Jedi

So, this has come up before (How is matchmaking for people who want nothing to do with it even a thing? Boggles the mind and yet here we are). I am basically going to give the same advice as in a previous thread:

Have one (1) genuine conversation about it, where you take your friends aside and say something in the line of. "I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you mean well. But the whole shipping thing with [person] is making me really uncomfortable. I hate it. Especially that you go up and lie to him about things I say. That's making everything awkward. I'm not interested in him. Please stop and never do something like this again." Kind of depending on how polite you've been before. If politely means you've gently said 'please don't' then extra clarity might be in order. Just to be sure they know that you are genuinely bothered by this, not just tihi-embarassed.

If they persist after that, that's when you need to be boring about it. Every time they do something, they get one 'not this shit again' and then you disengage from the conversation. Barely even make a facial expression. Become the most boring person in the world to ship. If you suspect that they don't actually mean well, don't care that you are bothered, or think shipping is just too much fun to give up on, they you will probably have to distance yourself from those people.

If these are your friends, I think yes, do let them know. It does sounds like they are annoying you and are completely unaware of it. You don't even need to have a big sit down and go through what aromaticism means if you don't want to. (If you do want to do that, you can pic a specific trusted friend to talk to first, see how it goes) So, for friends who don't know or acquaintances you want to hang out with more, you could start with things like "I don't really get crushes" or "please don't ship me with people, if feels so weird." or "you know what, I don't actually want to date." That will set the expectations. Then you can go into aromanticism and details if you get follow up questions on that.

For people who are acquaintances or strangers where you just want to shut down all the date questions you can just go. "Dating isn't a priority for me" or "I'm not interested in that person." And be boring about it. Being boring shuts nosy people down faster than protesting does.

In my opinion, there isn't a huge need to actively hide being aro, or to pretend that you're not. That just gets complicated. Treat it like it is just one facet of who you are. Your surroundings are likely to follow suite.

Hi, just coming in with questions. I noticed I have a frog, a rank and a certain number of points to next rank. What exactly are points? How do they work? How do I farm them

@HarvestI would go further and say there is nothing wrong with the phrase at all. It doesn't apply to every persons experience but it doesn't have to. It still applies. I don't think it is really necessary to have a slogan that applies equally to every member of a very broad community. As long as any form of homophobia exists, "Love is Love" belongs at pride. It doesn't necessarily mean we're excluded.

Well, I want to say first that what you fantasize about can be wildly different from what you actually want to do irl. So, as far as I am concerned, that says nothing except women have sexual fantasies.

Anyway, have fun with your very scientific tiktok and reality-tv based research into women's sexuality. I'm out. 

27 minutes ago, TruthSeeker said:

But are there any evidence that all the women wanted dick, i.e. felt sexually attracted to the handsome men asking them to meet later?

No, there is in fact, no evidence at all. That's my point, we don't know why the women declined, and there are so many possible explanations you cannot and should not draw any conclusions about their sexuality from it.

Anyway, I think you've gone astray a little bit. Here you are, on an aromantic forum, trying to argue that women are inherently more attracted to women than men. Listen, I don't know. I am asexual aromantic, I don't want to fuck anybody. And if I was at a self-development group and had to do a sensual dance with a stranger, damn right I'd pick another woman. Not because I more attracted to women. I am more visually interested in men, and I don't want to touch anyone sexually or sensually at all. I'd pick a woman because that feels safer. That's some cultural baggage we have, and much more that is still a problem even passed the 60s. What I mean is, maybe all those women were lesbians, it's possible, but there could also be other factors at play. You are doing a fair deal of conflating sexual interest being there at all with willingness to be sexual with someone before real trust has been established.

You've been putting 100s of hours into this. What are you trying to accomplish? In spite of my initial more hostile response (you have a way of speaking about women like we're a hivemind, and that you've figured us out. Don't do that), I want to ask this with empathy. Where are you hoping this will take you?

Thank you for a genuine response. I am asking because this is apparently your first post here, and this is specifically an aromantic forum. Sexuality is on discussion regularly, which is why there is a subforum for it, but nothing of what you are saying here has anything to do with aromanticism. Hence my curiosity.

As to the actual point. Of course, most of those are not the studies themselves, but the news articles discussing them. And two of the articles speak of the same doctor, circling back to the same study, or at least going with that particular mans hypothesis. Let me tell you that I am immediately a little skeptical of any man who goes "men are simple but women are a mystery"

Not to say of course, that there is nothing interesting going on here. It does seem to suggest that women are generally more bi than previously expected. Which is interesting. I would personally put straight women being surprisingly interested in other women in the same category as straight men being very focused on dicks. You know, that's kind of curious.

As for the informal casual sex study, that outcome is utterly unsurprising. Regardless of how much those women actually wanted dick, the changes of getting a yes there was always gonna be extremely low. Women generally just have to be way more wary of strangers, more careful around sex. Risks, both social and physical, didn't simply go away in the 60s.

lol what?

