(A)Sexuality Poll

[Cassiopeia]

14 hours ago, Natkat said:

I did have the experience my bi-comunity did reconize these difference, like when they write out their folders they say words like bisexual/biromantic instead of just bisexual, they also had learned about asexuality which might had infected their way of thinking, however I dont know it they had aro awareness but it were a start at least.

 

I think tumblr user prokopetz made an excellent point, bi/pan people as a community have been put though the same sh⋆tstorm a while ago that the ace and/or aro community faces now.

It's because they know. They will just not use the same kind of argument they had to combat for a decade.

 

On 2016. 04. 16. at 6:04 PM, Mark said:

I wonder if aro aces and aro allos tend to respond differently to amatonorimativity.

 

Yeah, there are parallels, and awful stuff we both face. Like the issue of friendships being considered second rate human conncetions.

But we also tend to face a different variety of hate. Quite the opposite actually.

Like aces aren't sl⋆t shamed, seen as immoral, heartless, animalistic sexual creatures that stomp all over their alloromantic (sexual) partner's feelings.  Aroaces are stereotyped as childish, prudish socially awkward loners and shamed and ridiculed for that.

So the reaction will be different, because the offence is quite often different?

 

[Tal Shi'ar]

I put down grey ace for this. While I've pretty much always gone with being hetero grey ro/ace, lately I've been going with gyne, although I sorta do wonder if I'm more one than the other. I do question myself a lot with how grey I am or not though.

[Mark]

19 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

Yeah, there are parallels, and awful stuff we both face. Like the issue of friendships being considered second rate human conncetions.

But we also tend to face a different variety of hate. Quite the opposite actually.

Like aces aren't sl⋆t shamed, seen as immoral, heartless, animalistic sexual creatures that stomp all over their alloromantic (sexual) partner's feelings.  Aroaces are stereotyped as childish, prudish socially awkward loners and shamed and ridiculed for that.

 

My experience is that the vast majority of people will assume that my being aro also means I am ace. It's often been made very clear to me that being sexually attracted to people without romantic interest is "just wrong". I've certainly encountered plenty of shaming, though more along the lines that I should just shut up until I find "the one".

The most I have ever been able to put up with trying a romantic relationship for is about 10 weeks. With one of the problems being that it felt my feelings were being "stomped on". Even in the unlikely case of someone asked me for one now I'd definitely say no.

My attempts to form queer platonic relationships tend either to end up purely platonic or going nowhere. I've certainly never been able to manage one with someone I'm sexually attracted to

[Cassiopeia]

7 hours ago, Mark said:

 

My experience is that the vast majority of people will assume that my being aro also means I am ace. It's often been made very clear to me that being sexually attracted to people without romantic interest is "just wrong". I've certainly encountered plenty of shaming, though more along the lines that I should just shut up until I find "the one".

I guess because you are a guy. I did not dare to be so open about it, because queer women don't really do casual sex, especially not as lifestyle, and I'm legit scared that I'll be lynched if the word gets out.

 

But yeah, people I told (including my mum) either see me as homohomo homoromo or as aroace, and if I try to explain, they go into selective hearing mode or they think its a joke.

[Mark]

3 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

I guess because you are a guy. I did not dare to be so open about it, because queer women don't really do casual sex, especially not as lifestyle, and I'm legit scared that I'll be lynched if the word gets out.

 

I'm typically not that open about things.
Have found very little opportunity for casual sex anyway.
In an idea world I'd want sexual partners who were also friends.

[Cassiopeia]

4 hours ago, Mark said:

I'm typically not that open about things.
Have found very little opportunity for casual sex anyway.
In an idea world I'd want sexual partners who were also friends.

Yeah, in an ideal world...we wouldn't have the stigma, the whole feelings mess. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

But if I have to choose, friendship is more important, because I can find attractive people quite easily, but friendship, that level of understanding is rare, so I'd not sacrifice it. (Anyway we are going off topic here, so I'll shut up)

 

Btw I love the topic title, it kind of has a double meaning, like a circled A for relationship anarchy?

