Apathetic Echidna

I sort of accidently came out to an almost stranger because I really just don't care that much anymore. We were in a group talking about relationships and I just said 'being aromantic' then made the hand-pass-over-the-head (with a whoosh noise) movement then went to eat more food.

I am sort of conflicted, It would have been great to know all the aro stuff I know now back when I was 16-17 (which is when I first heard of asexual) rather than 26. However, it is a community much richer with connections, platforms, and vocabulary now than what it was. So even if I knew I would have still felt isolated and vaguely threatened, like ....the only duck on the shooting range. .........actually knowing in highschool would probably have been much worse for me because knowing about aromanticism has made me more sensitive to microagressions and aphobia. And it just happens my ex-bestfriend is/was very aphobic among other things...

I assume that it would be used in the same way people use the term Beard(? maybe) so that would be along the lines of 'He is my peach fuzz', 'we are being each other's peach fuzz', 'we are peach fuzz for each other' I make the assumption peach fuzz is already a plural, like fish, because peach fuzzs sounds (and looks) wrong

In Australia we had those 'love is love' posters everywhere for a few years and every time I saw one I got annoyed, which built up to being mad at the end of most days I was spending out in the city. Though, they are part of the reason I discovered I was aromantic, because I had to ask myself why they made me angry. When I see them now they make me more angry because I know I am aro, so they feel more offensive. Hi and Welcome! rants are good to let feelings out, very cathartic.

oh yes. do you have a particular favourite/recommendation? I was in and out of hospital a few times last month with pains (still slightly mysterious though I have a diagnosis, but the doctors followed it with a few question marks, so is it a diagnosis if it is a Diagnosis???) and the only thing better than their hospital painkillers was covering my belly with Goanna balm and hopping on a treadmill.

It is one point that seems to come up a lot. I think what delayed my own investigation into romantic orientation was the fact I do like some books and movies that have no plot beyond a sickly sweet romance story. It was only when I was early-mid twenties that it became very apparent that I wasn't following a romantic-normative path and started questioning. And when I seriously started questioning what relationship would make me happy in the future, seriously questioning my assumptions, the 'man of my dreams' morphed into a flatmate and a dog as the ideal. (I will apologise for some of my grammar in my original post though. I didn't realise my sentences were quite so punctuationless and run-on until I re-read them just now) Thank you for writing this out. The bad/wrong/broken side of the binary does get internalised by aro-specs quite often (myself included), when it is completely untrue. We are who we are.

I totally agree with @Blake that the most important thing right now is to take that break. Reading around here, especially other people's stories, will definitely help you find things to relate or contrast to. We are not only informed by things we understand and like but also by all the things that we reject. Blake says some really good stuff, so I will just add two points. You might want to learn the word Amatonormativity which basically means romantic relationships are prioritised above other sorts of relationships. As you have been dating you have probably been butting up against it fairly constantly, but it is also present in more subtle ways that you have been seeing all your life in movies, books, advertisements, blah blah..basically everything, which informs social expectations and personal aspirations (you don't have to agree with me here, it is just how I see things). Which brings me to the second point: We do like to make a distinction between fantasy romance and reality romance. When romance is directed at us in our minds or a story many aromantic/a-specs are fine with it (maybe they like it or maybe they are bored, but they are not particuarly negative) but those same people when presented with someone real being romantically interested can cause feelings of revulsion or dislike or anxiety basically all bad stuff. So all of your wedding planning and dream future is a 'safe' fantasy romance and doesn't particularly help you form an idea of what your orientation might be because we are taught from early (because of amatonormativity) that romance is good/universal/life goal. So think over what you really (reality) like and what made you anxious or uncomfortable, using this hindsight to work out what your boundaries are. Letting your future partner know you are aromantic-spectrum (or still questioning it) might reduce overall stress and you might find your boundaries shift simply because the underlying romantic expectation is relieved. Sorry if I rambled my thoughts too much and I wish you the best of luck @Jameseroo !

As you don't know if it is 'normal' or not, it is possible that they also don't know how to keep things platonic in a relationship? maybe they just make assumptions about what progression happens when something becomes a relationship. This all boils down to you asserting your boundaries. Tell them when you are uncomfortable, and if they start interrogating you about why you are uncomfortable don't let them make you feel like it is your problem. If you cannot articulate why you feel uncomfortable that is fine, vocabulary and communication can be hard and some people just don't want to understand, so say something along the lines of: This action/activity/word makes me uncomfortable and I am asking you to stop, the reasons why I feel uncomfortable are not as important than respecting my wishes. This one might have to be a conversation about what the relationship really is (as compared to a conversation about boundaries, though you probably need to talk about them too). If you didn't talk about what sort of bond you had, well now is the time to go over that. If this person is truly seeking a romantic relationship you will have to make it clear that you are not the person for that. This might give you some help with boundaries if you don't know where to start, or maybe give you some new ideas On a final note, heavily biased from personal experience, if you are truly worried about them self-harming because of their possible reaction take some psychiatrist/therapist/counsellor numbers or fliers with you because if they are really in that state they need professional help. Also because threatening self-harm is a form of domestic abuse and control...so if they are holding it over you just get out of the situation and if you are still worried call the cops for a wellness check a few hours later.