Dude, wtf is your sources for any of this? I mean, sometimes you're referencing a study that I have at least heard of. Some of these studies I have no idea what they are, if they're real. Sometimes you make hard statements about women's experience with no basis on anything. Ticktocks? This one lady on a reality tv show? Made up anecdotes about men in nightclubs?

No hypothesis has been proven anything, you're rambling.

Why did you show up to this particular forum with this thinkpiece? I know I should probably just ignore this, but I can't help but be a little bit curious.

Aromantic enough for who exactly? Pride is great for owning who your are, but that has to be who you actually are. No need to replace the narrow box of societal expectation with an equally narrow bow of the experience of "the perfect aromantic" as if there even was such a thing. But also. You love your friends. I love my friends. That does not make us any less aromantic. We're allowed to have feelings.

Tell them firmly that you do not appreciate this once, every time they bring this up. BUT (and this is important) do so in as boring a manner as you possibly can. A tired "you know I hate it when you do that." or "not this again". You can have an honest conversation about how this makes you feel and how you wish that they wouldn't do it ONE time. If you have already done that, or they persist: boring response every time it comes up. Tired monotone. Just complete killjoy immediately. Then don't engage further in the conversation until the subject changes.

The reason I suggest this is that from my experience, if your friends are sensitive, they will respond to emotional honesty. So one genuine conversation can help. But if they are too hung up about how fun shipping is, then any protests along the lines of "Guys, Stop! It's not LIKE that!" Will likely just put put fuel on the whole thing. You know, they can go in on the getting-the-stiff-one-to-admit-feelings trope. But if the response to bringing this shipping-nonsense up is consistently boring, then I suspect that will suck the oxygen out of this fire pretty quickly.

To me, these are just two sides of the same coin. I am ace the same way I am aro, so to me, feels like both these identities come from the same internal source. In that way I don't feel like I am more of one than the other.

Still, when I found that there was something called 'aromantic' as separate from 'asexual' (generally when people talk about sexuality, the romantic identity is included) I was confused about romantic identity for a bit x) Asexuality was easier to figure out, not wanting to have sex is a pretty straight forward concept. Romantic attraction is harder to define for someone who hasn't felt it. But it is also so that my experience is pretty far removed from an alloromantic ace, so in that way, the aromanticism plays a larger role. But again, internally they are kind of one pool for me.

Yeah, I have the impression that a lot of people come here from AVEN, and then don't stay on AVEN for one reason or another. I poke my head in on both sites from time to time ^^

I think about all the people I have ever heard of that have chosen to live unpartnered, for one reason or another. You can never really know if a historical person or someone you never met was aro or not, but it still adds a sense that this is a valid way to be, and a reasonable way to live ones life, and it makes me feel less alone. To me, looking back like that serves as a reminder that while being partnered was always the most common choice, it has never been the only choice. There has always been a lot of people choosing to do differently. Whether or not it was done for the same reason, it still reminds me that I am not as isolated as all that.

So, I went to a gymnasium (highschool-equivalent) specifically for aspie students and the curriculum was adapted. Me and two other students wanted to be eligible for higher level university educations than we were given with the standard curriculum. One of my teachers actually delayed his retirement specifically to teach the three of us higher level math than the school otherwise offered! He really came through for us and I will always appreciate it.

I figured out asexuality first. Once having sex started being the standard in my agegroup, and I still had no interest in doing that, it was pretty clear that something was different. I found out I was asexual when I found a microlabel that fit. The standard definition of 'no sexual attraction' confused me. At the time I did not know of the separation of sexual and romantic attraction, so I figured asexual just explained all of it.

When learned of aromanticism as something separate, I was confused by what that meant for a while. I realized I was aromantic for sure when I tentatively entered a relationship with a friend of mine I really liked and wanted to feel closer to. And every romantic gesture was like nails on chalkboard. I broke it off and figured that kind of relationship just wasn't for me.

Hello and welcome!

Something you can ask yourself when it comes to fictional characters you have feelings for is this: Do you wish that character existed so you can be with them? Or does that kind of ruin the point? If you feel like you'd actually really want to be with that fictional character, that suggests maybe being allo and either not having met someone you really have chemistry with, or just not being ready to take the romantic feelings into real life. Otherwise, well, sometimes fictional characters serve the purpose of being completely distant, so they're safe in that way. No need to ever worry about anything coming over to you, the real person. I am like that with fiction. I like to fantasize about a lot of things that I would not actually want to happen IRL. And we can absolutely relate to things in fiction that is separate from what we feel in real life. That's part of the purpose of fiction, in my mind. To in some way experience things we would not have experienced normally.

The most distinctly aromantic thing in your list, as I see it, is not about the fictional characters, but the way you feel deeply for this friend of yours but uncomfortable with the idea of it being made romantic. Also, then thing with their being logical people you could have crushes on but you don't, that also sounds like some aro-logic to me x) I am pretty certain that's not how romantic attraction works for allos either, there is no checklist.