[breaddd]

On 4/21/2016 at 5:51 PM, Cassiopeia said:

Btw I love the topic title, it kind of has a double meaning, like a circled A for relationship anarchy?

I thought it was because asexuality isn't a sexuality, it's a lack of sexuality? Correct me if I'm wrong.

[Spud]

1 hour ago, breaddd said:

I thought it was because asexuality isn't a sexuality, it's a lack of sexuality? Correct me if I'm wrong.

Actually, I guess I unconsciously did that. When I think about it, I guess asexuality isn't technically a sexuality, so it would seem kind of weird to say "my sexuality is asexuality." The only thing that makes it seem like one is when someone asks your orientation and you reply "I'm ace." It's similar to atheism (it's a lack of belief in God, but when asked about your religion or something along those lines, most people would say "I'm an atheist"). I wasn't really thinking about it while making the title but it was kind of a subconscious thing I guess

Edit:

On 4/21/2016 at 6:51 PM, Cassiopeia said:

Btw I love the topic title, it kind of has a double meaning, like a circled A for relationship anarchy?

This is a cool meaning too

[morallygayro]

On 4/18/2016 at 7:46 PM, Cassiopeia said:

And maybe the LGBTQ+ community. I literally haven't seen any allo aros who were heterosexual and cis.

I have a cousin who is. She's intersex though.

I'm a lesbian, and I identify that way because even though I'm sometimes attracted to nonbinary people who aren't woman aligned, I technically fit the definition of gray-asexuality (I just don't identify with it, or as allosexual) and if I ever do have sex I'd rather it be with another woman (I'm almost nineteen...I don't think I can call myself a girl anymore).

 

I don't draw strict lines between friendship and romance with women, I just fall in love without reservations. I'm also really confused as to whether I even feel romantic attraction or not. I have definitely had a crush on a girl before, though.

[LunarSeas]

I seem to be one of those super rare allosexual cis-het aros. *twirls*

For most of my life, I wasn't even aware romantic orientation was even a thing, I just thought I had a high sex drive (I mean, I kinda do...) and got bored easily. It took making online ace friends to even find out about any of this. 

 

Even before I knew about arospec anything, I've already had plenty of sl*tshaming to last me a lifetime. Some of it from an ex who treated my "playing the field" before dating him as "desperate." I wanted to scream. Now it's starting to make sense why the things he said made me so damn angry. 

[Nai]

I checked ace for the first one, but I checked gray-ace for the second. I'm really gray, but I consider myself more on the asexual end than the sexual end.

[Mark]

On 28/04/2016 at 1:16 AM, LunarSeas said:

I seem to be one of those super rare allosexual cis-het aros. *twirls*

For most of my life, I wasn't even aware romantic orientation was even a thing, I just thought I had a high sex drive (I mean, I kinda do...) and got bored easily. It took making online ace friends to even find out about any of this.

I doubt hetero-aros are that rare. (Given that hetero is the most common orientation amongst allo-sexuals.)
It's more a question of how would someone identify that they are aro when the most likely reactions from their peers are "You just need to find the one" or "There's someone for everyone". Unless you were to know people within the ace community (and to a lesser extent LGBT or poly communities) there appears nothing to challenge amantonormative assumptions.
 

[Rising Sun]

I had some kind of complicated relationship with an aromantic sexual man, he was straight, or at least that's what he said (I always had a few doubts about that).

I really don't think that being aromantic and straight is rare. It's a minority, sure. But it isn't that rare to see couples who admit that they're FWB who are very attached to each other.

[paporomantic]

On 4/19/2016 at 2:46 AM, Cassiopeia said:

And maybe the LGBTQ+ community. I literally haven't seen any allo aros who were heterosexual and cis.