I had never thought of them being linked until I read that article, which I think was an entry for the carnival of aros 'gender' month but has been deleted(?). Though now it has got me wondering about how other people have come to identify as agender, whether they feel there is a link or not. But...maybe I'm just biased in my thoughts because the first time I came out to friends in person there was a flat denial that women could be aromantic.......

Welcome @Oatpunk Being a much (much) smaller community things generally seem more caring and relaxed, though we aren't perfect and things can move very slowly. And yeah, this place does seem like it hosts a fairly large number of people who have had bad interactions with AVEN or other ace organisations/people, myself included, I just hope there is enough balance that we don't ever sway into toxic territory.

I think it is great, and I'm so glad you did something constructive with it 'cause all I did was type stuff and giggle

I love early afternoon showers. I grew up through a few droughts, even living in one house that relied solely on rainwater for a time, so I am very water conscious and shower maybe once or twice a week. The shower might be hot or cold, but the luxury is the timing. I just think there is something so nice about the day around 12-3pm that makes 'me time' extra special.

I used to have this feeling too. I think a lot of the 'missing out' comes from seeing the best parts of other people's relationships without seeing the boring or bad bits. So the internal desire for a relationship isn't even a really realistic one. luckily (I guess?) my messy internalised toxicity and amatonormativity had certain windows of importance in it's own messed up framework, so once I missed the 'teen romance' stage it was fairly easy to drop the whole idea of a romantic relationship and not be worried. That is just what I went through, so depending on what has influenced you you will probably have a very different experience. That probably wasn't that helpful (sorry). Basically I actively choose to identify and blame pervasive amatonormativity for many things that I see as failings or brokenness within myself. For example I read someone's experience of discovering agender because they thought romantic love was part and parcel of being a 'woman' (forgive me, I can't find the article), while I still identify as a woman because I feel that romantic love is a amatonormative filter put onto femaleness.

This is very common! Many people struggle with identifying on the aromantic spectrum. There is a whole label (Cupioromantic) that allows that sidestep of being open to possible romantic future while acknowledging that no attraction has happened (so far). It is a big messy bunch of internal, internalised, and external influences, ideals, and life goals that make it all so complicated. I agree with @aro-fae that greyaromantic is more of a general catch-all term for a vast variety of experiences than the definition you give it. Simply because you don't wish to use Aro is a good enough reason not to use it. Labels are all about identifying with something. If you read about more greyromantic, or even just grey-a experiences, you might feel more comfortable with it, or you may stumble upon a microlabel that you fall in love with (like I did.....and then mostly decide not to use it, like I did!)

I had a friend who was in a very similar situation. She really wanted to have a romantic relationship, it is a life goal for her. She became very active on dating sites for experience. For her it was simply a case of not having much experience in the beginning as she has since found love, even if the relationships didn't last. When you don't have obvious clues (like romance repulsions) working things out can be very hard. Experience is helpful just because it gives you more data to work with. There is nothing wrong with using a label that fits your experience now and then changing to something that fits better when you learn more about yourself and how you experience things. You can choose to use a specific label or a more general one (greyromantic, aspec) depending on what you feel more comfortable using.

There is a term that was coined for those people who lose certain attractions because of trauma. When I learned of the term a few years ago there were at least several people identifying as Caedsexual, I'm unsure how many people might use the label Caedromantic though. I saw some backlash/gatekeeping by a few people about the term, but personally I understand wanting to distance from other labels that might make untrue assumptions about my past. For the people who want to acknowledge an influential trauma I'm glad there is a term, but that doesn't mean everyone with influential trauma has to use it. That being said, it is fairly well acknowledged that some people naturally have shifts in their experiences which would change which labels they best identify with, especially as there are so many MOGAI/microlabels. To me this sounds similar to the experiences Quoiromantics describe, and then there is the associated microlabel Nebularomantic (which I don't think I have ever seen in use, but then I haven't specifically looked). It all really just depends on which labels you feel you identify with. of course all of that is about going specific, which you don't have to do. Being a general term and mostly self defined you can always use Aspec as a label or stick with Aromantic if that is what you feel is the best.

