sensual way) then say “Hold a minute, we shouldn’t be doing this… this is so bad”. Then kiss her again and say the same thing. She will begin to justify why it’s a good thing which is what you want."

 

 How scary is that? It literally suggests to get her intoxicated "so you can escalate physically" and then to gaslight her. That is an abuse tactic.

 

These people don't see being "only friends" as a rejection. It is implied that they see it as a challange.

It is implied that they think if they pressure you, nag you, court you, you'll change your mind.

 

So I do take them seriously. If someone seriously talks like that it's kinda creepy.

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if someone nags me after I've told them we're just friends. they've just entered the de-friended zone :lol: if they're unhappy well. they wanted change, and I delivered :P

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The idea of the "friendzone" is so entitled... It's obviously valid to be upset and disappointed if you get rejected, but that doesn't make the other person wrong just because they aren't interested in you... People think they're entitled to a relationship with their friend just for being nice, as if friendship isn't good enough. It bugs me.

 

I once got into an argument with a friend about the "friendzone" and I honestly don't think he understood what I was trying to say. He said that it's not fair when girls "lead him on" and make him think they're flirting but then they're not. I was like, not everybody sees the same actions as flirting or realizes their actions may come off that way! And just because someone is being nice doesn't mean they're flirting!

 

He then went on to basically try to invalidate my opinion based on the fact that I've never experienced romantic feelings for anyone, and essentially implied that he didn't even believe me. And then when I got really upset, he sent me a very long apology a couple hours later. Ah, good times!

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One burning issue I have what if the "nice guy" is genuinely being nice? Like don't arseyoume anything!

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On 11/8/2016 at 9:07 AM, Louis Hypo said:

One burning issue I have what if the "nice guy" is genuinely being nice? Like don't arseyoume anything!

 

Being nice and claiming you are nice are two fundamentally different things. 

If you have to state clearly that you are a nice person, there is something fundamentally wrong. People will not think someone is nice because that person pressures them to do so. A genuinely nice person is more concerned about making sure the other one is comfortable abound them, doing nice things because they genuinely care not because they want to achieve something.

 

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So I woke up with these intense feelings of digust and anger towards all forms or harassment and sexism, so there you go, part two.

I dunno, it must be the weather... 

 I realised this may not be obvious to everyone, so lets go into detail a bit. Aka how to be a decent human being when interacting with people who are triggered by this sort of stuff.

 

Spoiler

Especially from a privileged perspecive this may not be obvious, but there is a reason why some people are reacting with panic and fear to gestures of chivarly. Because there are men who offer to pay for your drinks because they want to get you drunk. There are men who offer to pay for your ticket, meal, whatever else because they want to make you feel like you are in their debt. You know how many women are afraid to say no, so they rather order something cheap, so the guy doesn't feel that entitled to have sex with her? There are men who offer to carry your suitcase to demonstrate their superior strength. There are men who keep insisting and pressuring you after you told them "thank you, but no thank you". You know how scary it is when a guy insists on 'helping you' to take your coat off after you told them no? Its just a coat but they are still taking off your clothes. There are people who are triggered by people raising their voices or making sudden movements or gestures of courtesy. There are people who are afraid to be accompanied by men on their way home. They may feel safer on their own than with them because it can be interpreted as an invite to stay at their place to have sex, or don't want to be alone with them in a non-social space where there are no withnesses or don't want to show them where they live as it may lead to stalking, etc.

 

It may not obvious who is a survivor, just because someone looks strong and big they can still be one. Its not always neccesarily sexual violence, it can be domestic or institutional or other...point is, don't assume.

 

A few tips:

  • A genuinely nice person does hear a no and respects it.
  • A genuinely nice person isn't offended by people feeling intimidated by them. Don't make this about your ego.
  • Say sorry. For scaring them and for whatever reason they may feel scared in the first place. Don't ask intrusive questions.
  • Make an effort to act less scary. Instead of saying that you aren't, prove it. Use a calm voice, slower movements, don't stare, respect personal space.
  • Validate them, seriously, admitting that your actions may be scary to some is reassuring, do the opposite of gaslighting. Make sure it does not sound like you displaying your power, don't go into details, don't give them a lecture or try to explain.
  • Allow them space and autonomy, let them pay for their own things, let them carry their own heavy luggage if they choose to, ask for consent, let them define boundaries.  Offering a hug or any other form of touch is not comforting in this situation.
  • Keep it simple. Let them move on. A simple and calm "I'm sorry, that was scary. I won't do it again" is enough. 

 

(please feel free to add)

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On 08/11/2016 at 9:07 AM, Louis Hypo said:

One burning issue I have what if the "nice guy" is genuinely being nice? Like don't arseyoume anything!

I watched a hilarious video about the internet's reaction to nice guys and oh my goodness it's so preposterous. You have people who turn psycho the second you reject them for being a bit unnatural. An argument raised was that bad boys will get rejected just as much but they don't wail about it every time like a 5 year old. The supposed nice guys also called any woman who rejected them a bunch of horrible names. Jeez if I wasn't already aromantic I would do everything in my power not to stoop that low. I am educated now and that's somewhere I'm never setting foot!

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On 11/8/2016 at 1:45 PM, Cassiopeia said:

 

Being nice and claiming you are nice are two fundamentally different things. 

If you have to state clearly that you are a nice person, there is something fundamentally wrong. People will not think someone is nice because that person pressures them to do so. A genuinely nice person is more concerned about making sure the other one is comfortable abound them, doing nice things because they genuinely care not because they want to achieve something.

 

True. I went to a mental health conference some years ago with people from Mind, and somehow we ended up bringing this other random dude with us when we went home again, who took a bit of a shine to me for some reason, and asked if I wanted to go for a drink when we got back into town. It was absolutely roasting, and he seemed OK so I agreed (though I was more interested in getting a Coke than him lol), but wished I hadn't cos he was saying "you can trust me" but at the same time trying to give unsolicited hugs and asking if I wanted to go back to his house when we'd only just met -__-

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