 

I think heterosexual cis aros are more likely to be closeted than homo/pansexual/transgender ones. The latter already have an experience of coming out as being in a minority (LGBTQ+), so acknowledging that they're deviant in some other way is easier for them. On the other hand, cis-heterosexuals may feel that it's still better for them to stick with the majority socially, even though the majority is prone to erasing and humiliating them hard (may think they're mean or cold-hearted).

 

I suspect there are a few hetero-cis-aros in my professional community that is extremely normative. I used to recommend AVEN to them, but now I'm going to direct them to Arocalypse instead when a discussion arises about relationships.

[Hey you in the corner]

The only reason I found out about this site was through AVEN. 

[Louis On Air]

2 hours ago, Hey you in the corner said:

The only reason I found out about this site was through AVEN. 

Well welcome to Not-AVEN, or as most people like to call it: Arocalypse! 

I hope to see you around.

[Spectrul Sânge Rece]

Hello people, nice to be here. Since I experience relationships in a non-normative way it's nice to be around folks I can talk to about it.

[Hey you in the corner]

1 hour ago, Louis Hypo said:

Well welcome to Not-AVEN, or as most people like to call it: Arocalypse! 

I hope to see you around.

Thanks Louis.

[XesEri]

On 4/16/2016 at 1:04 PM, Mark said:

 

Did the concept of "romantic orientation" originate within the ace community?

 

I wonder if aro aces and aro allos tend to respond differently to amatonorimativity.

I would say that aro allo people tend to be more likely to be in (for lack of a better word, forgive me, I don't like it either) "alloro passing" relationships. Because we are constantly told that sex without romantic love is either nonexistant or unacceptable in society (eg, the cheating bi/pan stereotype), we seek out relationships that fulfill sexual attraction while also being romantic enough from an outsider's perspective to look alloro.

Plus, typically nobody says anything about aromanticism until waaay down the identity rabbit hole, god forbid the person is cis/heterosexual and aro, they may never find out.

tl;dr: allo aro people are less likely to learn about being aro in general, then having sexual partners erases being aro thanks to good ol' amatonormativity.

[Mark]

11 hours ago, XesEri said:

I would say that aro allo people tend to be more likely to be in (for lack of a better word, forgive me, I don't like it either) "alloro passing" relationships.

Maybe for people who can tolerate such "passing relationships".
They were never what I was interested in relationshipwise and I found them repulsive to attempt.

[Saber_Wing]

Asexual definitely, but I'm not sex repulsed. I just literally don't care at all about it, and I'm obviously not sexually attracted by anyone. I'm pretty romance repulsed, but sex is just there as far as I'm concerned.

[iigolden]

Asexual all the way!!  

[Mark]

On 01/06/2016 at 1:20 PM, paporomantic said:

I think heterosexual cis aros are more likely to be closeted than homo/pansexual/transgender ones. The latter already have an experience of coming out as being in a minority (LGBTQ+), so acknowledging that they're deviant in some other way is easier for them. On the other hand, cis-heterosexuals may feel that it's still better for them to stick with the majority socially, even though the majority is prone to erasing and humiliating them hard (may think they're mean or cold-hearted).

There's probably some truth that someone who has come out as non normative in some way can find it easier to come out as non normative in another way. This could apply to poly, ND, kink, etc as well as LGBT+.

 

I think awareness (including self awareness) of aromantism is a factor here. With few heterosexuals having even encountered the concept of romantic orientation or that it can differ from sexual orientation. (That can still be the case even if they have contact with the LGBTQ+ community.)
Whilst they are virtual certain to encounter attitudes like "You'll change your mind"; "Not met the right person yet."; etc. Which makes it difficult for anyone to realise that romantic relationships are the wrong thing for them.
 

On 01/06/2016 at 1:20 PM, paporomantic said:

I suspect there are a few hetero-cis-aros in my professional community that is extremely normative. I used to recommend AVEN to them, but now I'm going to direct them to Arocalypse instead when a discussion arises about relationships.

Whilst there is useful information for aros on AVEN the discussion forums are unlikely to be much use to aro allos, even if they are not outright hostile to non aces.