Indeed! Just goes to show it is inadvisable to live your life according to stereotypes x)

I always considered valentines day as something that simply doesn't apply to me. It helps both that it isn't such a big deal in my country, mostly just an upswing in heart-shaped candy in stores, and that valentines day focuses on the parts of romantic relationships that I feel almost a vague disgust for x) Sappy and saccharine and hearts everywhere, and societal expectations on top of that. So, there is no envy of couples. But I can't really say I have the single-people's hatred for it either. It is pretty easy to ignore and stand outside of. And if heart shaped chocolate and an excuse to go on a fancy date makes someone happy, then good for them.

On 2/1/2022 at 7:50 PM, roboticanary said:

As an aside, this has really confused me for ages, where I am men are expected to be really terrible at romance, forgetting important dates, being more base in our motives, being worse at dealing with feelings and emotion. But at the same time we are expected to take the lead in romantic relationships, to organise these dates and events, to make most of the romantic gestures in a relationship. From the outside it looks like a system set up to fail.

Ha! You're right. I never thought of it quite like that. I do know the stereotypes that you're talking about, and they have confused me too, on a related point. So, the stereotype is that the girlfriend cares about anniversaries and valentines day, and wants something special on such a day, and the boyfriend either doesn't care, or is bad at remembering, or can't think of something good or whatever. And this always made Valentines Day sound like a source of stress and disappointment to me, even for the people it is for. This thread actually reminded me that, yes, I guess some people genuinely like this day as it is a reason to do something fun with someone you love. I guess it is just rare that I have seen it discussed in a positive way like that.  

On 1/27/2022 at 7:24 PM, roboticanary said:

garlic bread cook badge

Ya'll are in luck because garlic bread is extremely easy to make! Press or grate garlic, put in butter, put butter on bread, put bread in oven at 150 C for ish 10 min. You now have garlic bread! If you don't knock people out with your breath after eating, you didn't use enough garlic.

On 1/27/2022 at 7:24 PM, roboticanary said:

chief aroscouts green award

What does this mean, and what would one do to get it? We do have scouts where I'm from, but I think it works a little differently so I don't know all the lingo x)

I was sick for a while recently and ended up watching a couple of the Disney movies that I had not seen but heard good things about. Big Hero 6, which was ok, and Encanto, which I loved immensely. I have been pretty disillusioned with Disney stuff recently and had thought maybe I just got too old when this showed up. Encanto knows what it wants to convey, goes in for it, does it effectively and with a distinct aesthetic, I loved it.

The last movie I saw in cinema during a lull in the pandemic was the new Dune. I went to see it with my brother, he has read the book, I have not, and we both loved it. Highly recommend. Super cool. I attempted to read the book once, but only got a few pages in, I found it hard to read and confusing. But I think with the context of the movie, showing the events in an easier to understand manner, I could probably go back to the book and have an easier time with it.

This whole issue in the first part centers around the feeling that when someone has romantic feelings for you, they're owed having those feelings returned. They don't. No one does. You can't control who you have or don't have romantic feelings for, no one can. Alloromantics are allowed to turn people down when there are not interested too. Whether this is most people (as in the case of regular allos) or all people (as is the case when you're aro) is not really important. You say you hurt peoples feelings intentionally, but it is no ones fault when one person is in love and the other person isn't. Painful sure, but that's just life. You don't take away someones happiness, you never belonged to them in the first place. Sure, they want something, and they think you can give it to them. But you can't, so that's that.

To me, it sounds like your current view is a bit more balanced than the old one, honestly. It is not wrong to feel a kind of relief when you have established that you are not available for dating. Means everyone is on the same page and can move on from there. If there is a feeling I would be concerned about, it would be the resentment you say you have to alloromantic people now. The person who tried to guilt trip you into a relationship was a piece of shit. They reacted to rejection with immaturity and entitlement and I am sorry you had to deal with that. I don't think it should be pinned on other people who might have an interest in you though. It is not their fault they like you like that. They can't help it any more than you can. So yes, the best thing you can do is offer a polite rejection and wish them well in future endeavors. If you can do this without guilt, that is good! And hopefully, you will still have a friend there once they've had the time to lick their wounds a bit.

That is a nice and positive take. It is really reassuring to see these new narratives about singleness show up.

Haha, yeah I didn't even think to add ebooks to the list! Now that I look at those, it turns out that's where most of my romance-focused books ended up, so it wouldn't make for as relevant of a list. I just looked at the bookshelf and realized I have a lot of no-romance books in there, I think it made for a good visual x)

So, late to this party but I thought about this question, and I ended up sorting my bookshelf into categories by romance level.

I have skipped over some that I have not read, and a bunch which are non-fiction. You may note that my bookcase does not contain an extensive amount of books. A lot of my own books are still at my parents place (they have a large house, and I, a small apartment). Still, with what I have, a fair number of these are actually about aromantic or single characters! I shall go through all of them under a tag (it will be a long list), so anyone curious can determine if any of these would be of interest to you!

That sounds like a pretty major realization! If it is only recent then sit with lesbianism for a while and see how it fits when you're more used to it. One realization at the time here ok? You can safely leave determining if you're aro until after you've had some more opportunity work through this set of new feelings about being a lesbian.