I shall try to help by asking some questions, but please there is no need to answer me, they are just questions to help you think about things from maybe another perspective. if we remove the word romantic from this sentence just to make it more general to understand: it implies you had some sort of extra attraction to your friend before you started dating, is that true? if we leave the word romantic in the sentence: so you still wish to be or are still friends? what made you friends has (not) changed because you dated/broke up? an attraction that waxes and wanes, especially in relation to how a relationship progresses, sounds like litromantic, but if it isn't distinct or identifiable it could be something similar to what quoiromantics or aroflux talk about experiencing as you were generally in a group interaction, did you feel the relationship was defined or at least labelled by your social group rather than you and your partner? (so basically did you feel other people were putting you in a box of expectations?) These sorts of things can sour any sort of relationship if you are sensitive to it. This is not an aro-spec specific thing, 'living up to expectations' or acting within a predefined set of actions is rejected by many people because it can be very stressful. Another big thing (at least for me) that can sour a relationship. You say you started fake saying it fairly early in the relationship because you saw it as an expectation, well could this and other things just have built up and strained the bond you had with your partner? Could your attraction to spend time with that person have slowly been strangled out by the mounting pile of things you didn't like? If it is something like that, well it would indicate a level of aversion or repulsion to certain romantically coded actions or expectations. Orientations are different to repulsions/aversions, sometimes they help people find orientation labels (like in my case) other times they just complicate things because plant themselves like landmines in a field of attractions. Final note: Crushes are generally identified by the experience of limerence, a specific form of love/attraction, and not everyone experiences that anyway regardless of attraction and romantic orientation. Though having no crushes over an extended period of time is generally a fairly good indicator of being aro-spec. Marriage is a false clue, because marriage has much more to do with specific cultural and social expectations (matrimania, singlism and amatonormativity are problems for all sorts of people, not just aro-specs).

The main, and possibly only person, you need to talk to is your boyfriend because they are your partner in the relationship. So don't worry about you parents for the moment. Maybe also commit to checking back here in a week because forum replies can be slow and you shouldn't only listen to my rambling. From what you have said about treating your boyfriend and your brother the same, well it just sounds like you like being close to them and you trust them both. There is nothing bad in that. Though you should talk to your boyfriend about how you do care for him, but you're not sure about what sort of connection you have. If you feel comfortable maybe even say you are questioning your romantic orientation. Questioning can be a tricky and/or long process so no one should be demanding final answers immediately, and that includes you. Be honest about how you feel and keep evaluating how you feel about different situations and you will eventually get more information to work with. Ultimately there is a whole spectrum of labels that represent different experiences people have had and decided they were different enough to need a new label, but only you are the expert of your own experiences. There are many ways to love and many attachment styles, so even romantic love is not one thing. It is possible to love without limerence (that is the phase of romantic love that most romantic movies/tv shows advertise as the true/madly/best representation of love, but which is also a stage of love that generally only lasts a few years)

I don't know if I can be much help but whether or not is a crush might just have to wait until you have more experiences and know more. The physical boundaries stuff should navigate some of that uncertainty, especially if you already know what you personally think of as romantic actions/intentions. Maybe try writing it down, like a list or mind map, to decide where different actions and intentions sit on your understanding of what is friends, what is qpr partners, and what is romantic. Though it might be anxiety, really times have become so unstable and dangerous that I'd be surprised if people's base level of anxiety hadn't risen a few notches at least! Anyway, maybe see what blogs or something you can find that detail experiences about aro-spec peeps in qprs. Knowing how others can navigate being aromantic in a relationship might be of help? (sorry I don't have time to hunt stuff down to give you links right now)

lol. I must just fail at searches. In my defence it has been a long time since I have tried doing a literary review. However I do think there is a place for a martrimania mention on the aro wiki page

YMBAI you cry in "Titanic" when the ship is sinking because you love the nostalgic aura of the ship itself (dare I say the classical romance of the idea of a ship being the mode of transport between places rather than being a casino on the waves?) and human ingenuity and tenaciousness to make a ship that large BY HAND because the Titanic and ships like it are a fundamental acknowledgement of the ability of humans to come together to create something no individual could produce. And that music. That music! Be still my Balto loving heart at 6:15 of 'The Death of the Titanic' track. Then you don't cry when *spoiler* that character dies. But you might just sob a little at the finale because really, if she didn't want the necklace I sure would love to have it.

That is why I tend to watch things with obvious or overt fantasy themes. I just accept the love story as part of the fantasy world full of witches/vampires/werewolves/holographic AI robots. The happy and wholesome relationship with The OneTM is as much a construct as ghosts coming back from the dead. If you have romance repulsions the reality of a relationship can be scarier than the worst horror movie.

I'm wondering about the availability of acceptable sources for amatonormativity, I know we talk about it a lot but I'm having issues finding non-blog sources of info. I am wondering if we can add information about Matrimania (so remove the Amatonormativity subheading in the Difficulties section and just leave it as 'Difficulties') as references for that might bulk up the 'Difficulties' section. We mention Singlism, and it seems Matrimania is generally used in relation to that rather than Amatonormativity.

@Magni doing an aro ring in lotr style is definitely the better option when the other choice in the 'precious' dichotomy is an aro-style version Gollum. What would that even look like? wait, no. I don't want to think about it. The university medical lotr musical spoof was bad enough.