[Cassiopeia]

6 hours ago, Mark said:

I think awareness (including self awareness) of aromantism is a factor here. With few heterosexuals having even encountered the concept of romantic orientation or that it can differ from sexual orientation. (That can still be the case even if they have contact with the LGBTQ+ community.)
Whilst they are virtual certain to encounter attitudes like "You'll change your mind"; "Not met the right person yet."; etc. Which makes it difficult for anyone to realise that romantic relationships are the wrong thing for them.

 

And there is a great deal of surpression.

I guess quite a few aros and aces who have been in a classical sexual-romantic relationship go through a phase of denial.

Young people are encouraged to try dating at such a young age, by the time you reach that state of self awareness, you can esasily have several failed relationships. The older you get, the more commitments you have, the harder it is to be honest about these things.

 

Even if they realise something is seriously wrong, they will try to bargain and brush the whole issue under the carpet. There are thought patterns (I guess out of fear, shame, feeling alone and broken), an urge to conform and an urge to pass as 'normal'...and wanting to please the partner. Ironically this even can be a gesture of non-romantic love.

This is fine, I was just spoiled by the affection my familiy and friends gave me, everything pales in comparsion that's why I feel this empty.

Its my trauma, mental illness or my ex that made me this messed up, I can fix this. Calling it orientation would just normlise being this way, and I don't want this to last forever.

My partner loves me, I am just ungrateful. In return they would deserve more, I'm not going to talk about it because I don't want to hurt them on top of it.

Our relationship isn't abusive, I'm not coerced in any way, so I have no reason or right to be uncomfortable. 

If I do X and Y for them, then I will make up for the things I can't give to them. 

Even though I can feel something is wrong, I know I don't feel the way I should, but I'll just shut up because this is as good as it gets. 

This reationship isn't working, but the next one will.

 

This sort of bargaining and suppressing was a thing you have heard about gay men. Especially before homosexuality became a more socially accepable way of being, queer people had not just beards, but full relationships and marriages they did not really want. However desireing to be with men is also an important part of that narrative, that is what usually made the lie fall apart.

 

From an a-spec perspective It's more complex, because quite often people have no idea what they want instead. There is no obvious alternative, nothing to motivate them to get out of these unhappy and dysfunctional relationships and stop trying to fix something that isn't broken.

[Mark]

5 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

I guess quite a few aros and aces who have been in a classical sexual-romantic relationship go through a phase of denial.

Young people are encouraged to try dating at such a young age, by the time you reach that state of self awareness, you can esasily have several failed relationships.

Maybe my experience isn't that typical. Since I ended up trying this kind of relationship in my twenties, because I couldn't find anyone who even comprehended what I actually wanted and to see if it was "good enough".

 

5 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

The older you get, the more commitments you have, the harder it is to be honest about these things.

There's the idea that amantonormative relationships are more "mature". A few other posters have described opportunities for other forms of relationships becoming rarer the older they get.

 

5 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

Even if they realise something is seriously wrong, they will try to bargain and brush the whole issue under the carpet. There are thought patterns (I guess out of fear, shame, feeling alone and broken), an urge to conform and an urge to pass as 'normal'...and wanting to please the partner. Ironically this even can be a gesture of non-romantic love.

From a very easily age I found the concept of a singular partner strange. Didn't take much to conclude that being on my own sucked a little less than trying to be coupled. With passing for "normal" never really being an option anyway.
 

6 hours ago, Cassiopeia said:

From an a-spec perspective It's more complex, because quite often people have no idea what they want instead. There is no obvious alternative, nothing to motivate them to get out of these unhappy and dysfunctional relationships and stop trying to fix something that isn't broken.

There's also what I've dubbed a "reverse newspeak effect". It's difficult to explain what you want if your language does not have the words for it.I spent a rather frustrating time around 1990 trying to explain how I wanted friendship, non-exclusivity, autonomy along with mutual consent and negotiation.